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Riot After Riot Free Speech Host 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM Your views on the heinous barbarity at Godhra and the "retaliatory" rioting and violence in Gujrat. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 1 of 5400 ) From: Aditya V In re: Constitutional, Not Communal Another "See, I told you this was going to happen, now we are all s*****d!!" article. Why does not anyone point a finger at the muslim community that resists every attempt to join the mainstream, has proved to be completely incapable of creating progressive leaders, continues to inflict suffering on itself and the nation that it lives in ? The seige mentality that the community lives in is as much a product of their own paranoia as any external threat created by "hindu fundamentalists". I am appalled at the articles blaming the victims for the crime. I can also see attempts to blame this heinous attack on ISI and external agencies rather than domestic fundamentalists. Rather than lecture and blame real or perceived "Hindu fundamentalists" the media should concentrate on making the muslim community improve their own lot. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 2 of 5400 ) From cynicism Constitutional, Not Communal Not a Hindu-Muslim problem !! Then how do u classify the problem ?? (unless of course u believe that what happened in Godhra wasn't a problem in the first place )... A mob of 2000 can't be bribed or hired by the ISI or the LeT .....They were common citizens of a particular community (now I sound like a secularist ..eh).... Whatever u say Sir, at least here , i support guys like Bal Thackeray.... Hindus have to hit back....It was NOT a law and order problem .....it's a communal problem...Unless u hit back, the perpretrators will think they can get away with anything |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 3 of 5400 ) From Prateek Mishra Constitutional, Not Communal It is just disgraceful that hoodlums like Ashok Singhal and murderous criminals like Bal Thackeray are allowed to do whatever they feel like. As for the Mahant of Ayodhya, he is a despicable human being and piece of excrement. These bastards have created a situation where 60 simple-minded people have been placed in great danger and killed by some lunatics. Until these people are put in their place (VHP, Bajrang Dal,..) we are not going to be able to move forward. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 4 of 5400 ) From ganesh Constitutional, Not Communal Remove the 'secular' hat you are wearing mister. Dont' try to re-define things to suit your requirements. A bunch of muslim fanatics (sorry for the repetition - both mean the same) killed another bunch of hindus to show once again that in India muslims will get away with murder. And what does our 'secular' media do? Call for restraining hindu fanatical forces. Indian media have lost their senses long ago and it is being evident in every instance now. When a prolytesizer Graham Staines is murdered (which was a cowardly act for sure) the whole media gangs up against the word 'hindu' and when more than 50 hindus are murdered in typical islamic way the same media gangs up in support of the muslims. It's all so predictable. This can happen only in India. Keep up the good work my dear dhimmies. The future will never forgive you for this. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 5 of 5400 ) From Narayanan Constitutional, Not Communal Hai, The author of this article sounds more pro-muslim and ant-hindu. First of all we Indiance are waiting for more than 50 years to get our land back for building temple. We can wait for court justics... but how long...(already 50 years have gone!) What did our saints and hindu need is the place which was their's and it is pathetic that owners of the land need to wait more than 50 years and if they claim after a painful wait for 50 years they are called psedo-hindus. This horrible of burning of human beings are nothing but act of terrorism by muslims to wipe out hindu's. God save hindus from terrorist muslims. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 6 of 5400 ) From Hod Kori Constitutional, Not Communal What a joke has Outlook made of itself on publishing an article written by sundeep!! It looks like those innumerable speeches given by the so called secular politicians of the Congress,the left & Mulayam singh yadav!! Also it makes me laugh at the impunity with which a Hindu can treat a tragedy like this which charred to death scores of men,women & children to gain cheap journalistic visibility!! Francois gautier will also join me in laughing at the way the "opinion makers" treat muslim fundamentalism, i repeat "Muslim fundamentalism". No wonder the BJP came to power on the continued appeasement of the Muslims...they will make a strong political comeback again in gujrat or elsewhere based on godhra which will be a testament to the biased view the press takes & teases secular indians like us... Yes, i as an indian very much feel that the BJP,Bajrang Dal,RSS,Shiv Sena are a necessary force to deal with muslim fundamentalism!! will u let me know your kind "secular feelings" about this?? three cheers to "Secular Indian Journalism" hip hip hurray!! Hod P.S:Mr Sundeep please take a look at the charred bodies of women & children(particularly the one where a child & its mother were shown charred in a sitting position!!) Maybe that would give you a great idea on ur next trade against how VHP was responsible for recruiting women for its selfish needs!! |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 7 of 5400 ) From Alok Kumar Constitutional, Not Communal With regard to article 'Constituional, Not Communal', I feel the author is just ranting against nationalist brigade without giving sufficient justification. For the moment, VHP and for the matter karsevaks are not doing anything unconstitutional. He suggests booking the real perperators of this massacre and lo, he hints that real perperators are VHP guys and then he sympathises with Muslims getting insecured and hence the barbarious act!! What about Hindus insecurity? Though I am not a fan of VHP and I think his pompous denunciation against 'righting wrongs' is totally misplaced in this context. The issue he should have concerned himself is that karsevaks were attacked just outside a railway station, which was Muslim dominated and not a single national newspaper/magazine has pointed out in their first reports, though they subsequently amended them. I am totally dismayed by such shoddy and opinionated writings in such a widely read newsmagazine. |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 8 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava ...the question is ARE WE CIVILIZED half just as yet? Constitution for ransom... law and order on ransom... innocent lives on ransom... hai UP governor... the mandate in UP is clear enuff... u can't let the defeated/ rejected admn... IN in a such delicate situation... ... why not a single Bajrangii arrested so far... AaDvaani, VajraPaayee and this stupid bajrangi noongHunna MoNdiN responsible 4 it all... terrorist dahshat gard... assassin idealogy of Gaandhi showing it's true color... man made zalzalla... zalzalla-e-bajrangi... last time it was Lanka... now the whole Buddhadesh... what a pity... what a shame... khisyaani billi khambaa noache... Military "stand-by", Police "stand-by" and stupid Indian Media budgeting-by... taking a bajrangi on top of a Bihari Budget so seriously... and the whole day they kept discussing budget... ha... while the most prosperous state burning... Everybody "stand-by" and build a great nation... whoever said 'mera buddhadesh mahaan" [Rajdeep does the best reporting today... me fav. Beeb-e-Urdu comes next best... and had thought he [Rajdeep, lamp de state] would sit in that bajrangi barbarian lap as Nandi did... still at it...] [and what Shourie doin' in the Press Club that day mourning Dan Pearl... he is a Bajrangi Mantri 4 tathagat's sake... after or before that he is a full time kHaaQii Knickers... whoever said... him a journalist!!! LM Sanghavi/ Suniel Shastri/KC Pant ur ammi/abbu would be ashamed of U's siding with street thugs n blooody bajrangii hoodlums...]... Outlook ur site is down loadz of times for updation... must be turning away a lotta hits... |
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cynicism 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 9 of 5400 ) Whatever the "secular" columnists say, people can see the truth..... A mob of 2000 was not hired or bribed by ISI....They were all indian muslims ...And it might be true that they had been provoked, but what a Reaction !! But that has given the VHP and the likes an excuse to perpetrate the same heinous crime on innocents......Hey , the killers at Godhra were not from Ahmedabad....Why burn Ahmedabad??? IF u have the balls, surround Godhra and let not a single criminal go out alive......Pick out the people known to be communal and just burn them alive.... The impotent indian judiciary RIP .... |
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aryap 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 10 of 5400 ) I can't believe these callous hindus. If they don't learn to stand up for themselves they will be eaten by the aggressive religions. Who is going to carve out an Israel for us, muslims with their uncontrolled population will certainly occupy the majority. hail Gandhi and Nehru for leaving us this mess. Hail Sonia and Mulayam types for nailing the coffin. |
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pradeep 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 11 of 5400 ) What a shame!! An eye for an eye shall leave us all blind not before long. You kill mine and I kill yours and let's all grieve together. And that too in God´s name! For heaven's sake, how can people react the way they react-"..the impunity with which a Hindu can treat a tragedy like this which charred to death scores of men,women & children...". Watch out, this guy is talking about the ones killed in Godhara and doesn't seem to mind much the muslims charred to death...pain doesn't believe in religion, nor does fire...neither does fundamentalism... |
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nanavati 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 12 of 5400 ) I think the rioting in Gujarat has lost th e political dimesion. More or less it has become an soical problem...such acts as said by our spineless leaders is dastardly and should be condemed. Many people has view that such retaliation by an Hindu majority is a sign of strenght and has gone far to compare with isarel is unwarranted. As a Hindu, think that my religion has not become stronger by burining people live... what needs is a restraint and let law take the action against the prepartors of Godhra crime. If this happens without rioting..without looting ..without killing any people will make out society more stronger.. But such riots are just retorgressive for all the social progress that we have made in past few years.... |
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nsb2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 13 of 5400 ) Stereotyping has become a norm in India. People are frequently grouped based on their ethnicity, caste, religion etc. and typecast. It isn't very hard to realize that most responsible for this recent violence have little scope for tolerance. The hatred spewed is perhaps the result of their pent up frustration stemming from ignorance. As delighted as I am with the free nature of discussions on this website I'm disturbed at the views shared by some participants on their hatred for muslims and others who hold beliefs different from theirs. Furthermore, it is appalling that India does not have a platform for debating sensitive issues such as this at an intellectual level. The single conclusion I draw from these observations is that we are unable to address the shameful lack of education. The qualifications for membership in a political party in India are lack of education, ignorance, unemployment, and severely affected IQ. There is no simple solution to the current crisis. Religious extremism irrespective of whether it is hinduism or islam is a bane to our success as a nation. |
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kmahajan 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 14 of 5400 ) It is easy to blame ISI for everything muslim do for our psedu communist. This whole tradgedy would have been avoided if after train incident every secular leader and muslim leaders would have come out and spoken against the Muslim mob who did this. Having a movement for something which most of majority does not feel right about is a right provided to every Indian Citizen by constitution and VHP has right to go and mobilize public opinion for temple if they are not indulging in voilence and are not breaking laws. Why are muslims and psedo secular people so much worried about that they can not have a healthy public debate but let things come to the pass where 54 indian citizens are torched alive. I am not using word hindu because blood is same. Why is so much hatred for any idea which have its root in hinduism which has been our philosphy for centuries. Some examples would be vande Mataram , not airing hindu serials on TV during Congress and so called secular government, Uniform civil code etc. I am sure every psedo secular person instead of going into real reason of violence will blame BJP and so called Hindu parties for its policies but let they be reminded that there have been far less riots in this govt time then earlier. More than politics now this has become a social problem where no body wants to see the truth. Hopefully this incident will give them something to think |
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Kaafir S 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 15 of 5400 ) Ek Ke BAdle Char , Char ke Badle CHalis, 56 ke badle 560., The hindus should retaliate with extreme vengeance and exterminate the vermin with all means available. MULLAH MASJID AUR AZAAN BHEJ KE RAHENGE PAKISTAN |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 16 of 5400 ) From ganesh Mr. Sandeep, I am not convinced by your climb-down (as i see it) from yours yesterday's position of seeming to condone another barbaric islamic act. Anyway, that is not the point. There is no other country that is witness to the fact Islam and barbarity go together and live together. Islam would die without its hallmark of barbarity. The point is that all you media men jump like you are on a spring when one Graham Staines (which murder i equally condemn if not more) is murdered and the same media is mute and does not let a whimper out when 60 hindus are murdered in the most barbaric (islamic) way. How are we to believe you jokers? And why should we not treat you as being on the payroll of islamists? While I am of the opinion that the retaliation is equally inhuman, the fact is that all opposition parties who have not muttered the savage killing of 60 hindus (on the other hand they say that the kar sevaks had it coming - how indecent and how predictable!!!) and are on their toes when muslims started getting killed. And more predictable is the fact that our so 'secular' media has not left any stone unturned to cover it to the full. Do not try to fool the hindus for too long. You may not have seen a volcano in your life. Don't tempt the hindus into showing you one. By the way, your ambition of becoming a muslim will not take long to be fulfilled if you continue this usual p-sec way which so many of your media pals have treaded. Jai Hind! |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 17 of 5400 ) From Sach M I appreciate the point raised by SUNDEEP DOUGAL in "The Revenge Cycle Has To Stop" the law of the land has to take supremacy, irrespective of the religious identity of the guilty. That is precisely the problem. That "law" does not exist. The people do not believe in the courts or the police,"irrespective of the religious identity ". In all the communal mudslinging, does anyone realise that no one on the street expects the law of the land to take its own course.Everyone believes in the amitabh bachan mode of revenge killings. Why? Because the law of the land sleeps in the courts until people like harshad mehta, lakhubhai pathak, pillai etc die before getting any justice. Not "andha qanoon" it is "soota kanoon". A case hanging in the court for 50 years! Surely they are aiming for the guiness book! Why are criminals being elected to parliament? Because you see they just have cases against them, they havent been convicted yet. why were omar sheik and masood azhar never convicted in 6-7 years? KPS Gill says the conviction rate for terrorists was less than 1%, when it ever came to a judgement, surely less than that for police officers who concluded that the only way to do their duty (to protect citizens) was to stage encounters.Do you blame them when the courts fail to separate the blameless from the guilty? The "hindu nationalists" must go and read the arthasastra where it says that the first duty of the ruler is nyaya and danda. If justice is not available from the courts, people like "raju bhaiya", the naxalites etc will step in. The supreme court justices derive their power from the people and from the higher ideal of justice shared by all decent people. Someone ought to file a public interest litigation in the supreme court accusing them of contempt of justice. |
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rjain13 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 18 of 5400 ) Enough is enough, I think. Many of the muslims being killed are innocent, and were probably as aghast as any other Indian at the shocking barbaric killings in the train. I am told they were targetting "hindu fundamentalists" returning from ayodhya. Would those please explain how that included 25 women and 15 children. All this for a derelict, dilapidated, run-down useless structure called babri masjid, which has not been used for 50 years. I have never understood why so called leaders of the muslim community can not "gift" the "birthplace of Ram" to the hindus. Why can't they say, Ok, we will move the masjid next door, and both of us can co-exist. Why is it so hard for them to understand and appreciate the hindu sentiment attached to the place, when they have a similar sentiment for mecca and other muslim holy places. Why do they have to feel so insecure about it? Why is a small compromise so hard? It will save so much bloodshed, as well as generate goodwill. At the sametime, it must be said that there are saner elements in the community who do appreciate this viewpoint. For those who vehementally feel otherwise, and idolize osama ilk, please go to pak or s.arabia. |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 19 of 5400 ) the riots going on right now in gujarat are not communal but "class riots"......u see....a population of one billion....with all the wealth cocentrated with the top 10%.....post liberalisation phase has accentuated this wealth disparity....moreover its not only the wealth but the culture too has polarised.....with the neo rich and neo modern aping the west and mocking and looking down upon the 'laggards'.....the smarting lower class has only one weapon in there hands to feel effective and important ie.religion.....whenever a leader-self proclaimed protecter of religion-whips the communal sentiments,this laggard class finds an outlet for their pent up frustration and they do it either by "kar seva" or rioting.... this is a direct result of government's failure..they failed to bring about an equitable distribution of development....the politicians and beaurocrats were busy filling there own coffers...all plans and schemes remained on papers...no strict measures for population control..no proper education...no old age security..etc.etc.......the ayodhya and kashmir issues are the lollipops every government gives to the public so that they dont look into the gross misgovernance....communal tension is the direct fallout of it.....the tensions with pakistan and its exaggeration has led to all muslims being seen as antinationals..and the indo pak issue has become a hindu- muslim issue. So now the riots shall not surprize anyone....the saffron brigade got thriving gounds for their malicious agenda...they didnt have to work hard to convince hindus about the atrocities they suffered at the hands of muslims during medieval period...so did the mullahs who as a reaction easily convinced the illeterate and obstinate muslim masses about their relative deprivation and victimisation........ if the people are educated and prosperous,they never let these rightists poison their brains....see what happened to george haider in austria. ...gujarat is the forerunner in the industrial development and concommitantly has huge class disparities..moreover,the majority of hindus there are jain-baniyas who are always eager to display their hindu credentials and thus are easily used by the shrewd brahmins of the saffron brigade...same is the case with the lower class population there who largely consist of SC/ST/OBC................MAY THE ALMIGHTY SAVE THE NATION FROM THESE HAWKS......we cant afford this violance at the time we are dreaming for elevating from the status of a third world country |
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ramki 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 20 of 5400 ) See, one important thing to note here is that when it comes to minority-majority issue, everything from the law of the land are called into question. I think it is the Muslim community which is to be blamed. Why have they not yet come up with a leadership that is able to stand up and say that they do not need a separate law that keeps them apart from the other citizens? Being special would be great for everybody. Why, a few years back, Hindus were faced with a revolt from within by the oppressed classes. Brahmins gave in then and, to a good extent at least, gave up the privileges they had been enjoying for millenia. In fact, the first entry of Dalits into Madurai temple was led by a Brahmin! I am told Muslims do not feel secure in India. I think it is just wanton childishness that asks to be appeased. And sure, the entire system, including most regretably, the BJP have been obsequious. The only solution to this problem would be for the Muslims to come up with a leadership that is forward looking. As long there is a CM in India who cannot say abt unregistered madarassas what Parvez Musharraf could, there will be tension. And Muslims have only themselves to blame. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 21 of 5400 ) Stop this blame game. What is most important is that in a civilized society, it is not the mob that rules, but a democratically elected Government. By not reacting swiftly to the carnage in Godhra, by not initiating a massive deployment of police and security forces in Gujarat after the tragedy, the BJP Governments of Gujarat and India have let a lumpen mob take over the state and cause terror and mayhem. In doing that they have tarnished the good image of India and of the vast majority of law-abiding peaceful citizens there. That is, the so-called nationalists are actually ours and India's biggest enemies. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 22 of 5400 ) From Ninad Constitutional, Not Communal It is because of cowards and pseudosecular writers like you ,we are being burned alive in our own country.you are intectualising your servility and stupidness. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 23 of 5400 ) From anil Constitutional, Not Communal I am sorry to say that you article fails to appreciate that about 60 people who were trrvelling in train were killed. Most important thing is to give justice by involving law to arrest who did these heinous crime. India is democratic & secular therefore no one should allow to attack in this wicked way. ayodhya , commual , politics & constitution all exist in India. We should be dealing with events not with speculation |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 24 of 5400 ) From Sohail I am a muslim but I wish I was a hindu to prove that my patriotism to my country is as strong as any damn citizen of this country. Tears are rolling down my cheeks as I write this because it is so bloody unfortunate that I have no one to turn to except to the very few people like you who perhaps will understand how I feel. I am sure there are many muslims in this country who feel the same. I have only love for my hindu brothers - I simply cannot do otherwise... but when there is no one to take up the cause of the brutalized minority then as you have rightly mentioned - people are driven to the wall and the cycle of violence continues. Where is Geetanjali? Where is Ishwar Allah tero naam.... Where is my India? I ask you because people like you must become aggressive without being violent not only to save this country but to progress into the future. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 25 of 5400 ) Dear Sohail, Thanks for your wonderful message. I am sure that the majority of Indians Hindus, Muslims, Christians and of other faiths feel no animosity towards each other and like to live in peace. It is unfortunate that our Government lets an aggressive minority, the lumpen elements of the society hijack the entire country into a tragic and violent confrontation. We as Indians, must all stand up and fight this evil. To start with, may I suggest that all of you send the following message to the Prime Minister of India: Quote: Dear Prime Minister, As citizens of India, we are anguished and saddened by the senseless violence enveloping our country. The centuries old civilization of India and its great secular traditions are being besieged by criminal, lumpen elements in the name of religion. It is your responsibility, as the Prime Minister to immediately take all steps to prevent this madness from spreading further and stop the killing of innocent people Unquote: To send the message please go to: http://pmindia.nic.in/writetous.htm Thanks |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 26 of 5400 ) Message to Prime Minister: May I suggest that all of you send the following message to the Prime Minister of India: Quote: Dear Prime Minister, As citizens of India, we are anguished and saddened by the senseless violence enveloping our country. The centuries old civilization of India and its great secular traditions are being besieged by criminal, lumpen elements in the name of religion. It is your responsibility, as the Prime Minister to immediately take all steps to prevent this madness from spreading further and stop the killing of innocent people Unquote: To send the message please go to: http://pmindia.nic.in/writetous.htm Thanks |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 27 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava ...All Bajrangi resign from seat of power NOW... 4 they are thoroughly exposed... these fascist are desperate and capable of thousand times more dangerous than any Hitler or Pol Pot be... get rid of these baboons ASAP... Jetley and Modi still trying 2 put a brave face... such shameless ugly disgusting bajrangiiz... what a bajrangii Budget!!! Billions worth property destroyed... bandar ke haath meiN ust'araa... whoever thought these buffoons could (MIS)rule 4 lumpent they sure and pretty evident at that... Chandan Chaaloo Ex-Communist who sold his soul to the devil [somebody tell him boobtoob is not his cuppa T and MJ Akbar's [he should better stick2Print though 4 he is not cut out 4 that] show on ZeeNews was poor... best coverage was on NDTV... Land and legality By AG Noorani Frontline The award of any part of the land adjoining the site of the Babri Masjid to a Vishwa Hindu Parishad-controlled body will amount to flouting the Supreme Court's clear ruling on the matter. By A. G. NOORANI, Frontline |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 28 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Death Toll in India Strife at 246 : By HARISH DESAI, Associated Press Writer India's leaders aren't very often funny : Shashi Tharoor in IHT Land and legality By AG Noorani Frontline The award of any part of the land adjoining the site of the Babri Masjid to a Vishwa Hindu Parishad-controlled body will amount to flouting the Supreme Court's clear ruling on the matter. By A. G. NOORANI, Frontline The real agenda on test : The conflicting signals from the Sangh Parivar on the Ayodhya issue point to a deliberate design to blunt the opposition from within the ruling coalition to its agenda. By V.VENKATESAN in Frontline India braced for anarchy after fatal train attack By Catherine Philp, Times' South Asia Correspondent Rampaging Hindus burn Muslim children alive : Army called out to restore order amid fears that contested holy site of Ayodhya will again fuel cycle of sectarian attacks By Nick Meo in Delhi 4 the Independent India's dangerous flames Q&A: The Ayodhya dispute : BBC Danger of Nuclear Exchange in South Asia Greater Than Ever Before, Says Former Chief of the Indian Navy Nuclear-Armed India and Pakistan Must De-Escalate Military Buildup, Work Toward Disarmament Institute for Energy and Environmental Research An explosive account : At times hard to read, `A History of Bombing' tells us not only of the tools of warfare and their use in history, but the darkness at the heart of nations bent on using them By Bradley Winterton, Taipei Times CONTRIBUTING REPORTER |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 29 of 5400 ) WHAT THE HECK IS THIS GOING ON!!!! My soul is crying.........i have been a pious muslim....my head has dropped with shame after the godhra incident...why the muslims of india want to stand upto their "barbaric" islamic image??...why to fight over a fuckin` dilapidated structure called `babri masjid'???.....cant u find any other peaceful place to offer namaz??.....i have been to hajj..there people offer namaz even on roads in the middle of desert....ALLAH is present everywhere...he will listen to u even if u offer namaz while shitting in the laterine....why to fight for a land where some so called muslim ruler demolished a temple some 700 years back and constructed a mosque....and where no namaz has been done for the last 50 years or so...WHY?...WHY?.....WHY? C`MON MAN!!....we have so many good artisans in our community...why dont contribute in the construction of the RAM MANDIR in ayodhya?...we can carve out good designs on makrana marble pillars of the mandir...the mandir will stand as the pride of india just like taj mahal....we will have many foreign tourists there which would salvage our diminishing foreign exchange reserves....in fact the muslims shall participate in the car seva itself......at least they shall go to the railway station and serve the car sevaks with refreshments...this nation of one billion can afford no riots at this juncture of time...we have to compete with the U.S. and the unified EUROPE in this era of globalisation...let alone the eternal conflict with that mother fucker pakistan......just cant afford this internal fighting now. And now for the government......why the hell cant you censor the TV channels like "STAR NEWS" and "AAJ TAK"??...they are constantly presenting the gory details of gujarat to the rest of the nation and thereby increasing the chances of spreading of the riots to the other parts...if u can block BBC then why not these channels?....just b`coz they are domestic???.....PLZ...PLZ....PLZ.... |
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shastry 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 30 of 5400 ) I think it's high time now that we make these muslims believe that they cannot dictate terms at the cost of Hindus.We all very well know that partition of India was purely based on religion. And I am really proud of all my muslim brothers who stayed back in India. They enjoy lot of freedom here than in Pakisthan. Thanks to our ugly politicians that they can even openly badmouth Hindus and Hinduism. The situation has come to a position where Hindus are being critised if they talk about Hinduism . But on the contrary if a muslim freely expresses his religion of faith or badmouth Hinduism , he won't be critised. Even these ugly politicians and insane media as redifined word Secularism. Secularism now means you can badmouth Hinduism and praise those muslims who badmouth it. What a pity? Why cannot these muslims understand that they can never confront with Hindus in India. Why cannot they understand the feelings of their fellow Hindus? Why cannot they understand and agree with the Hindus that there should be Ram temple there? Muslims have Mecca. For Hindus , Ayodhya is as important as Mecca to Muslims. It's supposedly a birth place of Lord Ram. Why cannot they just think good and reach some agreement with Hindus? Muslims cannot really confront Hindus in India. They were just fortunate that Hindus are more resilient, more understanding that they are not doing any harm to them. But believe me if you test the patience of 80% population of Hindus, then muslims have to be reminded of another Bosnia in India!! I am proud of Islam. I am proud of my Muslim brothers. But it's not the way to behave with Hindus in India. Everybody knows that it's the Muslim commnunity that started commnunal flare up in Gujarat. I am sad that many muslims were now being killed because of retaliation from Hindus. Why cannot Muslims be practical? You don't have political power in India. You don't have financial power in India. That means you really cannot do anything in India. It's only our good sense that allowed you to live freely all these 50 years. Still you want to be ignorant with the belief that you can do anything you want?!! Wake up! India has real good problems to tackle, not these communal tensions. India has to tackle the problems of illiteracy, corruption, over population. So, let's all unite and face these changes. Muslims really has the chance now to show that they can also contribute good to our country by resolving this issue of Mandir-Masjid. Already you are facing crisis now that your religion is being equalled with terrorism at the international level. So, it's a kind of last oppurtunity for muslims to show that their religion is really a good religion. Otherwise it will become a lost oppurtunity for them |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 31 of 5400 ) A horrible crime was perpetrated at Godhra. How can we bring the trouble makers to justice? THE VHP way: the rule of the mob, billions of rupees worth of property destroyed, innocent muslim citizens killed in the 100. Gujarat set back 5 years in prosperity. Wonderful, wonderful, this must be beginning of Ram Rajya itself. THE CIVILIZED WAY: catch the perpetrators, make the case and jail them. Hang the ring-leaders. Keep up the good work VHP. Ashok Singal, you fascist dung-pile, you are my hero. Destroy all of India. Turn it into another Yugoslavia. Build your mandir. Build one mandir for every indian child who cannot read and write, build another for all the people killed through your attitudes. As for you fools screaming about hindu anger: please explain to me what is the difference between Mullah Omar of the Taliban and distinguished shit-pile called the Mahant of Ayodhya? Don't you understand that you are being fooled? If you dont, you must be even more stupid than I imagined you were. |
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G. Dhill 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 32 of 5400 ) Dear Mr. Prime Minister I am a proud Indian living abroad. Today I feel hurt and ashamed because of what happened in Gujrat and other states in last two days. It is 21st century and us Indians should stop these barberic acts of violance and stand tall againt any ethnic cleansing. It is shamefull that political leaders/parties are using hurendous methods to achieve their own political agenda of being in power and rule the poor indians with hook and crook methods. Mr. Prime Minister I have admired you as a straight forword politican and a person with clear vision. Today I am asking this question that what is holding you back from curbing all the criminal elements. It does not matter what relgion they belong to or what is their cast. They are all criminals and they should be brought to justice under Indian laws. Since independence we have only talked about reforms and progress for the country but no action. India is not only for rich people but also it belongs to all the poor. India should not be highjacked by religious and political leaders. Today's India is considered socialy unsafe and politically unstable by all the foreigners. Educated brains and telant is draining out of the country. It is not because life is better in foreign countries but it is our own country's uncertain and unpredictable present & future Mr. Prime Minister you are very wise and honest man and your name is going to go into history books as Prime minister of India. I ask you to lead the country with passion, dignity, secularism and without any pressure from peers and anybody else. Today the situation is valurnable and sensitive that you need to step up and take charge being the leader and head of the family called India. It is one life to live , Be my hero and everybody else's hero as well who love India, our motherland. Long Live India and God Bless All Indians. Peace, Peace....... |
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ya 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 33 of 5400 ) What a paradox indeed. A nation which prides itself in an ancient religion and culture, which once was at the zenith of its brilliance in art, sciences, literature, religious tolerance and philosophy, now harbours and breeds a political culture of deceit, dishonesty and religious fascism. A ‘family’ of political parties which glorifies the Third Reich and which is instrumental in generating and festering a permanent wound in a society between the two communities, Hindus and Muslims, who interestingly enough has long historical evidence of living peacefully for ages. Manipulating an entire nations soft corner for pious belief of the majority Hindus to a clever and shrewd way of channeling it into hatred, provocation and intimidation against the Muslims and to a smaller extent the Christians . Riot after riot, swinging the nation from one gruesome and horrific scene of medieval barbarity to another, no other group of leadership, political or otherwise is more singularly accountable and responsible for breaking the beautiful fabric of Indian communities and the respect that India had earned in the international community for it. The title of this message board asks what can be done to stop the clashes, the answer is as clear as a crystal. The answer is with the people of India. The people of India will have to be stunned out of this opium influence and stand up and refuse to fall a prey to this hatred. |
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nvedwan 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 34 of 5400 ) I am glad that Anita Pratap is writing about issues about which she may have greater knowledge arising primarily from immersion in the milieu. Considering her status as an eminent socialite she is much better qualified to write about (supposedly) increasing incidence of homosexuality, wife-swapping and sundry other practices than about issues like social relations, foreign policy of which she clearly has not much understanding. Experience does make all the difference- contrast her perfunctory, pompous and wrong take on Indo-Pak problems earlier with her more lively and realistic treatment of increasing "diversity" and "choice" in the cultural-lifestyle domain. I would advise her to devote herself fulltime to writing about lifestyle issues and leave discussion of more important/fundamental to others; this will definitely spare the readers much avoidable torment as well as be good use of her first-hand experience. |
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aryap 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 35 of 5400 ) Intellects can't fight, they write, but they can't capture common man's apathy. Peace only comes through strength, America proves it again and again to the world. Yet the intellects can't comprehend. you cannot opress the majority and expect a peaceful coexistence. Whoever the minority is needs to fall in line. India is exactly the opposite, and hindus don't have the guts to defend themselves. Now that they are developing a spine, the media is intent on portraying it negatively. Slogan shouting is not a crime. not enough to be burned for. I live in the middle of a muslim neighbouhood. Many Indian muslims long for pakistan and view India with suspicions. Rather than cater to their unsecurity, we should focus on the majority and if our country is successful, they will surely come along. Having another partition now, does not seem realistic. but stranger things have happened. |
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Shahin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 36 of 5400 ) This is one of the most horrific crimes that has ever happened in the history of independent India. All the muslims in India should be ashamed of themselves because of the 2000 or so inhumane hooligans. This horrific cycle of violence has to stop. All these are taking our country back by atleast a few years and paints a very bad picture in the International arena. I think we Muslims should give the land in Ayodhya to the Hindus so that they can build the temple. As far as we are concerned that place is of no hostoric or religious importance and more over there is no strucutre what so ever left, thanks to the concerted effor of VHP, RSS and Bajrangdal. Also muslims in india has to think whether it is wise to have 100s of other mosques beong destroyed every time a problem occurs, just because we refuse to hand over the land to them. I am fully aware of the fact that VHP or for that matter any Hindu organizations are not able to table any evidence to show that the mosque was built on top of the ruins of a temple. But as Prem Shankhar Jha put it religious feeings cannot be controlled by evidence. So this place Ayodhay is very important to Hindus as they consider it as the birth place of Ram. So lets just give it to them, on the assurance that they wont come and claim other places of worship. I think all the muslims in india should start debate about this. Also i hereby appeal to all the Muslims in india who happens to read this to condemn this henious act as a crime against humanity. Also think who is most affected of the furious outcomes. Hundreds of innocents, of course some trouble makers also, are being killed every day for no fault of theirs. Indian muslims, men, women and children, should be acting in the best interest of our country and shouldnt be acting as pawns in the hands of illiterate mullahs, politicians or outside elements who wants to forment trouble in our country. In the mean while i appeal to all Hindus to try their level best to stop this violence before it spreads to other parts of our country. I am not seeing any of the religious leaders who had been eager to meet and declare jihad against america when they decided to go for war in Afghanistan, coming out and condemning this henious act. Listen up mulims, the biggest problem we are facing now is illiteracy and poverty not the building of mosques. So wake up and fight against this social injustice that has affected our community like cancer and try to get out of that and be in the mainstream and help lead the country forward... |
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Yantric 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 37 of 5400 ) I can't take Hindu apologists any more. Babri Masjid was one damned mosque among thousands in India. If muslims are ready to burn 60 people for the razed structure- where will they stop. Mosques are razed every month in Saudi Arabia even for expanding poultry farm of a Shaikh. Why don't all the muslims and hindu apologists go and fight against the mosques being razed in Saudi Arabia. It is very important for Indians to realize and rethink the entire Hindu Muslim equation. We have to expect a higher and civilized behaviour from Muslims or they should be held accountable for their intolerance and hatred towards anything non islamic. Time to raise ourselves from self pity and self loathing and examine out identity. It seems we achieved freedom from British but in a lot of ways we have to achieve it from the Muslims. |
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Duryodhn 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 38 of 5400 ) Sandeep Dougal, For your ilks Hindus are just commodities to be squished. Why was Graham Staines' Muder Communal and Organized and Killing of 58 Hindus just a constitutional problem.Dare to accept the facts. People like you make moderates like me to support hardliners. And thats what has caused this madness and not some fringe elements, it is the orchestrated bigotry by media in obfuscating issues affecting Hindus and their way of Life. Kuru Duryodhan |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 39 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Centre delayed deployment of paramilitary forces By RAJAT PANDIT : TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ SATURDAY, MARCH 02, 2002 1:05:01 AM ] ...[TOI seem the best coverage in Print... what a tribute 2 Gaandhi... Golden Jubilee of India's independence and the state he fought so hard and so long 4... been handed/ allowed to his assassins... and now his home state by run by and taken over by an ugly monstrous mob... of which Vajpayee is the captain... ugly incompetent bajrangii and now this state sponsored massacres... and every jaahil mallich bhaiNs thought he could be a good leader... change blah blah... r responsible for this bloodshed... Now ABV sound miniscule bajrangii Pol Pot... ] ...tathagat curses same fate 2 u and ur families... why always the commoners suffer... let there be revenge if there has to be... and burn these unfucking villains... people who instigate such hatred... this pretty women Sonali Verma is not fit to do Urdu News... NDTV why such a quality conscious organisation... she is sounds more rustic than Modi and makes me puke with her wrong u'chchaaran/ Talla'ffuzz... she is fine in Angla Bhaasha] check more TOI reports : more Army not possible: Method behind Centre¿s laxity? : Has VHP fallen into ISI trap? : Jaffri fired on mob, defends Narendra Modi : NHRC issues notice to Gujarat govt. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 40 of 5400 ) Shahin, I really appreciate your thoughts. But we should forget about the whole religion thing in these modern times. Moreso for the development of the country and betterment of our own lives! The govt. should ban VHP and it's likes. Being a Hindu, I feel that these so called Hindu hardliners (VHP, bajrang dal, etc) are ANTI-Hindu parties. Their brains (I don't think they have any) have gone berserk and all they do is instigate mob fury. Muslims should also give up their fanaticism and live in reality rather than a fantasy world of religion! Communal harmony is the MAIN SOLUTION to all evils that plague India |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 41 of 5400 ) I 2nd ur opinion on this pmishra! VHP needs to be banned along with it's likes of brainless fanatic organisations |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 42 of 5400 ) Shahin is correct and the solution he provides for ayodhya is correct. his appeal to the muslims is also correct. muslims should discourage their separatist mentality. they should accept their hindu past. accept religion as an individual choice and move on. any further mischief and paksitani mentality will lead to chaos. ayodhya is important to the muslims. mosques were built there to insult the hindus. these structures should be moved for communal harmony. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 43 of 5400 ) correction - ayodhya is important to the hindus not muslims. anyway shahin is a true indian that both hindus and muslims should emulate. i congratulate him for showing the right way for all indians. islmaic fanaticism is encouraging a hindu backlash. this will ruin the country and cause great harm. a series of steps should be taken. the main congress party is the real culprit and should stop misleading the muslim masses and creating a sense of insecurity for them by unfounded fear tactics. the communsit parties in india should be banned forthwith. these two parties are responsible for most of the trouble. a common civil code will go along way in encouraging secularism. pakistani mentality should be completely discouraged. a final solution willbe the destruction of the pakistani state and reintegration of pakistan into an indocentric region. a separate country but not a threatening neighbor. this is the key to peace in the region. |
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AMReddy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 44 of 5400 ) What has happened and is happening is barabaric? Human life is precious. If in the 3rd millennium human beings in India (despite India's hoary culture and heritage)can't be guaranteed the right to life -- then the Indian state is on the point of utter failure. It does'nt matter whether Pakistan collpses or not -- of which there are some keen and irrelevant predictions. That is not the heart of the matter. The central point is "will India be a modern state which guarantees basic rights to its people?" There are quite few who are wasting time taking sides on should be condemned -- Muslims or Hindus. What does the Indian state as a collective entity want. Does it want to be a modern nation? Does it want be a strong economy? Does it want its people to be enabled -- through healthcare, education and employment? If it does, then the matters relating to religion and history have to be given a backseat. The priority has to be on development and effective enforcement of law and developmental programs. Not on religion, culture and history. Is it difficult to ask and give ourselves a modern leadership and government? |
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Lakkaji 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 45 of 5400 ) Well..as usual Hindus are always to be blamed for any damn trouble that happens between religions. I havent read one single news item which traces for FACTS and FIGURES of who started this whole burning the karsevaks by locking them up in a train. While there is NO ONE blaming the muslims who burnt whole karsevaks in a compartment alive by locking them up, the obvious reaction of the Hindus, who lost their family, friends and valuables are considered to be the "Traitors" of the country!!! Well, my dear Indian Intelligentia...please hold your Hindu bashing till you find out who the real culprits are. Who started it all is still a mystery. Even if the Karsevaks did shout "Jai Shri Ram" in the railway station, what muslims did in retaliation has no justification!! DO ANY....ANY SANE INDIAN POLITICIAN DARE TO TOUCH A MUSLIM? CAN A MUSLIM BE EVER BLAMED FOR THIS KIND OF REACTION? Think over it my dear friends.... Jai Hind |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 46 of 5400 ) luwmann, oops, you left your brains behind at home when you came to work. We have islamic terrorists and the VHP people kill 100's of innocent individuals. And what are you talking about -- the communist party? Hello! please wake up and come to grips with reality. Have you read the Ramcharita Manas? Have you any knowledge of hindu religion? Is any temple to Ram in Ayodhya mentioned in any scripture? Or do you get all your information from the brainless lunatics in the VHP? Hindu religion is quite different from islam (big surprise to you no doubt). We dont all these crazy mecca/jerusalem hangups like some others. Every hindu can have a temple at home. Hindus believe god is within the every human. Every individual is to strive to become like Rama. What does building some silly mandir someplace have to do with our traditions? Isn't the VHP just imitating jews/christians/islam? What a pathetic thing to do! |
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hhhggg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 47 of 5400 ) Look at CNN's bias, they are telling Hindus went and massacred muslims. The fact is Muslim fanatics started the killing of Ram sevaks...and everyone knows this. The whole western media, as always been indulging in Hindu bashing and pro-muslim bias. If there was no retaliation, by Hindus, that will be death to Hindus (Hinduism) |
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VBT 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 48 of 5400 ) Who are these People? I would like to see their faces how one can become so inhuman. Well there is no explanation for the behaviour of mob mentatlity, but is it such a bad and insane mentality that one has to kill their own neighbours, children and women. Sometimes I just wish a big tsunami comes and wipe out and cleanse India and when everthing is over, there will be rebirth of the nation which will be forefront in all fields, the country that can atleast provide the basic neccesities to the people. Who has the proof that Ram was born at ayodhya?. By constructing the temple at ayodhya will it cleanse the nation and its people and make them the greatest nation on the earth. India wants a bold PM who can convert the disputed land at ayodhya into a national monument for all the solidiers and freedom fighters who had died for the cause of the nation and make VHP, bajarang DAL and other muslim fanatical organizations etc work for the uplifitment of the masses and not to kill each other |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 49 of 5400 ) Hey hhhggg, u talk of wester media's bias. Now the VHP & Co. issues all kinda threats about ayodhya, theyy vandalise shops and shopping malls on valentine's day... now tell me who's going to have a soft corneer for them? Serves them right buffoons. Now bcoz of them, India is crumpling like a pack of cards |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 50 of 5400 ) From Ali Khan The Revenge Cycle Has To Stop India will never become a super power if Hindus-Muslims are at each other throats.In land of Gandhi,the Gujrat State has become a Hindu Taliban State with all the NRI Patels money flowing to bring more miseries.China and Pakistan must be laughing at us as a Secular India with Muslim made a scape goat whenever Hindus BJP& VHP loses an election.Long Live World Sickest Democracy. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 51 of 5400 ) From Professor Mohhammed Ansari Godra incident is a shame for all Indians living abroad. Although we shouldn't be surprised with such outcomes of VHP-RSS-BJP joint efforts to ignite the old disputes for temporary gains. We should seek longterm solution to such problems. Only way we can bring lasting peace in our back-yard, and shine our image in the world is by working for understanding, justice and tolerance. We Indians get angry so fast. We have very little patience and tolerance. We need to learn to respect LAW. If we want to progress as a great nation we need to learn something from West; i.e. how to develop tolerance. Our politicians are mostly responsible for this. They don't let common people who struggle everyday for livelyhood, to forget their petty, silly differences. When an elected Prime Minister of a country tells masses that a particular community is dispensable what can we expect? Such an environment makes it impossible for social workers and interfaith groups to bring unity. I hope all the secular forces will unite and stand together to diffuse the crisis. I hope one day the flame of hate and anger will die. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 52 of 5400 ) From Professor Mohhammed Ansari Godra incident is a shame for all Indians living abroad. Although we shouldn't be surprised with such outcomes of VHP-RSS-BJP joint efforts to ignite the old disputes for temporary gains. We should seek longterm solution to such problems. Only way we can bring lasting peace in our back-yard, and shine our image in the world is by working for understanding, justice and tolerance. We Indians get angry so fast. We have very little patience and tolerance. We need to learn to respect LAW. If we want to progress as a great nation we need to learn something from West; i.e. how to develop tolerance. Our politicians are mostly responsible for this. They don't let common people who struggle everyday for livelyhood, to forget their petty, silly differences. When an elected Prime Minister of a country tells masses that a particular community is dispensable what can we expect? Such an environment makes it impossible for social workers and interfaith groups to bring unity. I hope all the secular forces will unite and stand together to diffuse the crisis. I hope one day the flame of hate and anger will die. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 53 of 5400 ) From Vishal Agarwal The Revenge Cycle Has To Stop Two years ago, I engaged you in a discussion on the Eurocentric racist Indology List (Liverpool) over the nepotism and dishonesty of 'Eminent Historians'. I thought then, that you were just a misguided admirer of Thapars and other Marxists, and nothing more. Now, after reading your articles, I think that you are one of those psecs who wish they were not Hindu. Witness how any criticism of the Godhra carnage of Hindus, (the incident being reminiscent of how Hindus/Sikhs were killed by Muslims in trains in Pakistan in 1947) is hedged by references to perceived excesses of Hindu organizations, or by undisguised insinuations that 'they had it coming, so why blame the muslims, look at the larger picture' and so on. Apparently, Hindu lives are cheap, and only Islamic terrorists, Islamic mobsters and smugglers and all non-Hindus (including missionaries indulging in illegal activities) have human rights. No such hedging statements were forthcoming when a dubious missionary with a questionable record (and who carried and unlicensed revolver to start with) was burnt alive with his children by yet unidentified people (since the court verdict is yet to be delivered). All the blame was immediately placed on parties or organizations associated with Hinduism. I suggest you bleach your hair blonde, wear blue contact lenses and also douse your skin with hydrogen peroxide if you are so self-hating. At least that will remove your mental stigma that you are not a Hindu. The innocent Hindu pilgrims who were killed in a pre-mediated Jihadi attack (and it is yet unknown if they were really karsewaks) deserves unequivocal condemnation, no hedging please. If my protest makes me a 'thekedar' of Hinduism, so be it, at least I am not a hater of Hindus and Hinduism who do not wink an eyelid when Hindus are killed. I am not one of those idiots who suffer from a mental disease called 'secularism'. I wish Teesta Setalvad wears a sari, mangalsutra and a bindi and walks in the streets of Lahore or even Srinagar before gloating over the massacre of Hindus. And now I sincerely pray that they discus of Vishnu smashes your Hinduism hating 'secular' head. You and your Hindu hating ilk are the reason (greater than the Jihadi and Islamic terrorists) why Hindus die day after day. The blood of my brothers and sisters is on your head and I advise you to get out of the religion which you were born in and become a muslim, rather than just hoping that you were a muslim. I for one, pray to God that I am born a Hindu in all my future lives. You idiots do not talk of the 'bigger picture' when Muslims or white missionaries are killed. It seems to be all the fault of Hindus. Rather than pontificate over how bad Hindus are or why Muslims at Godhra slaughtered kafirs at Godhra, just stop hating Sanghis first. Your hatred for Sanghis has clouded your judgement and has transformed you into a beast who rationalizes the worst crimes against humanity just because the victims happen to be Hindus or might have something to do with the Sangh Parivar. Shame on you, get out of Hinduism please. You hate us Hindus, you have killed us again and again, you are a murderer of Hindu children and women. It is not rampaging muslim mobs, but people like you who rape Hindu women everyday in Bangladesh and Pakistan. I really pray to Lord Vishnu that he helps us in upholding truth and grant some wisdom to 'secularists'. Do not preach to us whether we should take revenge o not. Preach that to Muslims, and again, please apostate publicly fom Hinduism. We do not need scum like you in our Dharma. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 54 of 5400 ) From naren parikh The Revenge Cycle Has To Stop read your artical....once again people like you are closing eyes to the inherent problems with muslims that they cannot live with any other non muslim...kafirs....i agree with you that tit for tat is not good, however you must agree that barbaric act should not have been committed by ...the other community............muslims to me....you guys have to call a spade a spade and not indulge in this mumbojumbo, ...evevn a monkey would laugh at it...i am very angry with you guys so called opinion makers...puseodo secularists..people like you are turning us towards taking a strong stand for my faith, philosophy and culture............. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 55 of 5400 ) From Col. Ali M. Khajawall MD., ABFM Message to Innocent Masses. Let sense and sanity previal. Mould anger, hostilty, and revenge into compassion, compromise, and humane character. Forget Cruelity and remember Humanity. Any loss of life, limb, and livelihood is bad and unfrurtunate for for anybody and everybody. Insanity hurts all, it spares nobody including Nations and their national interests and character. Trauma, tragedy, and terror has no place in this 21st., century. This is the century of peace, purpose, and global progress. Let no body suffer and no body be left behind. It takes few seconds, minutes, hours, and days to cause disasterous destruction and loss life and or limb. It takes days, weeks, months, and years to repair the damage at human and material level foolishlly caused by us. Let us pray for sensibilty and sanity and promote common good and do not exploite caste, creed, color, langange, region, and religion. Yours with humility |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 56 of 5400 ) From mona sharan Soft Saffron's Litmus Test Allowing the VHP to construct a temple at the disputed site in Ayodhaya and building a mosque in return elsewhere seems like a simple ready made solution. Unfortunately, this will only have the opposite effect of spawning countless other disputes over religious sites around the country. The VHP leadership has openly made claims about not stopping with Ayodhya and future plans of demolishing other mosques built on sites where they suspect temples once stood. Giving in to their demands and violent threats at this stage will only embolden them. This will not only perpetuate the culture of mindless prejudice and communal hatred they stand for, but will undoubtedly lead to other acts of violence and communal tension as witnessed in Gujarat and elsewhere. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 57 of 5400 ) From Vivek The Revenge Cycle Has To Stop The revenge cycle has to stop and would have stopped but for the fact that the condemnation of the ghastly murder was muted and people like you even appeared to suggest that the kar sevaks got what they deserved.I will never justify what followed but when you deny that a crime has been committed you commit another crime against the victims.It is sad but true that in India's grand design of secularism promoted by Indian minorities and Hindu non-believers like you,Hindu lives and Hindu sentiments are dispensible. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 58 of 5400 ) From Jochen Bink Dear Outlook editors, please have your writers refrain from judging events in news articles that should report the facts. This is a question of journalism and knowing one's job as a reporter. A reporter does not take sides but strives to be objective. If he succeeds in reporting the facts he will have achieved much. Note: I do abhor the attacks in Gujarat. Nevertheless, adjectives like "ghastly" and "dastardly" have no place whatsoever in news reports on the happenings. Don't worry, I agree with the writer's opinion in this case. But still such adjectives are only suited for editorials. When the press openly takes sides, criticizes, reproaches it looses credibility as an objective source of information. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 59 of 5400 ) From Laxminath I think it's high time now that we make these muslims believe that they cannot dictate terms at the cost of Hindus.We all very well know that partition of India was purely based on religion. And I am really proud of all my muslim brothers who stayed back in India. They enjoy lot of freedom here than in Pakisthan. Thanks to our ugly politicians that they can even openly badmouth Hindus and Hinduism. The situation has come to a position where Hindus are being critised if they talk about Hinduism . But on the contrary if a muslim freely expresses his religion of faith or badmouth Hinduism , he won't be critised. Even these ugly politicians and insane media as redifined word Secularism. Secularism now means you can badmouth Hinduism and praise those muslims who badmouth it. What a pity? Why cannot these muslims understand that they can never confront with Hindus in India. Why cannot they understand the feelings of their fellow Hindus? Why cannot they understand and agree with the Hindus that there should be Ram temple there? Muslims have Mecca. For Hindus , Ayodhya is as important as Mecca to Muslims. It's supposedly a birth place of Lord Ram. Why cannot they just think good and reach some agreement with Hindus? Muslims cannot really confront Hindus in India. They were just fortunate that Hindus are more resilient, more understanding that they are not doing any harm to them. But believe me if you test the patience of 80% population of Hindus, then muslims have to be reminded of another Bosnia in India!! I am proud of Islam. I am proud of my Muslim brothers. But it's not the way to behave with Hindus in India. Everybody knows that it's the Muslim commnunity that started commnunal flare up in Gujarat. I am sad that many muslims were now being killed because of retaliation from Hindus. Why cannot Muslims be practical? You don't have political power in India. You don't have financial power in India. That means you really cannot do anything in India. It's only our good sense that allowed you to live freely all these 50 years. Still you want to be ignorant with the belief that you can do anything you want?!! Wake up! India has real good problems to tackle, not these communal tensions. India has to tackle the problems of illiteracy, corruption, over population. So, let's all unite and face these changes. Muslims really has the chance now to show that they can also contribute good to our country by resolving this issue of Mandir-Masjid. Already you are facing crisis now that your religion is being equalled with terrorism at the international level. So, it's a kind of last oppurtunity for muslims to show that their religion is really a good religion. Otherwise it will become a lost oppurtunity for them |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 60 of 5400 ) From Radhakrishnan Nayar Maybe the only way to end this cycle of violence is a second partition of India. Perhaps Bengal, Bihar and the North-East of India should be set aside as a new Muslim country to which all Indian Muslims should be asked to go. This should be done peacefully, with full compensation for property losses etc. Hindus in these areas can either stay or come into the remaining part of India. |
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asif 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 61 of 5400 ) Dear Editor, This is surely an hour of shame for us all Indians, particularly to those of us who thought that we are living in a civilised society. The ghastly incidents of preceding week in which hundreds of Indians lost their lives, are to be condemned in unequivocal terms. When Atal Behari Vajpayee said he doesn’t want Muslim votes, perhaps he meant, he doesn’t even want Muslims in India. They should have believed him when had declared that he was a swayamsewak first and foremost. The replay of the Delhi Sikh Riots, in such a sinister manner in Gujarat, from the delibrate delay in calling army to the partisan attitude of the police , was deplorable. It shakes the very trust of muslims in the Indian state, especially in the light of the deafening and pregnant silence of our Home minister. A pertinent question which arises is that if a SIMI member indulges in criminal activity he is labelled ISI agent and anti national, but what about the the criminal activity of Bajrang Dal and VHP activists, who go about wielding swords and lynching people. The matters have touched such a low, that Narendra Modi criticises only Godhara incident and then goes on to justify the burning of whole family of ex- congress MP. Are some of us more Indian, than rest of us Indians. |
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3D 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 62 of 5400 ) How many deaths will it take -- of karsevaks returning home, of Muslims in their Ahmedabad homes, of Indians across this land -- for the VHP types to understand the destruction their temple campaign is bringing to India? Does Hindu honour, Hindu redemption, lie in bloodshed like this? |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 63 of 5400 ) Dear fellow Indians, especially those advocating revenge killings, please listen: When WTC was attacked by terrorists killing more than 3000 innocent people, the American people did not go out and kill all muslims or target any brown skinned foreigner. Instead, the US Govt. identified the culprits (Al Queda, Taliban) and set out to destroy them with all its might. That is how things should be in a civilized, democratic nation. The rule of law must be upheld in the interest of the majority. Revenge killings and sectarian strife will bring India to anarchy just like in somalia and Afghanistan. Think for yourself, what is better. And finally, how can any of you, obviously educated people, capable of thinking accept let alone advocate the killing of innocent people, especially children? Remember that we are born not as Hindus or Muslims, nor as Indians or Americans but as humanbeings! Stop advocating violence for heaven's sake! |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 64 of 5400 ) Dear fellow Indians, especially those advocating revenge killings, please listen: When WTC was attacked by terrorists killing more than 3000 innocent people, the American people did not go out and kill all muslims or target any brown skinned foreigner. Instead, the US Govt. identified the culprits (Al Queda, Taliban) and set out to destroy them with all its might. That is how things should be in a civilized, democratic nation. The rule of law must be upheld in the interest of the majority. Revenge killings and sectarian strife will bring India to anarchy just like in somalia and Afghanistan. Think for yourself, what is better. And finally, how can any of you, obviously educated people, capable of thinking accept let alone advocate the killing of innocent people, especially children? Remember that we are born not as Hindus or Muslims, nor as Indians or Americans but as humanbeings! Stop advocating violence for heaven's sake! |
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Swaroop 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 65 of 5400 ) Some people say riots are created, they don't just happen. That man is a social animal. But in this social animal's recorded history, less that 5% of the time has there been no war or carnage of some kind. These riots and general mayhem are probably the blowing up of the accumalated steam of boredom. If we see closely most of the rioters, kar sevaks, etc. are youth. Lumpen, lazy, inadequate, unqualified, bored middle and lower middle class young men. Their only reason to exist is to create some kind of disorder that serves to differentiate one miserable day from the other. There are probably only two ways to take care of this boredom. One is the american way. Make daily life so full of energy, vitality and excitement, most of it meanigless, like a mouse running round and round in the cage. It nevertheless serves the purpose of keeping people otherwise engaged. The other is the stalinist way. Make daily life so darn unpredictable and terror filled, that ordinary takes on a whole new meaning. And boredom is definitely not an issue when you go to bed every day wondering if there's going to be a kick in the door in the middle of the night. For all his brutality, the man definitely kept the country together, quiet and developed from a peasant society to a modern one in matter of 15 years. It might be miserable life living there, but then tell that to person burning, along with his family, in the middle of his own house, in gujarat. |
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One 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 66 of 5400 ) I as a Muslim would rather want all mosques brought down and temples built on them so that the VHP are happy enough. India is a country for the Hindus, of the Hindus and ruled by the HIndus. Muslims should understand that.If Hindus want a temple to be built on their land, let them build it. If Muslims are unhappy with that they shoudgo to somewhere else. Bajpai said he doesn't want Muslim votes. I dont want a mosque. I want peace. Anything for peace. Tears run down my cheek on reading articles after articles about the terrible situation. |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 67 of 5400 ) Godhra and the aftermath, begs to ask question that who is responsible for this. Going by simple logic it means that Muslims struck first and hindus took the revenge. But the rot is deeper and stems from the fact the Ayodhya can not be just wished away. The NDA govt , BJP in particular thought that it would not have to face this problem till it is in center as VHP is its own creation. But look back in Punjab and we have a sense of deja vu. Bhindarawale was a creation of Indira Gandhi and history is testimony to what happened to congress and Indira after that. Taking the discussion on another thread, the secularism does not mean that minority community needs to be appeased and majority to be sacrificed. The secularism means to provide equal oppurtunity for all the communities. No two ways about it. Today, the hindus in india has the feeling that they are being neglected in their own country and this gives rise to fanatic VHP. The answer lies in solving Ayodhya. Also few words for Vajpayee. I had admired his consensual style of politics but must say that he has been a singular failure as far as this episode is concerned. He lacked both tact as well as firmness of a leader. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 68 of 5400 ) Why does not our media write both sides of a story. Why is our media trying to become a lapdog of the west. Even western papers were more even sided in covering the story. Here is an article from the Los-Angeles times. Compare this article with any of them appearing on the Indian Papers. THE WORLD Sectarian Violence Racks India Riots: Scores are burned alive in Hindu-Muslim clashes in western state. By PAUL WATSON, TIMES STAFF WRITER AHMADABAD, India -- Neighbors battled neighbors with sticks, steel rods and swords in the narrow dirt lanes of this city's Naroda district, where dozens of homes and shops were looted and burned during three days of violence between Hindus and Muslims. More than 275 people have died since a mob in the town of Godhra in western India set fire to a train carrying Hindu nationalists Wednesday from the northern Indian city of Ayodhya, where right-wing Hindus want to build a temple on the site of a mosque destroyed in 1992. At least 58 people, including 14 children, died in the train attack. The right-wing Vishwa Hindu Parishad party says it will defy a court order and try to build a Hindu temple at the Ayodhya site as early as March 15, but Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee has sent thousands of paramilitary police to stop the group. The 1992 razing of the 16th century mosque sparked nationwide riots that killed 2,000 people. Hindus are the majority in India, but 140 million of its 1 billion people are Muslims. There were fears that the violence would spread across the country, but so far it mostly has been limited to Ahmadabad and other parts of Gujarat state. "They killed four Hindus and pulled their eyes out," said one resident, Ram Kirit Pannalal, 35. "Then they stuck swords in their stomachs and split them. They started shouting, 'Now we'll show you!' " In the village of Pandavarda, near Godhra, a mob herded at least 30 people into a house and burned them alive Friday afternoon, police said. In another attack, a crowd of about 200 swarmed six people walking next to a highway, about 30 miles from Godhra, and set them on fire. And officials said today that a Hindu mob torched the Muslim village of Sardarpura late Friday, killing at least 27 people. The fighting in Naroda began Thursday about 10 a.m., several survivors said today. A few buildings were still smoldering in the area, where several blocks of houses and shops were looted and torched. It is a scene reminiscent of "ethnic cleansing" during the collapse of the Yugoslav federation, and although India's current unrest is a far cry from the Balkan agony, it has shocked a country that prides itself on religious tolerance. Hindu survivors in Naroda complained today that Gujarat state police, sent to restore order, actually stood by as Muslim mobs went on a killing spree. And then, on Friday night, the police moved about 500 Muslim residents to "a safer place," Pannalal said. "We'll never allow them back," said Pannalal, who was armed with a chain and a stick. He stood menacingly with a small group of men and boys, guarding the invisible border between their neighborhood and the gutted remains of Jawaharnagar. Pannalal and Jagdish Tombar, 30, claimed that about 15 of their Muslim neighbors of starting the trouble by throwing stones. "It was organized. They had buckets full of stones," Pannalal said through an interpreter. "They attacked us, and then we got agitated too. Even women started attacking." As the violence escalated, police did not open fire or do anything else to disperse the mobs, the men claimed. Other survivors have made similar accusations. |
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rajeev 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 69 of 5400 ) Is Godhra a "MASSACRE" and aftermath a "VIOLENCE"? What an irony in supposed to be "fair" Indian Media.I would prefer to call Godhra a "MASSACRE" and aftermath "GENOCIDE".My heart goes to all the hindus of godhra and all the moslems of gujrat. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 70 of 5400 ) what we have sen in gujrat is a precursor to something more ominous. i have warned about this in my writings here. this cycle of violence has nothing to do with Ayodhya or the VHP. even if Ayodhya did not exist tye current situation will be no different. For example - give Ayodhya to the muslims and see if anything will be different. Nothing. The real problem is muslim mentality of exclusiveness and separatism. Pkaistan is an example of that. That tragedy is being replayed in India again. I fel sorry for all those psuedo secular hindu rascals who are criticizing the VHP. The VHPs stance is correct. The continued appeasement of Muslims will spell disaster for India. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 71 of 5400 ) Muslims have lost direction and are being exploited by their greedy communal leaders, pakistani bastards, and shameless hindu congress and communists. until and unless true secularism is implemented in india with a common civil code, banning of exclusive religious education (madrasas), and elimination of pakistani influence (finish pakistan now in a devastating war before it is too late). all these bleeding heart hindu rascals who call themselves secular are really fucking cowards. there are excuses for Godhra massacre (where hindus are killed) and severe condemnation of the hindus (where muslims are killed). Bullshit. All killings should be condemned. The only way to stop this problem is 1) chase the congress bastards out of Delhi and all Capitals 2) Ban the communist parties and throw them into the bay of bengal (stinking rotten bastards) 3) eliminate all special laws for muslims and minorities - one common civil code 4) shoot all rioters on sight irrespective of religion 5) wage war on pakistan and eliminate that countries ability to create trouble. |
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vadvani 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 72 of 5400 ) After the WTC attacks, muslims in general have lost any sympathy that would normally come there way during events like those in Gujarat. The attack on the Sabarmati express was totally unnecessary. I wonder why VHP is being asked to cool down. Imagine, if it were muslims travelling in that train and a mob of hindus had burnt it down? They would still be blaming VHP. I think the muslims had this coming their way. If they have a problem living peacefully in India- go to Pakistan. |
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vishag 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 73 of 5400 ) Indian media are at their worst , in reporting Godhra and aftermath. There is absolutely no need to print photographs of dead bodies or display videos on tv news channels in a competetive manner by media.MEDIA HAS DEFINITELY ADDED FUEL TO COMMUNAL FLARE UP. I am yet to see a picture of a dead body brought out from 11 september debris. Yechuris , Mulayams , and best of the lot ` KAMALNATHS`(Having called Godhra NATURAL and justified it within hours of it`s happening.)are doing nation great disservice. Condemnation of Godhra should have been IMMEDIATE , FROM ALL PARTY LEADERS and APEAL TO MAINTAIN PEACE should have appeared in ALL media . |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 74 of 5400 ) The current retaliationary genocide in gujarat is triggered by the godhra massacre of the carsevaks by the muslims.But the muslims of gujarat are paying the price not for the godhra incident alone.They are at the recieving end of the general pent up anger related to the conflict with pakistan and the massacre of hindus in jammu.Not to mention the saffron brigade`s consistent efforts to remind the hindus about the persecution they suffered in the medieval ages.This is where we are unfair to them (muslims). In jammu,the terrorists who carry on the killings of hindus are phenominally different from the gujarati muslims with respect to nationality,motives and even race.The former are proffessional mercenaries hired by an enimy nation to carry on its political agenda of acquiring a territory while the latter are contributing to the economy of one of the most industrially developed state of the country.So targetting them for the former`s misdeeds is a manifestation of venting out frustration on the weak.It is just like the situation where if the U.S. attacks INDIA, india retaliates by attacking UGANDA or NIGERIA since they are also christians. Regarding pakistan,well the political conflict have been given communal turn and pakistan has become synonimous with muslims and this is then extrapolated to the indian muslims.No doubt, a large chunk of muslim mass in india is still out of mainstream but they need to be roped in by love and not by hate,suspicion and mistrust.(Moreover,how many people in this diverse 1 billion are really in indian mainstream? Infact does there really exist something like indian mainstream or its just a passtime emotional outburst during a kargil "war" or a cricket match with pakistan). There is an emerging section among muslims which is literate,progressive,liberal and as much patriotic as any other citizen of the country.By constant muslim bashing,this section stands the chances of relapsing back or even falling in the hands of fundamentalists(terrorists).The efforts shall be to expand this section by giving the muslims education and employment and thus utilising this potentially vast human resource for the development of the nation.Even the apparently extreme and radical steps would be welcomed in this direction.First would be to implement a uniform civil code and then amending "secular" articles of the constitution like "ARTICLE28"(Freedom of attendence at religious instruction or religious worship in certain educational institutions) This is to abolish all madarsas and the RSS schools like "sarasvati". Let the CENTRAL SCHOOLS rule the roost with their CBSE affiliation. Shedding the "us and them" mentality is the need of the hour and the radiculous notion that its "our" nation and "we" are allowing "them" to live here.The choice is between a united,strong and prosperous india AND a coflict ridden,weak,and chaotic india where rightists rule the roost and where someday UN security forces land in the name of maintaining peace and stability and thereby giving the western hawks viz the US to fulfill their interventionist designs. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 75 of 5400 ) globy, what you say is true to an extent. i have been warning of this pent up hindu anger. the continued muslim communalism, the happenings in kashmir, and pakistan's proxy war have made a deep impact on the hindu mind. slowly a warlike internal situation will be created with a civil war between the two communities ala 1947. the shameless support the muslim communalists are receiving from the congress and the bitch sonia gandhi will destroy the country. it is time sonia gandhi is confronted,. this bluff should be called. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 76 of 5400 ) globy, the following has to happen if we are to avert this situation. 1)the communist parties in india should be banned for inciting and misleading the muslims. 2)the congress party has to change its appeasement policies or it will spell disaster for the country. 3)a common civil code has to be imlemented. 4)dharnas and violent protests should be banned. all people indulging in such activity should be shot on sight. 5)madrasas should be closed all over india. 6)all religion based and regional parties should be banned. only national parties should be allowed. 7)the kashmir problem has to solved by force. there is no other way. pakistan as a state should be eliminated. the present form of british parliamenary system is also a major proble. suitable changes should be decided on. these are major major initiatives. what is the chnace of this. very little. but all right thinking people should strive for these changes or we will see the destruction of india. |
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gopi123 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 77 of 5400 ) I don't understand how a human being kills a fellow human being so brutally for no fault of the latter. These barbaric activities by frenzy religious zealots should be stopped at all costs. India is a secular country where every citizen has equal rights for living in peace. I think Indian Government's Intelligence wing has bared its weakness once again shamelessly. I feel the intelligence wing has bunch of eunuchs sitting there and drawing fat salaries rather than alerting the government for preventing this kind of barbaric acts. Prevention is better than cure. It is better in the interests of people of India that we staff the intelligence wings of both State governments and central government wings with intelligenct and well educated youth. |
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janoo 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 78 of 5400 ) The muslims who are slaughtered by Hindus mijority in Hindustan... ARE they not indian nationals ???? it is a question from claiming (secular) Hindus and Hindustinees??? As Your Prime Minsiter has said these roit is a bolt of Hindustan face. In other words Hindus are a piece of shit on the name of India? Big shame on you Indian Hindus a minority is safe in India even it is Christian, Muslims, Herigan, Sikh or thers. You have proved that Hindustan is the biggest fundamental country in the WORLD. You can not hide anything from the world now- you were worng, you are and you will till this country divided into many pieces as RUSSIA. A BIG SPIT on Hindus faces. |
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janoo 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 79 of 5400 ) No monority is safe in India, it has been exposed to the World now...... You are tbe biggest fundamental and biggest state terrorist in the World. Give a look around the world no nations destroy the holy places of any minority in any country but only you stupid hindus............... put your own item bombs on your nations and finish this pice of shit that exist in the map of the civilized world. |
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janoo 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 80 of 5400 ) What ISI doing nothing It is only your Wehem. You have enemployment in your country, you have poor ppls in your county they don't get evey one time meal in a day. It is only your fundamental politician who were fully involved in all thess roits just to save their government. Head that if there is no rain in India, stupid indian says ISI involve in the matter. If a beffalo dies in Indai Stupid ppl in india says ISI involve. Cross borader, ifiltration, how it could be , Indian Army has put mines from one border corner to anther how a human can cross boarder in such circusmtances, but only indian ppl are dying by putting their own feet on that mines. If some thing happen in ASSAm, Manipur PPl say ISI involve. You lazy and drinker ppl of india can capture so for a skeliton VEERA PUN, what you can else..... |
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d_barad 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 81 of 5400 ) What ISI doing nothing It is only your Wehem. You have enemployment in your country, you have poor ppls in your county they don't get evey one time meal in a day. It is only your fundamental politician who were fully involved in all thess roits just to save their government. Head that if there is no rain in India, stupid indian says ISI involve in the matter. If a beffalo dies in Indai Stupid ppl in india says ISI involve. Cross borader, ifiltration, how it could be , Indian Army has put mines from one border corner to anther how a human can cross boarder in such circusmtances, but only indian ppl are dying by putting their own feet on that mines. If some thing happen in ASSAm, Manipur PPl say ISI involve. You lazy and drinker ppl of india can capture so for a skeliton VEERA PUN, what you can else..... |
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d_barad 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 82 of 5400 ) What ISI doing nothing It is only your Wehem. You have enemployment in your country, you have poor ppls in your county they don't get evey one time meal in a day. It is only your fundamental politician who were fully involved in all thess roits just to save their government. Head that if there is no rain in India, stupid indian says ISI involve in the matter. If a beffalo dies in Indai Stupid ppl in india says ISI involve. Cross borader, ifiltration, how it could be , Indian Army has put mines from one border corner to anther how a human can cross boarder in such circusmtances, but only indian ppl are dying by putting their own feet on that mines. If some thing happen in ASSAm, Manipur PPl say ISI involve. You lazy and drinker ppl of india can capture so for a skeliton VEERA PUN, what you can else..... |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 83 of 5400 ) luwmann, i am sorry to say that you are blaming a wrong person.People like Sonia are necessary to confront the rightist hawks or else india would become another Yugoslavia.For the last fifteen years or so its not the muslims who are playing communalists but the saffron brigade.Just analyse the origin of the last two major riots-the 1992 and the current gujarat ones.In both the cases it was rooted in the sangh parivar`s communal agenda.You talk about separatism,well my friend the recent separatism is more a product of the hate campaign of the saffron brigade than due to the muslim leadership. Everytime the country seems like getting in a blissful harmony these jansanghis come up and remind people of their separate faiths and emphasise and exaggerate the difference.They preach the "us" versus "them" mentality.In the post partition era the illiterate and backward muslims used to be reactionary,who were pampered by the congress but now the sangh parivar is doing so on behalf of hindus whom they dont represent fully.Is there a need to stoop so low and if yes than how is this cycle going to end? About kashmir and pakistan,my dear friend its a political and not a communal problem as i have explained in my previous message(plz read it fully).Would you justify mass murder of sikhs bcoz of the killing of hindus in punjab by sikh terrorists,in those days? Now about muslim leadership,why at the first place do we need separate leaderships for different religious communities?It is this communal leaderships which led to the partition in 1947.If the present day india consists of different communities then they are based on class and intellect rather than religion.There are many muslims in this free speach forum.Dont you think that you and them belong to the same intellectual community?And do you think that you and those illeterate and misguided carsevaks have any resemblance which merits to put you in the same community?India needs healthy ideological leaderships rather than communal leaderships-like the republicans and democrats in the US or the liberals and conservatives in the UK.We have outgrown the era of communal leadrships now.About the shortcomings of the muslims and the ways to bring them in the national "mainstream" i have written enough in my previous article.Please read it fully. |
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indo_g 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 84 of 5400 ) Godhra MASSACRE followed by Naroda GENOCIDE "STATE TERRORIST" Advani says 427 people are officially burnt alive. Muslim media reports more than 6000 muslims are charred to death. Well my intuition begs me to believe the muslim media. Watever. My heart goes to godhra hindu activists and all gujrati muslims. Now Hindu terrorists of BJP, RSS, VHP are saying secularists are to blame. What a buffoonery are they making themselves. As a middle-class hindu from the south I will definitely support a trial of Advani, MM Joshi, Narendra Modi, Ashok Singhal and Sudharshan at INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT OF JUSTICE for provoking, aiding, abetting the Genocide of thousands of innocent muslims all over India. STATE TERRORISM being perpetrated by hindu terrorists of BJP should come to a stop. Now Muslims, tomorrow christians and dayafter Dalits and after that Dravidians. Well that would wipe out half of India's Population. My fellow indians think about it. Hindu Terrorists of BJP is not about developing India, its about taking India to dogs and ditches. People from UP, Uttaranchal and Punjab are slowly realising that. Why not you?? Hindu terrorism is not the way to go. Hinduism is all about tolerance and hindutva is all about terrorism and genocide. |
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indo_g 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 85 of 5400 ) Godhra MASSACRE followed by Naroda GENOCIDE "STATE TERRORIST" Advani says 427 people are officially burnt alive. Muslim media reports more than 6000 muslims are charred to death. Well my intuition begs me to believe the muslim media. Watever. My heart goes to godhra hindu activists and all gujrati muslims. Now Hindu terrorists of BJP, RSS, VHP are saying secularists are to blame. What a buffoonery are they making themselves. As a middle-class hindu from the south I will definitely support a trial of Advani, MM Joshi, Narendra Modi, Ashok Singhal and Sudharshan at INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT OF JUSTICE for provoking, aiding, abetting the Genocide of thousands of innocent muslims all over India. STATE TERRORISM being perpetrated by hindu terrorists of BJP should come to a stop. Now Muslims, tomorrow christians and dayafter Dalits and after that Dravidians. Well that would wipe out half of India's Population. My fellow indians think about it. Hindu Terrorists of BJP is not about developing India, its about taking India to dogs and ditches. People from UP, Uttaranchal and Punjab are slowly realising that. Why not you?? Hindu terrorism is not the way to go. Hinduism is all about tolerance and hindutva is all about terrorism and genocide. |
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Josh 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 86 of 5400 ) Last week we saw 2 things, 1. Worst riots and secterian violence. 2. Mr. Sinha's all-nonsense budget. If any of you have analysed India closely for last 10 years, you will know that History repeats itself. India is definitely following one of the paths, either Germany (pre-WWII) or Erstwile Soviet Union. In either if the present trend continues, it is doom for India. Well those of you who disagree with me please go through your history books once again. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 87 of 5400 ) All of us reasonable hindus now have the dharmic duty of exposing the VHP for what it truly is. Krishna counseled Arjuna to fight against his own cousins because that was the right thing to do. So, lets roll.... As a NRI I will work to expose the VHP in the local press. We will ensure that it is considered by the U.S. State Department to be a hate group like Hamas and many others. We will demand accountability from the local VHP folks. This may be a small step but every journey begins with one step.... |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 88 of 5400 ) janoo, fuck you you mother fucker. while you are condemning the killings of muslims in revenge attackes, why do you think this happened. because, your muslim brothers are indulging in senseless violence against the hindus for decades and centuries. ficked up mother fucker, shit head mind your mouth when you talk about hindus and India. We will cut your balls off you imbecile. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 89 of 5400 ) indo_g and pmishra2, two motherfucking hindu secular bastards. let me tell you assholes that it is because of benchots like you that india is in trouble periodically. If the VHP, RSS, and BJP dont exist there will still be the same problem that you have today. the congress matherchots and their communist allies have turned the muslims into a degenerate lot hating their own country. you friends the pakistani bastards are adding fuel to the fire. you benchots imbecile fool matherchots, wake up an dsmell the roses. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 90 of 5400 ) indo_g and pmishra2, look at history you bastards. in 1947 there was gandhi and nehru and only tyhe congress. the RSS was just formed. what happened. a collosal massacre where millions died. was the VHP there at that time. was there a bajrang dal you imbecile matherchots. the problem is being caused by extreme muslim commnalism aided and abbetted by the congress nincompoops. the BJP is nothing more than a congress clone today. if we let the muslims get away withn murder and pakistan with terrorism, the future will be bleak indeed. hindus should rise up and defend themselves and kill the terrorists, whatever their religious peruastion (muslims, hindus or sikhs). the VHP is not to blame for the carnage at Godhra and afterwards. the Godhra carnage was perpetrated by a congresswala. you empty headed idiots, do not go overboard with your secular nonsense. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 91 of 5400 ) luwmann, Your words express your character completely. I do not need to add any comment. Why are you suddenly so scared? I am only proposing that the truth be told about the VHP to the whole world. Remember: Satyamev Jayate - Only the truth will triumph. Ooops, I forgot, you are fanatic first and an indian last. You would not care about such silly slogans. |
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india47 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 92 of 5400 ) use all the vulgar terms possible but the truth remains that those who live by the sword will die by it. Hence let us find another way but this |
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kantv 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 93 of 5400 ) sans the vulgarism I am in much agreement with luwmann. You all are missing the point behind the vulgar abuses and stale slogans. All these years our politicians have pampered the minorities (muslims in perticuler) in order to convert them into vote banks. Like the saying goes, 'spare the brat spoil the child'. Muslims in this country have to learn that they are indians first and anything else second. Anyone who is anti india is my enemy, no matter what religion he belongs to. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 94 of 5400 ) Over 200 Hindus have died in the riots in Gujarat including the 10 girls that were abducted from the Sabarmati express. Their bodies were discovered on the Godhra-Vadodra highway the next day. Why is that we dont hear any news of that. This kind of biased reporting that goes on in the Indian media makes even moderate persons to become more hardline. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 95 of 5400 ) Mr. Mishra, I admire your support of the truth. But remember only the complete truth shall prevail, not half truths hidden behind a veil of lies. |
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rt55 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 96 of 5400 ) Hey everybody, I know tempers are high these days. Mr Mishra is right , we never hear about the other side, the whole world always blames hindus and India as the problem, but the matter of fact is that muslims cannot live with anybody, hindus,christians, jews all are their enemies. The root of all conflicts in the world today are islamic fanatics. Let us just finish the unfinished business of the partition, in a peaceful manner if possible. That is the only solution, hindus and muslims cannot live together, PERIOD. I like what luwmann has to say, but please be polite. |
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jatt 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 97 of 5400 ) Dear luwmann, you are literally a son of bitch. a disgrace to all hindus. it is assholes like you who have kept india in poverty, disease, illiteracyand inhuman living conditions for millions. god forbid, if that doomed mandir is ever made, majority will never ever want to go there , even to urinate. jai hind. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 98 of 5400 ) Jatt, all our poverty and illiteracy are a result of relying on God to do everything for us. The result has been that everyone has walked over us. Now is the time to awaken from the deep slumber and develop a spinal cord. It is a shame that muslims who comprise 14% of the population can still prevent the majority Hindus from building a temple in India. Even a small ant shall shall strike back if we harass it, Hindus who have been too soft over the centuries need to learn a lesson from the ant. |
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rj 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 99 of 5400 ) What's wrong with India. It sounds like Rwanda. We are worse than sub-saharan-Africa. So much hatred? Who are these people who are doing it? Time and again we are shown the ugly face of terrorism on TV, we are shown the people who commit terrorist acts and get to hear the accounts; why does nobody expose these VHP gangs who have no respect for human life? what inspires them and why? How do they get organized? or for that matter those muslims at Godhra; who are they, what do they do? how do they get brainwashed? Lord Ram; who threw his own wife out and later she commited suicide; is a sick god to have a temple for any way. |
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nsb2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 100 of 5400 ) At least a handful of messages posted here are truly sane, democratic, and secular. I wish to ask how some hindu and muslim fanatics feel that the blatantly flagrant views they so dearly hold on to absolves them of religious extremism (sin?)? Fanaticism, irrespective of the religious belief is unacceptable. I was born a Hindu, but have never felt threatened by any other religion. I'm an atheist now, but I still can respect other's beliefs. It is not very difficult to ignore those who disagree with me. But the central problem is the inability of the harrassed and wrongly persecuted to have recourse to law and order. I bet you, none of the fanatics of either faith have an education beyond high school. If some do, then there is something seriously wrong with our education system. We have let ignorance breed long enough that it is now coming back at us as an uncontrollable demon. I would like to see severe sentences meted out to the guilty with added humiliation of exposure of their ignorance and stupidity on national TV. |
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jatt 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 101 of 5400 ) Mr brahmos, you are missing the point. first of all mandir WILL be built, whether we like it or not. but, should one mandir(out of millions) be the cause of thousands of deaths, crores in loss of property, hold the largest democracy at ransom and pitch one community against the other? and no, God is not the cause of our misery. WE ARE. or maybe more likely the generation before us.but as long as we quit thinking about only "one problem " facing the country, we are betraying our motherland. jai haind |
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rj 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 102 of 5400 ) Mr. Brahmos, Who is stopping you from building a temple to a male chauvinist, sati advocating god (called Ram)?? Go ahead; knock yourself out.. Why do you have this obsession to build it at the exact place of the masjid? Everyone has walked over us because we were stuck with our ignorance of castiesm and sati and it was our inner lack of strength and for that we have no one to blame but ourselves. -- A Hindu |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 103 of 5400 ) This is to highlight the indiscrimate and blind nature of killings going on in gujarat."BOHRAS"(called BORI or BOHRI in gujarat) are a subsect of muslims.They are a very peaceful and highly patriotic business community.Ideologically and temperamentally they are more close to hindus than muslims.The only islamic trace they have in them is their names.They are just like "parsis". Unfortunately a large number of bohras were killed and their business establishments were burned during the current communal flares.Inspite of repeated pleas the police didnt come to their help(though the local police knew the nature of this community).This is not to condone the killings of other muslims but even if a neutral community is not spared in the riots then what tendency the government and the administration is encouraging? These people are progressive and affluent and are in the so called "national mainstream".If turned off like this by the administration and the people in general do they not stand the chances of resorting to separatism and fundamentalism? Will not the ISI agents find fertile grounds in this community after the gujarat episode? |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 104 of 5400 ) From Mohammad I strongly condemned the line taken by Vinod Mehta on STAR TV program, 'the big fight' that why not Muslims think of doing such a barbaric act in Godhra. This is not suited to a person like Vinod to point out Muslims. Have the lines adopted by VHP and sangh pariwar is then to blame all Hindus. If they have not think something of this nature can happen Whatever act of violence by anyone is to condemn in strong words but to saying sentence is like this not suits to the position he has holding. I will never ever read OUTLOOK again and on your website. Just to remind Vinod that if you recall all the natural calmities is happened mainly in Gujrat, why the laboratory of HINDU extremism is there. Dont you see with your open eyes. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 105 of 5400 ) From Neeraja Rao Immunned to pain? As seen in the TV program-We The People, the polarization of political parties has begun The lack of necessary justified. The death toll is crossing 400 and `we¿ are in a confused mindset. Dwelling in judging correct and incorrect Deployment plans adopted. Why is the religion being placed on a pedestal of mindless worship? Have the people of India lost the basic human characteristic of compassion? Have we grown to witness the construction of a `sacred monument¿ with our counterparts¿ lives at stake? The time has definitely gone when prayers were offered for peace of mind and social sanctity. Indulging in symbolizing a particular piece of land, righteousness has been put backstage. A history of riots and communal clashes has ensured that Ayodhya be hotbed of discussion or rather crux of negotiations. Why is the prospect of building an educational institution or a hospital being cast off? Godhra issue as the CM says, is the reaction to an action! ¿tactlessly exposing the lack of preventive steps For premonitions of possible violence. In an appalling state of governance mixed with religion, prevails the politics of faith. Bodies outside the NDA(VHP,RSS) are taking a major stance in sensitized `national¿ issue. Pride goes before the fall, Mask of secularism drops in the maul! |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 106 of 5400 ) From wan man In re: The Revenge Cycle Has To Stop illiterate and stupid, Do yo know that these mlechcchs are killing HINDUS SINCCE 1000 YEARS. THEY DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN BECAUSE OF 90 % OF CAWARDS, LIKE YOU, AMONG hINDUS. IT IS SIMPLE FACCT THAT IF YOU HIT BACK,THE MLECCCCCCCHS WILL NEVER DARE TO DO AGAIN. In such situation that docile Gandhi is to be dumped. Think of Rana Pratap, Shivaji maharaj Guru Govindsing, Savarkar, Shri Nathuram Godse |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 107 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Shooting the messenger : The media only mirrors the tensions on the ground A riot-free government? HT Edit Time to resign : HT Edit City of beasts : The victims were forgotten as greed reigned By ANURITA RATHORE in IE We have already defiled the Ayodhya site : Let us, the ordinary people of this land, make a declaration...R.P. SUBRAMANIAN in IE Climate of intolerance By A.G. Noorani in HT The delegates and speakers discussed [in Bhopal wid AA Engineer] how the misuse of religion by politician and corrupt religious leaders cause grief to the people destroys the spirit of religion. Shri Prabash Joshi was critical about the activities of Sangh Parivar. He said it is wrong to call it a parivar because in a family there exists a bond of love between members. But in Sangh there is only hatred and violence. He said it should be called a Sangh Sampradaya for trying to create a communal identity. He said, "ordinary Hindu never approve destruction of any mosque and people have proved it by voting the BJP out of power in UP the very next year after the demolition of Babri Masjid." |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 108 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Burnt beyond recognition : Gujarat was on fire while two governments fiddled : Baba Nayyar [Sonia, HKS... Mulayam... Jyotida... Nayyar!!! who could do fast unto death b4 this shameless Gujarati Pol Pot is removed from office...?!?] Chief Minister Modi should have submitted his resignation for the failure to control the situation. He should do it now. If not, the Centre must dismiss him. For lesser reasons, state governments have been asked to quit. Why not the Modi government? The Centre, blatantly partial, is ruled by the NDA, a coalition of 24 parties, not by the BJP alone. Where is Chandrababu Naidu, of secular credentials fame? He is conspicuous by his silence. [he is rather part responsible 4 it all... so is 'secular' dramuk Karuna'nidhi minus all the karuna (compassion)...] Kar sevaks beat up AP scribe : PTI [SATURDAY, MARCH 02, 2002 5:44:16 PM ] Beyond the ides of March : Neerja Chowdhury 4 IE\ Has Vajpayee lost control? By SAKINA YUSUF KHAN 4 TOI Battlefield as Hindu rioters take revenge Violence in India » Charred corpses in streets as angry mobs rampage 'in bastions of peace' By Peter Popham in Ahmedabad India Violence Spreads, Toll Hits 415 By Beth Duff-Brown, Associated Press Writer 4 WP |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 109 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Is it the beginning of the end for the NDA? By VIDYA SUBRAHMANIAM 4 TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ SUNDAY, MARCH 03, 2002 12:41:12 AM ] ...[Evil Dark Forces Exposed, provided enuff evidence why they don't deserve ever a seat of power... Vidya thaara muNh ma ghee shakkar... :), dudh-o-naha'o ;) rather O... and puut'O phal'O... ah there is another one... akhand sobhagiyawati bhavo :)]... Karachi guards Hindus BBC [It is pretty evident who is better evolved... and competent n compassionate... Muslim Majority areas showing restraints shows they r a more mature civility] Gag orders issued against TV news channels... khisyani billii khambaa noache... Jetly defence poor and this shameless defence proves he is a Bajrangi lumpen down to the core yet pretending 2 be moderate conservative... shame on yuuz... Police took part in slaughter : India's lawmen offered little protection against Hindu gangs massacring Muslim neighbours, Luke Harding in Ahmedabad, Observer la Sunday Indian defence hike : edit-e-nation.com.pk [billions and billion in 'gora' pockets... while south asian poor starve... lack basic amneties... education... health... where is effin' civilization... and when it is gonna happen?!?...] A tryst with the beast within and without : TOI Where there is no doctor : Wanted: a healer in every village By SHYAM ASHTEKAR 4 IE India's villages have remained without respectable healthcare after five decades of independence, nine Five Year Plans, and the dawn of a new century. Today, 70 per cent of villages have no access to doctors and people are dependent for their healthcare needs on distant, inefficient primary health centres, much like Birbal’s khichri cooking on a barge pole. Of course there are quacks but even they, by no means, fill the huge gap in healthcare. |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 110 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Burnt beyond recognition : Gujarat was on fire while two governments fiddled : [Sonia, HKS... Mulayam... Jyotida...!!! who could do fast unto death b4 this shameless Gujarati Pol Pot is removed from office...] Chief Minister Modi should have submitted his resignation for the failure to control the situation. He should do it now. If not, the Centre must dismiss him. For lesser reasons, state governments have been asked to quit. Why not the Modi government? The Centre, blatantly partial, is ruled by the NDA, a coalition of 24 parties, not by the BJP alone. Where is Chandrababu Naidu, of secular credentials fame? He is conspicuous by his silence. [he is rather part responsible 4 it all... so is 'secular' dramuk Karuna'nidhi minus all the karuna (compassion)...] Kar sevaks beat up AP scribe : PTI [SATURDAY, MARCH 02, 2002 5:44:16 PM ] Beyond the ides of March : Neerja Chowdhury 4 IE\ Has Vajpayee lost control? By SAKINA YUSUF KHAN 4 TOI Battlefield as Hindu rioters take revenge Violence in India » Charred corpses in streets as angry mobs rampage 'in bastions of peace' By Peter Popham in Ahmedabad |
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sarguroh 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 111 of 5400 ) It is unbelievable that so many innocent lives were lost in Godhra and in Gujarat. My personal view is Terrorism has no place in India or elsewhere. Terrorist organisations like VHP, Bajrang Dal and RSS should be banned and the US and other allies should blacklist them as well. They have burned Christians and razed churches as well in the past. This is madness and such terrosists should be dealt with sternly. Let all Indians unitedly eliminate Terrorist organisations like VHP, RSS and Bajrang Dal and make India a beautiful place to live! Regards Mr Sarguroh |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 112 of 5400 ) Most people do not remember the history of India or do not want to remember it. People have a blinkered vision of history. They have forgotten their past. It is not just a statement that India was the world richest country, how then can a world power come down to this level in a millenium. This is because we have no faith in ourselves and our past. People who want to know how we suffered at the hands of the marauders should read the book 'The Koran and the Kafirs', by A. Ghosh, the Houston based author. The weblink is www.hindutva.org/KoranKafir. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 113 of 5400 ) From Ashok Devang I find no words to condemn the inhumane killing of the 58 Hindu passengers in the Sabarmati Express but I am really surprised when some quarters are terming these victims as “innocent people”. How can these people be “innocent” when they were willingly out to break the law and order situation in the country? They were challenging the Constitution, the courts, the government, besides provoking to disturb the peaceful atmosphere of India. Calling them “innocent” is doing injustice to the word “innocent”. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 114 of 5400 ) From Prashant Solomon In the last week the nation has been gripped by unprecedented violence in the state of Gujarat. Despite several reports in the media about police and other state agencies being unconcerned about protecting the innocent people of the state, the central government has not taken any action in the matter. Our constitution provides for the Centre to dismiss a state government in times of non-performance. This is such a time. How many more innocent lives need to be lost before these leaders take action? The BJP government at the centre should immediately dismiss the government of Gujarat Chief Minister Modi and impose President's Rule in Gujarat. A Parliamentary delegation from the opposition comprising of Shabana Azmi, Raj Babbar and Amar Singh went to Gujarat and have commented about the absolute breakdown of law & order in that state. Defence Minister George Fernandes also stated that the lack of support by Modi's government and police in Gujarat led to the loss of many lives that could otherwise have been saved. What kind of a democracy is this? Our national level leaders are saying publicly that the state is in a state of complete turmoil and the Modi government is doing nothing about it, but on the other hand they are allowing the CM to continue in office due to God-knows what kind of pressure from various "parivar" factions. Clearly, the BJP's agenda is to appease their own ideological fraternity than to protect democracy and save innocent lives. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 115 of 5400 ) From TUHIN PODDAR This is in reference to the present situation in Gujarat. As being one among the sensible persons of the world what maximum I can do is criticize about the incident, show regret and nothing more. But time has come to think deeper. Violence in the name of religion and God is not new in any part of the world. And it has been happening since ages and we are not able to comprehend the reason behind this. As far as I think the basic idea behind any religion with which they had been formed was to stop or prevent people from committing crime. That is why the concept of the God came into existence and people started fearing that there is a supreme power to punish them. In fact no one can prove that he/she has seen God to come and save the worshipers or to punish the guilty. Had that been ever happened then why we do have police force to catch the culprit and law to punish them? And if there is any supreme power to punish then how the day after day the crimes are taking place and many of them still at large and even the world’s best of the networks are not able to apprehend them. I cannot even tell you that there is no supreme power, which runs the Universe as per common belief and is there any other universe where there is existence of life. But what I believe is that as we started worshiping rain God because it helped us in crop and sun god as the movement of world makes day and night and we never knew the facts and worshiped since ages. My belief says that our ignorance made us to worship either out of respect or fear. I am not saying that one religion is supreme than other or every thing is wrong in all the religion. There are many things related to morality and honesty, which are really good for a civilized society to run smoothly. But that does not mean that we start hating the others. As we have seen in any riot or accident God never comes to save its worshipers. One person killing other without mercy and God never comes to save the innocent. In my opinion now the time has come for all the sensible person of the world should out of this concept of the God and literate the people to make this world a safer and healthier place to live. Instead of making a place of worship, people should join hand to check all kinds of crime and make the life of the poor a little better. Yours truly, Tuhin Kanti Poddar |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 116 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava A deadly soup By Bhupendra Yadav in Buddhadesh Times Historian E.P. Thompson said deformed culture was more destructive than atom bombs and a deformed mind was the ultimate doomsday weapon. Culture is deformed when rationality wilfully divorces itself from moral sensibility and awful realism clobbers human imagination to death. Consequently, people learn to first kill ‘the Other’ in abstractions long before the first stone is hurled. Do we have any proof of this death of both imagination and moral sensibility in Gujarat? Reading Asghar Ali Engineer’s book, Essays in Contemporary Politics of Identity, Religion and Secularism, we get some evidence of this in Gujarat. In July 1986, the Vishwa Hindu Samachar of the VHP said editorially: “All Hindus must unite to fight against vidharmis (the unfaithful). Conversions are continuing for a long time and they are a conspiracy of superpowers.… Hindu population declined due to conversions and wherever Hindu population declines, Pakistans and Krististans (sic) are formed.” ...The properties being burnt are those of businessmen, most of whom belong to Bohra, Khoja and Memon biradaris. They despise ‘other’ Muslims - calling them ‘miyabhai’. They are not active in politics, were lukewarm to the Shah Bano agitation and the Babri masjid issue and they normally support the ruling party. So when we talk of innocent victims of a carnage, they lie on both sides of the communal divide. Opinion - Letters to the Editor The Iindu Book the culprits : Sir, __ Refer your Editorials `Deadly spiral' (March 1) and `Horror in Gujarat' (March 2). Has the human heart become so ruthless and insensitive that it has totally lost all respect and sympathy for human lives? Whoever _ Hindu or Muslim _ is killed, it is a heinous crime against humanity and no person on earth can afford to remain silent without condemning it. But the total commitment should come from the Central and State Governments, whose primary duty is to ensure the protection of every citizen of the country. Whether it is the Godhra incident or the mindless orgy of violence thereafter, the Government should not spare any effort to track down the culprits without bias and bring them to justice at the earliest. [justice shouldn't just be done but also seen2be done... or whatever... compensation 2 lakh 4 Godhra train victim (bajrangi)... and one lakh for the 'rest'... while it should be other way round... coz 'the rest burned alive mostly in their houses... so they lost more... if not equal compensation...] K. Malikul Azeez, Chennai |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 117 of 5400 ) From ATM (Surat ¿ Gujarat ¿ India ) · Communal riots in Gujarat. · Carnage in Godhara. · Open carnage in Ahmedabad. People are burnt alive. · People were openly killed in Pandarwada ( Panchmahal Dist.) · Riots takes place in Ahmedabad, Baroda, Bharuch, Surat, Mehsana, Anand, Kheda, Rajkot, Panchmahal, Himmatnagar and in some village also. Real fact is that no religion teaches us or permits us to kill any one or to burn any one on the name of religion. · Is this humanity to kill women, children, burn religious places, to burn people alive ? · Does religion teach us these things ? can¿t we stop this fire ? · We kindly request to all the religious institutes. Human right centers, different religious priests intellectual people, social workers, journalist and all the members of the society to settle the religious fire as soon as possible which burns Gujarat. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 118 of 5400 ) From M. I. Ansari Muslims severely anguished We condemn the Godhra Train Carnage in strongest words. We have to assert that the Muslims always respect the lives and honour of every human being. We demand a Judicial Inquiry also into the root causes and facts behind the tragic event. Varied versions are revealed in the T.V. news reports, such as the beating up of the Muslim boys who were selling tea on the Railway Platform by the Ram Soaks, and that the passengers were cooking in the train when a kerosene-stove burst and caused the fire in the bogey. The Govt. blames the Pakistan¿s ISI connection in the heinous crime. We demand explanation for the negligence as listed hereunder: 1. Delay in realizing the strong possibility of the repercussion in Gujarat by the Administration. Delay on the part of the Govt. of India and the State Govt. of Gujrat to take preventive actions in Gujrat and other parts of the country, particularly due to the call of Bandh made by their own militant wings, parts of the Sangh Pariwar. 2. Non-deployment of the Military force despite the certainty of the eruption of violence on a big scale. We feel that the State allowed the communal beasts one complete day to play the havoc. Gujraat has a history of bearing the most communal atmosphere in the State. It has again shown the dreadful face to the whole nation. We demand to dismiss the Gujraat Govt. immediately. 3. The riots are spreading like a fire in the woods. It is therefore not wrong to say that the riot is a State Sponsored Terrorism. The BJP has shed the mask. Its hidden agenda is now exposed. In many areas the Police present on the scenes did not take any action against the arsonists and the murderers. 4. The protests made to the President in the matter have not yielded any result. It is because the Pres. of India under the Constitution has no power to act suo-moto. He is bound by the recommendations of the P.M. The PM and the Home Min. belong to the BJP who is also heading the State Govt. in Gujraat. However, the Sangh Pariwar may not amend its ways until the Indian masses reject them gradually from every State in the next elections. We should therefore¿¿¿¿.. We should immediately file a Writ Petition in the Supreme Court for the dismissal of the Union and the State Govts. and seeking relief for the oppressed people. The Petitions should be filed from various cities in the country. We should also request the NDA parties who are partners of the BJP in the Govt. in the Center to withdraw their support to the BJP immediately. We express our deep satisfaction on humanity prevailing in some parts of Ahmedabad where Hindu families protected Muslim neighbours by shifting them in their own homes. We are all praiseful to the Media, Print as well the Electronic for keeping the flag flying high of the integrity and justice fearlessly with a determined boldness. We heartily praise the Secular Parties for launching their strong protests. Unfortunately, MPs. Ms. Shabana Azmi and Mr. Raj Babbar were not allowed to visit the riot-torn areas in the State. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 119 of 5400 ) From Suresh Prabhu The articles about the Police indifference to the riots in Gujarat, though very disturbing is not by any means either new, or unique to the BJP ruled states. The police has been blamed earlier too ( Meerut, for eg.was infamous for the Rapid Action Force ). In many ways, Gujarat has been caused by Police inefficiency. First, intelligence gathering did not predict either the Godhra incident, or its aftermath. Earlier, the police did nothing to stop incitment of religious sentiments for Ayodhya. It did not stop the (sometimes violent) build-up to temple construction in Ayodhya. It did not , for eg., prevent ticket less travellers travelling to Ayodhya. And now, it needs POTO to make arrests! Are the number of those arrested in each religion, proportionate to those killed in the other? ( a gruesome question, but needs to be asked) The police has done precious little to prevent itself from being called prejudiced. Whether this strange behaviour was the result of understaffing, lack of proper equipment, lack of training, lack of motivation, political interference, or (frighteningly), a racial bias within the police fraternity, will no doubt become a matter of study in the years to come. I suggest we take the following steps :- 1.) Form a cell within the central government specialising in communal problems, to co ordinate the rapid deployment of armed forces and make it mandatory on the part of affected governments to call upon the cell whenever communal killings are reported. 2.) Encourage proportionate representation for the muslims within the police. 3.) Devote money ,time and energy for efficient intelligence gathering ,and training in Mob - handling techniques. 4.) Award courageous police officers who are reported to have prevented communal carnages ( as in war). Conversely, punish ( severely ) policemen who are guilty of not having attended to pleas for help. ( for eg., whoever was called by the muslim MP, Jaffri, who was killed, must be taken to task.) |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 120 of 5400 ) From Majid Khan (Events which led to the burning out of the compartments of Sabarmati Express at Godhra). Last Wednesday's attack on an Indian train in which extremists of the right-wing Hindu nationalist party, the VHP (Vishwa Hindu Parishad) and their families were burned to death was sparked off by their abduction of a Muslim girl. The passengers were riding in three compartments (called bogeys) of the Sabarmati Express and heading for Ayodhya to join a gathering of fellow kar sevaks (volunteer workers) who have pledged to build a temple on the site of the demolished Babri Mosque (built by the first Moghul emperor Babar in the 16th century). The story begins not in Godhra but in a town called Daahod, some 70-75 km away. At around 5:30-6:00 a.m. the train reached Daahod railway station. Here, the kar sevaks initiated an argument with a Muslim stallholder who had served them tea and snacks before destroying his stand. The stallholder filed a complaint at the local police station but the kar sevaks proceeded on the train to the next stop, Godhra. At about 7.00- 7.15am the train reached Godhra railway station. All the kar sevaks came out from their reserved compartments have refreshments at the small tea stall on the platform owned by an elderly Muslim and his employee. The kar sevaks started a quarrel with this stallholder too. While beating him and pulling his beard they are reported to have repeatedly shouted the slogan: "Mandir Ka Nirmaann Karo, Babur Ki Aulad ko Baahar Karo" (Start the construction of the temple, throw out the sons of Babar). Hearing the chaos, the stallholder's 16 year-old daughter came to intervene. She pleaded with the kar sevaks to stop beating her father and leave him alone. The kar sevaks the carried off the young girl to the train and locked her inside one of the reserved compartments (S-6). As the train started to move out of Godhra with the elderly man banging on the compartment doors, two stall vendors jumped onto the last bogey of the moving train and pulled the emergency stop chain to halt the train. The train came to a standstill about one kilometre away from the railway station. The two Muslim stallholders pleaded unsuccessfully with the kar sevaks to release their captive. Hearing all the chaos, people in the vicinity ran towards the train. When they asked the kar sevaks to let the girl go they responded by closing the carriage windows. This infuriated the crowd who began to pelt the bogey with stones. The compartments on either side of S-6 also contained kar sevaks of the V.H.P, many of whom descended from the train and used the bamboo sticks from their banners to attack the assembled crowd. The crowd retaliated. Some young men ran off to bring diesel and petrol from trucks and rickshaws standing at the nearby garages in Signal Fadia (a place in Godhra) and torched the compartments. After hearing about this incident, members of the V.H.P (Vishwa Hindu Parishad) living in the area went on the rampage burning down the garages in Signal Fadia and the Baddshah Masjid at Shehra Bhagaaad. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 121 of 5400 ) From Madhu Agrawal BJP has lost every moral right to remain in power by adopting pseudo-secular character like all other Indian political parties. If BJP would have been in opposition, it would have reacted sharply in the desired manner on the barbaric murder of VHP kar-sevaks in Godra (Gujraat) through burning them alive in train by miscreants from Muslim community. Union NDA government headed by shameless BJP could not react earlier also on hardships faced by Bangladeshi Hindus after change of government in that country. Like our several former Prime Ministers, BJP Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee also tried, fortunately in vane, for a Noble Peace Prize by putting national defense on stake through his `peace¿ efforts by making first a much-publicized Lahore bus-trip, and then welcoming the Kargil-killer Parvez Musharraf to provoke anger amongst family members of our brave martyrs who lost lives in Kargil war only due to failure of Bajpayee government in assessing Pakistan. Dishonest and immoral BJP leaders are well aware that they can never-never return to power, and as such are trying to retain their government to mint maximum money possible for their future generations. Ordinary BJP workers and NDA allies should wake up to disassociate from BJP which has to sink due to their deceiving attitude towards Hindu majority. Now with most political parties including even BJP are pseudo-secular to please Muslims at cost of Hindus, Shiv Sena is duty-bound to attract ordinary BJP workers to emerge as a force to defend Hindu sentiments and self-respect. Otherwise with disturbing population balance in India, Hindus are definitely to become a minority to gradually vanish! |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 122 of 5400 ) From John Dayal Jan Morcha, edited by Sheetla Prasad, is a Hindi daily published from Ayodhya, Uttar Pradesh. The paper carried the following story on the 25th of Feb. 2002. The events described below took place 2 days before the gruesome burning of the train at Godhra in Gujarat The following is a English rendering of the report Bajrang Dal Activists on Sabarmati Express beat up Muslims, Forcing them to shout Jai Shri Ram Slogans. Bhelsar (Faizabad), 24 February By Our Correspondent). Bajrang Dal workers armed with trishuls (tridents) , travelling to Ayodhya on board the Sabarmati Express this morning, let loose a reign of terror upon dozens of helpless Muslim passengers, Burqa clad women and innocent children. They also targeted the people waiting at the platform, forcing them to shout slogans of Jai Shri Ram, A few even declared themselves to be Hindus in order to escape their wrath. According to eyewitnesses, close to 2000 Trishul carrying Bajrang Dal workers, on board the Sabarmati express coming from the direction of Lucknow, began indulging in these activities from the Daryabad Station. Any one identified as a Muslim, on the train, was mercilessly attacked with Trishuls and beaten with iron rods. Even women and innocent children were not spared. Burqas were pulled off, women were beaten with iron rods and were dragged, people waiting at the platform were also similarly targeted. This continued between the Daryabad and Rudauli Stations. According to an eyewitness, a youth who protested against this barbarism was thrown off the train between the Patranga and Rojagaon Stations. Several women, badly wounded and covered in blood, jumped off the train as it pulled into Rudauli around 8 a.m. The Bajrang Dal activists also got off the train and started attacking those that they identified as Muslims from among those present at the platform. Ata Mohammad from Takia Khairanpur waiting to catch a train to Allahabad was badly beaten, some others were forced to shout 'Jai Shri Ram' some escaped by declaring that they were Hindus. 50-year-old Mohd. Absar lives near the station; he was grabbed as he stepped out of his house his long beard was rudely pulled before he was repeatedly stabbed with trishuls. Another man from the Rudauli Police Station area who happened to be at the station was badly beaten with Iron Rods. Local residents rang up the police. By the time the Bhelsar Police station chief) , arrived at the station the train had left and the injured were being rushed to the hospitals. No report was registered at the Police station since the Officer-in Charge was unavailable. The injured have no idea why they were attacked. Rumours are rife. The people are petrified; respected Hindus and Muslims of the area have condemned the shameful attack, Muslims religious leaders have appealed for peace and requested that there be no retaliation. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 123 of 5400 ) From Haris Hamid VHP , BAJRANG DAL - MESSENGER"S OF PEACE !!! The NDA government had a million reasons to ban SIMI and offcourse nobody has second Opinions about the decision. Now,not only India but the whole world has seen what the VHP and BAJRANG DAL Are capable of, they have managed to bring the state of Gujarat to a standstill for 4 continous Days, burnt enough people alive to show they are true barbarians with prehistoric ideals and thoughts, burnt enough industries in Gujarat.The achievements of VHP and Bajrang Dal are: 1) frighten and terrorize minorties. 2) Destruction of the properties of the minorties. 3) Burning of industries ,hence affecting the country's economy. 4) Bringing the whole state of Gujarat to a grinding halt 5) Black-mailing the government to achieve its goals. 6) Help to develop communal tension and communal hatred. These achievements of VHP and Bajrang -dal are sufficient enough for any government to ban these organizations. Is our PM manly and courageous enough to ban these organizations. More importantly the hindus have to decide wether they to be represented by these Barbaric orgnizations or not !! NRI - hindu 's all over the world are the main financial Resources for these barbarians and time has come to think twice before they post their Next check. The one positive aspect of this gruesome incident is that the whole world has seen the a chievements of VHP and Bajrang -dal and will agree it is a hindu fundamentalist organization worth banning !!! |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 124 of 5400 ) From Prasoon Dutta who was the man in cover photo of your magazine? isn't he the same one who brandishes ak 47 and cries for jehad in lahore, kandahar,and palestine? i think he is among the same breed of those ugly, and dangerous pests which are infecting the crops of humanity all over the world. we need a really good pesticide to tackle them. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 125 of 5400 ) From Saurabh Katial the train burning incident was a shameful act against innocents and totally unjustified. we need to get out of the self created web of secular justifications. loss of human lives is a big blow and not an equation to settle previous frustrations. having said that ,I must also add that efforts should be directed by all the communities including the victimized community to stop the riots and massive killings as violence is no solution for any kind of problems. to further abate the violence the VHP must show a flexible attitude though and wait for the supreme court order. it is ironical that the world community condemns pakistan on state sponsored terrorism against us to settle political issues between the two countries and we resort to violence in internal affairs to make our point. but above all it is a sad story that the leaders of our country use such tragedies for their political benefits and ignore the interests of the nation. the demand of the opposition to remove Mr. NARENDRA MODI is totally unjust. I would like to ask them whether they would have been in a better position if their government had been in place in GUJARAT. there is a definite need to bring sanity into the political affairs. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 126 of 5400 ) From Saurabh Katial he recent statement made by Mr. narayan modi that the Gujarat riots was a case of Newton 's law of 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction' were in bad taste. in such circumstances it is essential to maintain communal harmony . these incidents were a great loss of human lives irrespective of any religion and cannot be and should not be equated as mere statistics or any kind of equation. I think the state government should do all to restore calm back in Gujarat. Mr. NARAYAN MODI should take back his statement . I think Newton law applies here. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 127 of 5400 ) From Lakkaji You have written an elaborate detail events happening right from the train being stopped till army getting in to prevent any more damages. What you did not dare say, just as much as most of so called "Secularists" are with their tail wrapped between their legs, is Who started it all. When you can boldly write about VHP, RSS and all those elements, you are not bold enough to be equally detailed and factual about who were those miscreants who stopped the train and came in such huge numbers to lock people in the train compartment and inhumanly burn them!!!! With people like you India can never return to normalcy. We can never be truly secular in decades to come. If you are not capable enough to collect facts to place before people..please do not attempt to write such articles. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 128 of 5400 ) From ramesh on what basis does the columnist call the rioters VHP activists? casting aspersions on modi for being a "RSS man" is both devious and seeks to re-invent the incident.indian journos can write about the "understandable" anger of muslims over the demolition of babari masjid or taunts but are unable to find simillar parallels as reasons for these riots. at no stage have known VHP activists e.g. the karsevaks in ayodhya or any other assembly of people which can be demonstrably shown to be VHP affiliated shown to be involved in these riots. i'm not building a case for the VHP because some of their policies seem contrary to hindu thought to me,some other points they make seem justified to me as well such as the institutionalised bias against hinduism in the media and the stance that is considered politically correct.A person who has a humanistic approach will not reveal this bias and psuedo-intellectuals with limited ability to look at history as it is unfolding in a wholistic way will.It seems our opinion makers want to establish themselves as having "secular" credentials by voicing opinions that go against the grain of the majority rather than pursuing the examination of events on the basis of what they can truthfully ascertain.the mob that attacked the sabarmati was most definately not a spontaneous gathering,yet no one in the indian media has reffered to them as muslim activists.You may get the kudos of simillarly biased self proclaimed intellectuals in the country but this glorification of biases is exactly what is slowly eroding the patience and forbearance that the hindu community is justifiably known for. Your ability to report and draw inference is a joke and one of the causes for this polarization of india on the basis of religion.you are part of the problem and in no way at all are you bringing the solution and reconciliation to light.Hang your head in shame self appointed defenders of the "truth",you are making yourselves increasingly irrelavant to the vast majority of your country.by the way before i go:no i do NOT condone the killing of any of us who belong to any faith,i do not want the emphasis of any one religion or culture over others but i DO find the art of spin disgusting especially when it trivialises gruesome deaths or mass aspirations. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 129 of 5400 ) From Shubhranshu Patnaik In re: Soft Saffron's Litmus Test I have for long been a reader of Prem Shankar Jha's columns and was terribly shocked with this particular article. The last thing the nation and the people need at the moment is to apportion blame. A nation can survive several external threats and war, but what it cannot survive is disrespect for the law of the land. What happened at Godhra was the most dastardly act possible and the perpetrators need to be brought swiftly to justice. Mr.Jha is quick to recognise this but unfortunately goes beyond and gives the impression that the maddenning and irrational moment at Godhra is somehow more important and condemnable than the acts which followed across the whole of Gujarat. If the act at Godhra was preplanned, so were the actions which followed that abjectly horrifying action. What makes the later even worse is the deliberate display of impotence from a state government, which was supposed above all to protect the people it represents. Let us hope calm returns to Gujarat. It has done irrepairable damage to the reputation of the country and has the potential of re-writing the history of India with blood and carnage. The least that learned journalists and intellectuals can do is to focus the attention of the media on the deficiencies in our response, so that pressure is brought to bear on the administration to act in the right vein. We do not want them to speak the language of politicians. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 130 of 5400 ) From asif sultan In re: 200+ On The Human Richter This is surely an hour of shame for us all Indians, particularly to those of us who thought that we are living in a civilised society. The ghastly incidents of preceding week in which hundreds of Indians lost their lives, are to be condemned in unequivocal terms. When Atal Behari Vajpayee said he doesn¿t want Muslim votes, perhaps he meant, he doesn¿t even want Muslims in India. They should have believed him when had declared that he was a swayamsewak first and foremost. The replay of the Delhi Sikh Riots, in such a sinister manner in Gujarat, from the delibrate delay in calling army to the partisan attitude of the police , was deplorable. It shakes the very trust of muslims in the Indian state, especially in the light of the deafening and pregnant silence of our Home minister. A pertinent question which arises is that if a SIMI member indulges in criminal activity he is labelled ISI agent and anti national, but what about the the criminal activity of Bajrang Dal and VHP activists, who go about wielding swords and lynching people. The matters have touched such a low, that Narendra Modi criticises only Godhara incident and then goes on to justify the burning of whole family of ex- congress MP. Are some of us more Indian, than rest of us Indians. |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 131 of 5400 ) From Laxminath I think it's high time now that we make these muslims believe that they cannot dictate terms at the cost of Hindus.We all very well know that partition of India was purely based on religion. And I am really proud of all my muslim brothers who stayed back in India. They enjoy lot of freedom here than in Pakisthan. Thanks to our ugly politicians that they can even openly badmouth Hindus and Hinduism. The situation has come to a position where Hindus are being critised if they talk about Hinduism . But on the contrary if a muslim freely expresses his religion of faith or badmouth Hinduism , he won't be critised. Even these ugly politicians and insane media as redifined word Secularism. Secularism now means you can badmouth Hinduism and praise those muslims who badmouth it. What a pity? Why cannot these muslims understand that they can never confront with Hindus in India. Why cannot they understand the feelings of their fellow Hindus? Why cannot they understand and agree with the Hindus that there should be Ram temple there? Muslims have Mecca. For Hindus , Ayodhya is as important as Mecca to Muslims. It's supposedly a birth place of Lord Ram. Why cannot they just think good and reach some agreement with Hindus? Muslims cannot really confront Hindus in India. They were just fortunate that Hindus are more resilient, more understanding that they are not doing any harm to them. But believe me if you test the patience of 80% population of Hindus, then muslims have to be reminded of another Bosnia in India!! I am proud of Islam. I am proud of my Muslim brothers. But it's not the way to behave with Hindus in India. Everybody knows that it's the Muslim commnunity that started commnunal flare up in Gujarat. I am sad that many muslims were now being killed because of retaliation from Hindus. Why cannot Muslims be practical? You don't have political power in India. You don't have financial power in India. That means you really cannot do anything in India. It's only our good sense that allowed you to live freely all these 50 years. Still you want to be ignorant with the belief that you can do anything you want?!! Wake up! India has real good problems to tackle, not these communal tensions. India has to tackle the problems of illiteracy, corruption, over population. So, let's all unite and face these changes. Muslims really has the chance now to show that they can also contribute good to our country by resolving this issue of Mandir-Masjid. Already you are facing crisis now that your religion is being equalled with terrorism at the international level. So, it's a kind of last oppurtunity for muslims to show that their religion is really a good religion. Otherwise it will become a lost oppurtunity for them |
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Admin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 132 of 5400 ) From Sudhakar Upadhyaya In re: Soft Saffron's Litmus Test A good article with some good facts. But unfortunately, the author is trying to say that it is always the Hindus who are responsible for these kind of communal clashes, which is blatently untrue. Arent Hindus tired of all these fightings? The author seems to say NO, which doesnt make any sense. In out country, the politicians have made it look so that its a crime to be born as a Hindu. No-one supports us and thats why we have this situation in hand. When we have nobodys support, we got to take care of ourselves and that is what the Hindus are doing in India right now. But yes, the solution suggested by the author is perfect. We need to learn to co-exist. Its 21st century guys, we got to move past all these! |
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ihatepak 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 133 of 5400 ) All the murderers in GODHRA and AHMEDABAD must be given capital punishment. India can do well without them. If we hang those animals , others will have a lesson too. Lets not forget , murderers are murderers first , then Hindu, Muslim , Sikh or Christian. All the murderers deserve the severest punishment. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 134 of 5400 ) What is even more galling than all the godhra murders and the ensuing riots is that fact that Indian press seems to think that hindus lives are worth nothing and those of muslims are worth their weight in votes to the opposition parties. I have not seen such blatant anti-hindu bigotry in a long time. These Indian journos should have been the ones burnt alive instead of the poor folks in godhra and elsewhere. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 135 of 5400 ) To all the muslims who seem to complain about feeling "insecure", they need to get the brains to understand that if they want wilfilly antagonize the hindus and expect the government to protect them from atrocities against hindus, then they better think again. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 136 of 5400 ) A terrible atrocity took place at Godhra. As a nation we should have come together, hunted down the killers, provided compensation to the dead and injured. Instead, a second and even more terrible atrocity was created in Ahmedabad. The BJP goverment at the state level, the VHP activists (clearly indentified in many press reports including the NYTimes http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/05/international/asia/05INDI.html ) all collaborated in this second atrocity. It should be clear now that the VHP and its allies do not care anything at all for India as a country and a society. They care only for their agenda. As an NRI I will work to make sure that, like Hamas, VHP-USA is listed as a terrorist organization, its tax-exempt status withdrawn. We will publicize in our local newspapers the activities of the VHP in the Ahmedabad killings. We will identify where the VHP offices are located so demonstrations can take place. We will make sure that the whole world understands the true face of the VHP. |
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Duryodhn 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 137 of 5400 ) PMishraji, Don't act like you ain't a Moron. Like you are going to do stuff against VHP. First of all REMOVE YOur name MISHRA which stinks of Brahmaniac Subjugation of whatever is good. You and your brahmin goons are responsible for the killings. So dont be a Moron yourself, please change your name and come. Its not that diff, i can suggest you a lawyer for that. yet Another Brahmin Imposter!! |
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MyIndia 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 138 of 5400 ) Whatever happened in Godhra last week must be preplaned. it is the worst and ruthless work done by the MONSTERS of the 21st Century. they must be punished not just by capital punishment but by the people of both Hindus and Muslims who have become victims of the riots. these types of riots are blame and blackspots on our Motherland India. we cannot afford these riots both economically and socially. I am proud of Mr. Narendra Modi who has done marvelous job at his position to crush this communal violence. I am a Gujarati, and I should say that those opposition leaders who are demanding resignation of Mr. Modi and his government should look on their sides that what they could do to stop this kind of situation. look at your past oh bloodyfools, you have done nothing for any of the Gujarati people and that's why you are not the rulling government now. Aside from politics, I have a message for my dear Gujarati residents that this violence will not affact much to any of the politicians, nor to any Gundas who starts this, but it will affact the most to just a Regular person, doesn't matter he or she is Hindu or Muslim. So, please "Just Stop!!" Let the Gujarat live. Nature brought the worst Earthquake to the land, and now it is the time to get recovered from it, not to participate in riots and make it the worst. |
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umuhajir 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 139 of 5400 ) It seems in India we have learned nothing from history... just as the Weimar Republic was on its last days too feeble to take on the Nazi Party, for over a decade now first the Congress Party and now the BJP (the national party) have shown themselves utterly spineless when it comes to dealing with fascist organizations that openly boast of violating the law and of indulging in violence... The violence in Gujarat is simply the icing on the cake-- but we should not ignore other, disturbing indications: the Valentine's Day hooliganism, the destruction of the Singhania Hospital by the Shiv Sena, etc. etc. |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 140 of 5400 ) There has been an increasing consensus here that muslims and there qualities-fundamentalism and separatism- are the root cause of the internal conflicts and other ills of our nation.Their suppression or expulsion from the nation(another partition) will be the panacea.Well, this is a disasterous MISCONCEPTION.I repaeat(as in my first message) that the problem is not communal but eonomic-excess of population over resources.India is an overpopulated country with mass poverty,illetracy,ignorance and gross disparity in wealth distribution.The bulk of the population which is left behind in the process of development feels relatively deprived.This segment in turn doesnt let the elite live peacefully and to have their own way. Thus there is a general resentment and frustration in all the sections. People need to vent this out.This leads to the formations of "ingroups" and "otgroups" of which the weaker (numerically,economically or socially) becomes the target of ventout anger.Right now the outgroup is the muslims and the ingroup the hindus.The latter being meticulously formed after long drawn efforts of the sangh parivar.Believe me,there wont be even a miniscular difference in india`s condition by flushing out the muslims.The conflict will remain as intense as now.Only the boundaries of ingroups and outgroups will be rearranged.On the major level there will be conflict between SAVARNS and AVARNS.Do i need to remind you mayawati`s slogan-TILAK,TARAZOO AUR TALWAR INKO MARO JUTEY CHAR.This is just the tip of the iceberg.There are deepseated fragments on all lines.There will be conflict between the BRAHMINS and the BANIYAS.And at the topmost level there will be power struggle between the ingroups withinn brahmins-the sanadyas, the kanyakopjas,saryupaaris etc.At the lowermost level the innumerable SCs,STs and OBCs will fight on caste lines.Now you might think that inspite of these conflicts there will be atleast no threat to the security and integrity of the country since ISI cant work in the absence of muslims here.Well friends,in the presence of disparity,resentment and frustration,any section can play in the hands of a foreign organisation.ISI will still find fertile grounds here-among the SC/ST/OBC section,the MCC of east india,the separatists of north east etc.Do you think that the terrorism in punjab would have thrived without the assistance of ISI? The need of the hour is to build inner strength by bringing about even development and promoting tolerence,plurality and meritocracy.These are the keywords for progress.These are some principles which has turned USA into what it is today.Intolerance and supression were ingrained in the USSR`s model of dovelepment which ultimately proved out to be unsustainable.Population control,literacy and overall social welfare shall be the prime task of the government.Corruption has to be strictly checked so that all the goverment schemes are implemented properly.Remember-SATYAMEV JAYATE. |
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nsb2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 141 of 5400 ) I applaud Mr. Mishra's proposed endeavor. As for Mr. Karapall and Mr. "Duryodhn" (at least get the spelling right) they probably would have relished participating in the riots (if they haven't already). Their troglodyte culture and terrorist desires speaks volumes of their frustration, ignorance, and low self-esteem. It is shocking that anyone would justify the killing of innocent people. The basic premise of the law is innocent until proven guilty. Sadly enough, law and order escape their lexicons. Barbarism is the outlet for their expression. According to these individuals "Hindu" and "Muslim" are akin to the periodic table of elements wherein the classification is based on fundamental properties of the element. How ignorant and apallingly stupid! So Mr. Karpall and Mr. "Duryodhn" (Geez, calling yourself a Hindu, but ignorant of the great Indian epic!) we give a rat's ass about what you think. |
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goyal 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 142 of 5400 ) Pmishra2 1. If you love your India so much...how come you are an NRI and profess such hate for an organization trying to change things in India. Pack up your bags ....go to India....then change things....if there is a hypocrite.... it is in the mirror in front of you every morning. 2. You seem to find fault with everyone except the perpetrators and supporters of the mass killing (guess who has manipulated the Muslim vote the longest and the most)......add idiot to that. 3. Now that you consider the VHP as a terrorist organization and have it banned in the US...wish you all the best...With Indians like you who needs enemies...Mishraji you have...as they say..gone bananas.... I don't think the VHP needs to worry about a hypocritical idiot gone bananas...May the force be with you... |
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aks123 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 143 of 5400 ) I read comments from lots of people and felt a deep sense of pain in what had happened in Gujarat. But lets look at the begining and think. When India and Pakistan fight..even if Pakistan started the fight...it is India which is asked to restrain. Why??? because it is always the smaller one that you like to sympathise with. Same case here even though the whole burning of train was done by the muslim community...Hindu's were asked to restrain. Why ??? because they are the minority..and what is the big loss of if you loose few people from the majority community. I feel people are just not looking at the problem. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 144 of 5400 ) jatt and rj, you imbecile morons. you fucked up nincompoops. dont comment on my religion. i will chop your heads off u cowards. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 145 of 5400 ) the temple at ayodhya will be built at all costs. everyone opposing it should be killed. my temple was destroyed and a mosque was built over it. now the mosque is destroyed and i will build my temple over it. there is no compromise. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 146 of 5400 ) jatt, you imbecile bastard, let me educate your stupid brain. the killings are not aresult of a temple being built. it is a result of hindus being cursed with people like you. your secular friends in the congress and those bengali communists are the reason. these cowardly motherfuckers dont know how to come to power except by sucking muslim dick. they either suck sonia gandhis cunt or talk about secularism. pure unadulterated non-sense. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 147 of 5400 ) jatt motherfucker, listen to me and clean that brain of yours. the reason we are having trouble in india is because the muslims are hell bent about creating trouble. in 1947 the same thing happened. you do not need the VHP or the RSS or tyhe bajrang dal for these anti-national motherfuckers. they will never change, they will always misbehave until all the hindus are killed. if we did not have cowardly bastards like you india could have gotten a new start in 1947. did you know you imbecile that muslim pakistan has killed more muslims in bangladesh and baluchistan and sindh than all of india in all communal riots put together. muslim pakistan has killed a million muslims since 1947. wake up you fucking imbecile and if you are a true hindu fight for your motherfucking rights. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 148 of 5400 ) rj you fucked up imbecile let me ask you about this. what do you think of mohammad who had scores of wives, a pedophile who fucked a 6 year old girl. was he worthy of leading a world religion. was he a male chauvanist too. what do you think of the muslim men who canhave 4 wives but not vice versa. are all muslims PCPs. answer me you bitch. |
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vsharma 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 149 of 5400 ) Godhra "MASSACRE" triggered Naroda "GENOCIDE" Unequivocally I condemn the barbaric slaughtering and burning of thousands of innocent muslim civilians by the HINDU TERRORISTS of BJP, RSS, VHP and Bajrang Dal. In the same vein I condemn the train pogrom by the muslim extremist elements. "MASS MURDERERS" Narendra Modi, Advani, Ashok singhal, MM Joshi should not go unpunished. I also fail to accept Vajpayee as the leader of brahmins as he represents shame and symbolises barbarism. I am sure all the brahmins think this way. I call upon my hindu brethern to stop this hate campaign unleashed by these hindu terrorists or take my word, India will go Afghanistan way. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 150 of 5400 ) I agree with "globy" in hi/her last message! The major problem within india is economic depravity. Where there strong economic success and foundation, e.g U.S.A, there will be more communal harmony atleast on the peripheral. One not need to look at the hearts of each man and woman. A society is judged on it's collective actions and not in the ideals they may or may not uphold. India needs strong leadership and not *ussyfooting. We need MAJOR, MAJOR ECONOMIC GROWTH IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS IF WE ARE GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS OF ILLITRECY, POVERTY, CORRUPTION ET AL. Once there is satisfaction in these areas, the community and society does not feel the urge to take up arms and act like savages; economic security and stability is the key. BUT FIRST LET'S CONTROL OUR EVER GROWING POPULATION AND MAKE WISE POLICIES IN THE PARLIAMENT THAT WILL SHAPE THE FUTURE OF OUR BELOVED NATION |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 151 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate luwmann has just exposed himself. He is another of those mushrooming lower middlle class hindus who have freshly come out of the saffron assembly line production unit of the RSS-sarasvati shishu mandirs.These people are typically either maharashtrians,baniyas,sindhis or SCs.They are always eager to show their hindu credentials and so shout the loudest for the religion.Just like the zeal of a newly convert.They are a liability to the nation. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 152 of 5400 ) "ashishs" i agree that luwmann is provocative and hateful at times. but put into perspective. if you did not have an acid with a pH of 1, then what would be strong enought to neutralize an alkali with a pH of 14?? Let him do his talking, its part of the flow. it's what you get in this society, you gotta live with! |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 153 of 5400 ) Rj, You speak about Lord Ram as if you are an expert on that subject. But what you said about Lord Ram only shows how ignorant you are. Actually you are one of those persons who speake bombastic english words and consider themselves to be intellectuals. Actually the original Ramayana written by Valmiki dated 7000 B.C. ended when the victorious Rama returned from Lanka. Then after 4000 years of the original Ramayana, in 3000 B.C. the Uttara Ramayana was written which has the continuing story. At this point the Ramayana was reduced from an epic to another drama to be played in courts and streets. So whatever you said of Lord Rama being a chauvinist is not factually correct. Please do a little research on any topic before blurting it out like an ignoramus. |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 154 of 5400 ) There is a strong opinion that hindus have been tolerating the muslim misdemeanours in their own nation for a long time so now its time to teach them(muslims) a lesson.I shall remind here that tolerance is the key to existence and progress.This is what the shastras teach us. It is b`coz of this tolerance that inspite of having a diverse population of 1 billion(majority being poor and illiterate), india not only resisted fragmentation but progressed to a reasonable extent.Without tolerance we would have been another afghanistan or yugoslavia.There is a tendency to compare the treatment of minorities in pakistan vis-a-vis india and then abusing india`s softness in dealing with the minorities.Why dont these people see that where pakistan stands today? We have left it far behind in almost every aspect of development.Is your ideal pakistan or USA (which promotes plurality and tolerence within)? |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 155 of 5400 ) i applaud your views "aks123" The casualities in the weeker(or numerically smaller) section is always highlighted.During the british rule thousands of indians were killed fighting for independence and a handful of britishers also used to get killed at times.At that time the british people didnt cry that look nobody is talking about the british casualities and that the press is biased etc etc.Similary in israel-palestine conflict at least 10 israelis are killed for every 200 palestinians.same with the case with US military adventures around the world.The responsibility always lies with the stronger one. |
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Calive 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 156 of 5400 ) It was Congress government in power in India, when a blunder was made by demolishing sacred Babri Mosque. The home minister, L.K. Advani was leading the procession that time when communal hindus - a huge gathering assembled and demolished the structure. the hindu people claim that the Lord Ram was born here then the muslims - mughal emperors demolished the temple in the olden days and made a mosque. The government should take stern action against the guilty ones. But how is it possible when the main guilty the present home minister and other leaders were in the scene. It is a black spot on the Indian democracy as India always cried for largest symbol of democracy in the world. but I think it is confined to ink and paper only. The vajpayee should resign only then the minority community in India knows that he had pain in his heart. The height of the things are that the police itself remain mute spectator and allowed the communal hindus to loot and arson. What a democracy it it. |
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Calive 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 157 of 5400 ) After the Godhra incident, Vajpayee did not act like a leader. He should have taken stern action against the guilty.but instead, he with the connivance of other central leaders remained mute spectator. This will definitely perish the BJP government at the center. Such incidents in the largest democracy in the world - in India are not new in its kind as one can witness the ruthless killing of innocents in Kashmir . I visited there in 1995 and recorded interviews of various youths who have been tortured and released half dead. About two lakh innocent people have been butchered and thousands of women raped. Is this a democracy. |
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Calive 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 158 of 5400 ) The BJP government always remained anti-employee so far as the increase in D.A. etc. is concerned. In the beginning, when BJP hold the reigns of at center, it announced 10% D.A. to central govrnment employees. but after that merely 1% and 2% has been increased. Besides, the BJP Govt. has proposed to abolish about 12000 posts and surplus about 45000 employees. The BJP govt. is going against its slogan "Gareebi Ko Hatao" - "Gareeboon Ko Hatawoo". Vajpayee is at present in dillemma as on one hand he is trying to grip firmly the power at center and on the other he is crushing the minority community in India. Indian people does not know the pain of killings of muslims in Kashmir so far, now they might have thought that they can be targetted anytime. The leaders of VHP and RSS have now announced that they will build the ram temple strcutre outside the demolished babri mosque land and the disputed land will remain intact without any structure. I think this cannot be acceptable to muslims. the best solution is that the Rem Temple may be built somewhere else and the Babri Mosque may be rebuilt at the same place. |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 159 of 5400 ) A major section of hindus feel that we have been too soft vis-a-vis the barbaric muslims.Lets ponder upon some of our softness.Ever since the later vedic period the hindu psyche is driven by caste distinctions and supression."MANUSMRITI" is the guiding force.Apart from other disabilities and crualities it inflicted on the SHUDRAS,the book gives some really "barbaric" guidelines to follow.For example- if a brahmin is chanting a shlok in front of other brahmin and if a shudra passing by happens to hear that shlok by mistake then he shall be caught and molten lead be poured into his ears. Is it not better to kill some one in typical barbaric muslim way than to torture and supress him to animal like life all throughout his life(for centuries)? DHOL,GAWAR,SHUDRA AUR NARI YAH SAB TARAN KE ADHIKAARI......hats off to this soft attitude. |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 160 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava ...hey HT farzee 'smart'... :), ...the last kHushwant column... Sat 2nd March HT, proof de mistake-e-aazam... in the line... iss liye a sharief insaanoN... instead of 'Jang Taltii rahey toh behtar hey... it is the other way around... disastrously... HT printed 'jang chalti rahey toh behtar hey' ... let's see if someone bother to inform ya and u corrected urself on the web edition... which tathagat is pretty sure that it would be unnoticed... meaning no one from IT would be reading it... checked it... it's the same as in print... :), looks even KHushi Babbar Sher doesn't know the disastrous mistake... !!! and one more thing... flexi time happened in early 40s in Europe last century... but this bhaiNs ka tabela (HT) prints TV programmes for only the waking hours de baaboo baboons... so unsmart... har shakH pe bajrangi baithey heiN... Restore India’s dignity : The unthinkable has happened in Gujarat By Prof Mushirul Hasan in IE Can secular India stand the heat? By Sidharth Bhatia in National Post Reaping the whirlwind By Amulya Ganguli in HT Hindu-Muslim Violence CS Monitor Coming apart at the seams By Sunanda K. Datta-Ray in IHT Eyewitness: Muslims under siege BBC Vajpayee's stark choice FT Published: March 4 2002 19:38 Last Updated: March 4 2002 19:39 Peter Popham: The myth of Ram's temple has become a licence to kill in India 'Muslim equals terrorist, Hindu nationalists tell each other; we have 140 million terrorists in our midst' A new formula at Krishi Expo: Cow (milk+urine+dung)= toothpaste By ARVIND JAYARAM & HIMANSHU GOENKA in IE |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 161 of 5400 ) ashishs, either you are an idiot or an ignoramuse or both. i am neither of those that you think i am. i am a secular giant and do not believe in religion per se. i am an agnostic. i visit all religious institutions. i take pride in india's composite culture. YOU SHOULD NOT BE BLIND TO TRUTH. india is secular because of the hindus not muslims. the day muslims gain the upper hand in india it will loose its secular credentials. muslims are communal by nature. their religion teaches them that. hindus are defined by caste loyalty, nothing else. look to 1947. untold violence erupted while the great apostle ganghi was around appeasing the muslims. nehru did the same after 1947. now the congress and the communists are at it. now the BJP is doing the same. our country will be destroyed my friend. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 162 of 5400 ) ashishs, did the communal trouble in india start with the VHP. NO. was there communal trouble in india before the ramjanmabhoomi movement. YES. Have you thought about this in detail. why was the somnath temple rebuilt. do you know that the qutb minar is built on a complex of temples. THIS is a fact. these issues are coming up not because the hindus are wanting to do it but because the muslims are continuing to misbehave in indpendent india as a group. they encourage separatism, disrespect for hindu culture, insult hindu ways of worship. i am not talking about ancient times. i am talking about NOW and today. establishing the theocratic states of pakistan and bangladesh are not communal - who are we all kidding. have all these idiotic hindu liberals lost their minds. NO. they atre fucking cowards who cannot call a spade a spade. suddenly instead of addressing the issue they turn to caste problems. that also exists and a subject for discussion, no doubt. they try to deflect the issue. the fact is muslims are communal to the core. thos menace has to be ruthlessly controlled. |
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maky 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 163 of 5400 ) Luvvmann, Here is your biggest supporter back. All said and done,all so called liberal Hindus have lost their mind.They are too blind to see the reason even after seeing horrific scenes of Godhra.No community can respond passively after such ghastly attack.Response was swift and fast.Muslims in Gujraat will not dare to do same again for another at least 10 years.1992-93 Bombay punished Muslims only after burning incident at Radhabai Chawl.They even after 10 years still don't dare to do it again.Thanks Bal Thackeray. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 164 of 5400 ) "calvin" -- you have lost your mind. please regroup! |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 165 of 5400 ) hindu bashing should be offered as courses in universities and colleges, i am sure a lotta people in india will be successful. |
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MyIndia 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 166 of 5400 ) My Dear PMishraji, i read your comments on declaring VHP as a terrorist organization. You sounds like a follower of Congress, or Samjwadi Party, which are both Anti-Hindus. I don't know but a lot of Hindus feel secured under VHP. The majority of Hindus know that there is no party in India except BJP who can give them strong hand in the Nation. see in the past. what congress has done, and see just in last six years where India has been brought by BJP. BJP might be a sister or child party of VHP and Sangh but it is not totally Anti-Hindu. even a follower of BJP let me tell you this, that I wish SP comes forward and can govern UP for next five years. The RAM Temple will not be built. because they don't care about Hindus, they will only care about Muslims. VHP doesn't react to anyone until it is provockated by some Anti-Social people. no doubt Innocents will loss their lives, because it's kind of a war. Besides, people in India, I don't know about in other country, don't care about anyone when they see their own children bruttally burnt without any fault. here i said about children. Children don't know the difference between Hindus and Muslims. In addition to that why VHP is harliner Hindu Party because they are following the rule of survival of the fittest. see just outside of INDIA, and count how many Muslims there are in the world, and how many Hindus. Why Israel govenrment retailates in hard manner because they know that if they don't than one by one there will not be any JEW left in the world. I myself think that happened in Godhra Express and afterward was totally disgusting, but remember one thing that RETALIATION WILL ALWAYS COST MORE LIVES IN ANY SITUATION, ANYWHERE!!!! I am an NRI, a Hindu, a citizen of India, and now as per me We just have to see what is in our future rather than blaming just one single party. Remember, "YOU CANNOT CLAP WITH JUST ONE HAND." |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 167 of 5400 ) The sense of insecurity prevailing amongst hindus (about muslims) & muslims (about hindus) is the root cause of all this destruction. Navin jindal has already set an example by ADOPTING NATIONALISM rather than religion. Let us all live by it!!! It's high time u fundamentalists regain ur mental balance and distinguish between fantasy and rality! Wake up folks!! For if u don't do so NOW, then it'll be too late... The WORLD is racing ahead. So it's high time u learnt that it's ECONOMIC PRESPERITY / WELL BEING that gives u "security", not fanaticism/vandalism/religion. So to all the people who lay their trust in VHP... that will be the end of India. Surely, VHP will build a temple for all u fanatics, but @ what cost? Bloodshed, destruction of property & infrastructure, huge economic loss, no more foreign investment, a totally tarnished image of India. Lets c if u fanatics will still sing the Ayodhya/VHP song after that! |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 168 of 5400 ) the casual and lazy habbit of lumping RSS, VHP, et al into one indistinguishable group is very very ludacris!! people don't even care to find out the principles of these various parties and what they stand for. they are so so quick to judge them from any random event they hear about. people, be more judicious in your approach, some of the works of RSS are truly comendable while some are not. |
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shabnam 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 169 of 5400 ) Mr. "Myindia" You mean to say that all the political power since independence have been concentrated in the hands of muslims and the BJP liberated hindus from muslim rule.Do you know about the negligible percentage of muslims in police,adminstration and the parliament?We have been kept backward by all the parties(particularly congress) so that we remain as a "votebank".We are eager to cotribute for the progress of the nation but we are not trusted for responsible posts.We condemn the terrorism in kashmir in strictest terms but still the muslims all over india are seen as unpatriotic.You seem to be an NRI from papua new gunea or any other remote pacific island where no outside news reaches. |
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uvwxyz 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 170 of 5400 ) BJP has started to follow the path of Israel at National level. The aim is kill the leaders of minorities in very systematic way. I request to my fellow brothers , please be careful before posting any message. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 171 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate luwmann, Why are you baffling me by sounding so much self contradictory? You say you are a secular giant and dont believe in any religion but your previous messages,particularly no.i44 and no.148 read exactly the opposite!!Dont argue just for the sake of arguement.Your religio-political analysis of indian scenario since 1947 is superficial and one sided.The one near perfect analysis i came across in this forum is from "globy"(mssg no.140).hats off to him/her.Read that thousand times.It will go a long way in shaking you out of your slumber and removing the saffron pair of glasses from over your eyes and brain.JAI HIND. |
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uvwxyz 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 172 of 5400 ) Secrete Mission Of BJP , RSS - http://www.webdunia.com/news/national/0203/06/1020306036_1.htm |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 173 of 5400 ) nsb2, So we have now moved on from communalism to elementary psychotherapy, eh?? Good show!! since you and your "secular" ilk seem to justify the deaths of hindus in Godhra with a "but they were just asking for it by going to Ayodhya" (this was the standard editorial response in most english newspapers), I find it amusing that you seem to have a problem when I dont particularly give a damn that all the muslims were slaughtered in response. Muslims ONLY understand the language of force and violence, as can be seen from the fact that they prefer to antagonize ALL hindus in India rather than hand over three mosque sites (out of 1000s) to the hindus. If they are itching for a confrontation, I am sure the hindus will oblige. I am neither a muslim nor a hindu, but I am staunchly against islamic barbarism whereever it is. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 174 of 5400 ) shabnam, Maybe we can trust you muslims more if you stop aiding and abetting paki terrorism all over India. So far, muslims have done little else than begrudge others for the fact that they have an abbysmal standard of living and prospects for improvement. Maybe if muslims had a couple of kids each, they would all have a better life, but that would mean they have to take responsibility for their own future like everybody else does.... |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 175 of 5400 ) ashishs, Care to be a bit more specific about your view of post-1947 history?? Or is this the usual "secular" flatulence that all the english-speaking middle-class dorks seem to love. |
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newlight 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 176 of 5400 ) I can't believe the level of sheer moronic hostility on this board. Me thinks the energy of the 'Save BHARAT brigade' would be better harnessed providing water/ electricity/ health/ food to our deprived millions. I guess it's just easier to froth at the mouth and go community bashing. At least it takes your mind off the real issues at hand. Oh well. |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 177 of 5400 ) RAVO "GLOBY".You are a genius.Your message shall be an eye-opener for all fanatics here.We indians can never think big.We are highly prejudiced against each other while servile to an outsider.We are prepared to fight each other at the drop of a hat.This is th tendency which the britishers exploited and now the US(for economic colonialism).I suggest everybody present here read globy`s message no.140 (provided u have brains to grip it) |
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mitra 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 178 of 5400 ) Current incidence in Gujaraat is an expression of long accumulated anger. Hindoos are all humans too. What about the attrocities done on Hindoos in the past ? How the media and all great armchair intellectuals could safely ignore and forget the recent incidence occured in Bangladesh immediately after Khalida Zia took charge? Are Hindoos in Bangladesh not human being or it is an incidence not to be taken into notice of ? How many of them openly voiced against? Mother and daughter were raped in the same room repeatedly .Mother forced to wach daughter being raped and vice versa. Our so-called intellectuals safely say that the incidence occured in a country outside our controll. What these psychophants did immediately after Godhra incidence ? NOTHING. They never estimated the massive reaction that could have taken shape .It was beyound their immagination. Because Hondoos had been contineously tolerating such barbaric act . Gentleman, I do not blame the Muslims. It is our so -called self styled half learned headless Intellectuall community in true sense responsible not only for Gujrat incidence but all previous carnages. How many died in Kashmir? Till now we are headlessly chasing for a Kashmir solution, forcing innocent jawans into the vally of death. Who are these jawans? Obviously sons of poor parents who could not provide comfortable life to their sons. Can these thieves in intellectual disguise send their own sons for safeguarding Kashmir? WHO IS THE REAL CULPRIT BEHIND KASHMIR TANGLE ? It is the time for SERIOUS thinking for all of us. Mitra S.K. P.S. Thanks to OutlookIndia for providing me to express my tiny thought. |
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mitra 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 179 of 5400 ) Current incidence in Gujrat is an expression of long accumulated anger. Hindoos are all humans too. What about the attrocities done on Hindoos in the past ? How the media and all great armchair intellectuals could safely ignore and forget the recent incidence occured in Bangladesh immediately after Khalida Zia took charge? Are Hindoos in Bangladesh not human being or it is an incidence not to be taken into notice of ? How many of them openly voiced against? Mother and daughter were raped in the same room repeatedly .Mother forced to wach daughter being raped and vice versa. Our so-called intellectuals safely say that the incidence occured in a country outside our controll. What these psychophants did immediately after Godhra incidence ? NOTHING. They never estimated the massive reaction that could have taken shape .It was beyound their immagination. Because Hondoos had been contineously tolerating such barbaric act . Gentleman, I do not blame the Muslims. It is our so -called self styled half learned headless Intellectuall community in true sense responsible not only for Gujrat incidence but all previous carnages. How many died in Kashmir? Till now we are headlessly chasing for a Kashmir solution, forcing innocent jawans into the vally of death. Who are these jawans? Obviously sons of poor parents who could not provide comfortable life to their sons. Can these thieves in intellectual disguise send their own sons for safeguarding Kashmir? WHO IS THE REAL CULPRIT BEHIND KASHMIR TANGLE ? It is the time for SERIOUS thinking for all of us. Mitra S.K. P.S. Thanks to OutlookIndia for providing me to express my tiny thought. |
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mitra 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 180 of 5400 ) Current incidence in Gujrat is an expression of long accumulated anger. Hindoos are all humans too. What about the attrocities done on Hindoos in the past ? How the media and all great armchair intellectuals could safely ignore and forget the recent incidence occured in Bangladesh immediately after Khalida Zia took charge? Are Hindoos in Bangladesh not human being or it is an incidence not to be taken into notice of ? How many of them openly voiced against? Mother and daughter were raped in the same room repeatedly .Mother forced to wach daughter being raped and vice versa. Our so-called intellectuals safely say that the incidence occured in a country outside our controll. What these psychophants did immediately after Godhra incidence ? NOTHING. They never estimated the massive reaction that could have taken shape .It was beyound their immagination. Because Hondoos had been contineously tolerating such barbaric act . Gentleman, I do not blame the Muslims. It is our so -called self styled half learned headless Intellectuall community in true sense responsible not only for Gujrat incidence but all previous carnages. How many died in Kashmir? Till now we are headlessly chasing for a Kashmir solution, forcing innocent jawans into the vally of death. Who are these jawans? Obviously sons of poor parents who could not provide comfortable life to their sons. Can these thieves in intellectual disguise send their own sons for safeguarding Kashmir? WHO IS THE REAL CULPRIT BEHIND KASHMIR TANGLE ? It is the time for SERIOUS thinking for all of us. Mitra S.K. P.S. Thanks to OutlookIndia for providing me to express my tiny thought. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 181 of 5400 ) Its criminal to try to find excuses for the brutal carnage in Gujarat while the Govt and Police stood by. There can be no excuse at all for lynching and killing 5 year old children! Those of you thirsting for revenge should head for Pakistan and Afghanistan where you can meet your equals in fanaticism. Killing innocent people especially women and worst of all children is cowardly, criminal and barbaric. I am sure that Lord Yama is waiting to give you fellows a very special treatment. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 182 of 5400 ) raul, assholes like you should understand that the muslims started the gujarat violence. But, all you "secular" motherfukers have blamed the victims in Godhra, and published lies about hindu actions. Check out Rajiv Chandrasekharan's article in washington post. This bastard openly blames the hindus, claiming that the hindus were exposing themselves to women!!! So EXCUSE ME if I dont give a shit about all the muslims burnt to a crisp in the rest of gujarat. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 183 of 5400 ) maky thank you. maky for president. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 184 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate i agree with u rishi This south asian race of brown people is made to be ruled by the white man.We have a long history of fighting among ourselves while licking the ass of the white man.We are higly emotional people whose sentiments are hurt very easily.We play a cricket match with pakistan as if it is a decisive war while we dont think too much over the humiliating defeat inflicted upon us by china in 1962.Simply b`coz they are yellow man and not brown like us.Thanks to ashok singhal and company who are currently carrying on our long drawn tradition.After all how can we give up our very own "swadeshi" culture so easily else the "western" progressive culture will invade us. |
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Adetya 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 185 of 5400 ) I am extremely disturbed at the barbaric murders on both sides and have been thinking about this for a few days now. The only solution possible is a scenario where the temple is built on the site so that the Hindus are satisfied and the Mosque is rebuilt so that the Muslims are not alienated either. The other solutions of forcibly building a temple or the mosque will polarize the communities for ever. Building anything else there would be an insult to the religious sentiments of both communities. Why is it not possible for a peaceful solution where the Muslims allow the Hindus to rebuild the Ram temple at the site and the Hindus relocate the existing Babri mosque brick by brick to another site chosen by Muslims and rebuild the rest ? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 186 of 5400 ) Adetya, You ask why a peaceful resolution is not possible. The fact is that muslims believe that they are superior to hindus and thus placing a hindu temple where a mosque once stood is just not acceptable. Never mind that the place carries special significane to hindus. All the rotten pseudo-secularists in the country seem to think that they are doing everyone a favor by providing biased anti-hindu coverage, but the laws of large groups of people need not be subservient to the laws of any government. It has happened in revolutions all over the world....except for the fact that hindus are the most fragmented self-loathing lot you can find on this planet. Most of the people who give hinduism a bad name are other "secular" commie hindus. |
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rajeev 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 187 of 5400 ) STATISTICS : Gujraat Muslim-cleansing 1.BJP,RSS says 650 muslims have been burnt alive. Opposition says atleast thrice that number (read 2000) have been mass-murdered. Muslim media says atleast 5000-6000 innocent muslims have been burnt beyond recognition. Its left to your discretion whom you choose to believe. 2.Nearly 25,000 muslims have taken shelter in Shah alam dargah in Ahmedabad alone. Most of them are lone survivors in their family. NGOs say shelters resemble CONCENTRATION CAMPS where food and medicines were prevented from reaching the place. 3.Estimated 50000-100000 "PRIVATE SAFFRON MILITIA" are going from villages to villages now in Northern Gujrat, ethnic cleansing the whole place. 4.100000 "unbiased" army has been posted in and around ahmedabad to "promote" communal amity. 5.Narendra Modi and Advani passed (did not visit) through "one" shelter camp. 6.Godhra massacre of "Ram bakhts" toll has been put at 60. 7.150 rioters have been shot dead by police. 103 of them muslims. 8.102 people have been arrested so far. Media reports say most of them are muslims. 9.VP Singh and IK Gujral two exprimeministers visited the genocide sites. Vajpayee is preoccupied in resolving the Ayodhya issue. 10.2,00,000 Zentac tablets are urgently needed to save the unknown number of dying muslims. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 188 of 5400 ) Wow! It's apalling to see people in the 21st century discriminating on the basis of 'class'! And on top of that, such hatred towards Brahmins. These days for ur kind info. 'Duryodhan', brahmins r the oppressed class in politics, reservation for jobs/education, while other classes are being pampered. Brahmins don't seem to resent that! We still think of it as equal opportunity. On the other hand I find it ridiculous to even characterise/stereotype people on the basis of some idiotic illusion called "caste"! |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 189 of 5400 ) Shabnam, I disagree with u on mulsims being 'kept' backward. It's a free world, India is a democratic country...there are so many opportunities for educated people, so many govt/private companies. My guess is that it's the socio-economic environment amongst the average muslims which has contributed to their lesser development. On the other hand, look at the forward muslims - Azim Premji, Abdul Kalam, Shabana Azmi, etc. They have done exteremely well, and are highly respected by ALL. Abdul kalam handled THE MOST SENSITIVE defence areas, and if not for him, India would not have been where it is, in military strength. These forward thinking muslims are different from main stream muslims in their outlook/attitude. I'm very sorry about classing people as muslims and hindus, but since u brought it up.... The bottom line is that there should be more encouragement coming from WITHIN the muslim community to pursue education rather than involving themselves with madrasas. Keep your religion for yourself, let it not come in the way of your development or ur interaction with others. I'm saying this for both hindus & muslims, as we find the above mentioned weaknesses in both communities. We should adopt NATIONALISM and PROGRESS as our motto and make religion a PERSONAL matter, which stays within our minds. Lets think about progress & our own economic development and forget about stupid feelings/bias based on religion. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 190 of 5400 ) rajeev, Peddle your worthless crap where somebody gives a damn. As of today fewer than 250 bodies have been buried. So how on earth do cretins like you believe that the death toll was 650?? The commies in the press often lower the number of hindus killed and elevate those of muslims...standard practice for decades... |
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shobha 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 191 of 5400 ) Well , well. I must have been suffering from Rip Van Winklish insomnia , because I REALLY did not know that now Brahmins are being discrminated against in India! I propose that all the dalits and other backward castes and Muslim converts and Christian converts tender an unconditional apology to our poor Brahmins for such systemic injustice! |
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shobha 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 192 of 5400 ) Yes, now I understand the problem. These insidious pseudo-secularists are trying to thwart the innocent designs of the forces of unification like the VHP! And these bastard communists are trying to promote ideas of Muslim supremacy. Where will the poor Hindu go? The fact that he massacres Muslims periodically is but insufficient compensation for his complete marginalization ! After all , the VHP and RSS and BJP and their ideological adherents in the government are after all trying to unite people. They are trying to do so by insisting that a temple be built on the very spot which is so communally charged. Poor Hindu, if the temple is not built at that very spot, will it not mean the very decimation of Hindu pride ? The fact that there are 100 million people below poverty line and other socio-economic problems are of course gems on the crown of Hinduism. If only the temple could be built - the crown would be complete! Why waste time eradicating poverty or stimulating economic growth when the lottery-ticket to Hindu pride exists - the Ram temple! |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 193 of 5400 ) You morons who are full of righteous anger about the past. Let me ask you this: suppose every dalit person decides they have to spit on an upper-caste hindu every morning. Why not? They have been treated horribly, less than human, mostly by upper-caste hindu people. They could also say: we have so much anger from the past, blah, blah, blah. We would have something like a civil war. Would this help dalit people? Of course not, we would have much more killing and fighting. I accept that islamic culture has done some terrible things in Northern India. The destruction of temples and disrespect for the indigenous culture is a terrible thing. We need to find a way to move beyond this. We need to say: this was wrong, we reject this, this chapter is closed, then we were weak, today we are strong. Indian culture was very weak in the 10-12 centuries, it could easily be conquered by 5-6000 afghans or uzbeks. Today, there is an independent india with full religous freedom. We are more educated than neighboring islamic countries. There is a large army to protect our borders. Our economy is growing, our scientists and workers are respected worldwide. Hindu religion is flexible and free of many of the strange ideas found in other religions. If you read the Ramcharita Manas, you will find it deeply moving, an exploration of the what it means to be a human being of integrity and valor (Rama). Of course, you may disagree with many actions of Rama, and this too is acceptable which is a great strength of our culture. So why do Ashok Singhal and the money and power hungry fanatics around him want to turn Hindu religion into a third-rate imitation of Islam? What is this nonsense about Ayodhya being like Mecca for Muslims. Where Rama dwells, that is where integrity dwells, where truth dwells, only there can be Ayodhya. Without these there is no dharma, there is no point building a hundred temples, or having a 100 rath yatras... |
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vision 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 194 of 5400 ) Recent communal violence in India is just another sad chapter in Indian history and BJP government has condoned the genocide by calling it a reaction to the train massacre. It was the responsibility of the police and government to deal with criminals involved in the tragic incident and punish them. This primitive reaction of lawlessness, death and destruction is bound to repeat itself as long as politics of religious hate being practiced by the BJP-RSS-VHP combine are allowed to continue unchecked. The criminals know it that they can get away with it after doing it. These organizations are the faces of Hindu terrorism. The concept of suicide bombings or gun toting terrorist is out dated. Unscrupulous politicians and religious men instigating people in the name of religion leading to death and destruction are the worst parasites of the society today .They must be brought to justice and tried as terrorists just as they had done Slobodan Milosevic. It is high time for the BJP government to stop blaming cross-border terrorism for internal problems and issuing a most wanted list of foreign criminals. The lawless BJP-RSS-VHP cadres deserve to be behind bars under anti-terrorism act POTO. Recent events in Afghanistan are a proof of the ultimate anarchy religious fanaticism can lead to. The unscrupulous politicians are now engrossed in calculating the implications of the riots on their political futures. Where are we going as a human race? Can't think there are still primitive human beings living in our era. We feel bad seeing a animal killed in a road traffic accident. What about human beings dragged and burnt. Indian society under BJP government seems to be going back to stone age. No God, will be appeased if a temple soaked in the blood of thousands of innocent Indians is built in 'His' honor. It is a shame that things have come to such a pass today that a law abiding Indian citizen, has to beg the state to perform its duty and grant him the most basic of fundamental rights- the right to life. The need of the hour is only one language, language of the heart and humanity. Nationalist Indian |
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vision 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 195 of 5400 ) TEMPLE TROUBLE In an age when political leaders around the world are devising new means to boost economic growth and prosperity, the ruling BJP-RSS combine in India are busy squabbling over silly medieval controversies dating back to 16th century temple. The BJP ‘s slogan of freedom from fear, hunger and corruption was nothing more than a deceptive slogan. The BJP state governments failed to provide good governance and recent election results bear testimony to the fact. It had several criminals among its elected representatives and indulged in record corruption. Under compulsions of its NDA allies the BJP tries to maintain a moderate and secular face but reverts to its communal face when it comes to winning elections. Whenever elections are declared its other face would appear in the form of VHP and Bajrang Dal threatening to construct the Hindu temple at the controversial site in Ayodhya from a declared date to satisfy its communal vote bank. BJP politics are based only on sentiments of religious hate and violence. Its enactment of POTO as a tool to suppress voice of dissent against its communal agenda, whipping up war frenzy, banning minority organisations, faking the magnitude of terrorist threat to harass minorities have not yielded desired results. Harassment meted out to Muslim men and the molestation of Muslim women routinely by VHP cadres let loose by BJP while proceeding or returning from temple construction precipitated the ghastly incident in Gujarat resulting in 58 VHP cadres being ruthlessly burnt alive. This incident followed by revenge killings and loss of property of Muslims is equally condemnable.In BJP ruled Gujarat state minorities have been repeatedly attacked ,mosques and churches burnt down.Muslims and Christians have been living in perpetual fear in Gujarat.The BJP should now learn a lesson that its communalism and politics of religion will not take it far. Indians cannot vote for the BJP indefinitely on issues of temple or mosque or endorse its ideology of hate. VHP and RSS deserve to be banned for destabilising the nation with their anti-national activities of stoking fires of communalism at a time when national security in under threat. Nationalist Indian |
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indpat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 196 of 5400 ) Does secularism only mean nondiscrimnation among the different religions? How about intrareligion discrimnation? Is it very secular of the so called secular parties to instigate the OBCS & Dalits to wage wars against the socalled forward casts? If someone does not vote for a ruling party, doesn't mean he/she has forfeited his/her right to be ruled justly. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 197 of 5400 ) Nobody cares about the Hindus burnt alive in Gujrat. Parlimaent had to be adjourned only after some Muslims were killed.The news of 58 HINDUS BURNT ALIVE had no effect on Parliament. That exposes the anti-hindu mindset of our politicians. Only BJP and SIVA SENA are the exceptions. We hindus had to protect ourselves , we must not forgive them who r trying to kill us. If protecting ourselves makes us communal , let it be. The muslim leagues , Congress , CPI , SAMAJVADI etc are involved in deep-rooted conspiracy to eliminate Hindus from India too. They are follwing an hidden "secular" agenda of massacring Hindus everywhere , that is why they never protest when Hindus are killed. |
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umashiv 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 198 of 5400 ) When the Babri masjid was being demolished, no paigambar came to stop it and when the train passengers at Godhra were torched, Lord Ram did not come to their rescue. Religion in our country should be restricted to individual's home only if we are to survive as a democratic and secular institution. Besides the religious fundamentalism, which is chiefly the reason for the communal flare-up, in the Gujarat riots, some settled their personal vendetta, some burnt their own shops and vehicles to get the insurance. Politics, of course played a role. People of both the communities which were involved in the riots, will not forget the scars and the embers will be kept simmering. Old timers were happy that the new generation have inherited this hatred. |
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ankankr 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 199 of 5400 ) Aporos the article by Sundeep Dougal. All he says is fine, the revenge cycle has to stop.But what were you doing when the kar sevaks had been burnt to death? Why did the media and the polity refrain from making any statements or reports condemning unequivocally the barbarism at Godhara? Why did every news report seem to convey the message that the "demons" had been brought to "natural justice"?Why did the press briefings and the guest coulmns screamed for a ban on vhp when they should have been investigating and condemning the animals who burnt the train?Wasn't the godhara incident heinous as the Ayodhaya incident?Was there any provocation? These are the questions that have been haunting us.The hindus of this country have felt cheated yet again by a media and the polity which has tall claims of bein secular but has not the basic human element of seeing a crime against humanity in the right perspective.You are always busy in the great balancing act. Well done. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 200 of 5400 ) Some of the contributors to this forum seem to suffer from a massive inferiority complex. How else can one explain their fears, when Hindus form the vast majority of India (over 80%)? Killing innocent people, especially children is a crime and sin. God can not be Hindu or Muslim. If there is a God, then he will be one for all of us on this earth as well as on other planets. So, stop bad mouthing others and behave yourselves, or else, you will get your just desserts soon. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 201 of 5400 ) Shobha, You "dont know" that brahmins are being discriminated against in India. Barhmins are allowed to compete for only 5% of the educational pool, this 5% is also open to everybody else. This would be called discrimination in most places. Somehow, such simple points seem to elude cretins like you. The point is that ALL INDIANS have to be treated equally; now, how on earth is this possible when we recognize various religious civil codes?? Also, it must be noted that the only people against such an idea are the so-called pseudo-"secularist" assholes. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 202 of 5400 ) raul, Clearly you are too stupid or intellectually dishonest to note the main point being made by many posters: the media is openly displaying anti-hindu bigotry. 1. The religious identity of the miscreants was consciously covered up by the english media, while this same media had no compunctions railing against hindus after the well-deserved retaliation. 2. ToI has a story about some Banatwala who apparently shed copious tears about muslims deaths took precautions to call the Godhra incident a "crime" (even tough the victims were allhindus) but referred the post-Godhra violence as a "genocide" (because all people targeted were muslims). This kind of semantic chicanery comes naturally to the commie assholes who permeate the Indian media. In any case, who died and made you the forum fascist, asshole?? Do you worst, and follow up on your threat, you stupid freak of nature. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 203 of 5400 ) the violence in india is not temple violence. it is muslim and islamic violence. ayodhya has got nothing to do with it. the VHP is not responsible for the violence it is the muslim anti-nationals and their communist/congress cohorts who are responsible. in 1947 millions died, was gandhi responsible, was nehru responsible. were hindus responsible. NO. the responsibility for the mass muder fully rests with muslim ideology and their inability to live peacefully with others. this is the root cause of the problem. Ayodhya is a good excuse. if it is not Ayopdhya, it is kashmir, if it is not kashmir it is islamic law. no matter what there will be trouble. bitches like shobha and mathrerchots like pmishra2 and underdeveloped animals like tathagat are a disgrace to human kind. |
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lukman 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 204 of 5400 ) It is not the first time that the media has failed the nation. Our press has always broadcast one side of the story and suppressed the other. When thousands of Pandit families had to leave their homes in Kashmir, no one bothered. Today some Kashmir leaders shamelessly try to blame the pandits, as if it is an easy decision for someone to leave his home and hearth. By not letting the world know that most of the riots in India are started by a few disgruntled Muslim young men, our press has helped them escape their just desserts. This attitude is an important reason of continuation of the riots even after 50 years of independence. If those who had ignited the fires had been nabbed and if they had been given an exemplary punishment, we would have been rid of this scourge long back. Besides the communal question, the press is largely responsible for encouraging the worst among us to rise to the top in politics. Who has created the illusion that decent men like Vajpayee, Advani and Narendra Modi are like the other casteist criminals, who infest our legislatures? Who has made out George Fernandes into as dishonest a defence minister as the worst that we may have had? When the press is unable to differentiate between an honest man in public life and a criminal, the public becomes cynical and starts voting by casteist and communal considerations. Then the editors get another topic on which they can pontificate. Why has the free press let down India? It is the usual lethargy to study an issue in detail for telling the truth, and, the instinct to avoid losing any opportunity to rise higher in the press hierarchy, when most of the editors happen to be leftist. Prem Chand in his novels, written during the early part of the last century, has vividly described the dishonesty of police officers and the inefficacy of the courts. Now when most of the political leaders are corrupt and the press finds it difficult to tell the truth, we can only wait for the next Godhra or Ahmedabad to happen. And then we shall again have to read the outpourings of those with a facile pen, showing how wise the writers are and how cruel and truly irreligious the rest of the people are. A.K.Aggarwal |
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shobha 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 205 of 5400 ) Bleeding heart Brahminists need not worry - the Dalits will soon apologize to you for a thousand years of discrimination. My eyes have been opened. I must have been looking at the world through bizarro glasses - how else could I miss the fact that Brahmins are discriminated against? |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 206 of 5400 ) luwmann, what can i say about your appalling ignorance? Your blind hatred and nonsensical beliefs! Mahatma Gandhi was killed by a extremist Hindu. Let us never forget that. Actually, I have a suggestion for you. Please acquire a copy of Tulsi Das's Ramcharita Manas and read it. Maybe this will lead you to some knowledge and insight. |
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ravi_k 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 207 of 5400 ) Hi, I have been reading all these posts about how the Muslims started and that they deserve such treatment. I can understand two gangs fighting each other. But, would someone please explain to me how a gang of men can chase children and set them on fire ? Is that courage ? Please dont tell me the Muslims also did the same thing. Yes, they burned the train. The answer should have been to track down those who did the crime and punish them. Or, since the 'punishment' has already been meted out, is it no longer necessary to punish the real attackers ? |
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hihary 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 208 of 5400 ) I think an example should be made out of the Gujarat violence by instituting army court marshals (Only Army was involved in controlling the violence, secondly there is no confidence in civil Judicial process) who can swifly prosecute the leaders of all parties involved in masterminding this incident. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 209 of 5400 ) pmishra2, It is a pity that the bastard Gandhi was not killed earlier. He is responsible for the whole "appeasing the minority" crap. Gandhi was good at fighting the british in an ingenious way, but his internal politics of appeasement of the minorities was despicable. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 210 of 5400 ) shobha, Nice try at sarcasm, but needs more work. No one questions the validity of affirmative action, but to deliberately shutting out competent people from position based on caste is called discrimination by most people. For example, a lot of positions in government are not filled because there are not enough people from that caste. Common sense dictates that if there are other people in the market who are competent for the job, then they be given a shot, but why the hell am I explaining all this to a dork like you. Save up some money and buy yourself some more neurons and you might see the light. |
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hhhggg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 211 of 5400 ) O God!!! Look at the bias everywhere, including in this magazine Outlook. No details about the Hindus slaughtered on Feb 27... What was the provocation?? Is being a Hindu a provocation?? Thanks to Sep 11, the whole world can understand the pain caused by Islamic terrorism.. Thank god, this happened in Gujarat -- Hindus retaliated well.. If such pseudo secular -- liberal -- views prevail, Hindus will face the same fate as JEWS!!! |
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hhhggg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 212 of 5400 ) Lots of idiots think it was Gandhi who got freedom to India. Fact is:- after World war II, England was bankrupt, and all English Colonies got freedom. If anything, Gandhi partitioned India... and damaged the Indian Psyche forever. In 1947, One US Dollar = One Indian Rupee. Nehru wanted to screw Lady Mountbatten, but he screwed Indian Economy instead.. All the ills India face today are due to Gandhi and Nehru. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 213 of 5400 ) Good points, hhhggg. One little known fact is that this moron Nehru handed over India's seat in the secuirty council to the chinese as a "goodwill" gesture. Not willing to let a goodwill gesture go by, China invaded India in 1962. This bloody clown Nehru is being touted in India as some sort of hero, when in fact all he was doing was Edwina Mountbatten. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 214 of 5400 ) there is no doubt that gandhi and nehru were selfish and were more interested in their owm greatness. gandhi was trying to protect his philosophy which was bankrupt even in 1947 in his own country. he just could not bear that defeat. his appeasement of the muslims and the fact that he could not face the truth about muslim violence undid him. yes a hindu killed him. future generations can debate if this was good or bad for the country. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 215 of 5400 ) "karapall" -- I HAVE TO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE SAID |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 216 of 5400 ) nehru is a whole different story. in any other country he would have been defamed as a traitor. only stupid indians namely hindus can tolerate this. he insulted hindus at every turn, refused to go to the somnath temple ceremony, never visited a temple but had no hesitation in visiting dargas and mosques (that was ok), led the country to shame against china, did not have the guts to protect tibet, a total and complete coward of a man. introduced a system of economics which was a clone of communism. one of the world's leading economic power in 1947 india is now scoffed at. he fucked up the kashmir issue and always considered himself and other kashmiris to be superior to other indians. ceratinly a foolish and idiotic personality. |
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pvs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 217 of 5400 ) Guys, Did the 'secularists and intellectuals' object to the misuse of the Hindu symbol 'Aum" in outlook ? i am referring to the illustration by Saurabh Singh depicting Aum as an octopus entangling Gujarat. I am sure they would have objected and had it been a symbol of the 'minorities'. Outlook failed to recognize that what happened in Gujarat is not because of Hinduism but by people who claim to be Hindus and that only in this Hindu majority India they can throw this kind of insults to the religion of the majority community. Outlook has once again proved that it is a part and parcel of the so called pseudo secularists and intellectuals who feel that the only way to show their intellect is by the bashing of Hinduism and Hindus. In this way it irritates even moderate Hindus like me who reject and wholeheartedly condemn the violence and bloodshed in Gujarat. Outlook has insulted the great sages and philosophies of India. It must apologize to Hinduism. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 218 of 5400 ) luwmann, karapall: Here is how the future of india is going to unfold in your hate-filled hinutva paradise. It is going to resemble Lenanon and Yugoslavia. There are going to be revenge killings and bomb explosions every week. South India will likely secede from the rest of the country as the south has maintained its more civilized indian culture. North india will become like parts of africa. Gangs of people with guns running around killing each other, people being burnt for revenge.... It is pathetic to hear you talk of Gandhi or Nehru. It is like hearing an ant discussing Einstein's theories. A high school student would have a better understanding of history than you do. Good luck with your hate. I guess only when our country is totally destroyed by your money-grubbing hate-generating sants will you come to any wisdom.... |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 219 of 5400 ) The latest article by mister Jha is complete BUllshit. What is wrong with these pseudo-secularists?? They cannot even call a spade a spade! The events of the train burning incident are long forgotten. The misery of those 60 odd women and children who were burnt alive by savage beasts have been forgotten already! This is a complete disgrace! Outlook even had the god-damn audacity to use the sacred syllable OM and make a evil symbol out of it. THIS IS TO MUCH! This is why moderates like me are forced to support the hardliners at times. |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 220 of 5400 ) About luvmann and Karapall I agree completely with pmishra2. These morons talking about Gandhi or Nehru is like insect talking about Einstein. Great example !! It is easy to sit infront of a computer and spew venom about others. It doesn't take any courage or determination. But thank God people like you are not going to succeed; bcos you people are incapable of doing anything important other than writing hate messages on a bulletin board. |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 221 of 5400 ) All those 'defenders of Hindu culture' Will you please explain to me how most of India was ruled by Muslims from 11th or 12th century until 18th century if the Hindu culture was so great and the people were so brave. Were they incapable to of defending their kingdoms against invaders numbering a few ten thousand at the maximum. And then most of the coutry was ruled by British and other Europeans for 200 years. Defending the country against these invaders would have taken courage and planning and unity among the people. Thousands of people chasing innocent women and children and setting them on fire is not quite the same. That is a job for the cowardly. The fact that many of 'us' can defend such crimes shows exactly what is wrong with our country. You know why Hindus in ancient times couldnt defend their country against invaders ? Bcos a small group of upper castes were oppressing the vast majority. And the lives of this majority would have been the same whether the coutry was under Brahmin rule or Muslim rule or British rule. So these people had no incentive in defending the nation. And as for foul-mouthing Gandhi or Nehru : they were the ones (along with others like Patel) who led the fight which played a major role in gaining the coutry's independence. Of course there were other factors like the international events in the first half of this century. But India would not have won freedom if there already was not a strong national movement. BTW, all the earlier armed struggles had failed. |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 222 of 5400 ) <<< Message #212 by hhhggg If anything, Gandhi partitioned India... and damaged the Indian Psyche forever. >>>> Probably you didnt know that India was around 500 different princely states at the time of independece. And the railways, civil administration and other things that make India one country today was built by British to facilitate their colonial rule. But I never understood why the Hindutva zealots hated partition. Without partition Indian would have had 30 crore more Muslims and they would have been even more influential in Indian politics. Will someone please explain it to me ? Is it their love for the 'glorious ancient Bharat'. Maybe they should stop burning innocent children first ? That would bring more glory. Or is this burning of children a continuation of burning of widows which was practised in their 'glorious ancient Bharat' ? |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 223 of 5400 ) Why do Hindutva zealots hate Gandhi and Nehru ? For centuries, the upper castes had a great time suppressing the vast majority of lower castes and making the lower castes work for them practically like slaves. Gandhi and Nehru changed that system and brought about democracy. So the lower castes have more power than ever before. That is what they really hate about Gandhi and Nehru. All other reasons are just smoke and noise |
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Calive 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 224 of 5400 ) Hey Luwmann, you did not know the real picture of democracy as India is known as largest democracy in the world, but in practical there is no democracy in India. You see, the humans are brutally killed for saving vote banks like in Gujarat. It was Rajiv Gandhi in 1987 who opened the key of the lock of the disputed land for saving his vote bank in UP. Then during the tenure of Narasimha Rao, the roiters demolished the sacred Babri Mosque. And now BJP behind the curtain did large scale massacre in Gujarat only to please the Hindu Gods. |
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ankankr 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 225 of 5400 ) Can anyone give me the number of statements condemning the killings at Godhara till the morning of 28th feb? When you go through them, note the tone. Then look at the statements after the riots.Ans note their tone.Note the difference. This is secular India. No wonder things take place they do!!!! |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 226 of 5400 ) nirmal, So are you trying to tell me that India had no history before the 12th century?? Do you have any brains, you worthless imbecile. Indian history has many chapters since it is many 1000s of years old. Fairness demands that every event be given equal weightage and presented to the Indian people. Glorifying muslims rule and excising parts that might "hurt muslim sensibilities" while at the same time pissing on hindus is not acceptable. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 227 of 5400 ) First of all, it is not Nehru who screwed Indian Economy, but Indians themsselves. In 1947 India's population was 400 Million, today it is 1.1 Billion. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 228 of 5400 ) Note how Calive plays down the godhra violence and focuses on the aftermath. This is exactly the kind of biased behavior that will further increase the schism between hindus and muslims. If the cretins in the Indian media think they are doing Indians a favor by being anti-hindu, they have many more surprises coming their way, I am sure, and none for the betterment of relations between hindus and muslims. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 229 of 5400 ) nirmal, do you know the facts about Nehru's life or have you been instructed by your local congress party booth that Nehru had a long schlong and was the savior of the unwashed masses?? Well, that cretin Nehru has done MANY mistakes that have screwed India's future, such as handing over India's security council seat to China and letting the Kashmir issue ranke just because he had a personal interest in the issue. So I judge every person by their actions, unlike imbeciles like you who seem to think that Nehru is some sort of demi-god. The asshole Nehru was bad news for India and he needs to be exposed for the vacuous asshole that he was. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 230 of 5400 ) Josh, Maybe you were born yesterday, but the man single-handedly responsible for taking India down the path of socialism (which is one of WORST things to have happened to India) is this imbecile Nehru, who seemed to be more intent on doing Edwina Mountbatten and jumping on everything with a skirt or saree on, than he was on being a visionary, which he was not. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 231 of 5400 ) Josh, Yes, the population today is 1.1 billion and yet we still seem to claim that muslim civil laws that require multiple wives and an equal number of offsprings are still required to "keep India's future bright". Do you see the inherent contradicition or are you too stupid to do so. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 232 of 5400 ) The bastards at outlook now claim that Godhra was "not a hindu-muslim problem". Now, maybe someone can explain why it is But of course these dishonest assholes in the media like Vinod Mehta would still like to feign ignorance of this openly biased attitude against hindus. |
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hin 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 233 of 5400 ) the indian media is back to its old pseudo liberal nonsense. the fact that 58 people were burnt alive is casually disregarded and sarcastic statements are made about the indian police and army . the admisntration cannot do anything when there are mobs of thousands of people. we must try and put the situation in perspective . the retalitiaon may have been brutal but it was reatalitaion for a brutal act. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 234 of 5400 ) What I would like to know is why the assholes in the Indian media are not investigating on the reasons why and how the Indian police and fire agencies were stopped from doing their job by the Godhra muslims. Now, these hypocritical anti-hindu bastards will turn right around and claim that their lack of focus on Godhra is non-partisan....yeah, right. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 235 of 5400 ) Given this kind of attitude among the Indian media and the pseudo-intellectual pseudo-secular crowd that holds all the cards in the Indian press, one needs to make sure that discrimination against muslims starts at a personal level to make up for the anti-hindu bias exhibited by these bastards in the left-wing commie brigade. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 236 of 5400 ) The Sabarmati Express compartment no S-6 two other compartment of the Sabarmati Express was carrying the kar sevaks of the V.H.P. And it was due to these kar kevaks from Compartment no S-6 that the incident occurred. The actual story didn't start from Godhra as being told everywhere but it started from a place from Daahod 75 km before Godhra railway station. At about 5:30 to 6:00 am the train reached Daahod railway station. These kar sevaks, after having tea & snacks at the railway stall, broke down the stall after having some argument with the stall owner and they processed back to the departing train. The stall owner then filed an NC against kar sevaks at the local police station about the above incident. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 237 of 5400 ) Cont...from above.. Then about 7:00 to 7:15 am the train reached Godhra railway station. All the kar sevaks came out from their reserved compartments and started to have tea and snacks, at the small tea stall on the platform, which was being run by an old bearded man from the minority community. There was a servant helping this old man in the stall. The kar sevaks on purpose argued with this old man and then bate him up & pulled his beard. This was all planned to humiliate the old man since he was from the minority community. These kar sevaks kept repeating the slogan, "Mandir ka nirmaan karo, Babar ki aulad ko bahar karo". (Start building the Mandir and throw the sons of Babar i.e. the Muslims out of the country.) Hearing the chaos, the daughter (16) of the old man who was also present at the station came forward and tried to save her father from kar kevaks. She kept pleading and begging to them to stop beating her father and leave him alone. But instead of listening to her woes, the kar kevaks lifted the young girl and took her inside their compartment (S-6) and closed the compartment door shut. The train started to move out of the platform of Godhra railway station. The old man kept banging on the compartment doors and pleaded to leave his daughter. Just before the train could move out completely from the platform, two stall vendors jumped into the last bogey that comes after the guard cabin. And with the intention of saving the girl they pulled the chain and stopped the train. By the time the train halted completely, it was 1 km away from the railway station. These two men then came to the bogey in which the girl was and started to bang at the door and requested the kar sevaks to leave the girl alone. Hearing all these chaos, people in the vicinity near to the tracks started to gather towards the train. The boys and the mob (that also included women) that had now gathered near the compartment requested the kar sevaks to return the girl back. But instead of returning the girl, they started closing their windows. This infuriated the mob and they retaliated by pelting stones at the compartment. The compartment-adjoining compartment S-6 on both sides contained kar sevaks of the V.H.P. these kar sevaks were carrying banners that had long bamboo stick attached to them. These kar sevaks got down and started attacking with bamboo sticks on the bob gathered to save the girl. These was like adding insult to injury for the crowd gathered and their anger was now uncontrollable. The crowd started to bring diesel and petrol from trucks and rickshaws standing at the garages Signal Fadia (a place in Godhra) and burnt down the compartment. They didn't bring the fuel from any petrol pump as being reported everywhere nor was this act of burning pre-planned as being mentioned by many people but it happened all of a sudden out of sheer frustration and anger. After hearing about this incident, member of V.H.P. living in that area started burning down the garages in Signal Fadia, they also burnt down Baddshah Masjid, at Shehra Bhagaad (small area in Godhra). Reliable resources have reported all these information and facts to their information and me can't be doubted. I would also mention my sources namely Mr. Anil Soni and Neelam Soni (reporters of Gujarat Samachar Newspaper and also member of P.T.I. & A.N.I.) have worked hard to dig the true facts and they duly deserve words of appraisal for their hard work. Mr. Soni's mobile number is 009825038152. Res. Tel. no.02672-43153 & Off. Tel no. 02672-43152 Fax no. 02672-45999. Due to no proper substantial and circumstantial evidence and the late arrival of the Police at the scene of crime frustrated the Police. Which resulted in harassment and arrests of innocent local people living in Godhera. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 238 of 5400 ) When the whole world is talking about integrating, and marching ahead in economic and social improvements only India seems to be going backwards. History has proven time and again that people raise the bogey of Nationalism and Culturalism only to untimately destroy it. Nazi Germany is the best example. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 239 of 5400 ) Josh, Cretins like you should understand that unless we create laws that makes every Indian equal, we will be flushing India down the toilet in no time at all. In fact, the best Indians (at least hindus) can hope for is that all these breeding muslim mongrels be marginalized to their own ghettos, so that the scumbags can rejoice in their wonderful muslim identity. After all the muslims seem to think that their muslim identities come before their Indian identities. These secular cretins will have a nice shock when the "muslim brothers" turn against them when the time comes. And I would be all the more pleased when these secular motherfukers get slaughtered by these barbarians. Oh, joy. (End sarcasm) |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 240 of 5400 ) Josh, You bigoted bastard. How about including the view of the hindus in your report, rather than highlighting the muslium version where they whitewash themselves of the Godhra genocide. Secondly, you can wish all you want for development, but as long as we have all the jihadi islamic scumbags have free reign in India, Indian will be lucky to remain a third rate power in south asia, which happens to be their current position. Unless and until Indians get a backbone to question the kind of injustices against the majority in India, India deserves to be a third-rate power; after all, if Indians dont understand the strength of India, then no one else will. If the hindu MFs want to push the islamic version of Indian history, then the hindus dont deserve to have their own state and it would be better that these servile dogs live as slaves to the muslims in India. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 241 of 5400 ) luwman/karapall Who is intolerent/abusive/hate mongering and fuming with hatered. Is it Muslims or people like you who simply refuse to accepts anything other then what the RSS/VHP/BJP handbooks teach you. Well it is easy to keep on accusing one community, but you know what when you point onbe finger towards them three fingers of your same hand point towards you. Alteast be little bit decent in presenting your views without abusing. |
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perfect 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 242 of 5400 ) LADIES N GENTLEMEN this year's award for best author in fiction category goes to ...... u guessed it right - JOSH007. it seems to me that only josh was present when the godhra incident took place. no it was not pre planned mr. josh, "the mob" was simply expert at building petrol bombs and whatever happened is perfectly justified coz to save the hypothetical girl in ur story its perfectly alright to kill brutally around 60 people including women and children who were "raping that girl". |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 243 of 5400 ) Josh, I was just waiting for you to call me a RSS/BJP sishya. Imbeciles like you should know that there exist people like me who loathe all sides equally. If the RSS/VHP had any brains at all, they would be pushing the view that Rama is the equivalent of [jesus/mohammed] to hindus, and if at all there is a party that is uncompromising, it is the AIMPLB and the AIBMAC assholes, and not to mention, the usual suspects such as Imam Bukhari (now, there is a murderous communal bastard if there ever was one). All the abuse you get from me is well deserved, trust me on this one. The swiftness and agility with which the media is rushing to cover up the Godhra genocide is quite incredible, especially for avowedly pro-congress/pro-commie rags like Outlook India. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 244 of 5400 ) Well everyone who disagrees with Karapall seems to be an asshole/bastard/son of a bitch. Well what else can you expect from the hindutva-wadis. And they call everyone else a scum... |
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topcat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 245 of 5400 ) The North Indian states are riddled with fanatics and criminals in politics. These states have lowest human development indicators in the country while the southern states(Kerala, Andhra, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka) have the highest. Problems such as killing of Sikhs, Muslims, Ayodhya, Kashmir, Pakistan, China, Assam which are bleeding the country arise because of the stupid barabrians living in the North Indian states. The Southern states have for 50 years ended using their resources to pull these Noth Indians heads out of their asses. Now it looks like that is not going to happen. So the only alternative available to the four Southern states is to form a separate confedaration and secede from India. |
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a2398 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 246 of 5400 ) Topcat, I am sorry but I am from Andhra and I know for a fact how casteist people in Andhra and Tamilnad can be. Communal riots ? Hindus massacre each other in South India (the majority middle castes especially). Please also realize that without North India absorbing the shock of foreign invasions, South would not be as peaceful as you see it. South Indians states form a seperate confederation ? Who are you the Dravidian fascist ? Sorry, maybe that is an oxymoron.. all Dravidianists are fascists!! |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 247 of 5400 ) topcat, I think you are on the right track. How long will an Naidu or Krishna wait on these bone-headed Northies? These guys want to rock and compete with Malaysia and coastal china. Even Amma for all her thievery has a strong progressive streak. My suggestion is that the southern states appropriate the name India/Bharat. The northern states would also need a new name, lets see, how about Bevakoof-istan (Country of fools, for non-urdu speakers). Sounds about right to me.... |
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munees 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 248 of 5400 ) If events like this happen very often in a country like ours where more than 30 crore people are in below poverty line then definitely we can never be a super power.The things happened last week show that there is still a long way to civilization in India.The problem in India is not with Hindu and Muslims it is with the governance. If we continue to live with these things we deserve to be ruled by foreigners both in market and government. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 249 of 5400 ) the problem is with islam. whereever these muslims are present , there are problems and hatred. these people are not suitable for modern times. they have a 6th century mentallity. hatred is the oxygen for them. the middle east countries and all other muslim countries are in medieval ignorance and darkness becuse of the curse called islam. some muslims are dreaming of dividing india again . pmishra2 is a muslim. pmishra2 you are thief by ur religion , why take a hindu name ? or r u continueing spitting lies and venom in the islamic way ? |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 250 of 5400 ) thetruth, It would take even a child only five minutes reading of this discussion group to figure out who is spitting lies and venom (and abuse!). The people who have a sixth century mentality killed innocent citizens for "revenge" on the streets on Ahmedabad. You are a person for whom hatred is like oxygen, as you show through your words. The people who are full of adharma and atyachar prevented our police and army from protecting innocent citizens from attacks by maha-rakhashas in Gujarat. Read the Bhagvad Gita: you will learn that malice, hatred and ignorance of your type may succeed in scaring people for a short time but in the end can never succeed. |
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jeevanje 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 251 of 5400 ) The Mandal Commission report and the upliftment of Backwards and SC/STs brought the militant Brahmins / Kshatriyas together to fight the development of OBCs of India. These bloody RSS-VHP-Bajrang Dal brahmin leaders are the bane of India. Kill these 'kamchors'. That will bring peace and progress to India. Is any Brahmin or Kshatriya is tortured or killed in these riots? They are leaders... The poor Muslims, Christians, OBCs, Harijans are losing their precious life for the zest of these Brahmins.. |
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sarah 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 252 of 5400 ) It is outrageous to see people being elated by killing fellow human beings in the name of religion- may be hindu or muslim. The fact that we tend to justify these barbaric-criminal instincts in the name of religion not only breeds more hatred and violence but also blinds us from seeing the reality which is we still live in barbaric world-expecting civilization of any sort from us is a long way to go. Instead of resolving ourselves to eradicate poverty and third world status we thrive on provoking communal hatred. Government officials and our politicians have become amock since they have not only failed to tackle the issues like poverty but also failed to give any form of political stability. Year in and Year out we have riots; Can we still expect some hope from our failing democracy? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 253 of 5400 ) Josh, Now, now, let us face facts shall we? You have exihbited your boneheadednessby virtue of your posts. I was just helping you by kicking you inyour teeth for added effect. |
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Ratan 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 254 of 5400 ) It has set me thinking over my very existence as a Hindu in India. Why should I be a Hindu in India? Since birth, I am indoctrinated with inferiority complex of being part of a a defeated and backward civitilization saved only by British who gave me a nation state. I, as a Hindu is blamed for all that is wrong with India. I am supposed to be solely responsible for protecting the secular fabric of the state while all others can get away with any demand to get their pound of flesh in the social, political pie. I am supposed to forget all that happened to me during and fater the partition of India and be big hearted. I am not supposed to retaliate, whatever the provocation. If, God forbid, I do, I am cornered by the great Indian secular forces (who are supposed to represent 80% of Indians like me!) and harangued about my committment to my great religion called Hinduism which teaches tolerance, catholicism. I do not know how to react to all the finger pointing at me by the progressive people who want me to negate my Hinduism for its reactionary customs like caste discrimination and every other possible social evil but at the same time, keep up the supposedly high traditions of the same religion! I am drilled for all kinds of duties towards all minorities of India but I have no rights as a Hindu citizen of this poor and wretched country. So, why should I be Hindu in such a country? May be, conversion to a 'great' religion like Christianity or an 'elightening' religion like Islam might liberate me from this wretched life. Can somebody guide me? Ratan Sharda |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 255 of 5400 ) ratan, I am sorry you feel so bad being a hindu. I feel proud belonging to powerful religion which has survived close to 4000+ years. I feel proud that Hindu-majority India has provided a society relatively free of religous exteremism. I feel proud that Indian society is based on a system of relatively neutral system of justice and laws and not on some bizarre set of rules written down 1000 years ago. When I look at primitive societies like Saudi Arabia, Iran and, specially, Pakistan, I think: wow ! we have really managed to create something different and decent in India. I feel proud that Indians have created a powerful army and industry. I feel proud that our people are starting to be known around the world for their ingenuity and hard work. I feel proud that I come from a religous tradition with such great and powerful figures as Rama and Krishna, Shankaracharya and Ramanujam, Gautama Buddha (born a hindu!). Is there a passage in a religous text in the world that can compare with Krishna's dialog with Arjuna? You do not feel proud of these things. Fine, please convert. If you need financial or personal assistance you could try contacting the Saudi Embassy in New Delhi or the Vatican. They will be happy to help. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 256 of 5400 ) sarah, If you believe that we are in a "civiled world", you better think again. After it is "civilized" western world that has committed the worst genocides in human history. Today's world is all about asserting your influence over the world by whatever devious message you can spread; ask any christian missionary and he/she will tell you so openly. This is a turf war and unless the global gangs can acquire mutual respect, there is no end in sight. Islam and Christianity have disavowed any chance of mutual respect even though we see much horse manure to the contrary orchestrated for politically correct reasons. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 257 of 5400 ) pmishra2, when muslims can openly slaughter hindus and get away with it, as they have in Godhra, you have very little to be proud of about India. India needs to break up and have another partition for the commie scums and the gandhiian troglodytes to perish and for semblence of reasonable behavior to touch all the religious communities in India. Nothing short of a bloody communal revolution will do the trick. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 258 of 5400 ) pmishra2, what "neutral" judicial system in India are you talking about? The indian judicial system has always been about delays and inaction. A simple fact is that there arre 3 CRORE cases pending in the Indian justice system. The Indian justice system is a joke and the only people who seem to appreciate it are the commie cretins, since that matches with the commie agenda of doing nothing. Ask any pinko liberal asshole in India as what they want and the answer is "power without responsibility" -- which also happens to be the motto of the Indian media. India deserves to be flushed down the toilet bowl of history, if people such as pmishra, Lehar, and cleo are supposed to be "patriots" of the state. What a freaking laugh. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 259 of 5400 ) Well, well, both the hindustan times and rediff have reported that muslims were incited to burn the train by a mullah's call from the local mosque and also the fact that Kalota is a congresswallah, even though the pseudo-secular assholes in rags such as Outlookm India have done their best to suppress this fact. In fact, guess how they washed the congress clean,....based on statements from congress party's own spokesperson. How convenient!!!! Just reinforces my view that these kaangress wallahs are the worst bunch of communal scumbags to roam this planet. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 260 of 5400 ) karapall, I think I understand now your ideal country. It is called Rwanda. Why don't you immigrate there? Two tribes Tutsi's and Hutu's have been killing each other by the 100's of thousands. Isn't that wonderful? Such a wonderful "bloody communal revolution" (your disgusting words). Have you done a single thing fo your matr-bhumi? You complain about everything but are you willing to help with anything? If the courts are too slow help change them ; if the police is too incompetent get up and demand changes. Have you written a single letter, have you performed a single action to improve things in India. I think I know the answer. It is soo-much easier to blame everything on the backward muslim community. See there is not enough rainfall in Delhi this year. That must be due to an ISI plot. The muslim leadership is backward, islamic traditions are ultra-backward. No one disputes that. The question is what is the smart thing for India to do? Of course, you don't care for all this hard thinking, you are busy enjoying your "victim" status and applauding "bloody communal revolution". |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 261 of 5400 ) pmishra2, I have done everything you have mentioned pal, and have been doing so for a while. I have come to the conclusion that most Indians, and you are a good example, are self-loathing, self-denigrating, worthless pieces of human garbage. I will say it again, only a bloody communal revolution will cleanse of the likes of you. You can try and escape reality by shutting your eyes and pretending that all is well with India.. IT IS NOT. People like you are the instigators of much bad blood between the majority and the minority. In fact, today the "secularists" in the media let loose a factoid that a "place of worship" was responsible for inciting the burning of the hindus in Godhra. They would like to provide excuses to muslims for their brutality and call a legitimate reaction by the hindus as "genocide". You can try these tricks all you want, but you better face up to the fact that communal harmony is dead, and I hope it stays that way. Personally, I will do everything in my power to screw Indians like you who come to me for favors. You pseudo-secular bastards are the worst. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 262 of 5400 ) Pmishra, So you have heard about rwanda, wow!! How well read you are, and here I am thinking that wholescale genocide was this neat little idea I thought up yesterday...(end sarcasm) Fools like you need to view events with the caveat that when the hindus take the law into their own hands -- which they will if things continue the whay they are today -- we will finally see India being flushed down the toilet, and good riddance too, especially if people like Lehar, Cleo, and pmishra are the best "intellectuals" the country can produce. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 263 of 5400 ) Guys, it's absolutely pointless to glorify ur religion/caste & condemn other religions/castes. What right do u have to assert ur personal beliefs on others? Live & LET LIVE!! b4 thinking of muslims or brahmins as threats to ur existence, open ur eyes & behold the immediate threats that r about to gulp u down - criminal politicians who r inciting religious fundamentalism just to divert public attention from their crimes; criminals having a field day;poor infrastructure (roads, electricity, water...); economic hardships; primary education & poor quality of higher education; convenience facilities to the masses.. the list is unending. Now do u realise which way to go, and what a long haul it is?? Some nations have already reached the destination while there are a score of others which are puting up a fight in the race to get a big lead. So while nations like China r going full zoom, thanks to fanatics like u, that India will be doomed to stay completely out of the race and give a clean WALKOVER!!! That too, when u r neck to neck with them in the competition, way ahead of other southeast asian countries, & junk countries like pakistan. So go ahead, shout ur fanatic slogans, bring about doom to ur own life and to the future of our country. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 264 of 5400 ) grohit, You are preaching to the choir here. The central point is whether pseudo-secular assholes like pmishra2 and the dorks in the Indian media have a right to whitewash the crimes of muslims and other minorities in India, while insisting that hindus do not have the right to defend themselves against bias that runs high in the Indian media. Note how most of the journalist pimps who write on hindu issues are mostly commie bastards or muslims. This is the level of credibility one can attach to outlook -like rags. Besides if hindus need to be sacrificed at the altar for "India's development", I am sure the hindus will have differing opinions on the subject, and that ultimately everyone will be sacrificed at the altar of India's doom. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 265 of 5400 ) http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020311fa_FACT1 Note a foreign report on Kashmir and the plight of kashmiri pundits. You can expect such quality journalism from the cretins who run outlook India or pretty any of the morons in the commie-brigade that controls Indian media. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 266 of 5400 ) Karapall, I totally disagree with u on the 'central point'. There's is no central point. there is a list of points which require immediate attention. I mentioned some out of this list in my last msg. ur point reg. bias in media & communal blame games comes way down in the list. Much more important r the ones that affect our lives in this real world rather than in our fantasies. BTW, religious zeal is bound to put u in the ranks of Mullah Omar, as achievers... |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 267 of 5400 ) grohit, You write "Much more important r the ones that affect our lives in this real world rather than in our fantasies." You seem to be specifically talking aout what affects your life, and you can be assured that YOU are NOT the central point in this discussion. Personally, I could care less if the hindus and muslims slaughtered each other --- the hindus deserve to die for their bare-faced cowardice and inability to protect their own interests. The muslims need to burn for being the communal motherfukkers they are. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 268 of 5400 ) grohit, Obviously cretins like you know very little about Mullah Omar and his ilk. If you are going to draw an analogy, make sure you know the facts, you steaming pile of obnoxious ignorance. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 269 of 5400 ) topcat, you are living in a dream land if you think that some how the south of india is more civilized than the north of india. there is no south india and north india. there is only one india. it is stupid to think that the south is better than the north. the north has been ravaged by invasions and the south has been relatively protected. if you really look at history the north has contributed it's part. our culture and civilization was born in the noirth. most great religious and scientific thought has come from there. buddhism, jainism, sikhism etc. are from the north and not the south. the people in the north have given their blood to protect india and that includes the southern part. you are a misguided moron my friend. stupid to the core. |
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rambler 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 270 of 5400 ) For those who are blaming the administration for being callous, they ought to refresh their brain cells and think about what happened during the breakup of USSR. The coup failed not because of administrative lapses but because the soldiers on the street could not prevent the people pouring into the streets and demanding democracy. Similarly the Gujraat's ill-equipped policemen were rendered bystanders(for their own safety). One just cannot contol such outpouring of emotions. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 271 of 5400 ) If the hindus and other educated Indians had any brains, they would leave India and droves....well, wait a minute, they are doing so already. While India loses its top talent because of the commie brigade, we can all sit back and watch these pseudo-secular cretins expound on India's mythical "strength"s which apparently are a direct fallout of the brand of "secularism" these cretins write about in their news articles. I am happy that India loses all the talent it has because of the bigotry of the "secular" crowd. At least, these talented people can go after their life's calling in peace elsewhere, instead of being persecuted by some so-called "oppressed caste" asshole (whose father happens to be an MP, MLA or otherwise rich crook) who sits by and collects government freebies for many generation and also happens to occupy some post in the government, also a freebie. WELCOME TO INDIA, WHERE WE REWARD THE INCOMPETENT AND PUNISH THE TALENTED. PLEASE LEAVE ASAP IF YOU BELONG TO THE LATTER CATEGORY. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 272 of 5400 ) Karapall the biggest ignoramus, for ur kind info. I happen to be a part of ur 'talented' pool of expatriate Indians - an NRI in the US. Now that u've shown ur true colors, I'll make it my life's mission to purge India of empty headed, anti national, anti social delinquents like u. There's no other place in teh world deemed fit for u than Afghanistan. If u wanna remain in India, get a 'brain job' done in the nearest mental asylum...but 1stly, get out of this discussion board. ur dung filled brain reeks of untolerable loonism. Go shoot ur wad in Afghanistan. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 273 of 5400 ) hey grohit, So you think you are the lord's special creation is you are an NRI, eh? Dont fool yourself into thinking that you are "talented". Going by your posts, you are nothing more than a gullible cretin who seems to swallow all the tripe floating around about how all of the world is progressing towards justice and equality for all. Now, let us all hear three cheers for this NRI asshole who thinks it is his life duty to "civilize" people who dont kowtow to his agenda. It works both ways, asshole. If you want to purge India of anti-social and anti-national elements you better start looking at the madrassas first. (At the very least, they will slice you up and throw you out for being a hindu...yes, this is the muslim psyche, make no mistake about it). |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 274 of 5400 ) grohit, How wonderful, now you are issuing death threats while claiming to be the only civilized individual hereabout. You want to "purge" India of people like me, eh ? Bravo, somebody hand this brilliant NRI the door prize for humanitarian behavior. |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 275 of 5400 ) This current episode of communal vilence is basically one enending series of hostility between hindus and muslims. These two religions can never be at peace itself in india. I am saying this despite having some very good muslim friends who happen to be as patriotic as I am. But what abt the rest 120 million of Muslims for whom the concept of india does not matter. Religion is everything to them and stubbornness and cruelty of this belief has manifested in the rise of equally militant hindu. These Hindus( They are more than you think ) no longer feel burdened by the weight of Gandhian-Nehruvian philosophy of secularism and brotherhood and believe in tit for tat, very much in sync with pattern folowed world wide . This is the reason that reprisals have been swift, severe in all near past riots. This is with the aim that the minority community must be taught a lesson and would think 100 times before taking arms next time. One more thing, India is not a true democracy. It actually can not be. All over the world, democracies have been successful only where one nation or religion has been in absolute majority (Europe )or else they are so distributed that there is a mutually symbiotic realtionship between communities(US). India has neither of both. It is a loosly defined confederal structure and and there is no idea of Indian Nation, how ever hard our pesudo intellectuals may try to convince us. In India, people are still a tamil first or an assamese. India is only their second reason d'etre. if india is today united , it is due to the fact that majority share a common religion , Hindu in this case. In this scenario, the two nation theory looks very justified and would have been a perfect although painful solution but for the skewed vision of our founding fathers. However , today nobody would allow any further partition of India to accomodate its 120 mio strong muslims and hence the only option for these guys is to accept the reality of a second class ciizen. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 276 of 5400 ) grohit, Pussies like you should understand the islamic psyche before you piss in your pants and bend over to the muslim barbarians for a proper buttfuk. Islamists are causing death and destruction all over the world, and hindus are the victims in India. Get that through your thick skull, mr. NRI. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 277 of 5400 ) awanish, Excellent analysis of the situation in India. The more the Indian press tries to muzzle the majority, the more they will be feeding the flames of communalism...one does not have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 278 of 5400 ) karapall, awanish, I wish you luck in the great violence that will come to India because of the barbaric attitudes like yours. When there is sabotage everyday, when trains and planes are booby-trapped. This is what is going to come out of Gujarat. You are arrogant fools, you have no knowledge of history or ability to learn from the world around you. Enjoy your arrogance because there is going to be very little else to enjoy... |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 279 of 5400 ) << Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 226 of 278 ) nirmal, So are you trying to tell me that India had no history before the 12th century?? Do you have any brains, you worthless imbecile. Indian history has many chapters since it is many 1000s of years old. Fairness demands that every event be given equal weightage and presented to the Indian people. Glorifying muslims rule and excising parts that might "hurt muslim sensibilities" while at the same time pissing on hindus is not acceptable.>> I didnt say that Indian history starts only from 12th century. Infact I agree quite a bit with you about the excess importance given to the Mughal period. But speaking of the history 2000 or 3000 years back - what do we know about it ? Can we make sure we dont get mythology and history mixed up ? For example if we are talking about India during Rama's time (assuming he really existed) << Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 229 of 278 ) nirmal, do you know the facts about Nehru's life or have you been instructed by your local congress party booth that Nehru had a long schlong and was the savior of the unwashed masses?? Well, that cretin Nehru has done MANY mistakes that have screwed India's future, >> Sure, Nehru has made many mistakes. Can you name one leader who hasnt ? You're probably right that the historians in the first 40 years have tried to portray nehru as someone who could do no wrong. << such as handing over India's security council seat to China and letting the Kashmir issue ranke just because he had a personal interest in the issue. >> About this the Soviet offer was to recommend India for the seat which nehru turned down. There was no guarantee that India would have got the seat had Nehru said yes. Furthermore I dont see how a veto would have made a big difference. As far as kashmir is concerned Soviet Union always vetoed in Indias favor whenever pakistan tried to push the plebiscite issue. And in our neighbourhood we have done whatever we wanted (eg Bangladesh in 1971) whether we had the veto or not. So a security council membership would have been prestigious, but I doubt if it really makes much difference in practice. BTW, do you think the 5 permanent members are equals. Can the Chinese use their 'veto' if US helps Taiwan in case of a Chinese attack ? Or do you think US will give a damn about what anyone else says if it important fot their security ? In the end the veto is only as powerful as the military strength you have to back it up. |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 280 of 5400 ) << Karapall (230 of 278 ) Josh, Maybe you were born yesterday, but the man single-handedly responsible for taking India down the path of socialism (which is one of WORST things to have happened to India) is this imbecile Nehru, >> It is easy to criticise Nehru's economic policies in the year 2002 when we all know that the communist model has failed as compared to capitalism. It was not so obvious in the 1950s. << who seemed to be more intent on doing Edwina Mountbatten >> I dont see how the fact that he screwed Edwina Mountbatten is relevant here. His wife died in 1936. You should have some sympathy for him :) << Karapall ( 231 of 278 ) Yes, the population today is 1.1 billion and yet we still seem to claim that muslim civil laws that require multiple wives and an equal number of offsprings are still required to "keep India's future bright". >> I am all for a uniform civil code. But considering that the people who push for a uniform code are those who try to justify the barbarity in Ahmedabad I'm having second thoughts. < << After all the muslims seem to think that their muslim identities come before their Indian identities. These secular cretins will have a nice shock when the "muslim brothers" turn against them when the time comes. >> You are probably right about this. But are you sure that for the Hindus the caste, language and regional identities are always below their 'Indian' identities ? I dont think so. I studied in an REC and I know that the Brahmin guys from UP and lower caste guys form separate groups. I dont know who is to blame. |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 281 of 5400 ) ""Ratan 3/1/2002 ( 254 of 278 )"" ""I am supposed to forget all that happened to me during and fater the partition of India and be big hearted. I am not supposed to retaliate, whatever the provocation. "" Everyone killed everyone else during partition. Nobody said Hindus shouldnt retaliate. First thing, it is the police and justice system which should punish the criminals. If that doesnt happen, you can kill the actual perpetrators of the crime. Killing innocents in Ahmedabad and looting their shops because of what happened in Godhra is not called retaliation. ""for its reactionary customs like caste discrimination and every other possible social evil but at the same time, keep up the supposedly high traditions of the same religion! "" You made a good point here. ""I am drilled for all kinds of duties towards all minorities of India but I have no rights as a Hindu citizen of this poor and wretched country. So, why should I be Hindu in such a country? "" You are right that there has been appeasement of Muslims bcos they vote as a block. But that is not the point here. The point is whether as a society we can uphold the rule of law and be civilized. Let me tell you something - the mobs which murdered innocent Muslims in Ahmedabad will turn to other targets when they get a chance. And if you feel that Muslims behave in a medieval way, the answer is not to say that Hindus also should behave in a similar way. A better model would be how science won many victories over the church in the west in the past centuries. BTW, dont think all of India's problems will be solved if 15 crore muslims went away. |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 282 of 5400 ) "" Karapall ( 256 of 278 )"" "" sarah, If you believe that we are in a "civilized world", you better think again. After it is "civilized" western world that has committed the worst genocides in human history. "" You're right. But I dont think the west is trying to justify anything that Hitler did. Even modern day Germany accepts that the extermination of Jews was wrong. Are you talking about the displacement and killing of native Indians in US ? ""Today's world is all about asserting your influence over the world by whatever devious message you can spread; ask any christian missionary and he/she will tell you so openly. "" Can you please tell me what a Christian missionary might say and what they do spread their message ? ""Karapall ( 261 of 278 ) "" ""In fact, today the "secularists" in the media let loose a factoid that a "place of worship" was responsible for inciting the burning of the hindus in Godhra. They would like to provide excuses to muslims for their brutality and call a legitimate reaction by the hindus as "genocide". "" I'll say once more - there is no excuse for what happened in Godhra. If you can find the people who did it, lock them inside a train and burn them. But killing innocent women and children in Ahmedabad and looting their shops is not 'legitimate reaction'. Or do you say that since 'revenge' has been done there is no need to investigate Godhra and punish the perpetrators anymore ? |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 283 of 5400 ) ""Karapall ( 271 of 278 )"" ""While India loses its top talent because of the commie brigade, we can all sit back and watch these pseudo-secular cretins expound on India's mythical "strength"s which apparently are a direct fallout of the brand of "secularism" these cretins write about in their news articles."" Let me ask you something. Do you think 'secularism' (real secularism, not what you call commie secularism) is good or not. Personally I think it is one of the good things about Hinduism. For example the Parsis came to Gujarat in the 8th century after they were displaced from Iran after the advent of Islam. Christianity existed in Kerala even before the 15/16th century European contacts. Infact I dont think this tolerance has not contributed to India being conquered by foreign forces. Even the mideast (which had Islam which is certainly not as tolerant as Hinduism) was occupied by Europeans. ""At least, these talented people can go after their life's calling in peace elsewhere, instead of being persecuted by some so-called "oppressed caste" asshole (whose father happens to be an MP, MLA or otherwise rich crook) who sits by and collects government freebies for many generation and also happens to occupy some post in the government, also a freebie. "" Have you trained your guns against the lower castes now ? |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 284 of 5400 ) Congratualations Josh to you and the reporters who uncovered the whole truth about Godhra. The so-called "Karsevaks" are in reality scumbags and goons who are capable of committing exactly the kind of atrocities described by you. They are cowards too, because when the train was set on fire they managed to muscle their way out, leaving poor women and children to face a fiery death. |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 285 of 5400 ) Someone said in one of the earlier posts that Muslim media claims that 5000/6000 Muslims were killed in Gujarat. I dont know if it is true (whether there are such claims). Could someone post a link to such news sites or discussion boards ? Thanks |
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nirmal00 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 286 of 5400 ) We all know the arguments for and against the temple, and the Hindu - Muslim arguments etc. Anyone wants to take a guess at what is going to actually happen in Ayodhya ? What the Supreme Court verdict is going to be ? |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 287 of 5400 ) Well ... guys.. u wanna be called an intellectual in our country? just use HINDU word with utmost hatered.. simple.. isnt it. ?!!!!!!!! GUjarat government did a right thing by blocking that fucking star news channel, their reporters were all over to condemn hindus when riots broke out in ahmedabad, but were not to be seen when 45 HINDU women and children were BURNT ALIVE in a train.. and the most ridiculous thing was that.. they were kind of justifying the act by putting the blame on carsevaks that they asked for it by going to ayodhya.. well then hindus should start killing muslims who visit mecca and madina.. isnt it? Its kinda justifying a rape coz a women was wearing revealing clothes... |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 288 of 5400 ) hatemongers, Enjoy the following information from rediff. Basically, Gujarat has shot itself in both feet. What a brilliant thing to do! Our country is under attack from islamic extremists, extreme-left-wingers, all kinds of nuts. What is our desh-bhakt bevakoof's reaction - burn everything down! [quote] But the state, birthplace of the 20th-century's apostle of nonviolence Mahatma Mohandas Gandhi, is estimated to have lost Rs 5 billion each day as mob violence, arson and looting brought business there to a standstill. The riots have now subsided. But the Gujarat Chamber of Commerce and Industry estimated the loss to trade and industry at Rs 22.5 billion as of last weekend. [quote] Why not burn the whole country down? That would really teach Babur a lesson! That would really redeem Hindu pride! Thank god for the southies, all the investment and industry can move there if nothing else. Sheeesh... |
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asifmm 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 289 of 5400 ) We Muslims are becoming dogs. Why should we hate others ? We must accept Gujaraat riot was started by us.Blaming Hindus always our tardemark ! Hindus are tolerant people.Muslims are living peacefully in India. Hindus and christians are in horrible conditions in Pakistan. We are killing Hindus and Sikhs in Kashmir. We Muslims need to do some introspection. We request good politicians ,social workers , please rescue us from the plague of ignorance. |
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asifmm 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 290 of 5400 ) We Muslims are becoming dogs. Why should we hate others ? We must accept Gujrat riot was started by us.Blaming Hindus always our tardemark ! Hindus are tolerant people.Muslims are living peacefully in India. Hindus and christians are in horrible conditions in Pakistan. We are killing Hindus and Sikhs in Kashmir. We Muslims need to do some introspection. We request good politicians ,social workers , please rescue us from the plague of ignorance. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 291 of 5400 ) nirmal says "I am all for a uniform civil code. But considering that the people who push for a uniform code are those who try to justify the barbarity in Ahmedabad I'm having second thoughts." That's cutting off your nose to spite your face, pal. Uniform civil code will force a uniform standard of behavior for everyone. I live under a uniform civil code outside India, and I know first hand that it is the ONLY way to screw the extremists on all sides. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 292 of 5400 ) nirmal, "Let me ask you something. Do you think 'secularism' (real secularism, not what you call commie secularism) is good or not. Personally I think it is one of the good things about Hinduism." All I ask is that we use the standard definition of secularism, where all religions are treated equal, rather than the twisted version that seems to be rampant in India where "secularism=anti-hindu". It is almost as if the minorities would like to rub the face of the majority in the dirt, especially since many of the laws on charities and religious places are biased towards minorities, i.e., minorities get tons of freebies that are denied to the majority. Such unequal treament of Indians is not acceptable. |
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Ratan 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 293 of 5400 ) Karappal, Instead of partitioning India further, why not unite the partitioned parts again. If there were going to be riots and demands for Muslims even after taking their piece of cake, then they better stay with Hindus and fight it out. Ultimately, bloods will cool down and we shall learn to stay together peacefully. |
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Ratan 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 294 of 5400 ) Dear Asifmm, I am touched by your honesty. If only we were honest with each other and do self criticism, this problem would die down by itself. |
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Divya 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 295 of 5400 ) Did anyone notice the killing of two innocent hindu civilians just excercising their right to practice religion of their choice through a peaceful yagna in West Bengal? well, they were shot down by the same police 13 of whom were dumbfounded when attacked by two terrorits!! have hindus lost this basic right to pray too? does any one gun down mosques which insist that everyone living aroun them listen to namaz 5 times day through loudspeakers? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 296 of 5400 ) Ratan, Reuniting would be a grievous mistake. If anything, the problems we face today is because partition was not complete. Pakistan and Pakistanis are way too far down the scale of human decency in terms of their behavior, which is quite barbaric and backward thinking. These people would DEFINITELY not be good news for India's future; they have been brainwashed way too much and have way too much hatred for non muslims. What really needs to be done is to ensure that the Indian muslims dont follow the same devious modus operandi that they have followed elsewhere (Kosovo is a fine example): (1) start with some heinous barbaric act on the pretext of separatism or whatever injustice (muslims have the religious duty to become violent if there is an injustice..this is what is called jihad, even though muslims usually lie about this). (2) when their evil designs are exposed, immediately play the victim and put their enemies on the backfoot. (3) At all times, ACT reasonable by claiming that you are all for "dialogue" as long as the dialogue results in the resolution going the way of the muslims....NO COMPROMISES. Now check this behavior with that of the Muslims PErsonal Law Board (which just REFUSED to negotiate with hindus, but still claims that it is "open for dialogue") and of Pakistan. Repeat this enough times, and the muslims get to claim that they have been unjustly treated by the majority. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 297 of 5400 ) Ratan, Muslims cannot live peacefully with non muslims UNLESS AND UNTIL they go through a process of reforming Islam. As far as I can tell, muslims are more busy pointing out the terrorists cannot be muslims, because muslims cannot be evil (circular reasoning of the highest order), than they are trying to question the reasons why Islam seems to create bloodthirsty barbarians whereever it is practised, in fact, Shariat laws have to be some of the most barbaric laws on this planet. But Do you see muslims talking about reform??? I dont, and which is why I suspects muslims are upto no good in the long run and their agenda must be neutralized before it becomes a crisis, but unfortunately, all you pseudo-secular idiots in India will refuse to see the light until people they know get slaughtered or killed by the muslims. Till then, you will remain content spouting inanities about peace and unity. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 298 of 5400 ) Ratan, All western countries are now paying attention to the syllabus of madrassas in their countries and have been appalled to find the overt preaching of hate and violence in some of the largest madrassas in US and Europe. Unfortunately, Indians and especially Indian hindus are too busy trying to appear "fair" and too stupid to see the signs of impending and escalating violence in India. |
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gtomar 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 299 of 5400 ) Please have a look at Vir Sanghvi's column in HT this week-'Looking beyond Ayodhya'. I tried to understand why people are going so violent and it gave me an answer. If you feel it is too long to read, here are few lines - "But Ayodhya only took off as an issue because a large chunk of the middle class also began to feel that secularism had gone too far; that it had become appeasement or an extension of vote-bank politics. This process began with the Shahbano case and was strengthened during the Satanic Verses uproar. It received its greatest boost, however, during the 1989-90 Janata Dal government. " “Politics is as much about perception as it is about reality. The reality is and was that Indian Muslims remain poor, backward and face appalling discrimination in the workplace. But the perception was that they were being pampered by political parties, allowed to retain their own personal law and being represented by leaders who, rather than focusing on their economic problems, spoke of Muslims only in terms of the right to have four wives, to refuse to pay maintenance to divorced women and to assassinate Salman Rushdie. “ “In these circumstances, a Hindu backlash was inevitable and Ayodhya became a symbol of that backlash. It wasn’t that every Hindu who voted for the BJP suddenly decided that Ram had been born on that spot. Instead, he saw the refusal of successive governments to allow a temple to be built in Ayodhya as yet another instance of pandering to Muslims, of allowing their religious demands (personal law etc.) to be treated as legitimate political issues while Hindu religious demands were dismissed as communal in nature. Why, asked Hindus, did Mulayam became secular when he asked Muslims to vote for him while the BJP was called communal when it said it was a Hindu party?” I will leave rest on readers. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 300 of 5400 ) http://opinionjournal.com/columnists/tvaradarajan/?id=105001748 A passable article about India's version of secularism in the Wall Street Journal. Has some good points. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 301 of 5400 ) Karapall -> "While India loses its top talent because of the commie brigade, we can all sit back and watch..." Now did I claim to be talented? I only quoted u (claiming that India is deprived of talent & every tom dick & harry abroad is talented). Ur Madrasa point is well taken. But cornering (esp. all) muslims is counter productive. Education and social revolution is probably the only way to do it. Communal intolerance is only going to breed religious extremism on both sides. Communal harmony is not about going out of ur way to woo muslims. It means peaceful co-existance.We should stop branding people on the basis of religion and rather look upon them as individuals. It's upto educated muslims & hindus to motivate muslims masses to take the path of education & progress rather than religious fundamentalism (the social factor rather than the govt.). If people stop wasting time & energy in mindless communal hatred & invest their communal energies into mainstream work, they'll be doing themsleves & the country a big favor! |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 302 of 5400 ) dear asifmm, u have the right attitude. Insecurity amongst muslims & hindus is breeding all this hatred. The need of the hour is for educated muslims to assert their influence on muslim masses. There should be more encouragement coming from within the muslim community/society towards education. I think rich & well established muslims should take up the social cause & provide monetary support & influence, so that teenagers pursue education rather than getting sucked into the whirlpool of violence through peer groups/gangsters. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 303 of 5400 ) There have been bright & successful muslims (Abdul Kalam, Azim premji..). The problem is that the common muslims are firstly influenced by the Imam, then society & peer groups. What's required is the influence coming from muslims who have made their mark in society to mould the young minds. nowadays, the same challenge is facing hindus. Morons like Ashok Singhal seem to be getting an upper hand, by brainwashing the gullible. hindus should dissociate themselves from such hoodwinks (VHP), pursue role models like Narayana Murthy/Gururaj Deshpande and think constructively about their future, doing good to themselves & to society. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 304 of 5400 ) grohit, do not twist what asifmm said. he is squarely blaming the muslims and he may be a muslim, i believe (by name). let me tell you something, you fucked up secular morons in india (you are not really secular u just hate the hindus)are the resaon india is having communal trouble. people like bukhari, shahabudddin, and nearly all the leadership of the muslijs in india is non-secular and anti-national. these scubags are being encouraged by the congress party and the communist party. example- why are you secular benchots against a common civil code. is their any reason or logic to it. plain and simple you don't have the guts to stanmd up to the truth. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 305 of 5400 ) grohit, you socalled-secular matherchots are the very reason why india will witness a civil war very soon. until and unless the anti-national muslim leadership is not confronted and eliminated india will pay dearly. both hindus and muslims will suffer. Asifmm has the guts to call a spade a spade. he is a true indian muslim who is patriotic. there are good muslims and bad muslims, good hindus and bad hindus. but one thing is certain that muslims as a group are prone to intense communalism that is destructive. those muslims who want muslim laws to govern them should go to pakistan and they should be accepted by pakistan. those muslims who want secular laws - common laws for all should stay in india. that was the intent of partition but nehru and gandhi screwed it up. it is still not too late for the so-called secularists to wake up and reverse the perverse philosophy of appeasement that is going on in india. bukhari, shahabuddin and gang should be jailed forthwith for sedition and strict action taken against anti-national forces. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 306 of 5400 ) grohit, ashok singhal is not a criminal, you are with your fucked up attitudes about secularism. sucking up to bukhari, dawood ibrahim, and the gang is not secularism. that is going on for 50 years resulting in the present situation. kalam and premji are good indians, but the vast majority of muslims draw their inspiration not form them but from bin laden and bukhari. that is the problem. you are afucking moron trying to compare singhal with these anti-national bastards. singhal is only trying to point out the gross irrationality of indian secularism. where were you when the supreme court vverdict on shah bano was being undermined by Rajiv Gandhi. he is sucking muslim dick for their votes. where were you when congress goondas were killing patriotic sikhs in delhi. the congress motherfuckers and idiots like you are responsible for the current situation. not singhal. |
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mallikvs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 307 of 5400 ) The 'Pakistan-Hindustan' article looks so biased and build up story to me |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 308 of 5400 ) The famous English woman philosopher Dr. Annie Besant also had much praise for India, as written in the cover notes from the book, Hindus, Life-Line of India, by G. M. Jagtiani. Her words put great emphasis on the value of India, its history, the Vedic culture, and its importance to the world. She says: "After a study of some forty years and more of the great religions of the world, I find none so perfect, none so scientific, none so philosophic, and none so spiritual as the great religion known by the name of Hinduism. The more you know it, the more you will love it; the more you try to understand it, the more deeply you will value it. Make no mistake; without Hinduism, India has no future. Hinduism is the soil into which India's roots are struck, and torn of that she will inevitably wither, as a tree torn out from its place. Many are the religions and many are the races flourishing in India, but none of them stretches back into the far dawn of her past, nor are they necessary for her endurance as a nation. Everyone might pass away as they came and India would still remain. But let Hinduism vanish and what is she? A geographical expression of the past, a dim memory of a perished glory, her literature, her art, her monuments, all have Hindudom written across them. And if Hindus do not maintain Hinduism, who shall save it? If India's own children do not cling to her faith, who shall guard it? India alone can save India, and India and Hinduism are one." |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 309 of 5400 ) The discussion on this site is so much lopsided against the Muslims. Muslims ruled over India for 800 years and their reign was very peaceful and full of harmony. Think of it this way, if Muslims wanted to kill Hindus or forcibly convert them to Islam, they could have done it easily. They had absolute power, and nobody to challenge them. We are talking about mughal period and so on, in those days there was no news, or TV or Internet or human rights or United Nations. They could have gotten away with Hindu genocide if they wanted, but they were very tolerant. Hindus are ruling India for the last 50 years and thousands of Muslims have been killed in India in the last 50 years. I wonder who is intolerant more, Hindus or Muslims. stop the Muslim bashing please, for u r only hurting yourself and India in the process. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 310 of 5400 ) "ramesh12" -- your fucking argument to bloody lopsided too! just because there was no tv or internet does not mean that they could go on a killing spree (which by the way was their favourite pass time: killing the kaffirs aka hindus) so go and fuck your own logic.. don't display you shit logic in puublic |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 311 of 5400 ) you didckhead, u didn't understand my point, I was trying to say that Muslims could have done that and gotten away with it, but they did not do it. now we Hindus are killing Muslims under the watchful eyes of the world, so Muslims could have done the same and even worse when there was no checks. If Muslims are as bad as u made them out to be, they could have killed lot of Hindus when they had absolute powers and nobody to check them but they did not do it, and that negates the theory that Muslim religion is bad per se. Agreed that some Muslim rulers must have looted and killed, but there are always some bad people and the Muslim rule on India for over 800 years was very progressive. we have to accept that we Hindus do not know how to rule. We have never ruled, the so called Indus valley civilization, Ram rule, etc. are pre historic and cant separate myth from reality. in the recent histoy of the last 1000 years, Hindus have ruled India in the last 50 years only and that is the worst communal phase of the history. Doesn't that tell u something? Hindus are not tolerant at all. I am from the south and we live in peace with Muslims there, the communal hatred and hiduvata crap is all in the north. yes there are bad elements in the Muslims too, but then the VHP, RSS and BJP are worse with state sponsored terrorism. u historically ignorant people need to wake up! |
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sarah 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 312 of 5400 ) Karapall, My concern was not that west is civilized and we are left out. I completely agree with you after all we should not look all time at west for solutions. Also, measuring the growth in civilisation from western yardstick only gives a fragmented view. The whole point is that can any religion either hindu, muslim or christianity superceed human existence. Why are we being hypocrite about religion- How can building of temple or damage of structural parts be more worthy than human life. Aren't we fooling ourselves with the name of religion- see there is no point in blaming hindus or muslims but to realise the fact that religion is a false escape. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 313 of 5400 ) Hurrah! The Supremecourt's ruling is a victory for civil society and secularism. The ball is now in the Govt's court to enforce the order. Let the whole world know that the fanatics from VHP and Bhajrangdal are an extremist fringe and do not represent the vast majority of peace-loving Indians. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 314 of 5400 ) Ramesh, you have shown how much you know about Indian history. Please read something more than comic books. You dont find hindus killed and converted during the muslim rule. Do you mean to say that the 40 crore muslims of the subcontinent ( 14c India, 14.5 c Pakistan and 12 c Bangladesh) are all offsprings of the 40,000 soldiers of Babar or the 50,000 soldiers of Lodhi. If you check the record of historians, you will also know that 8 crore hindus were murdered between 1000 AD and 1500 AD. Also to remind you that the most liberal of the Mughals, Akbar, when he finally captured Chittaur after a seize of many months, let his frustration out on the public by burning down the whole city. And Aurangzeb had created history in Kashmir by butchering so many brahmins that he collected a hundred pounds of their holy strings daily. Guru Teg Bahadur the ninth guru of the sikhs had to intervene and ask Aurungzeb to stop it and he was beheaded for it. Dont you know how Allaudin Khilji destroyed Nalanda university and burned so many ancient texts that he cooked the meals of a 100,000 soldiers for a month using them. Mr Ramesh, your comments only expose your hypocrisy and ignorance. |
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vibha 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 315 of 5400 ) All of you might feel that my view on this topic is very diplomatic, but I am just being practical, riots break out not because of any single community. One acts on impulse the other retaliates, small issues are blown out of proportion and then things get too hot to handle.I believe that the person who sparks off the fight is as much to be blamed as the one who adds fuel to it all. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 316 of 5400 ) ramesh12 matherchot, where have you come from you imbecile. are you used to fucking your own mother and sister that your mouth is so fowl with lies. you shit eating matherchot, you say you come from the south and that there is no problem with muslims there. which fucking disney world are you living in benchot. forget about past muslim atrocities, even recently 1n 1947 a million or more hindus were killed by muslims. the communal conflagration was started by the muslims you empty headed gandu (butt fucker). you southern morons like topcat and yourself are living in a dreamland thinking you are fucking superior. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 317 of 5400 ) ramesh12 matherchot, i have lived in the south too, it is no different from the north. muslim communalism is alive and well in the south. madras and kerala are hell holes of mulsim communal activity. caste divisions are just as strong in the south as in the north. the reddys, kammas, kapus, goudas, lingayats, nadars all at each others throats. don't live in a glass house and throw stones at others you sister fucking bastard. the south was relatively isolated form muslim atrocities but not immune to it. yes, there were many good muslim rulers and there were some very bad ones. how do you think 40% of the subcontinent is muslim today. do you think all of that was voluntary. the pandits in kashmir were slaughtered by the moguls. at nalanda, thousands of buddhist monks were slaughtered by muslims virtually ending buddhism in india. just because you have a prejudice against hindi and the north, do not lie about history. we have enough of that already. go fuck your mother, that is your pastime you bastard. |
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Calive 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 318 of 5400 ) Dear My India, You should know that you are first human then hindu or something else. Hindus recently brutally killed muslims in Gujarat riots . Can't you know that there is the same red colour blood in hindus as in muslims and others. VHP is a communal minded group and is trying to push 50 crores indian muslims into Pakistan. But you should know that India is a largest democratic state in the world. It was due to the muslims leaders that India acquired independence. I am sure if the VHP and RSS continued their anti-muslim policies the time will soon come when there will be another partition. The best solution to the burning Ayudhia Issue is that hindus may be given another place for building their Ram Temple and the sacred babri mosque may be rebuilt so that the mulims of the country can heave a sigh of relief. VHP and RSS should take a wise decision by not building temple there as the future generations of the muslims will demolish the temple sometime and the conflict will continue. It is the shame for the largest democracy that the police remained mute spectator when the hindu communal and fundamental forces were brutally killing innocent muslims. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 319 of 5400 ) I agree with Ramesh. In the south there are hardly any problems between Hindus and Muslims. Come to think of it, there are no such problems in Punjab, Haryana, West Bengal, the North-east States etc. The problems seem to be concentrated in the Hindi belt, plus Gujarat. May be there are too many "infies" (Naipaul's word for scum) like luwman there? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 320 of 5400 ) Calive, How about showing some compassion for hindus too, you bigoted asshole. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 321 of 5400 ) upholders of hinduism huh?? Do u know what is hinduism? Do u know what the Bhagavadgeeta is all about? It's not about killing. It's about identifying ur DUTY/responsibility, then having identified, it's about execution of the duty. It's about righteousness. Krishna preaches that PASSION should not guide ur actions. Duty should guide ur actions. The mind should be free of EMOTIONS, PASSION, ANGER (which come in the way of rational thinking). So what can we infer from all the bullshitting by phoenix, luvvman, karapall & their likes (BTW, Karapall does show signs of sanity as compared to the former 2). The inference is that these goons masquerading in the name of Hinduism r infact hard core ISLAMIC fanatics. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 322 of 5400 ) Beneath the veil of pseudo Hinduism, they have shunned Hinduism & r knowingly or unknowingly practicing RADICAL ISLAM. Hinduism has an inherent philosophy & hoodlums of the likes of Ashok Singhal practise EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what is being taught in the vedas & Bhagavad Geeta. No doubt their thinking (jarred by blind irrational fanaticism) is very much on the lines of Mullah Omar, Laden & Co. Rama would have cried in SHAME had he seen all this destruction/blood shed/hatred in the name of hinduism. The last word :- u pseudo Hindu(radical Islamic) scumbags have demonstrated that u r gullible. That whatever modicum of intelligence was there has been wiped clean by Ashok Singhal and his sidekicks. My sincere suggestion to u guys is to format ur brain clean & reinstall all hinduism related software, which BTW is totally corrupt in ur systems. Try the Bhagavad Geeta for starters. So b4 arguing about Hinduism, do take some trouble to pour over Hindu scriptures to get an essence of what Hinduism really is. I'm not engaging in a war of words. I really mean it. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 323 of 5400 ) grohit, If you are done frothing at the mouth, I aint no champion of hinduism, which you clearly are!!! I am sure hindu mahants like you can explain to me why hindus as a group seem to be the most cowardly bunch of worthless dipshits on the planet. These suckers will sell their own mother or banish themselves to the forest for 14 years just to make themselves appear "civilized". You are a brainwashed imbecile, grohit, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 324 of 5400 ) grohit, Do carry on with your message of peace and tolerance, especially since your ass is far away from islamic bigots who dont respect rule of law. Isn't is cool that the muslims behave nicely in western countries which have their balls in a vice. Only in India, cretins like grohit will rationalize the overtly communal behavior of muslims, and then claim that the hindu response to this behavior goes against the spirit of hinduism. grohit needs to win the darwin award this year. He is definitely bringing down the quality of the human gene pool along with this muslim friends. |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 325 of 5400 ) luvvmann and Karapall Your mind is full of hatred and u cannot see reason. When USA was attacked, and thousands of people killed in WTC, the Americans did not went on rampage killing innocent civilians. They went after the group responsible for the killings. I think that is a civilized way of doing things. VHP, BJP and Modi have justified the rioting and killings of innocent Muslims as a natural consequence of train attack. While the train attack is such a coward act and those responsible should be punished to the fullest extent, but a reasonable person cannot comprehend as to why kill innocent Muslims for something, which they have not done or are responsible. By killing innocents through state sponsored terrorism, we have ashamed Hinduism, ashamed India, and ourselves. We have shown that we are cowards who cannot go after the main culprits but kill innocent women and children of the minority community ( I know innocent Hindus are killed in train, but please go after those who did it, that is the right response). We are so coward that we cannot go after the responsible groups but kill innocents in the veil of BJP government and police support. On top of that justifying it was right is just fanatic, it shows our communal mind full of hatred and venom. That's shy we are so backward, and despite having a nuclear bomb, and a population of 1 billion we are not respected anywhere in the world, and that's why US is a superpower, because they use reason. People like Luvvmann and karappall should shut their mouth and stop preaching hatred and stop justifying their views, which are simply illogical. if you have balls, go after the killers of train massacre and go fight in Kashmir instead of posting messages here. You are a disgrace to India and u r harming India's interests and India is so backward because of people like u. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 326 of 5400 ) ramesh12, Do you know the number of muslims in american prisons without a warrant?? Do you know that america has killed approx. 70000 muslims who supported the bombing of the WTC?? Now, I support wiping out all these vermin, but the lesson from this for morons like you is that the world only listens to those who use force and violence. A perfect example is the sight of dipshits like you shitting in your pants at the thought of the violence muslims in India will indulge in, if they are unhappy for whatever reason. India is toilet-bowl of a country, that is for sure, especially if its citizens are of your ilk. Do you have any brains or self-preservation instincts at all, you wortless piece of hindu shit. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 327 of 5400 ) grohit, pussies like you who piss in your pants at the thought of confrontation should start wearing miniskirts and mascara. Hindus are being pissed on today PRECISELY BECAUSE they are most docile, fragmented, disunited, wimpy bunch of dipshits to roam this planet who can flatulate for hours on end on mindless worthless philosophical bullshit that is not worth the paper it is written on.... and you are a perfect example of such cowardly dipshits who have no more right to live on this planet than a cockroach. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 328 of 5400 ) http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/130302/dLNAT03.asp Check out this article. Muslims dipshits with the support of pussies like ramesh12 are now deliberately conducting prayers on March 15th because the hindu sants have talked about it as their date. Maybe one of the secular dipshits floating around could tell how the muslims are behaving responsibly right now. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 329 of 5400 ) ramesh12, it is not enough to "condemn" the godhra violence. You should note that the press and the opposition parties are essentially refusing to investigate the Godhra riots to the extent they are the post-Godhra riots. Clearly, you are too stupid to note the dangerous precedents that were set long ago that have resulted in this kind of idiocy where muslim culprits and murderers get a free pass from the press because they are muslims and hence "secular". Can you say "Vote bank"? |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 330 of 5400 ) Mr. Ramesh, come to the US to see why this country is so great. Here people are so full of nationalism. They are proud of this country and would defend their country till the very end. Dont be fooled to think that the US is a paradise. Of all the jail inmates 75% are black american. Till 1967 blacks were not allowed to send their children to the school of the whites. Black people had to sit in the back of the buses. Even still blacks and mexicans are not found in high positions. Yet nobody badmouths their country. They know they have problems and are trying to solve it. But they always focus the positive aspect of their society. After the WTC crisis all people joined ranks and went after the perpetuators while one day after the parliament attack our opposition instead of joining ranks started blaming the government for inadequate security. The whites are a unique race who at the moment of crisis stand shoulder to shoulder to face it whereas we start stabbing each other in the back. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 331 of 5400 ) Mr. Ramesh, come to the US to see why this country is so great. Here people are so full of nationalism. They are proud of this country and would defend their country till the very end. Dont be fooled to think that the US is a paradise. Of all the jail inmates 75% are black american. Till 1967 blacks were not allowed to send their children to the school of the whites. Black people had to sit in the back of the buses. Even still blacks and mexicans are not found in high positions. Yet nobody badmouths their country. They know they have problems and are trying to solve it. But they always focus the positive aspect of their society. After the WTC crisis all people joined ranks and went after the perpetuators while one day after the parliament attack our opposition instead of joining ranks started blaming the government for inadequate security. The whites are a unique race who at the moment of crisis stand shoulder to shoulder to face it whereas we start stabbing each other in the back. No wonder they have prospered. |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 332 of 5400 ) Two wrongs cannot make a right. I was reading the story of a Muslim family of 7 burnt alive with 5 kids ranging from 2 years to 12 years. I'm sure a two year old Hindu child and a Hindu woman is killed in the train massacre. The point I was making is that by burning alive 5 innocent Muslim children what have we achieved? they were not the ones responsible for the train massacre. I'm all for finding the culprits behind the train massacre and bringing them to justice but no amount of your illogical explanation would justify killing of Muslim children who were not responsible for the attack. (and unfortunately, we Hindus are proud of our actions), All we have done it demonstrated that we Hindus cannot think logical and we are engulfed in blind Muslim hatred otherwise you wouldn't be justifying killing of innocent Muslims. We don't have the balls to go after the culprits but we killed innocent children and women in lanes and bylanes and attacked homes in thousands with swords and trishuls. Do u call this as an act of bravery? if this is bravery then Hinduism is doomed. Cant u understand this simple logic u shithead instead of justifying ur irrational logic which would only bring bad name to Hinduism and India. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 333 of 5400 ) Mr. Ramesh, You say that Hindu rioters should not have targeted innocent people but instead gone after the culprits of Godhra massacre. Then you went ahead in saying that all Hindus are cowards for allowing that to happen. By using your same logic, should you not have accused just the rioters instead of accusing the whole Hindu community. Who is the biggest coward here? Also by your same logic, aren't all muslims cowards then for not talking to the VHP about the Ayodhya problem but instead killing innocent karsevaks. Mr. Ramesh, you are so full of hypocrisy that you are a right candidate for becoming a politician. |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 334 of 5400 ) I'm not naïve to brand all Hindus as cowards, I'm calling only those who attacked and those who support the attack, by the way those supporting the attacks are in millions, yeah I'm calling them cowards. I'm the first one to say that those who attacked the kar sevaks are cowards and should be punished and I don't justify their act, neither do I try to justify killings of innocent Muslims who had nothing to do with the train massacre. My point was that killing innocent Muslim children is very cowardly act and should be condemned by all Hindus, instead of justifying it as millions of Hindus are justifying it and Chief minister modi and all the leaders of VHP, Bajrang Dal, RSS are rationalizing. These Hindus (who by the way are in minority) are blot on the face of Hinduism. You and many other Hindus, who are in millions, are not only justifying the revenge attacks but also supporting them. I call all of them cowards and don't try to rationalize your stupid logic. You have only one agenda that is Muslim bashing and spewing hatred against Muslims, which only harms India. You are neither patriotic nor do u care about India in ur madness and hatred. India would be so much better off without VHP, BJP, and RSS and communal shitheads like u. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 335 of 5400 ) Ramesh, Oh guardian of the oppressed and paragon of justice and virtue, please do expound on the cosmic tangle that resulted in another riot in godhra today started by -- you guessed it -- "a minority community". Maybe you could explain why the muslim community is not being named REGARDLESS of the communal atrocities they commit. Yet, we have shitheads like you trying to rationalize this kind of behavior with the same kind of excuses used by the marxist dinosaurs in India. |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 336 of 5400 ) I condemn the recent attacks and also hope the law of the land takes control on the situation instead of handing over the contrl to the VHP fanatics like the previous occasion. I'm not a hindu basher,i'm just critical of my own religion and have common sense. You are a muslim basher and u r not patriotic. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 337 of 5400 ) Karapall, u horribly twisted, abhorrent, demented sonfagun, u have proved that u r a branded ANTI HINDU who eats, sleeps & drinks anti Hindu sentiment. & what r u capable of doing u pusillanimous, pigeon hearted poltroon?? All u can ever get to do is sit behing the flourescent screen & type loads and loads of goble de gook filled with the intolerable stench of ur irrational, shit loaded, asinine fantasies. U desperately need laxatives to clear ur constipated head, u fucked up baboon. Go GET A LIFE. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 338 of 5400 ) But what do u have? no brain no pain. Can't even dream of a sexy job, money, career. Girlfriends??? HAAH! Forget it dude.. This obnoxious dickhead is a total failure in life. Be a man u puerile fuckin scumbag! Get up & face life's challenges & achieve ur victory. The loser that u r, u r fit only for filling ur empty head with shitloads of fanaticism. Go burn down houses, run around streets with lathis like small under developed kids. Burn urself in hell while the rest of the world pursues much more "worldly" matters. I tried, rationalizing with u dickheads, to lift u out of this quagmire. But why should I waste time arguing with brainless vermins like u? Nothing short of a mental asylum is going to help u. My 2 pennies for ur convoluted thoughts, while I race ahead with my personal life, career and dollars... |
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mumbai77 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 339 of 5400 ) ramesh12, you seem to be rehashing some of the earlier arguments used on this board which I've read before. |
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gks 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 340 of 5400 ) I hink we should bring some peaace here in this section. Form a panel of 50 people (Only people no politicians), Ask Muslims to nominate 10 Hindus, Hindus to Muslim, Sikhs to Christians and so on. Let them discuss and come out with the soultion. That will be collective decision and all parties in Loksabha agree to sign off the decision. I hope we may get a win win situation here. Kind regards, |
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galaxy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 341 of 5400 ) The Prime Minister of India, and the NDA government needs to be sacked forthwith. Despite his protestations to the contrary, The PM has been performing in an entirely partisan manner. Despite the double speak, he has clearly placed himself as the representative and protector of the fascist RSS and its satellites. His actions are contrary to promises to the nation in the NDA agenda and his oath on taking office. Despite his assurances at maintaining the status quo and upholding the rule of the law, he has clearly cast his pathetic lot ENTIRELY with the VHP in order to subvert the status quo and to give a `slant¿ to the `status quo¿ in order to alter it. In stepping out of the closet, the government has clearly shown itself as FAR FROM IMPARTIAL and unfit to govern this vast, multicultural polity. It is the irony of our times, that the very organizations that could easily qualify as `terrorist¿ and are truly `fascist¿ and could be banned and purged from the presence of any civilized society, has loyal `Sevaks¿ in the Prime Minister and the Home Minister of India! The power hungry saffron socialists who have been propping up a government that has been ¿ransomed to the fascist RSS¿ are indeed the Pall bearers of the Progressive Constitution of India. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 342 of 5400 ) I think communal parties like Congress, CPI , SAMAJVADI , RJD and Muslim leagues are behind all the problems in India. Their support for the massacre of Hindus in KASHMIR and GODHRA exposes their communal bias. These parties should be banned. They are to be dealt with an iron hand. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 343 of 5400 ) i agree with thetruth. if the communist and congress parties continue their devious secularism which is not secularism at all, we are in for trouble again. sensible leaders in the muslim community (if there are any at all) should stop their community from being used by these goons. i doubt that will happen. things will head for a showdown leading to millions of deaths. it is time for the hindus to unite (if that is possible) and kick the communists and the congresswallas out. if not sorry my friends, bloodshed is inevitable. Ramesh12 , you are very naive. Bleeding heart non-sense will not work. America will never allow anything of the sort going on in india. Muslims will be slaughtered in America if they behave the same as in india. wake up an smell the roses. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 344 of 5400 ) Ramesh says: "I'm not a hindu basher,i'm just critical of my own religion and have common sense." Sure, pal. I am just waiting for the likes of you to get slaughtered in the big bloodbath that approaches, assuming that current trends in "Indian secularism" (as opposed to real secularism) carry on. Other than the usual naive bleeding heart nonsense that you claim is "commonsense", there is little of import that you say that is anyway connected to reality. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 345 of 5400 ) grohit, Now, now, getting abusive are we, Mr. NRI?? tsk tsk. Brainless hindu dipshits like you should try to look in your pants to see if you have some balls, or maybe they were removed at birth to ensure that you a true hindu. Either way it seems to have worked. Secondly, I think you should stop worrying about my erstwhile quality of life. You can rest assured that if you are one of the Indian programming dipshits then you should be worried about your own future than you should be about mine. Thirdly, self-loathing hindu turds like you deserve all the pain and suffering you will endure from the hands of other religions in the near future. It would be a pleasure to see you burn, pal, and you can be assured that if you and your hindu family burns to death, the "secular" Indian media will make sure it stays uninvestigated. Truly, you are the kind of dork that deserves an indifferent death. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 346 of 5400 ) All you stuppid hindu dipshits who seem to defend the ignoring of the hindu deaths in Godhra deserve a similar fate to those killed in Godhra. Then, third parties could ignore all your deaths with the same contempt displayed by the Indian "secular" community. Truly, "secular" Indian hindu dipshits deserve to be crushed underfoot as they have been for the past millenium. You truly are the most loathsome cowardly bunch of snotbags on the face of this planet. Luckily, as a non-practising christian, I can say that my ilk has definitely demonstrated a better sense of self-preservation than you "Secular" hindu snotbags. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 347 of 5400 ) Of course, the "secular" hindus I am bashing are usually totally ignorant of their religion and have usually grown up on a diet of MTV and corn pops. Rabid hindu extremists (much as they are loathesome) are necessary to ward off the growing influence of rabid muslim extremists who have controlled Islam in India for the past few decades. Cowardly pussies like grohit and ramesh will only be aiding the abetting the muslims extremists in their rather devious game plan. Remember, you heard it here first. |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 348 of 5400 ) Karapall and Luvvman U bastards would never understand and u r responsible for the backwardness of india, you are mad with muslim hatred and seem to attribute all problems on mulims. By doing so u r indirectly implying that 80% hindus are being controlled by less tahn 20% muslims. You bastards have no common sense, you cannot think, or reason. You will remain rotten and backward. I'm not wasting my time on u fnatic bastards. go to hell! |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 349 of 5400 ) ramesh, My point is that the 20% muslims have shown more brains and PR savvy in protecting their islamic interests than the 80% hindu dipshits like you. Get it? Since when did religion have anything to do with "reason and thinking"? In fact, the barbarism of muslims and islam and the lack of reason and thinking among muslims is the issue here. Mohammed Atta was given a good education and had a good life, yet he chose to slam a plane into the WTC. This is the kind of hard-core attitude that is rising amongst muslims in India. Hindu dipshits like you think that appeasing them will do the trick. You are wrong because it has been tried elsewhere and failed. You should first read and analyze the actions of the so-called secular muslim leadership, and notice how adept they have become at the PR game. The hindu dipshits in the VPH and RSS, on the other hand, have no brains for PR and are always on the backfoot, especially since hindus like you work for pro-muslim PR. You will face the music from the muslims in the end, make no mistake about it. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 350 of 5400 ) Ramesh, All I can say is that you seem to be indulging in wishful thinking. You have rationalized your behavior where in you think that muslims are actually secular in character. If that were the case, do you think they would have ethnically cleansed kashmir of non muslim kashmiris?? In fact, yasim Malik, Abdullah Bukhari and other muslims "leaders" have openly stated that islam does not go hand in hand with secularism. Only hindu dipshits like you live in a make-believe world where muslims are actually secular. These are simple facts you need to face about islam, failing which all you would be doing is delaying the inevitable confrontation with the muslims. Muslims can be kept in check only by force, as can be seen all over the world today. |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 351 of 5400 ) Yaar , Ram ka message phailao duniyan bhar mein. Shanti lao. Ram ka naam lene ke sath sath kaam bhi Ram-compatible hone ko mangta ki nahin? Violence chhodo, violin bazao - pyar badhega. Ideological divide ko prem se khatm karo - chaloo aur garam rhetoric se nahin. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 352 of 5400 ) Karapall, You sound like the people who enjoyed killing the poor pilgrims at Godhra. You sound like the people who killed young children on the streets of ahmedabad. Abuse all you want, you pus-filled low-life, we will fight you and we will win. Why will we win? Because, we non-fanatic hindus stand for something that has endured 5000 years. You stand for nothing except revenge and violence. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 353 of 5400 ) raul benchot, where did u get the idea that the south is a paradise and the north is not. you say there are no hindu muslim problems in the south, as though you are some superior fucking beings. i have lived in the south - what u are talking is non-sense. which fucking sewer hole do u live in nincompoop. are you fucking retarded. muslims in the south are no different from muslims anywhere. they are fucking communal where ever they are from. and there is no muslim problem in bengal and the northeast. you fucked up moron, the only real problem that exists in bengal and the northeast is the muslim problem. why do you think bangladesh exists, for fun you scumbag. hundreds of thousands of hindus were slaughtered in bengal you ignorant foolish shit eating pig. don'y fucking exhibit your fucking ignorance. it is an offence to the brain. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 354 of 5400 ) raul benchot, where did u get the idea that the south is a paradise and the north is not. you say there are no hindu muslim problems in the south, as though you are some superior fucking beings. i have lived in the south - which fucking sewer hole do u live in nincompoop. are you fucking retarded. muslims in the south are no different from muslims anywhere. they are fucking communal where ever they are and there is no muslim problem in bengal and the northeast? you fucked up moron, the only real problem that exists in bengal and the northeast is the muslim problem. why do you think bangladesh exists, for fun you scumbag. hundreds of thousands of hindus were slaughtered in bengal you ignorant foolish shit eating pig. don't fucking exhibit your fucking ignorance. it is an offence to the brain. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 355 of 5400 ) pmishra2, you retarded bleeding heart benchot. why are you lying about your proud 5000 years. hindusim has endured for 5000 years. and that is the accomplishment you are proud of. why. what about the thousand years of slavery under the muslims and british due to non-violent and civilized hindus like you who are so very fond of one sided secularism and non-violence. you cowardly bastard, the downfall of hinduism is a direct result of the over emphasis on non-violence and cowardice. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 356 of 5400 ) p[mishra2, you make me throw up with your utter bullshit. why are you blaming the RSS and the VHP for communal violence when it is a direct result of muslim communal behavior. why don't you blame gandhi and nehru for the carnage in 1947. because you want to continue to lie and support your socalled intellectualism and minority appeasement. the violence in india is a direct result of muslim communalism aided and abetted by the hindu left and psuedo secularists. anbedkar (a dalit) and Patel (greatest nationalist) had warned of this and other dangers a long time ago. your indecent and misguided secularism which is no secularism at all is the root cause of the violence in india. go clean that empty cowardly brain of yours and call a spade a spade, you ignorant benchot. |
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ksramesh 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 357 of 5400 ) The Hindu fundamentalist talks of a UNITED INDIA or AKHAND BHARAT, whereas the Islamic fundamentalist doesn't want India. He wants Pakistan. So, do not equate the Hindu fundamentalist with the Muslim fundamentalist. It is a disgrace to you. Why has the media not reported anything on the Godhra carnage? |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 358 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava The humbug of Mr George Fernandes By Brian Cloughley The Nation Pk At ground zero in Godhra Saeed Naqvi in IE Bush: Israeli Forces Should Leave By Barry Schweid, AP Diplomatic Writer Thursday, March 14, 2002; 3:14 PM Both sides say peace mission doomed By Ross Dunn, Herald Correspondent in Jerusalem and agencies in SMH Ayodhya Muslims live in dread By Sanjoy Majumder BBC News Online correspondent in Ayodhya America as nuclear rogue : IHT/The New York Times K on Buddha and more Eye of the media : It wasn¿t a conventional riot in Gujarat By A.J. PHILIP 4 IE Hindus set to defy ban on mosque ceremony By Beth Duff-Brown, AP, in Delhi in The Independent |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 359 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava How the air marshal almost flew into a war By Rahul Bedi in New Delhi 4 The Telegraph Indian PM faces storm in parliament over temple (Reuters) @ Yahoo That's Rich: National Review's editor suggests nuking Mecca. We're not kidding. prospect.org Anti-anti-war crowd dreams up a disloyal opposition Walter Shapiro USA TODAY Vajpayee hides behind militant smokescreen By Sudha Ramachandran, Asia Times India braces for sectarian showdown Yahoo Provincial Gujarat gripped by sectarian violence By Harish Desai, AP, in Ahmedabad The Independent Israeli Army Fires on Hotel Where Journalists Were Filming Assault on Al-Amari Refugee Camp The Associated Press |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 360 of 5400 ) Luwman, there is a saying in my mother tongue which goes like "do not throw a stone on a pile of shit, because the shit splashes back on you". You are a pile of shit, Luwman and I regret having thrown stones at you. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 361 of 5400 ) Luwman, there is a saying in my mother tongue which goes like "do not throw a stone on a pile of shit, because the shit splashes back on you". Yor are that pile of shit, Luwman and I regret having thrown stones at you. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 362 of 5400 ) Luwman, there is a saying in my mother tongue which goes like "do not throw a stone on a pile of shit, because the shit splashes back on you". Yor are that pile of shit, Luwman and I regret having thrown stones at you. |
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ihatepak 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 363 of 5400 ) All the murderers must be punished. They deserve the most brutal Punishment.All the assholes in Godhra who burnt alive 58 innocents and all the scoundrels who burnt alive 200+ innocents in Ahmedabad must be brought to justice. Justice will be done with their death . They are butchers , fucking bundle of hate and ignorance. Don't think which religions they follow , just pusnish , hang them. |
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ihatepak 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 364 of 5400 ) Who is this asshole tathagat, I don't know. But this raskel is nothing more than hopeless fanatic. This bastard is shouting all kind of anti-hindu slogans. What a fucking moron ! It will only make the Hindu fabatics happier, YOU FOOL. |
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ihatepak 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 365 of 5400 ) Who is this asshole tathagat, I don't know. But this raskel is nothing more than hopeless fanatic. This bastard is shouting all kind of anti-hindu slogans. What a fucking moron ! It will only make the Hindu fabatics happier, YOU FOOL. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 366 of 5400 ) luwmann, Please be careful --- one day you might choke on your own irrational hatred and fall sick. The most pathetic thing is this: the concept and nation-state of India has won the battle ! Indians are more educated and confident, their economy is growing, they run the biggest companies in the world. Pakistan is finished, finished, finished. It is going to degenerate into one more third-rate "-stan" standing for nothing but backwardness and sectarian hatred. In 20 years time, Pakistani professionals will be begging for "saffron cards" to come work in India! And what do our own hate-filled people want? They want India to become more like Pakistan. They condone killings of innocent indians as "revenge". They want to become exactly like an islamic terrorists. Why dont you go to Saudi Arabia and convert Luwmann? Their religion and belief system is exactly like yours. They spout the same trash --- only the word hindu is replaced by islam. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 367 of 5400 ) tathagat, Now that you quote Brian Cloughley, I KNOW that you are a paki. For people not in the know, BRian Cloughley and most of the other articles posted by tathagat are paid for by the paki army. Just do a google search on Brian Cloughley and you will see all the anti-india/pro-pakistan articles he has written. Tathagat, pakis like you should worry about your own country which is being flushed down the commode of history. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 368 of 5400 ) pmishra2, Luwmann is right about muslims being equally communal in the south. In fact, madani and his terrorist gang at Al Umma set of 25 bombs in coimbatore in 1998. This is sufficient evidence as far as I am concerned; I guess nothing short of having a family member killed in islamic terror violence will suffice as far as you are concerned. Phooey. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 369 of 5400 ) karapall, FYI a large part of my family originates from J&K. They belong to the hindu minority which has been terrorized and driven out of there. I have relatives who have fled from Srinagar to Delhi. Other relatives have been shot at and have had to abandon property north of Jammu. No one disagrees that islamic culture is extremely backward today. The question is how to respond to it: I claim that killing innocent people (as in Ahmedabad) is wrong. It doesn't matter if Islam is the most backward religion in the world, which it may well be. If Indian culture becomes like wahhabi islam (as opposed to sufi or other forms) we will truly have destroyed ourselves. |
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sarah 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 370 of 5400 ) Muslims all over the world are disillusioned they are desperate to reassure their identity. There is severe threat to entire world with their affinity towards hard-core attitude. Thinking in Indian context they are categorized as minorities who have been the victims and sufferers. But this simply does not appeal to our reasons. What argument are we to put for the success of parsees? Are they not minorities? Still the fact remains that they stand out largely towards the growth of our nation. Muslims need to come out of their closets. Islam that Mohammed propagated seems to be injured and wounded these retaliations are part of an injured Islam. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 371 of 5400 ) sarah, You have an excellent point. Why just the parsees, there are many minorities in India who have excelled. These includes christians, sikhs, and jains. These people have (mostly) a forward looking orientation. They want their kids to get a technical education and better their lives. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 372 of 5400 ) Hindu lives have no value . Ask Jaipal Reddy , ask Mulayam , Ask Sonia , Ask Arundhati Roy . Hindu lives have no value for them. Ask Vinod Mehta , Ask Lalloo ...Same answer .. Hindu lives have no value.... NDTV knows Hindu lives have no value .... Somnath Chatterjee and all his anti-hindu gang has nothing to say against massacres of Hindus in Pakistan , Bangladesh and India ... But they will protest alongside Imam Bukhari when America attacks Taliban .... Ask rundi Roy to write an essay on Kashmiri Hindu pandits even in less then 10000 words ... She won't , she will prefer plaestine .... Hindu lives are so cheap for them ... No wonder Muslim dons always get away with murdering Hindus |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 373 of 5400 ) Plight of Hindus in Pakistan Kanayalal M. Talreja ************************** Mr. Talreja was born in 1936 at Dist. Sukkur, (Sindh,Pakistan). After the partition of the country, he stayed in Sindh for 17 years, and obtained M.A. degree in English literature from University of Sind in 1962. He was a first position holder upto the University examinations.He was awarded four medals by the Governor of West Pakistan. He launched his career as a primary teacher and reached the position of lecturer in English at Government College Sukkur.He fought dauntlessly for the rights of Hindus in Pakistan, and liberated famous Sadhubella Temple from the grip of Pakistan Government in 1962. In Sindh, he championed the cause of the depressed and down-traded Hindus. He migrated to Bharat in 1964. The following is the account of his years in Pakistan after 1947: "During those days, I saw every where total contempt for Hindu and their gods. Hindus are treated as untouchables and served water or tea in separate glasses and are not to visit Muslim houses. The plight of Hindu girls and women is much worse. They cannot go out freely or fearlessly. They could not go to schools or colleges, as there was a chance of being abducted. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 374 of 5400 ) Study of Arabic or Persian is compulsory in all schools and colleges. Study of Islamic religion is compulsory in all schools and colleges. The text-books carry venom and hatred against Hindu and Bharat. Hinduism is berated as an inferior religion and Islam is portrayed as a superior religion in the text-books. Their history books extol Md. Ghazni, Ghori, Babar and Aurangzeb as heroes and run down Rana Sanga, Shivaji and Rana Pratap as cowards. The next books state that the Hindus are not the original sons of Bharat and that they came from outside. The textbooks highlight the rights of Kashmiris and attack Bharat as the aggressor. The students are brainwashed from the primary classes upwards and are turned into fanatics |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 375 of 5400 ) Can any one expect the Pakistanis to ever extend the hand of friendship in the context of this indoctrination? No job higher than a clerk's post is given to a Hindu. In spite of four medals for securing first position in Four University examinations, and profound scholarship in Arabic, Persian, and Urdu I was refused a lecturer's post initially. No Hindu can run a business unless he has a Muslim as a sleeping partner. The Hindu shop-keepers and businessmen must give goods or groceries to Muslims on credit. When the businessmen go to the villages to collect the dues, they are threatened and some times murdered. Many of the Hindu temples have been desecrated or destroyed or converted into Government offices or godowns. The famous Ram Bagh garden in Karachi has been changed as Azam Bagh. Shraddhananda Park in Sukkur has been changed as Gazi Abdul Rashid Park, after the name of the killer of Swami Shradhananda. Illegal encroachments on Hindu temples, goshalas and lands, molestation and abduction of Hindu girls, demanding of huge ransoms in kidnap cases and frequent arrests of Hindus on false charges are the order of the day in Pakistan. The population of Hindus which stood at one crore in 1947 has come down to 17 lakhs. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 376 of 5400 ) When I came back to Bharat in 1964, I was astonished to find the rights and privileges that the Muslims were enjoying here. There were Muslim Governors, Collectors, I.A.S. Officials, Police Chiefs, Judges, Members of Parliaments and Legislatures, Ministers and so on. After that there have been Muslim Presidents also. The Muslims have had their rights protected by the Constitution. Hence they have been able to build mosques anywhere and run their reliious institutions without any hindrance. They have got the right to teach their religion in schools and colleges, observe their customs and adopt their personal laws. They have the right to start any business including slaughter houses to kill cows, and have now acquired monopoly in many trades. They are able to freely propagate their religion and resort to conversions. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 377 of 5400 ) They are able to freely propagate their religion and resort to conversions. They are able to buy any property anywhere and own it without any hindrance. The Muslims have been contesting elections as a community and under the flag of the Muslims League which divided the country. The Muslim population which was around three crores after the partition in 1947 has now gone up to 14 crores. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 378 of 5400 ) These were the experience of Kanayalal M. Talreja . Now respected Hindu politicians and intellectuals why don't u see Hindu pain ?? Why do you always blame Hindus for everything ?? I know politicians are "votebank seculars". They need muslim votes . But what is the problem with our intellectuals ?? Why do they love to hate Hindus ?? Why do they only see the pain of Palestine ?? Why the attrocities committed on Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh is never discussed by them ?? If Hindu intellectuals and Politicians are so indiffrent towards Hindus , who will we look for . We Hindus are always the scape goats . Muslims will keep on killing Hindus and u intellectuals will be silent , parliament sessions will be going on peacefully ,,,, But once Hindus retaliate all hell will break loose , parliment will be adjourned indefinitely , newspapers will be full of articles castigating Hindus , articles comparing Hindus with Nazis .... What is the reason behind ur profound hatred for Hindus and Hinduism ?? Just because Hindus don't issue fatowas ?? Just because Hindus are not united ?? |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 379 of 5400 ) Dear Hindu secular brothers, see everything wrong with VHP and RSS , no problem. But for |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 380 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Military Spending Clock soomboody make a South Asian one pl... 01:40 AM 03/16/2002 : we all are witness2 3-4 weeks of dahshat (terror)... and now this lumpen sena have extended it further2 June... so all this while Railways loose money... GDP takes a dip... people fear2travel4business/marriages... if they had2than the whole family terrified till he/ she gits baack... from his/ her khachcharii existence... from June onwards it will be another threat... if Aadvaani outta power then... he would lead the mob... hey raam yeh sab tere naam??? holding everything4ransom... what a mess :)... what a shame... tch tcha... chhee chhee chhichhorii damn-o-cracy... har shaakH pe bajrangii baiThey haiN(even baavaajii dogHlaz, just hundred thousand... but they r everywhere in abundunce, a loadz of VJs2...) [... and yes indeed Sonia ben... on NDTV's NewsHour... balckmail it was... Naalpat was good on CNN's Qoo&A, so was Banaatwalla... the Bajarangii was pretty bajarangii... AajTak looks like bajarangi mouthpiece and Bajrangiiz are unrestrained in their speech... KaTyaar chamaar wanna burn Kashmir with his poisonous utterences... and the Buffoon tried 2 read Englieesh... the other day on a NooJ channel... ha! the guy looks and sounds like a khomchawalla2me... what about U's?!?] beaten at the electoral hustings the lumpen sena goin' beserk... it is untouchablity NOW all the way down to the drain... whoever touches u will be doomed... ... [03:00 PM 03/16/2002] KaTyaar Ayodhia would eventually be locked and army gonna carry the key... guards-o-constitution gonna put military there... so that u lumpen dahshatgard won't be able2create chaos... and not be able 2 blackmail the govts., ageen... why VHP is still not been banned... Why Mahaashweta Devi is not on telly...?!? is it reserved only for the loudmouth jaahils or what? all so called secular parties in the NDA responsible 4 the mess they are making... u hear Naidus... Karuna (compassion)nidhis... Mamata... the longer u stick with the lumpen... more u loose... less u gain... and ...bloodstains on ur names... 03:39 PM 03/16/2002... him speaking... in lower hse... lookin like lumpen KaTyaar... pretending 2 be an angel... now... talking about Gujaraat... relief camps and all... ah the famous hand spin... prati hinsa... u makkaar... dhoort bajarangii... ah now a caution... about talkin about Gujaraat... arth ke anarth... u r that itself... u r named atal... but u r the opposite... tal and tal... all the way... what a disaster u r... sooon enuff this mess will go utterly chaotic beyond any governance... u hear Naidus... Karuna (compassion)nidhis... Mamata... the longer u stick with the lumpen... more u loose... less u gain... and ...bloodstains on ur names... naasooor already ban chuka hey lumpen king... saarthak baatcheet... ha!... resolve it... but u would rather waste so many young lives and moolah in white pockets... instead like the rest... [kaTyaar's presence there helped… ha! Look who he is kiddin'… genocide it was… ethnic cleansing it sure is… 4 pol potty u all are…] Ah Yoko jaan-e-John in Liverpool... Cherrie jaan-e-Blair too... thanx TOI4the pic... but this time... a little thing is missed from reporting... motto-e-John Lennon airport... 'above us only sky'... [ hey Alisha Chinay... its not ishk... its Ishq... rather ishque... ya bhaiNse... learn ur stuff b4 u do it. hey tour Ops how about tours de strawberry fields... and Liverpool ... coke_aish ad is a turn off so is that golf in the air... and all this noise this collectively schizophrenic... be-hoshistaan makes... disgustingly and deafening auto honks... constructions and demolitions.. :( [chhapte chhapte... Bajarangii at their best display... in Ori'assa this time... ha! |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 381 of 5400 ) Dear Hindu secular brothers, u see everything wrong with VHP and RSS , no problem. But for God's sake , try to treat Hindus like any other human beings. Hindus have the right to live like all others, Muslims won't accept them , just because we are kaffir for Muslims. Not only Hindus , but all jews , christians,sikhs,buddhists are their kaffir. Islam demands Muslims to hate and kill kaffirs , they are obeying it pakistan and Bangladesh by killing the Hindus. Dear Hindu intellectuals , politicians why do u so much anti-hindu not to notice all the sufferrings Hindus are going through for centuries ??? What do u want ?? A "secular" tag with your name ?? |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 382 of 5400 ) Afghan Hindus and Sikhs have lived continuously in Jalalabad for many years. Previously there were 700 families, but now there are only 40-50. At the beginning of Jahadi's power, like the rest of our fellow countrymen, the Hindus were subject to robbery and other forms of harassment. As a result, most of them left their property and all their personal belongings behind and went to Pakistan and then to India. Before some could leave, they were killed. According to eyewitness reports from Taimani and Karte Parwan of Kabul, others were victims of extreme violence perpetrated by Jehadi criminals when they took over. They attacked and raped the women. Boys and men were brutalized by being forcibly circumsized. Hindu religious celebration like Veysak and the picnic of Gul Narenj (orange blossom), which are beautiful celebrations that were often attended even by Muslims, are now banned, so these celebrations must be conducted privately and in secret. In the past, they took their sacred book from their Daramsal and with special ceremony and celebration carried it to Sultanpour, Surkhroad. Now they are deprived of these celebrations. The financial situation of the remaining Hindus is very bad. They face many dangers and frequently are robbed by the fundamentalists. Education is not available for their children-girls and women are under pressure and they can't move freely. Few live near the Daramsal. When they are confronted by the Taliban police, they are subject to curses, verbal abuse, and physical abuse. There are two Daramsal in the city of Jalalabad. Engineer Ghafar, a commander of Hezbe-Islami of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, confiscated the estate of Perbajeh Singh (who was popular and respected among the Hindus). He was forced to leave the country and Engineer Ghafar claimed that they bought his estate. Dandy Singh was one of the shopkeepers of the Daramsal and the Taliban confiscated his home. He ran away and now his house is occupied by a Taliban family. |
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dhuriwal 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 383 of 5400 ) Psuedo Secularism In ¿A question of belonging¿, Mr. prem Shankar Jha¿s views exemplifies the core problem faced by India, that of psuedo secularism. Mr. jah¿s psuedo secularism is evident from the choice of words. To quote him¿ communal madness that gripped the state of Gujarat in wake of torching of four bogies¿ here he forgot to mention the 100 odd human beings ¿ who lived, worked, loved, hated, worried, planned, laughed and cried¿ as if these people were aliens whereas he uses the same lines for 500 people who died in the communal bloodshed that followed. Both the sets of human beings were Innocent Indians who were targeted by groups of outlaws and extremists using religion as mask. Gujarat carnage no doubt has been a blot on the face of India. And its true that innocent people lost their lives at the hands of goons, thieves and outlaws masquerading as Hindus. Only devil architects are capable of causing the terrible carnage that riots witness and not the God¿s men. These self appointed guardians of religion are worse off than animals. Such devil architects can only do the killing of small and unborn babies and raping of someone¿s wife, mother or daughter. So it is not the religion that is the problem here, its politics. The problem lies with the corrupt, incoherent, worthless and good for nothing band of politicians that India is unfortunate to have at the helm of affairs. This is the class of people who incite and formant religious bigotry for their political agenda. And it¿s not only the B.J.P I am referring to, but the mainly the congress party and the policies pursued by it for so many years. The Muslims in India have never been made to feel as Indians because of the congress¿s divide and rule policy. They have been always treated as no more than a vote bank and the best way to keep a vote bank in ones grasp in to keep it poor and uneducated, to have special laws for it. It¿s a big tragedy that even after so many of years we do not have a uniform civil code in place. One section of society is being allowed to quadruple at an alarming rate and the majority is being asked to adhere to a flawed population control policy. The majority s bound to feel cheated. By not bringing into force a uniform civil code the politicians are not doing Muslims a favour but rather they are jeopardizing the very future of India. The Muslims will always feel closer to Pakistan rather than India if they are not treated as Indians and assimilated in to the mainstream. Mr. Jha¿s observations on the alienation of Muslims are absolutely wrong; furthermore his observation that middle class Muslim professionals perpetrated Bombay blasts of 1993 is preposterous. It is a known fact that the blasts were a handiwork of underworld mafia headed by Dawood Ibrahim and assisted by Pakistan. Subash Chander bose had ones said that for India to travel on the road of Prosperity it needs to eradicate the evils of Communalism, Corruption and Casteism. Through last Fifty years and more our leaders have added another evil to this list, that of Psuedo- secularism. It¿s indeed very sad that these evils have become the axis around which the political thinking of India revolves. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 384 of 5400 ) Dr. B.R.Ambedkar had prepared a detailed scheme for the migration of population of Hindus and Muslims from Pakistan and India on the analogy of such migration of Muslim and Christian population held between Turkey and Greece, which is written in his famous book "Thoughts on Pakistan". According to him, it was a natural corollary of partition of India on the basis of two nation theory to have Hindus and Muslims settled in separate countries. But the then leadership of India, particularly Gandhiji and Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru were not prepared to implement the same. At that time that was not a difficult task, because the number of Hindus left in Pakistan and Muslims in divided India was almost equal. Two and half crore Hindus were left in Pakistan, while the same number of muslims was left in the partitioned India. In such circumstances and conditions it was appropriate and essential for both the nation-states to mutually decide to provide similar treatment to the Hindu and muslim minorities left in Pakistan and India. But such a reasonable and practical step was not taken. Had the rulers of Pakistan been told clearly that the muslim minorities in India would be mated out with the same treatment which would be mated out with Hindus in Pakistan, most probably their behaviour and attitude would have been different from what it was. Thus the minorities in both the countries would have received equal relief. But unfortunately that was not done. During the last 43 years, Pakistan sought of the Hindus minorities problem in that country by resorting to forcible conversion their exodus from Pakistan. In 1947, Hindu population in Pakistan was 23%. Now Hindu population in Pakistan is not even 1%. The same position prevailed in the East Pakistan, now called Bangla Desh. Her Hindu population consisting of Vaishnavas, Buddhists etc, was about 33%, which has since been reduced to less than 10%, and the remaining Hindus are also counting their days of stay in that country. How unfortunate has been the plight of Hindus in Pakistan & Bangla Desh! |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 385 of 5400 ) Babri obstinacy, this was no medieval happening but something happening in the living present. Secondly, the cunning Muslim spokepersons forget that a much more outrageous holocaust had happened in Muslim dominated Kashmir two to three years before the Babri demolition-by selective killing of prominent Kashmiri Hindus by the JKLF and other terrorist outfits in the Valley, followed by terrifying calls even from the mosques to the 'Bhats' (Pandits) to leave the valley and leave behind their Bhatnis (womenfolk), resulting in ethnic cleansing of the Valley at gun-point. Moreover, another four years earlier in 1986, large scale desecration and destruction of temples and Pandits' properties took place in Anantnag district when no secularist Hindu or Muslim shed a tear over it. Rather, they blamed the Hindus for running away from the valley to defame Kashmiri Muslims at Jagmohan's behest. As a prominent Kashmir mediaman commented later on, the Babri demolition was no less a result of repetition of Partition scenes in Kashmir despite what India has done for Kashmiri Muslims. Does any secularist, beating his breast over demolition, remember that? No, because Hindus are traditional sufferers and must go on suffering for currying Islamic favours. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 386 of 5400 ) Can anyone deny that Kashmir problem is basically a problem of Muslims' refusal to live amicably with the Hindus and that separatism is ingrained in their minds and ethnic cleansing by most brutal methods is an integral part of their culture? Even Kerala's Communist Chief Minister indirectly underlined this problem by reportedly describing the Muslim-majority Malappuram district as 'Mini Pakistan', though later denying the statement. This is what Ambedkar described as Muslim refusal to practise co-existence. That is the ingrained Muslim image in Hindu mind, even when he happens to be a communist VIPs. Thirdly, there has been a continuous reconsolidation of Muslims almost on pro-Pakistani lines after a brief lull in the wake of Partition disturbances. This has been pointed out by Kakasaheb N.V. Gadgil, (father of erstwhile Congress spokesman, V.N. Gadgil), who was a socialist Minister of Jawaharlal Nehru's first cabinet, as expressed in his memoirs Government From Inside, 1968. Says N.V. Gadgil in his book: |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 387 of 5400 ) Can anyone deny that Kashmir problem is basically a problem of Muslims' refusal to live amicably with the Hindus and that separatism is ingrained in their minds and ethnic cleansing by most brutal methods is an integral part of their culture? Even Kerala's Communist Chief Minister indirectly underlined this problem by reportedly describing the Muslim-majority Malappuram district as 'Mini Pakistan', though later denying the statement. This is what Ambedkar described as Muslim refusal to practise co-existence. That is the ingrained Muslim image in Hindu mind, even when he happens to be a communist VIPs. Thirdly, there has been a continuous reconsolidation of Muslims almost on pro-Pakistani lines after a brief lull in the wake of Partition disturbances. This has been pointed out by Kakasaheb N.V. Gadgil, (father of erstwhile Congress spokesman, V.N. Gadgil), who was a socialist Minister of Jawaharlal Nehru's first cabinet, as expressed in his memoirs Government From Inside, 1968. Says N.V. Gadgil in his book |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 388 of 5400 ) I have already described how systematically Pakistan drove out its Hindus and how they encouraged Muslims to enter and occupy some areas in Assam. (This has now turned into a demographic deluge spreading upto Delhi and Bombay.) The Indian Government took no notice of these. On the other hand, Nehru was greatly annoyed when once Vallabhbhai Patel suggested mutual exchange of Hindu and Muslim populations and a proportional division of land between India and Pakistan. (He demanded one-third of East Pakistan to accommodate flood of Bengali Hindu refugees pushed out from there which made Liaquat Ali Khan rush to Delhi to conclude the Nehru-Liaquat Pact, which proved another Paki ploy to buy time.) But one has to confess such an exchange would have been beneficial in the long run. We are a secular country and our faith in secularism is fundamental, but that too must be tempered by hard realities of the situation. The Indian Muslim remained, on the whole, aloof from the mainstream of Indian life after Partition, but in almost all cities communal Muslim organisations continued their poisonous propaganda. Thousands of Muslims who had gone to Pakistan returned and were given back their properties. The Hindus received no such justice." (Pp. 88-89) |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 389 of 5400 ) Thus, ironically enough, while Bal Thackeray is deprived of his voting right in free India for combating Islamic aggressiveness, not one Muslim vivisectionist has been disfranchised in free India, though millions of vociferous Pakistani agitators stayed back to carve out more mini-Pakistans. Fourthly, Muslims have totally neglected what Maulana Azad advised them to do-on the basis of the failure of Nehruvian secularism to build up a truly non-communal, welfare state. According to veteran journalist Durga Das, a former editor of the Hindustan Times, who used to meet the Maulana every Sunday morning for news-gathering according to a 'mutual arrangement' in the Maulana's last few years of life. "The Maulana", says Durga Das, "revised his opinion of Nehru in the last two years of his life. Indeed, he went to the extent of expressing regret for being unfair to Patel and asserting that he was sure that the country would have been better off if Patel had been Prime Minister. What motivated this change? |
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gsurya 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 390 of 5400 ) If the Godhra carnage was barbaric, then the we majority Hindus made sure that the post-Godhra riots were exponentially more barbaric than the proportion that we outnumber the Muslims in this country. The Muslim mindset is typical of that any minority community has in any developing country, be it Indonesia, Rwanda or Yugoslavia. Unfortunately, now we Hindus have also stooped to the lows that these other majority communities exhibit. There will be always extremist forces in any multi-ethnic society. What saves the day is having leaders that take firm centrist and secular positions that keep extremism at bay, whether it is Muslim or Hindu. Unfortunately however, we today have the likes BJP and the Shiv Sena in power because of other power-hungry parties like the TDP, that have brought us to this pass. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 391 of 5400 ) thetruth, you have given an excellent account of the recent history of india. how unfortunate that nehru and his communist allies got the upper hand after independence. nehru was a traitor with a superiority complex who never wanted the kashmir issue to be solved. the tragedy and mortal blow was struck when patel died in 1950 giving nehru near complete authority. nehrus disastrous policies (refusal of security council seat, appeasement of the chinese, appeasement of the muslims, and open deigration of hindus) has led to the current situation. it is not a coincidence that india a great power even in 1947 is nothing today. it's respect level has gone down. korea and china were far behind india in 1947. today there is no comparison. nehrus stupid policies have destroyed india and continuing to do so. either the hindus stand up and be counted or they will slide into greater misery. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 392 of 5400 ) pmishra2, it is shameful that being a kashmiri pandit your views are nothing but a rehash of the discredited nehruvian view of india. i have met many like you and it is unfortunate. nehru was a bloody complete failure, clothed in disastrous secular superiority the same views that you are espousing. it wa snot the socalled hindu upper class but ambedkar (a dalit) who warned seriously that appeasement of the muslims in india will lead to disaster. he fully supported the transport of muslims to pakistan for a final solution. he warned dalits against conversion to islam and advised them to become buddhist, if anything. he knew even as a dalit that islam was not the correct choice for indian dalits. let me tell you pmishra2 that progress and non-violence do not come out of appeasement and cowardice. the muslim community the world over has shown that they cannot live with others peacefully. their minds are brainwashed right from the start for confrontation with others. the only way to confront this mindset is with strength and force when required. it is sad that you do not condemn godhra and the amarnath killings, but jump up and down about thhe gujarat riots when the muslims were at the recieving end. the gujarat violence is a result of muslim aggression not vice-versa. the root cause is muslim communalism and it's appeasement. wake up and do not continue with nehru's discredited non-sense. the country will be destroyed if that continues. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 393 of 5400 ) The muslims have no problem in handing over the Babri Masjid site to VHP/RSS/ BJP or whoever it is. But what they want in return is an assurance from the governement and the parties (RSS/VHP) that they will not claim any more masjids. But unfortunately VHP is already making noise about other masjids. So if the muslims budge this time, then there is no way they can stop it next time. So the ball is in the Sangh court. If they want "Ram Temple", they can give an assuarance to the muslim community that they will not claim any more masjids and have it their way. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 394 of 5400 ) thetruth, if pakistan is soo clever and cunning and Nehru was a stupid fool, how come pakistan is today a heap of garbage and our country is on the move? Based on your analysis india should be a failing state and pakistan should be doing well. Do you know that when the british came to India our religous leaders were the first to kiss their ass?? The RSS played almost no role in the independence struggle. Why? Who created the IITs, the regional colleges, the technical institutes, the educational system? The Mahant of Ayodhya? Bal Thackeray? No, you ignorant fool, it was Nehru and Patel and all of these leaders. India is facing a great crisis. In Pakistan it has a neighbor which is a Saudi-funded madhouse, full of maniacs and murderers. The islamic community everywhere (india, USA) is extremely backward and primitive. Saudi Arabia, fountainhead of terror and murderers, is a rich country teaching muslims throughout the world to destroy their own culture and become extremists. How do we respond to this situation? Should we behave like the VHP in Ahmedabad and burn down 10,000 crores worth of property and kill innocent citizens? Should we do this after every terrorist attack of the type in Godhra? Who do you think won in Ahmedabad? It was people who created Godhra. India lost. Pakistan should disband the ISI, they no longer need them as VHP is doing their work for them. Maybe Ashok Singhal will ultimately be given an award by Pakistan? It would be the correct thing to do. Islamic extremists are delighted with Ahmedabad, they now realize that the hindu extremists are their blood brothers. Together, they can continue on their agenda of destroying India. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 395 of 5400 ) luwmann, you are having an argumnent with yourself. You are not interested in listening to anyone. Do you know how much effort I have personally put into exposing the islamist extremists? You are only able to see Hindus as humans and no one else. You are an exact replica of these disgusting people who said things like "muslims were also killed in the WTC so it was a bad thing". |
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bobby_f 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 396 of 5400 ) Only the RSS/BJP saffron bandwagon has gained political mileage from the Ayodhya issue. And they are the only losers if the Ayodhya Issue is resolved. What makes Mr. Jha believe that the RSS/BJP/VHP will stop after the mosque site is handed over to them, the temple constructed, and the issue resolved. Their popularity is bound to fall by the next election, and if not, the next, and the only way they seem to know to seek votes for is by raising another communal issue. It could be the Mathura temple/mosque complex, or it could even be Mother Theresa’s Missionaries of Charity(of which their opinion is already known). (And for certain, the other political parties appear to be cashing in on the other side, by supposed concern for the Muslims, and at the same time, hiding behind judiciary to avoid a pro-minority image). Can Mr. Jha explain why and how these riots and tensions are so precisely timed with elections and so delicately synchronized to climax after the results. ( And isn’t it understandable that the Kar-sevaks booed the Mahant and Mr. Singhal when the current stand-off climaxed). Does it take the CIA to tell who instigated the Gujarat mobs, and who is defending these butchers, and how many votes these people are going to get in the next election. If someone is sure that resolution of Ayodhya will satisfy the political hunger of these people once and for all, than Mr. Jha has THE solution. Otherwise, Ayodhya is just a symptom of what lies ahead, and consequently, it is not the solution. What is required is an intellectual campaign to de-mask these power-thirsty barbarians, and a collective will to remove the moral decay of the society. We need leaders who can awaken the half-asleep peace loving Indian, and tell them what lies ahead. We need history lessons about Hitler and Mussolini, about Hitler’s fight to power, about his rule in Germany, and its subsequent demise, and about what most Germans think about him today. Till that point of time, I dread the thought of these barbarians coming to rule, and proposing what is right and wrong. And the thought that I have to approach them for justice. Scores of lives have already been wasted. No doubt it needs to be stopped. Neither is there any doubt that it will not stop ‘after’ Ayodhya. Think of what needs to be done to stop this inhuman tragedy. Think, using your mind, and than if you are still undecided, use your heart. In any case, solutions that do not address the key issue, are not even worth being called a solution. |
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shaker 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 397 of 5400 ) I do not see an option for the media in your opinion poll. In my opinion, the media has the most to gain from all these hype, because only then they can make money by selling papers. They are the hounds who do not have any shame. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 398 of 5400 ) pmishra2, You say "no one denies that islamic culture is very backward today" Well, okay. How about we go step further and question exactly the kind of threat muslim backwardness poses to India: First, the muslims blame their backwardness of hindu oppression rather than on their huge family sizes. In the end, this means that this is perfect oppurutunity for the muslims to declare "jihad" on the rest of India. This is not acceptable. If the muslims are not kept on a leash like they are in more developed countries, India is ripe for a giant communal conflagration in a short while. |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 399 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava What should Muslims do now? By Rafiq Zakaria in Age[.. Zakaria jii... KHud'aa jhooT hai... kHud aana ;) and truth is God... god was invented as an invisible omnipresent.... a sooper cop... as buffalo owner and cart pullers were usually up in arms... wondering who were superior... lol... give up all those fiction2begin with... ] Hindu militants and their saffron shield By Sudha Ramachandran in Asia Times Why did Manto go to Pakistan? By R.C. Ganjoo in The Tribune... Running riot with nation's genius By Sanjay K Jha in The Pioneer Dance with me : Almost 40 years down the line, the VHP has moved from the fringes of public attention to centrestage. For the BJP, it is payback time as the saffron fringe the party has sought to legitimise is demanding its pound of flesh. Rajeev Deshpande explores the options before Vajpayee Sufis see love and unity where theologians see superiority and separation By Asghar Ali Engineer @ Pogressive Dawoodii Bohras Alternative media/ media debate : ALTERNATIVE MEDIA URGENTLY REQUIRED FOR DALIT LIBERATION IN INDIA by HENRY THIAGARAJ @ indiapolicy.org 'The government is obviously trying to hide something about the Godhra incident' : Seasoned journalist Saeed Naqvi who went to Godhra to ferret out the causes of the conflagration first-hand, tells Shamya Dasgupta that he found far more questions than answers about who set fire to the train carriages that sparked off some of the most brutal communal violence that this country has ever seen : tehelka.com |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 400 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Vajpayee braces for communal remobilisation : The BJP top brass is convinced that the Ayodhya card is still the only credible plank for a full-fledged communal mobilisation, and Round II is on the anvil, says Venkat Parsa @ Tehelka Editorial / Parliament of fouls : Half-truths and misdirection : the CoolCattaTelegraph... 17th March 2002... [look in the archives pl.] ITIHAAS : AKHILESH MITHAL : Choodaamun Jaat : AgeOnSunday Following the tradition of modernity in Urdu poetry By Bhupinder Aziz Parihar in The Tribune Clock's ticking as Bush redraws rules on nuclear weapons : SMH MIDLIFE CRISIS By R. Chandiramani in AgeOnSunday ... 5 Killed in Church Bombing in Paakisstaan... hey Pervez protect ur minorities... tame ur bajrangiis... Natasha looks like maaN-e-aazam she was... nah... bahu-e-aazam... just till the early last century... u could kill ur wife in China since she was ur property and on top... not having got a soul... ha!!! |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 401 of 5400 ) shaker, The Indian media consists of a bunch of corrupt lazy hacks who would be looking for external sources to do their job in investigative reporting. In fact, the Ayodhya court case has dragged since 1961. Which was the party in power for a major part of the time since then?? Well, you guessed it, the congress party. Which was the party in power in UP when the mosque was demolished, making the tangle harder to resolve?? The congress party. In fact, the congress party uses these hot button communal issues to garner muslim votes, while the hindu imbeciles who vote for the congress party seem to be too stupid to see the dangerous game the congresswallahs are playing. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 402 of 5400 ) tathagat, So what's up in pakistan today, paki?? How about some short notes from your buddy Brian Clougley?? I am sure we would all enjoy some more delirous, conspiracy crap from Brian. |
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abcd 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 403 of 5400 ) i hereby praise Dawood Ibrahim and Tiger memon, who carried out BOMB BLASTS.............Bravo Dawood .....if somebody outthere read my message and need financial help(to carry out blasts).He can contact me....... An indian muslim living in TORONTO(Canada) |
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abcd 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 404 of 5400 ) i wish india go to hell......oh..sorry its already hell.....hehehe....and hindu's think its a fucking super power....what a crap....i lived in india almost 23years i lived in hell i think since i moved to Canada...fuck india.....plant more bombs so hindus become more coward...what do they think by killing 650 muslims they rule...come'n if muslims start fighting hindus will be pissing in their pants and making there famales perform puja for Shiv Ling( in common lang. Shivlund). So he can fuck them and save them as Akbar use to do for Rajputs...... toronto guy |
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sarah 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 405 of 5400 ) Karapall, Given that Muslims pose threat to India how are we to go about keeping them in leash? How are we to make Muslims realize that they need to stop blaming Hindus for their underperformance. Instead of using Jihad as a device for mobilising Muslims in an attempt to reassure their identity they should resolve to look back at the fundamentals of the Islam - the cry of the world is that Islam has lost it's essence, it is injured and wounded any action from the followers of injured faith will always create ritos and mayhems. Taking a detached view the need for Islam is to look for remedy to heal its wounds first instead of pounding thier frustrations on others. The only remedy that occurs to senses is Islam needs to underpin the principle of "Inclusiveness". |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 406 of 5400 ) Oh yeah sarah babe, you hit the spot on this one. Your incisive comments on the Muslim psyche and the Islamic existential dilemma leaves me awed. Your extraordinary powers of synthesis are awe-inspiring indeed. How come you are asking a question? Babe like you should already know the answer. |
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janoo 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 407 of 5400 ) Don't you see the background of these riots. What Kar sevak did while they were aborad on the train, they made the life of the womens hell on the earth(either were hindus/ or muslims)who were also in that train that casue of all the riots. The Kar sevak torn the clothes of those women and at every station they had eaten food and were not willing to pay a penny to the poor hawkers at all the stations. And if anybody asks for money for what they had eaten they destroy all those shops of poor peoples. DID THEY WERE DOING RIGHR???? So the main cause of the riots were Kar Sevak who had nothing to do but only to join free eating procession etc. And even those Kar Sevak did not buy the ticket for the train, did they were doing right from the begining of the journey they were preparing all the communal riots. What VHP they are the worst fundamentalis class in the world, and BJP has been staning on the cluthes of VHP. (Remember Hindus are trying to creat a new muslim state in Hinsutan and preparing to give Kashmir to Pakistan) As the Farouk Abdullah already has said that what has been done with Muslims through Hindus in not good it is a bad stagmatised on the face of Hindus and Hindustan. You will see soon a new muslim state in Hinsustan, as no fundamentalist state allow any community to practice there religion freely. Enemployed Hindus looted all the muslims properties and looted shops and stupid police was laughing by standing at a distance. Just have to say a line leave the bullshit and be a civilized community in the civilized world. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 408 of 5400 ) abcd, janoo With stupidity of your sort who needs the VHP or the RSS? You are your own worst enemy. A person who suggests that the pilgrims should be burnt alive because they shouted religous slogans and stole food is barely a human. Actually, you should join the VHP or the Bajrang Dal. They believe in exactly the kind of behavior that you promote. Do you need their address or phone numbers? Who is stupider? The Hindu fanatics or the muslim fools? Hmmm,.... This is so hard, for every brain-dead hindu fanatic there is an equally brain-dead muslim extremist, and again for each brain-less muslim there is an even more bevakoof hindu, wow, this could go on forever.... Why don't you guys all go someplace and kill each other? That way we can continue trying to build India and you can continue killing each other. |
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sakshi 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 409 of 5400 ) to abcd.... I really think youre an asshole of the first order. You backstabbing thankless scum!!!who the fuck asked a person lik eyou to stay in india????? You bastard you stay in india live there fore 23 years an d now abuse your own people??I think no one should even consider reading your bull shit comments.You have no integrity or any values what so ever. YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE BHEN CHUT CHUTIA DICKHEAD!!!!!!!!!!! DID EVERYONE GET THE FULL FORM OF HIS NAME NOW???????? DONT READ THIS MOTHER FUCKERS STATEMENTS!!!! |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 410 of 5400 ) sakshi for president. scumbags like abcd and janoo and their cheerleader pmishra2 are the worst kind of assholes. the cheerleader is actually more dangerous. he thinks appeasement is the only way to go and solve problems. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 411 of 5400 ) pmishra2, your balancing act is very pathetic censuring scumbags abcd and janoo. then you say nehru and lo and behold patel were responsible for the IITs, Industries etc. you fucking idiot, if patel were alive today he would have nothing to do with nehru and imbeciles like you. your crocodile tears for patel are hilarious. patel died in 1950 had nothing to do with nehrus failures. it was a tragic loss for india. wht makes you think that india is doing so well and pakistan doing so bad. actually both countries are not doing that great. pakistan's per capita income is still more than india's you foolish ass. the reason for that is nehru's failed economic bullshit. the comparison should be with china and korea whose per capita income was half india's in 1947. today chin's is twice and korea's ten times. what kind of a fool are you moron. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 412 of 5400 ) pmishra2, you foolish nincompoop the reason the VHP and the shiv sena exist today is precisely because of moronic idiots like you who have been cajoling the muslim fanatics since independence. not having learnt the lesson in 1947 you idiotic fuckers are doing the same thing again - pamper the muslim fanatics. what has this led to. continued misbehavior by muslims, keeping alive their pakistani mentality, contnuing their disruptive behavior, insulting the hindus at every turn, killing the hindus where ever muslims are in large numbers. this bullshit has to stop or hindus will retaliate. there will be mayhem. it is nehrus chelas like you and the congress party that is responsible. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 413 of 5400 ) pmishra2, if thsi non-sense jehadi islam is not stopped it will lead india to ruin. you can ban the VHP, the RSS, the shiv sena et al. nothing will change. the msulim jehadis will continue their bullshit with even more vigor. thanks to you, the congress party, the communist party and the brand new entrant to secularism THE BJP party. it is a wonder that Vajpayee ahs turned out to be another nehru. the foolish man has destroyed the BJP and making a fool of himself , the party, and the country. instead of giving the country a new direction this foolish man has turned the BJP into another congress party. the end for BJP is very near. all we needed was another secular party. what bullshit. |
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sarah 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 414 of 5400 ) Joy & Karapall Gazing at the situation we are put in I think we are not left with any obvious answers. Perhaps a serious debate is required from people of different sections, hence my question to karapall and others. |
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prem_d 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 415 of 5400 ) Trash talking other religions doesnt make our religion better in any way. I have wondered, and I have always wanted to know my fellow Indians opinion on one issue. I ask this not to provoke any particular person, but just to put my mind at rest and hold on to my belief that we, Indians are still the most rational-minded people who live on earth. My question: IF (and that is a BIG IF!)someone is able to prove that there was a mosque or a church over which a temple has been built, will they / should they be allowed to tear down the temple and build the church or a mosque? I dont want past references, but I want my fellow Indians to think, keeping in mind the current Indian political/social atmosphere. It hurts to think that when people in our country dont have enough to eat or dont have any assurances in life, the MOST important thing that every person wants to do is to build a TEMPLE??? wherez the logic behind this? I have more Hindu and Muslim friends than I have Christians, even though I am an Indian Christian. I dont think that going to a temple or a mosque is wrong, and I have had my friends come to our church as well. We just dont jump from religion to religion, but rather, we are a cohesive unit, a team of Indians who believe that we are invincible, no matter what comes between us, looking out for each other and helping each other go forward with our lives, Unity in Diversity. I just dont understand why the same cant be felt and done by the rest of my countrymen. I am very sad as I read here that people just keep trash talking other religions. Its not the religion, its the skewed versions of it promoted by people for political gains that must be stopped. I hope that our country can get much better if our religious fervor is turned into a hard-working zeal among every Indian. Thanks, Prem. |
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ZAK 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 416 of 5400 ) First let me say what happened in gujrat was not a riot that we came to know for the last 50 years. Words are not there to define whats happened in gujrat, people that you see everyday involved in horrifying massacres. Massacres of innocent people, children women. The very same people who get from seat to give for a lady without any regard for religion to which she belong. Know in gujaraat a pregnant lady's stomach was slit and her feotos taken out. horrifying tales of burning entire houses, vehicles with all people inside, women children. This kind of incident even rare to find in war. How can the people of gujrat became such heartless. Let me say the unfortunate thing, with this massacare of muslims all the people of gujrat became party. How insensitive can a chief minister be when he himself justify the massacare of a community, give background information why the people in jeep and jarry needs to be burned alive with his children. Are we lost the sense of nationhood, Indianness when a chief minister we and them. Why should now a muslim have any hope of the LAW. Isn't it the people in power driving him to the exteme. Whats the gujrat govrnment do now after the riot, nothing. Now the govenment machinary is after godhra culprits. Yes they needs to be punished no doubt. what about the people who led the death and destruction all over gujrat. the people who spred terror without the fear of the law of the land. If the law of the land discriminate for the same crime , a crime against humanity then this nations future is doomed. I was humming most of the time a song that was dvery dear to me...............but not what happened and whats happening now....Sare jahan se achcha Hindustan hamara. Pity now no single soul from gujrat or to say of gujrat say it with same pride as before. Its a pity |
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sv1984 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 417 of 5400 ) this is disastrous, all the same i don't understand why muslims are against everything, they seem to be anti-human. |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 418 of 5400 ) Islam in the holy land Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1874000/1874471.stm |
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vineet87 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 419 of 5400 ) While the behavior of Hindu militants against Muslim citizens, following the suicide by 58 militants (including women and children) on the Sabarmarti Express was inhuman to say the least, please do not confuse the `followers of religion (VHP/Muslim goons) and the religion they profess to follow. I guess we are too lazy to read the texts and infer that since VHP claims to be Hindus, then Hinduism is evil, which suits the Muslims/Christians/Communists/Pseudo-secularists just fine. Lord Krishna/Rama has clearly stated:One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramatma, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes. One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities. The Lord in Bhagwat Gita has also specified the treatment that awaits such haters (VHP/Muslim goons), the pseudo-seculars/hatemongers (Oulook, Ms. Roy) and the atheists (Communists): These haters, sinful, cruel and vilest among men, I cast again and again into demoniacal wombs. Failing to reach me, Arjuna, these stupid souls are born life after life in demoniac wombs and then verily sink down to a still lower plane. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 420 of 5400 ) prem_d, imbeciles like you should understand the difference between "talking trash" about "certain religions" and documented FACTS about the behavior of muslim majorities (now I KNOW that you are pseudo-secular fuk if you refuse to name religions, especially if the religion is Islam). Since you seem to be clueless to the extreme, let me know which points on islam amount to "talking trash" and I will provide you references for the same. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 421 of 5400 ) ZAK, Firstly, the Bhiwandi riots and Ahmedabad riots in the 80s were a lot worse than last month's riots (death tolls in those riots were close to 4000). Humanistic Motherfukkers like you should spend equal time thinking about the hindu genocide in Godhra. The genocide in godhra was carried out by a purely muslim mob which torched the train and stopped fire services from reaching the train. This was a well-planned attack by muslims, and somehow that does not seem to rankle the fine sense of love and compassion pseudo-secular assholes have developed after years of brainwashing. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 422 of 5400 ) Karapall, So you are still here spreading poison. Do you need directions to the nearest toilet? Still spreading your RSS "muslims are the only evil" crap here? Here is a wonderful persian saying for all of us to mull on (not for you Karapall, as only things stated by the Mahant of Hatred or Ashok "lets kill a muslim" Singhal count for you) "It is easy to be a mullah [sant], it is much harder to be a human being". |
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SB 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 423 of 5400 ) SB The Godhra massacre was a bone chillingly horrifying event. Enough to give a nation nightmares for centuries to come. Was a violent reaction really essential ? Does spilling more blood bring back those who have already died ? Can a family that has lost it's loved one mourn less because two others have been killed for the one lost ? Does religion really colour the quality of one's sorrow ? The whole episode of the the Godhra carnage and it's aftermath fills one with a sense of deep despair. The only thing that can save us is to learn tolerance ... no matter which religion one comes from. If the Muslim community in India ... which everybody terms as the minority community ... can be a threat to it's majority Hindu population then there can be no end to this trend. Say the Muslims vanish, another minority will be a threat and then another and then we will seek to be threatened by other sub castes and sub sub castes. In the end differences in complexion and heights will be reasons to feel threatened by. People are different ... always have been. The only way to a better life is if one can be as comfortable with people being different as one is with his or herself. Mr. Luwmann ... or isn't Lewd Man more appropriate ? Is it absolutely impossible for you to voice an opinion without resorting to profanity ? The funny thing is that a Muslim or Christian fundamentalist will be probably be able to empathise with you much better than can someone on the medium path. I used to call myself a Hindu ... as a way of life I have been brought up with. If however being a Hindu means being a rabid intolerant person like you I think I will give the whole thing a miss And Mr. ABCD ... It is funny how you guys forget how much of a role the country had to play in getting you to where you are today. If you have shrugged off all ties with the land that nourished you for 23 whole years I wonder why you bother to poke your nose in to say nasty things to the rest of us. Stay where you are ... Mr. Na Ghar ke na ghat ka ... (that is the plain truth ... you will never assimilate with Canadian society ... you will live in the company of other confused desis like yourself and one day your own children will be strangers to you) and let us handle our own hell. It is ... as you have made it clear ... no longer yours ! |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 424 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava The fortnight-long Ayodhya crisis cost the nation at least Rs 800 million, a senior government official indicated on Tuesday... [rediff.com] 3000+, 900+,700+ lives lost... Aadvaanii, singhal, Vajrapaayee, Thakrey responsible for it all... even the "Godhra" was b'coz of this stupid 'barhmin rashtra' in through the backdoor... [... and ah 'pralay" is certain... qayaamat on its way... be-sharamo [de facto, de jure be-imaan...lol} ko sharam aane lag gayii... condemning themselves... fishes ran up the trees... ...uTTh kapRe badal, ghar se bahar nikal [ah nida bhai baahir paagalkHaana ho rakhha hai bhaiii... so rather... UTTh PC on kar... web net pe log in kar/ jo hu'aa so hu'aa/ raat ke baad din, aaj ke baad kal/ jo hu'aa so hu'aa jak talak saaNs hai, bhook hai pyaas hai/ yeh hii itiihaas hai... [naashta le ke kaarkHane koo nikal baawa...] rakh ke kaandhe pe hal, khet ki aur chal/ jo hu'aa so hu'aa kHoon se tar-ba-tar, karke har rah guzer/ thak chuke jaanwar/ lakRiyoN ki taraah, phir se choolhe meiN jal/ jo hu'aa so hu'aa Jo maraa kyoN maraa, jo jalaa kyoN jalaa/ jo luTaa kyoN luTaa/ mud'datoN se heiN gumm [no its not so... now we know] in sawaaloN ke hal/ jo hu'aa so hu'aa mandiroN meiN bhajan, masjidoN meiN azaaN/ aadmii hai kahaaN?/ aadmii ke liye eik taaza gHazal/ jo hu'aa so hu'aa [ but no... not2let it happen ageen... u not only do justice... and seen2be so... tathagat calls upon 'sofa-beds'2enlist all Bajrangii office bearers and key leaders in every riot torn district in GUjarat... tathagat want2 see justice... if the system can't bring them 2 book... sincere, responsible people will indeed bring them to book... now they r even goin 2 loose power in civic bodies... looks like RSS and VHP, BJP and Bandar dal would have 2 be disbanded... or else it would be lawlessness... all the way... ... how about removing religious icons off our Banks, and other govt., and semi-govt., offices and public placess... activist and citizen do there duty... write2Bank HOs... state govt.,/ civic bodies issued circulars from the govt., ... ah Beeb reported from ChanDigaRh... cow chaap rumor eh! ... 12 more deaths after the carnage and record... [4 more today... since last count] ...RECORD... screamed Modi/Aadvaani... 72 hours... [yelling loudest possible and their eyes popping out... fisting the table... a few mikes gets entangled... and askiing our rejignasion is outraziously phunny... lol... has he resigned just as yet...? if not when will he? see the danger of givin' legitimacy and seat of power to lumpen elements... ...there is utter disgust in people now... soon enuff... the bajrangii gonna crumble like a pack of cards... LM Singhavii and Naik and every bajarangii busy whitewashing... naik wasn't even allowed their parrot like repetition... as a refuge... what Rajive had said justifying the Sikh carnage by the same RSS driven lumpen elements and yes... jaaNnisaar putter Jaaved bhai is right... INC has nurtured this menace... the biggest accomplishment of the Gaandhi baaba was2keep these buffoons at bay... and now they r IN and goin' berserk... ABV said in the hse that "... no one is washed of milk de bahiNs... bajrangiis so outta arguments now... |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 425 of 5400 ) pmishra2, Care to explain what the "poison" is, or are you satisfied to play it fast and loose with the hope that something sticks?? (Now, that is a tried and tested desi commie technique) If verifiable facts are poison, then you are even greater an imbecile than I previously thought. Some of your posts seem to hint on some perceivable rationality, but it largely seems to be singleminded boneheadedness. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 426 of 5400 ) Karapall, what verifiable facts have you presented to justify the Gujarat killings? None. Here are some of the things you have said: [quote] In the end, this means that this is perfect oppurutunity for the muslims to declare "jihad" on the rest of India. This is not acceptable. If the muslims are not kept on a leash like they are in more developed countries, India is ripe for a giant communal conflagration in a short while. [end-quote] What kind of junk is this? Which Indian muslim has declared Jihad on India? You claimed that India and Pakistan have the same economic status: Per Capita GDP (1999) India Pakistan 2248 1834 Literacy (1999) India Pakistan 56.50 44% My guess is that the discrepancy has widened further in India's favor in the last couple of years. So, let me ask you this question again: if the pakis are so wonderful and cunning, how come they cant even beat us stupid nehru-loving Indians? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 427 of 5400 ) pmishra2, Do you know Imam Bukhari's views on Osama and on terrorism?? You DO know his position as the "leader" of Indian muslims. Bukhari openly threatened the Indian govt. that it must not support the US in its so-called "war on terror". I am sure openly declaring jihad in India can be very injurious to your health...but that does not mean that the likes of Bukhari and Deendar Anjuman dont have widespread support among the muslim populace, who increasingly derive their education from madrassas all over India. Firstly, I dont equate muslim=pakistan. so your rhetorical question about pakistan, pakistan has been continuously at war with India since independence because the pakistani elite dream of recreating the pan-islamic empire of old. Such delusions non withstanding, they do have the machinery to create and split the indian polity, with the willing help of the media and the pseudo-secularists. Pakistan wants to make peace with India, so that it can live to betray India another day, and thus their calls for "peace". |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 428 of 5400 ) In any case, I dont see the relevance of the GDP comparison to pakistan's ability to screw India. You probably did not pay attention to the news that Pakistan paid the head of Bangladesh's army 100 million rupees to coopt them for jihadi activity in India north west. Given the disarray of Indian politics and the vast presence of complete morons like you among Indian intellectuals, India will now have to fight on two fronts. Do you know what that implies?? |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 429 of 5400 ) karapall, Imam Bukhari and Ashok Singhal are cut from the same cloth. They are both thugs who claim to represent their communities. I have yet to meet an Indian muslim who had anything but disgust for Bukhari. Yes, I understand that he has a few thousand chelas who follow him around. So does Ashok Singhal (actually singhal has more like several 100 thousand chelas). Instead, of getting all worked up about Bukhari and Bangladesh, let me make the following suggestion to you: let us get the literacy rate in India up to 75%, let us get the economy going so that the average indian makes twice the money of our neighbors. This will bring us real strength. If we get obsessed with our crazy neighbors we will go nowhere. We need to think strategically, work with the big picture. If we get bogged down in all of these reactive tactical details (tit-for-tat actions) we will go nowhere. Our military mobilization in January 2002 was a good example of strategic thinking. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 430 of 5400 ) pmishra2, If your crazy neighbour is out to cut your throat, you need to pay attention, you moron. You dont ignore the threat and think of the wonderful career you are going to have now that you have an education. Economic security can come only after internal security. Get that straight. Economic security can only come when there are no external threats to India's security. this is schoolboy stuff and I am surprised I have to explain this to you. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 431 of 5400 ) Singhal and Bukhari are equally despicable and I am not going to argue about the finer points of their character or lack of it. One difference: I doubt if Singhal has openly avowed support for the Taliban and Osama. |
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vineet87 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 432 of 5400 ) Here is what `securalism' as defined by Nehru/Communists/Leftists has led to as prophesised by Swami Vivekananda more than a century ago:Therefore the world is waiting for this grand idea of universal toleration. It will be a great acquisition to civilisation. No civilisation can grow unless fanaticism, bloodshed and brutality stop. No civilisation can begin to lift up its head until we look charitably upon one another; and the first step towards that much-needed charity is to look charitably and kindly upon the religious conviction of others, nay but also positively helpful to each other. And that is exactly what we do in India. It is here in India that Hindus have built and are still building churches for Christians and mosques for Mohammedans. That is the thing to do. In spite of their hatred, in spite of their brutality, in spite of their cruelty, in spite of their tyranny, and in spite of the vile language they¿re given to uttering, we will and must go on building churches for the Christians and mosques for the Mohammedans until we conquer through love, until we have demonstrated to the world that love alone is the fittest thing to survive and not hatred, that it is gentleness that has the strength to live on and to fructify, and not mere brutality and physical force." "You know that the Hindu religion never persecutes. It is the land where all sects may live in peace and amity. The Mohammedans brought murder and slaughter in their train, but until their arrival, peace prevailed. Thus the Jains, who do not believe in a God and who regards such belief as a delusion, were tolerated, and still are there today. India sets the example of real strength that is meekness. Dash, pluck, fight, all these things are weakness." |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 433 of 5400 ) Oh! Shut up, you bloody asshole Karappal (or is it Crap all?). What is the difference between child killers like you and Jaish e Mohammed? It is best to send people (are you really human?!) and your buddy to Pakistan where u can meet your soulmates from Lashkar e Taiyaba and Jaish e Mohammed. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 434 of 5400 ) Karapall, again,youareconfusingissueshere.WithPakistanwehaveaneighborwhoserulingclasssuffersfromahatredofIndiawhichisirrationalandextreme.TheyareheavilyfundedbySaudiArabiaandChina;historicallytheyhavealsobeenfundedbytheU.S.A.Thesepeoplehavetobemetinbattleanddefeated. Bangladeshisadifferentissue.Thereareover10%HindusinBangladesh,BengalicultureisquitedifferentfromPakiculture(maybethisphraseisanoxymoron).HindushavebeenattackedinBangladesh,sohavemuslimsinIndia.Withgoodtraderelations,wecanhaveapositiverelationshipswithBangladesh.Youshouldbeawarethattherealotofpeopletryingtoblockthis(muslimfundoos,smallindianbusinessman).Yes,therewillalwaysbeamullahshoutingaboutislam,butwehaveourAshokSinghalsandBalThackeraysaswell. Finally,educationandeconomy.YoucanhavethebiggestarmyandgunsintheworldBUTifyoudonotimproveeducationandtheeconomyyouwillloose.YouhavetolooknofurtherthanthesovietunionoratPakistantounderstandthis.Inthelongrun,theonlywaywecanwinistobesmarterandmoreeducatedthanthenuts.OneofIndia'sgreatestweaknesses(fine,blameNehruorwhoever)isthatithasnotprovidedadequateeducationforitsmassesandtheeconomyhasgrownwaytooslowly.Ifthisisnotaddressed,allthearmiesoftheworldcannotsaveindia. |
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advik 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 435 of 5400 ) After Gujrat,Im ashamed to call myself Indian. This is not the India I want and not the India I want to be a part of. I much rather live else where then have this murder on my hands. India may seem a secular tolerant society on the outside, but it has some deep chisms between coomunitites which have to be bridgedat any cost.The killers of the Sabarmati as well as the arsonists and looters of Gujrat should all be brought to justice and made to spend alifeti me behind bars...to gether.My heart goes out to all those innocent people who saw their family members beings laughtered. The Govt official sand Pol ice officers in Gujrat should hang their head sin shame,because Iwould not hire them to hand lean STD booth let alone run a bloody state like Gujrat.If Naresh Mod i has any shame and pride...he should go hang him self because even that is not punishment enough for an idiot like him. |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 436 of 5400 ) Yaar, main socha ki abhi tak Sage Kara apne tapasya me in lin ho gaye honge.Lekin Kara bhai to abhi bhi peecchee se bishail ega schhodne me lage hue hain. Kara bhai,apne gas ko conserve karo aur usko creative kaam men lagao. Apne gas se desh ka energy samsaya ka samadhan karo-ye message wessageli kh ke nahin. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 437 of 5400 ) Joy, Care to point out the fall a ciesin my argument,or are you content with the usualla mebrin approach of just claiming that my facts are wrong. Point out a fact you disagree with and I will provide you references. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 438 of 5400 ) advik, Your best bet is to move to pakistan, given that you are a shamed to be an Indian.And good riddance too,I would say. Would probaly improve the IQ of both countries. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 439 of 5400 ) Joy, Worthless assholes should try to defend your views rather than claiming that your opponen tis wrong, and that too without any counter point. Cretins like you need to know facts instead of just worthless rhetoric. |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 440 of 5400 ) Sorry Kara Bhai. Galti hui gawa. Maphi deideo. Chhoti munh badi baat kardi. Lekin aap to mahapurush hain. Aap zaroor maph karenge |
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nazirp 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 441 of 5400 ) First let me state that as a Muslim and an Indian by birth,I am very saddened by the recent communal riots.I want to add that if indeed the Muslim fanatics were behind the heinous crime of burning the train(Hindus), that the seperpetrators should be found and punished. But for a revenge that not only caused heavy damage to every ones livelihood (as accounts of stores belonging to Hindus getting the brun tof fires set to store sowned by Muslim sattest. Add to that the millions inda mage to the City and surrounding. This is absolutely disgusting. I would like to tell the Muslims to let them build a temple at Ayodhya. Ram and Allah willjudge by peoples good deeds in life.I suggest that let all faith come together and build a temple, a Mosque, a church and a Gurudwara at Ayodhya and become a symbol of peace and harmony that would be the envy of the world .I grew up in Ahmedabad pre67 and many of our family friends were Hindus and to this day still are.I fone of ourfamily member was sick they would immediately cometo our home to inquire of our well being. I went to St.Xaviers and I and others are fortunate that duet our schooling at the Catholic school we learnt to appreciate the divers it yo four fait hand culture. I even went to the temple at times and sanga Bhajan ands till enjoy them. No I haven't compromised my religion.But I believe that in al and where people of all faith go to Ajmer or to the Mahim chur chando ther religios places,and I have travelled in my visits to Varansi, Pushkar and Haridwar, it is time we put a side all differences and treate a chother ashuman beings.And not let the act of a few fanatics whether they be Hindus or Muslims put a wdge betweenus.Two songs that come to my mind. And they should be are minder to all/ Tu Hindu Banega Na Musalman Banega Insaan Ki Aulad Hai Insaan Banega,Allah Tero Naam Ishwar Tero Naam Sab Ko Sanmati De Bhagwan. The Earthquake was are minder to all to devote their energy and time to doing good.Let us pray for peace and harmony. |
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wash 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 442 of 5400 ) The debris we have left for the whole world to see after the Godhra incident is a bunch of politicians whosee religion and humanity as two poles apart,people who have neither averve for politics nor a true sense of religion. Rev.Fr.Adolf Washington Bangalore. |
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ash_ram 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 443 of 5400 ) Pankaj Jha has written an article in Outlook in which hetrie to say that the mystery e mail was arumor. Well I did not read the story in any e mail, but in the Washington post and the Independent. Here's the link to the independent.http://new s.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/sto ry.jsp?story=276349 These condone is in the washington post:Provocation Preceded Indian Train Fire Official Faults Hindu Actions, Muslim Reactions for Incident That Led to Carnage Article 9 of 16 found Rajiv Chandra sekaran Washington Post Foreign Service March6,2002;Page A10 Section:A |
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Vijay 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 444 of 5400 ) I Think I`m MAD The debris we have left for the whole world to see after the Godhra incident is a bunch of politicians whosee religion and humanity as two poles apart, people who have neither a verve for politics nor a true sense of religion. Rev.F r.Adolf Washington Bangalore. |
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rav666 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 445 of 5400 ) Outlook,_why_are_you_eating_up_our_space?????? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 446 of 5400 ) ash_ram, the email was the PRIMARY source of that bit of rumor, and Rajiv Chandrasekharan's article and all foreign articles on this issue blame hindus for the Godhra incident because of this email. Note that the Indian press is yet to correct or retract this bit of lie that was propagated via email. I am sure that if such an email had been mailed about muslims it would have been suppressed by the press. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 447 of 5400 ) Adolf Washington, Unless you are the kind of person who believe that Godhra was the first of its kind in India, there is no reason to suddenly act all shocked. This wont be the last time we have riots either. Indian politicians have made vote-bank politics a science. This started with the "secular" congress party during Indira Gandhi's time and continues in not only "secular" parties but also "hindu fundamentalist" parties. But I will bet my hat that you are one of those "secular" dudes who votes for the congress party everytime. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 448 of 5400 ) advik, why give up so easily? The reasonable people in India still outnumber the nuts 10:1. But if our educated people are so quick to say: we dont care anymore, guess who will win! If India is worth anything to you, FIGHT for her soul. Write letters, join organizations, give money to anti-VHP, anti-hate organizations. Support our minorities in their struggle against addharma. |
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prem_d 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 449 of 5400 ) Karapall, Well, I guess some people just cant write stuff here without using profanities or calling other people names. Should say that it does reflect on yourself to be a pathetic irresponsible person. I am not a pseudo-secular person, but well, you still couldnt or didnt answer my question! Ranting and raving over your anti-Muslim feelings will not be just sufficient to get your way. Sit down, have a cup of coffee and think, just for once and maybe you will be able to answer my question. For those who are reading this anew, I had asked a question, its not something that I ask to provoke anyone, but I have always wondered about it and I would want to know how my fellow Indians feel about it. IF.. (and Thats a BIG IF) there is a temple that has been built on the ruins of some old mosque or a church, will that community be allowed to tear the temple down and build a church or a mosque? I ask this, I repeat, not to rake up some controversy but I want to know. For all the people who died in Gujarat, my heart goes out to you, the pictures that they put up here are heart-wrenching scenes of the carnage. God be with them and I hope our Government does provide the necessary relief as soon as possible. Prem. |
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raul 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 450 of 5400 ) Hey you Karappal & Luwman, How much money the ISI is paying you for spreading hatred and intolerance in India and thus sabotage the country's development? |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 451 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Cr ossing all limits By Kalpana Sharma 4 The Eeendu [kalpana is fine but what is this sharam aa haaN?] What is more sinister this time in Gujarat is that the economic boycott call has been backed by a systematic attack on Muslim-owned businesses. [carrying hindu surname means confirming2an unjust social system... so all cow owners and qurbaans drop the ooogly sickening baggage... ] India to test Agni III missile within three months: official spacedaily.com Peace activists report a surge of new support By Michael Rosenwald, Globe Staff, 3/19/2002 A dangerous mix By K. K. Katyal in The Eeendu Ay odhya: what stakes do OBCs have? By Kancha Ilaiah in the Eeendu |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 452 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava And the mask falls By Amulya Ganguli 4 HT... chor chori se jaaye... hera pherii se na jaaye... kutte ki duum... hazaaroN saal se nargis apnii be-noorii pe rotii hai... baRii mushkill se hota hai chaman meiN deedavar paida INTERVIEW : 'Where Was The Delay? I Restored Sanity In A Record 72 Hours' : The Gujarat chief minister is unrepentant and tries to brazen it out. By RANJIT BHUSHAN in Outlookindia.com [..have a look at the picture... a picture tells what a thousand words can't... and I and my master aDVaaNii should be nominated for Nobel Peace Prize alongwith Bush and Blair...] Sack Modi, ban VHP By Praful Bidwai in HT A hatred for all seasons By Sukanta Chaudhuri in The Asian Age Th e RSS message from Bangalore By V. Krishna Ananth in the Eeendu Th e agony of Gujarat : Narendra Modi's Gujarat is a blueprint of the future, if the Indian state comes fully under the control of the Sangh Parivar. By K. N. Panikkar in The 'indu Ay odhya and the law : It is unfortunate that the BJP-led Government, instead of maintaining strict neutrality... has espoused the cause of the VHP. ...By P. P. Rao in the Eeendu |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 453 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava The Iron Khan : As secretary general of Amnesty, it will be interesting to see how Irene Khan deals with India. By Ashim Choudhury in HT... [India awaits u Irene] RS S-BJP rift may widen By Neena Vyas in The Eeendu [what if RSS & Co banned!?! no riots and no work 4 her.. :)] ...drop the Vyasa2Neena... Playing out a farce? By A.G. Noorani 4 HT Sentiments of an Indian Muslim By Saood Usmani in Buddhadesh Times INTERVIEW : "This Was A BJP Lab Experiment" : The trustee of Gujarat Today the only Muslim newspaper in the state with a wide readership on the recent riots. OutLook Gh osts of Sabira, Shatila haunt Sharon : Efforts are on to bring to book Israeli PM General Ariel Sharon. Mohammed Hanif reconstructs the events that shook the world's conscience. The three-part story of Sabira and Shatila Can we salvage anything from the debris in Gujarat? : Muharram arrived too soon by Prof. Mushir-ul-Hasan in IE |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 454 of 5400 ) prem says: "IF.. (and Thats a BIG IF) there is a temple that has been built on the ruins of some old mosque or a church, will that community be allowed to tear the temple down and build a church or a mosque?" Of course, Ayodhya is contentious because it was the birthplace of one of hinduism's gods. so you need to further qualify your question as "if a temple was built on the ruins of christ's birthplace in Jerusalem or in Mecca, then..." Now, if they were muslims you can be damn straight that the temple will be replaced with a mosque in Mecca/Medina. If they were christians, you can bet that they will negotiate the situation to get their church in the end. The bigger point is that hindus would most likely not object especially if it was a temple in disuse. Now, do you see the problem with the behavior of the muslim leadership in India?? |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 455 of 5400 ) pmishra2, you are not only an ignorant asshole but certainly a fucking comic. your words "support the minorities in their fight against adharma". i think you were butt fucked by the nehru virus. fucking nincompoop are you insane. these same minorities have insulted your religion, divided your country, and raped and plundered your land. on top of that after getting 30% of our land they are still creating trouble. either you are fucking a muslim woman, or you are a faggot being buttfucked by a stinking mullah. are you insane matherchot. the way to control these minority maniacs is as follows: 1. introduce a common civil code. 2. defeat pakistan militarily so it does not create trouble for india for all time to come. no more gaddari. 3. populate kashmir with hindus and sikhs, so that, the population there becomes majority hindu/Sikh. 4. break bangladesh into two and resettle the hindus there that have lost there homes and kicked out of bangladesh. you pin headed chutia. go hawk you moronic views elsewhere. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 456 of 5400 ) karpall -- i do not like your tone and profanities you spew on this MB, but to be honest, we need people like you that make these pseudo-secular/cry-baby-politicians/too-scared-to- do-anything/dirty-trick-playing/minority-appeasing type bastards awake and take notice of the reality!! |
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uvwxyz 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 457 of 5400 ) I think BJP/RSS/VHP has to re-consider their views on sikhs. In front they are are pro-sikhs , but they stabbed during congress regim. Congress too is walking on the path of RSS. There is no place of sikhs in India, Sikhs go to pak. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 458 of 5400 ) uvwxyz -- you come across as a delusioned maniac! pleas get a grip! wakey wakey, dream is over!! |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 459 of 5400 ) Hey Vineet87, thanks pal for that wonderful piece of enlightenment! For those of u who missed the quote from the Bhagavadgeeta - "Krishna/Rama has clearly stated:One who worships the Deity of Godhead in the temples but does not know that the Supreme Lord, as Paramatma, is situated in every living entity's heart, must be in ignorance and is compared to one who offers oblations into ashes. One who offers Me respect but is envious of the bodies of others never attains peace of mind, because of his inimical behavior towards other living entities.As the blazing fire of death, I cause great fear to whoever makes the least discrimination between himself and other living entities. The Lord in Bhagwat Gita has also specified the treatment that awaits such haters (VHP/Muslim fascists/pseudo-seculars/hatemongers): These haters, sinful, cruel and vilest among men, I cast again and again into demoniacal wombs. Failing to reach me, Arjuna, these stupid souls are born life after life in demoniac wombs and then verily sink down to a still lower plane." |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 460 of 5400 ) luwmann, DO you need directions to the nearest toilet? Please do not take a crap in in the public so openly. I am not used to it. It is really very strange to see all this shit is coming out of your mouth (and keyboard), wow, do you also have to eat with your other end? I have a suggestion for you: why not join a circus? In this way you can get paid for your ability to shit from your mouth (and also your keyboard). Good luck with your miserable life ! Who knows, you may get lucky one day and get runover by a taxi or bus someday soon. Do not lose hope. |
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joey 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 461 of 5400 ) Hi all, I came across this article on the site, a section of which is pasted below: "According to eyewitness accounts, later confirmed by Ahmedabad police officials, kar sevaks aboard the ill-fated train had been misbehaving with Muslim passengers and vendors. Says an official: "Several Muslim passengers had been forced to chant Jai Shri Ram by the kar sevaks during the journey. At one station, Muslim passengers had even been forced to disembark. We also heard that they misbehaved with women passengers." " The article can be found at http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?sid=2&f odname=20020318&fname=Cover+Stories The xenophobic venom spewing "juntaa" might wanna give it a glance before they accuse others of being religious fanatics. Let peace prevail... |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 462 of 5400 ) Hi all, This is in response to a rejoinder by Mr. P Mishra , who has asked me to take a hike and some more unmentionable things. Mr. Mishra, first of all you seemed to be a reasonable person but i have to take back my opinion. You project urself as a moderate and a patriot who believes in nation building but your views ( and i do'nt know what you do for living ) are as stereotype as the HMV gramophone was. But,what you are propounding has been told a zillionth of time and we now where india is today. Coming to the point, you mistook me for a zealot who does not see the reason and thus harped the profanities. May i ask you that what was wrong in my response. I think guys like you and your kin needs to be mentally challenged to feel the issues and refrain yourself from giving time warped views abt them. 2. There was also a poser from Mr. Prem that "what would be do if there were a temple built on a razed mosque". Mr Prem , it seems you do not take things in entirety. Just to put the things in perspective ,the question should have been phrased like this, "what would be do if there were a temple built on a razed mosque site believed to be the birthplace of Mohammad or Christ." Well answer is very simple. I think hindus would have given up on that temple as a good will gesture to Muslims. And if not,India would have had to face the wrath of entire muslim world and not just pakistan. Read the last sentence again and now you would understand that the ayodhya dispute is a religious dispute and not a political dispute. The religious dispute are not fought on facts and figure. It is a question of belief. And just to set the record straight, i dont even know that whether Ram existed or not but for that matter nobody can prove that Mohammad took that mythical flight or Noah really saved the world. But since the muslims believe so or so do the christians , what right others have in denying this belief to Hindus that Ram's birthpalce was that disputed site. And now the connection becomes clear that hindus ( who are really only confined to India and thus believe that india primarily belongs to them) believe that their concerns have not been taken care of in their own land. This has led to the simmering anger inside and given rise to the birth of militant hindu. This militant hindu is a response to the falsical practices of secularism ( basically a vote bank politics )in India. This militant hindu is also a paradox and pretty much unhindu in the way that unlike other religion ( Christianity, Muslim )Hinduism ( and this is true for all the religions who have been influenced by Hindu like Budhdhism, Jainism, Sikh,etc.)has co - existence as its one of the fundamental cornerstone. Hinduism does not teach that if you are not with us than you are with them. I am running out of time and i would complete this piece in very near future. to be contd.. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 463 of 5400 ) In response to awanish 3/23/2002 3:22:11 AM ( # 462 of 462 ) Awanish Muslims are ready to hand over Ayodhya to Hindus, but are Hindus ready to assure the muslims that they will not ask for more. Unfortunately VHP/RSS/BJP is already making noise about Kashi and Mathura and god knows what else. So the problem is really with the so called Militant Hindus. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 464 of 5400 ) awanish, I have no comment to you only to luwmann. This same luwmann has felt free to abuse me whole heartedly. So I am puzzled by your comment. My position is clear: I hate all the religous fanatics. There is no difference between the killings of hindus/sikhs in kashmir and the killings of muslims of ahmedabad. Those of you who have Gujrati muslim friends will know that they are deeply part of gujarati culture, they have no hangups about being some kind of fake-arabs or anything like that. A lot of people want to destroy India. Musharraf does. The Jaish'e'Mohammed does. Ashok Singhal does. Modi the butcher of Gujarat does. The Mahant of Ayiodhya does. The Peoples War Group in AP and Bihar do. These people are all fanatics. They hate the idea of india of all different regions, religions and backgrounds. They hate the idea of compromise, sharing, finding a reasonable way forward. They want only their group or idea to win. The VHP and RSS are tricking the hindus by pretending the main problem in India is our backward muslim minority. The real problem in India is lack of education and opportunity. This has happened before in places like Italy and Germany in the 20-30's. Everyone knows what followed afterwards. Do you know how many europeans will killed in the second world war? 40 million. Thats right: forty million people dead. How many were wounded? How many lost their homes? Maybe another 100 million. Do we want this for India? But this is what the VHP wants, this what the RSS wants. This is what Musharraf wants. Wake up, there is still time. We can all together fight the fanatics, the mahants and the mullahs and have a better future. Satyamev Jayate ! Jai Hind. |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 465 of 5400 ) Karapall and luvmann, Read the outlook magazine's (the site we are posting our messages) cover story "it says there was pre-planned ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Gujrat". and every magazine and newspaper says the same thing. Except for the BJP/VHP/Bajrang Dal and you two bastards. You two are the most irrational bastards blinded with only one agenda - which is a blind hatred for Muslims" You bastards will remain frustrated all the time! |
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ramesh12 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 466 of 5400 ) Karapall and luvmann, The article in the outlook magazine's " pre-planned ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Gujrat"" is written by three writers, all the three are Hindus and, they have visited the affected areas and have first hand information. Unlike you hypocritical cowards who sit in the comfort of ur home and spew venom. you are a blot on the face of India, VHP/BJP/Bajrang dal and their supporters such as u cowards are responsible for India's problems. India would remain backward and even go downhill as long as u blame every problem of India on Muslims and live in the fantasy world that if all the Muslims are gone, then India would prosper. Even if every Muslim were to be removed from India, then you hypocritical guys would fight among yourself. that tells us the problem with India is not Muslims but VHP/BJP/bajrang dal and their supporters' irrational mentality. India would be better off without u bastards! Go to hell. |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 467 of 5400 ) Taalian! India needs more guys like u P.Mishra! BTW, I share ur ideology and admire the ideologies of Narayana murthy, Navin Jindal and their likes, who practise, more than preach. I would like to point out to the self proclaimed Hindu hardliners that u - 1. r a minority 2. have no right or basis to proclaim urselves as Hindus, let alone represent Hindus, since every aspect of ur ideology opposes the semantics of Hindu philosophy. 3. In the process of pointing fingers at all the wrongs in Islam/Indian muslims, u r imbibing, adopting, & EXTOLLING exactly what u have a revulsion for in the other religion. Hence the paradox!! 4. The way to go about it is to show ur strength from an elevated position, not to stoop down to their level and make urself small enough to equal the enemy! 5. Adopt nationalism & self development as ur motto. Security, peace of mind & all other goodies will automatically follow. 6. Let us assure u that we r all fine. u have no reason to believe that ur personal psychological inferiority complex affects all of the Hindus enmasse! |
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grohit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 468 of 5400 ) Now for some education kiddos - Checkout the Bhagavadgeeta online. It's awe inspiring & shows u the way to go about ur life -> http://www.asitis.com/1/ |
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thindu 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 469 of 5400 ) If you are a true Indian forward it to as many as you can ! What happened in Godhra? To understand what happened in Godhra on 27th February 2002, think what would happen in England if British Rail carrying innocent pilgrims returning from their prayers to St. Paul's Cathedral were burnt alive by Muslims in Bradford! Innocent Christian Women and children! When Christians can't travel safely in their own homeland how would the English Christians react'? Just how did America react after the attack on WTC ? For months the shock, the rage and the fury didn¿t subside. It flared and finished Afghanistan. Even England supported this fig11t for justice. Whether the people of America or England supported it or not, both Governments plunged full-fledged in their fight against Islamic terrorists and fundamentalists. In Gujarat, it was sheer public outrage against the brutal, uncalled for, burning of innocent lives by Muslim fanatics and fundamentalists. Burning of railway carriages with women and children screaming for their lives, and 3,000 Muslims dancing with swords is more barbaric, more traumatic, more inhuman than 18 seasoned terrorists slamming into the WTC. If America's and Britain's reaction is justified, so is Gujarat¿s reaction. The Hindus are peaceful and hardly provoked into violence. Just like America and Britain were patient and gave Afghanistan two months before reacting, the Hindus have remained patient and tolerant and gave Muslim fundamentalists over a 1,000 years, before reacting. Just as America reacted because it felt insure in its own homeland, the Hindus have begun to feel insecure in India - their own backyard. |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 470 of 5400 ) Well. .. india is all set for a revolt,obviously by hindus... as day by day they are increasingly feeling undone, discriminated, by politicians ( who else - congress and yadavs ) and media ( rejdeeps, burkhas even those beared aaj tak idiots have joined the band wagon ) just coz hindus are majority community it seems they have no rights to practice their own religion with dignity and pride. I have been hearing Hindu word since i started reading and watching tv news, with utmost hatered on electronic and print media. Riots have begun just a month ago. And what is fascinating to note about media coverage is .. that there have been one sided killings since that godhra massacre. It seems our so called secular fundamentalist MEDIA doesnt like these one sided killings, thats what they have been crying about. What they want is both sided killings, they also want lots of hindus to be killed, and then they might end up justifying the riots. I love these media persons.... hey burkha u had great chance to prove ur secular image.. why did u tell that ur a hindu when mobs asked u ur religion during the riots.. |
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roshni 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 471 of 5400 ) I am ashamed to come to terms with reality. We claim we have several 1000s of years of civlization... and what have we got to show to the world, the kiiling of innocent lives, raping of women, ethnic cleansing.. The VHP/RSS and Bajrang Dal are right in condemning the ways of many Indians who simply ape the west.... But the only problem with that is the west did what the VHP and its cohoots do, several 1000 years ago.. As a nation we are losers, followers.... why because the ones with the voice is an organization like the VHP.... Long Live India.... Let us go on about our ususal work .... killing innocent people, raping women burning alive children... Let us show the world what 1000s of years of Hindu civilization is all about. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 472 of 5400 ) thindu, you are a liar and a fool. Tell me how many people were killed IN THE USA after the WTC center attack? Two people. Do you know that there are more than 2 million muslims in the USA. AND THAT BEING TREATED DECENTLY THEY WILL ALL FIGHT AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS. Dont you understand anything??? |
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sarah 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 473 of 5400 ) tHindu Why are we so eager to accept that the ruthless killing by Americans and British in Afghanistan was just? Is it that any action taken by the superpowers assumes justification by itself. People in Britain have condemned Blair's blind support to Bush. What justification is America going to give over killing of innocents in Afghanistan. If this war was against Terrorism, Americans should have showed thier might by putting Osama under trial but they have proved themselves amock as all the attempts to trace Osama has been failed. |
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sshyam 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 474 of 5400 ) Most Indians feel Muslims of the subcontinent to be responsible for tearing the country apart.As long as there is Pakistan the syndrome of original sin will haunt the Indian muslims.Once the existence of Pakistan comes to an end ,the "paradise regained" type of harmony can come back.So Indians of all religions should concentrate on getting our land back. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 475 of 5400 ) bravo sshyam, i agree with you. the muslim separateness and continued belligerence towards others is the root cause of the problem. no amount of secularist bullshit can change the truth and reality. the world has woken up to the reality of muslim extremism. india knows this well but the indian secular hindus will not accept the obvious. this is not new. the reason for india's servility is this particular warped synrome of the socalled rational hindus. this is irrationality to the utmost. self protection and strength are legitimate human tools. these hindu cowards are completely retarded and responsibe for the countries rape and disgrace. when will these morons learn. never. |
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sickulce 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 476 of 5400 ) pmishra2, There is no comparison between WTC (09/11) attacks and the Gothra incident. 1) People who attacked WTC were not Americans. 2) American Muslims were killed in WTC attacks. So why should American Muslims be targetted when they were also killed in that attack? Even then couple of muslim looking people were killed. Now see the Gothra incident 1) The attackers were Indians, specifically Muslims. 2) All the people killed were Hindus. 3) Unless you buried your head in the sand, you would have seen how the communist( ala secular) Media spinned the whole drama. If you are not enraged after such an attack I don't know what to say, may be the wholesale massacre of Hindus like in Noakhali will wake you up, but I doubt it. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 477 of 5400 ) sickulce, what relationship do the crazy muslims of Godhra have with the sober middle-class muslims of Ahmedabad? Can you please explain to me why a man like Ehsan Jaffrey (ex-MP) should be killed becuase a couple of 100 muslim maniacs created a horrible tragedy in Godhra? It would be one thing if there were terrible attacks on the muslim community at Godhra itself. I would not support it but I could see why such a thing might happen. But the attacks in Ahmedabad are no different from the attacks on the Hindu Pandits in Kashmir. Influential people with money are being attacked for their property and position in society. Do you think the world is fooled by hoodlums like Modi? Not at all. All the details of the attacks have been published all around the world. The only people being fooled are people like you. I will exclude luwmann as he had his brains removed a few years ago. Anyone who claims to be helping the hindus can fool him. Even Bin Laden! |
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krbose 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 478 of 5400 ) message to all readers:: Please ignore all comments by luwmann and karapall. They are the biggest cowards one could imagine. They are probably sponsored by VHP/Bajrang Dal and other goonda parties to spared hatred amoongst people. Not to rule out the probability that they are "ISI" sponsored nerds. Who ever they are or what eevr they are, they are surely not here for good. They are making this discussion board seem more like their poluted minds. These guys hide behind thier internet ID's and try to vomit out thier frustrated, sick, inhumane, beastial thaughts and try to spread hatred amongst people. These are people who contribute nothing towards the buliding of a nation but are like opportunist cretins who feel uncomforatble with people who have any sort of humane feelings. All they can and are doing is sit on their computers and spit out thier hatred towards their fellow hindu as well as non-hindu colleagues, who outsmart them in all the productive things. These are sick , ugly morons who love to see people getting killed and in pain. I mean look at this do you see "one" muslim on this messageboard or anywhere else who even tries to justify the killings of the 57 hindus. Why the hell are these peole trying to justify the killings that followed this ugly crime. They had as of yet not a single word aginst the guys who burnt the train. These sick people are trying to use the painfull deaths of the 57 hindus and the following riots as a means to spill out thier hatred towards muslims. Look at what they have turned this free speech message board into...a source of "hate graffiti" I wonder why Outlook is not censoring theier messages. I have a request to all Indians of good-will to write to outlook to stop this series of hate messages by these guys. The purpose of this "free speech" is to generate a sensible dialogue among "Indians who care" not to let these sick people have a sick monologue. Thanks KR Bose |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 479 of 5400 ) krbose , u r an shameless idiot ! r u blind not to see the attrocities commited on hindus by ur "friendly" muslims ? u idiot , r u a shameless monkey ?? do u know what ur friends are doing to bengali hindus in bangladesh ?? u idiot , u know , but u blissfully ignore them ?? do u know how many hindus are killed by ur friend muslims in kashmir ?? .....u know , but u r a cunning fucking asshole , u pretend blindness when it comes to kashmir, bangladesh and pigstan ?? do u know in the land of the Pigs , % hindus in 1948 was 23 , now hindu population is less than 1.5 % there ??? do u bother the think how the hindus were massacred in pigstan ??? ur fucking secular head won't talk about them ?? what the fuck ... 58 innocent hindus were killed in godhra and the monkey seculars in parliament were peacefully conducting their fucking duties ,donkey journalists were blaming VHP for the godhra massacre in their bloody "secular" way, and next day some muslims got killed ; the same monkeys and donkeys were shouting from the roof-top , parliment had to be stopped indefinitely . this is the picture of the fucking secularism practised by the "secular" scoundrels . and when somebody protest against them , he becomes communal,hate-mongers . but the real problem is the fucking morons like u krbose , who will continue to ignore hindu pain , who will have no effect when hindus will be massacred by muslims ... u asshole , do u think murdering hindus is the birth right of muslims ?? |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 480 of 5400 ) to my hindu brothers/sisters , please read history of india , bangladesh and pigstan ! u will know who are the villains ! then u decide. don't get carried away by the beautiful speeches of the monkey "seculars" , they are for ages saying u to peacefully face massacre ? |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 481 of 5400 ) to my hindu brothers/sisters , please read history of india , bangladesh and pigstan ! u will know who are the villains ! then u decide. don't get carried away by the beautiful speeches of the monkey "seculars" , they are for ages saying u to peacefully face massacre . |
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SB 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 482 of 5400 ) This column has been a shocking eye opener about the abundance of really warped minds amongst what must be a pretty privileged section of Indian soceity. Thank heavens for some sane voices like that of pcmishra2. To the rabid ones ... I really wonder whether any of you have known any muslims personally. There is a large population of muslims in my ancestral village. Simple people ... happy if the rains are good and there is enough food to keep their young ones from starving. And to think that you guys believe that the slaughter of people like these is justified because some madmen who happen to be of the same religion did something horribly atrocious and utterly condemnable someplace else. You ... whatever you are ... need your goddamned heads examined !!!! |
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krbose 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 483 of 5400 ) Dear Readers Add this coward (the truth) to your ignore list. May be he is one of either Luwmann or karapall with a changed ID. Well cowards like these will always remain cowards. Theh have statred to sound more like Laloo, just ignore them or give their comments a big laugh and forget about it. |
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canman 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 484 of 5400 ) when the hindu dharma preaches "ahimsa parma dharma" and 'vasudaiva kuntumbum"are we not contarary to it? when islam is all about peace,love and tolerence how can we claim the evils of godra to be muslims? if a criminal is a hindu can we say that all hindus are criminals?so also in the case of muslims? lets preserve our hard earned indipendence and take forward our india. lets develop habit of loving each other.let us be indians first.muslims,hindus,christians....later. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 485 of 5400 ) krbose and other sane people, People like thetruth and his best buddy luwmann are "talibani" hindus or "wahhabi" hindus. They admire the taliban, saudi arabia, pakistan etc. For them these societies are the best possible in the world. They want the same kind of intolerance, hate, and just plain stupidity to be implemented in India only with a "hindu" label. They justify this in various cunning ways, pointing to the stupid statements of morons like Imam Buhkari or fools like Syed Shahbuddin. Or the fact that ancient muslim generals/conquerors made atrocities against the hindus (BTW, should India invade Greece to avenge Alexander's invasion???). My advice to them is that as they are so impressed with wahhabi-type of extremist islam, they should just convert and move to Saudi Arabia. They can take the mahant of Ayodhya with them as well as Ashok Singhal. There they will find many more people like them, all seething with hatred and self-importance. In the meantime, we ordinary hindus, muslims, christians and sikhs can try to improve our country a little. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 486 of 5400 ) krbose, you bengali communist matherchot. you want censorship. you fucker, censor all the communist marxist lies emanating from calcutta. you anti-national hoodlum. you shit eating rotten fish head. go live in bangladesh you motherfucker. it is fuckers like you who should be banned. building a nation. you mother fucking moron what do you communists know about nation building. your theories are in shambles you gutter brained nincompoop. all you communist matherchots are liars, cowards, and anti-national chinese cock sucking morons. go eat the communist shit in the gutters of calcutta you self hating benchot. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 487 of 5400 ) pmishra2 matherchot, you are even more of a moron than i thought at first. invade greece for alexander's invasion of india. you fucking imbecile alexander handed the kingdom back to porus (purushottam) after war admiring his bravery. he did not go about destroying temples and building mosques over them. alexander did not insult local religion. he was a conqueror and fought on the battle field. that is a discussion about anothr topic. let us stick with muslims and their behavior you stinking matherchot. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 488 of 5400 ) krbose, Sure, Bury your head in the sand. That should make all the stuff you dont like to go away. Pretentious, vacuous cretins like you need to put forth your view instead of trying to censor views you dont agree with. You are beneath contempt. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 489 of 5400 ) karapall, explain to me how things were improved by the brutal murder of Gandhian and ex-MP Ehsan Jaffrey by a mob in Ahmedabad? Maybe I am missing something only your great intellect can see. Please keep your explanation to the point. Have you read the article by Professor Banatwallah in Outlook? Explain to me how things were improved by the burning his house? in Baroda? Did it bring back to life a single person killed in Godhra? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 490 of 5400 ) pmishra2, I dont know why you popped these rather pointless, rhetorical questions from left field; do provide a context if you had one when you came up with your emotional outburst As for keeping explanations to the point, I do the best I can to keep things simple and short, but I can do little if you want me to compensate for your lack of attention span or neurons. I was unaware of Ehsan Jaffrey's existence and I care even less about him now that he is dead. One less Gandhian is always a good thing for India as far as I am concerned. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 491 of 5400 ) karapall, Thanks for your hate filled answer. You stand exposed as the monster you are. My wish for you is a long lingering disease, leading to permanent inability to control your bowels. Only when you are lying permanently in the stench of your faecal matter will you have what you deserve. Dont worry, with all that hate eating up your guts, it wont be that long. |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 492 of 5400 ) Hi all, this response is in continuance of earlier response () . I had just stopped with the rise of phenomenon called militant hindu and would continue from there.. Although our secularists and the inteligensia ( read press )would hate to admit, but the fact is that this Militant hindu draws sufficient silent support from mainstream Hindus who may not support its activities like Gujrat riot but also would not mind blinking at these acts. This state of majority hindu is not very hard to understand and has not been developed recently. This is the result of 50 yrs of Gandhian-Nehruvian definition of secularism which accepts the notion that minority communalism is less harmful than majority communalism. This idea is as archaic as the reservation policy for the less privildeged which has till date have not helped the less privilidegd class en masse and just to cite its singular failure, has not resulted in a single billionaire entrepreneur from this class. The definition of secularism as envisaged by Gandhi-Nehru and its practices by congress party (And i would come to the collusion of free press in promoting that view)in last fifty years has given rise to the feeling among the majority hindu that hindu lives are cheaper than Muslim lives. Contrary to bringing the muslims to mainstream by these falsical practices of secularism, it has done them tremendous harm and has further alienated them from mainstream. Not a single muslim live has been alleviated by this policy, but today they have to face the wrath of majority hindu and also have to deal with self imposed leaders like Bukhari and Shahabuddin ( raised by secular parties ). Failure of this brand of secularism is not very hard to guess and lies in its concept as it is basically divisive rather than assimilitive. This secularism splits asunder the core of nationhood in two parts, us and them. It is because of this that a ghetto mentality is built in minority community and they remain as poor as they were at the time of independence, probably poorer both in thought and resources. And it is this reason that they are so easy prey for crime mongers and prophets of fanaticism. And acts of this guys fuels the fire of Militant hindu and hardening of opinion among silent majority. And if this vicious cycle continues ,you could safely predict that the polarization of socities would be complete sooner than we think and would lead to sureshot miseries of civil war. And we need our socio-political thinkers to rise to challenge and come with a solution. And this is where , i have my primary differences with guys like Mr P Mishra and his ilk. However noble their intention of nation building, their mindset is archaic and that approach has failed. Your blind admonishment and cornering of this brand of Militant hindu gives them more reason for their self existence as you dont try to understand their grouse and have failed to come out with a solution. And exactly the same role has been played by our free Press. I would write another response that how Our free press has indulged in self fulflillment and has been unable to build an opinion which could have lead to better india as I am once again out of time. |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 493 of 5400 ) Hi all, this response is in continuance of earlier response (response no.462) . I had just stopped with the rise of phenomenon called militant hindu and would continue from there.. Although our secularists and the inteligensia ( read press )would hate to admit, but the fact is that this Militant hindu draws sufficient silent support from mainstream Hindus who may not support its activities like Gujrat riot but also would not mind blinking at these acts. This state of majority hindu is not very hard to understand and has not been developed recently. This is the result of 50 yrs of Gandhian-Nehruvian definition of secularism which accepts the notion that minority communalism is less harmful than majority communalism. This idea is as archaic as the reservation policy for the less privildeged which has till date have not helped the less privilidegd class en masse and just to cite its singular failure, has not resulted in a single billionaire entrepreneur from this class. The definition of secularism as envisaged by Gandhi-Nehru and its practices by congress party (And i would come to the collusion of free press in promoting that view)in last fifty years has given rise to the feeling among the majority hindu that hindu lives are cheaper than Muslim lives. Contrary to bringing the muslims to mainstream by these falsical practices of secularism, it has done them tremendous harm and has further alienated them from mainstream. Not a single muslim live has been alleviated by this policy, but today they have to face the wrath of majority hindu and also have to deal with self imposed leaders like Bukhari and Shahabuddin ( raised by secular parties ). Failure of this brand of secularism is not very hard to guess and lies in its concept as it is basically divisive rather than assimilitive. This secularism splits asunder the core of nationhood in two parts, us and them. It is because of this that a ghetto mentality is built in minority community and they remain as poor as they were at the time of independence, probably poorer both in thought and resources. And it is this reason that they are so easy prey for crime mongers and prophets of fanaticism. And acts of this guys fuels the fire of Militant hindu and hardening of opinion among silent majority. And if this vicious cycle continues ,you could safely predict that the polarization of socities would be complete sooner than we think and would lead to sureshot miseries of civil war. And we need our socio-political thinkers to rise to challenge and come with a solution. And this is where , i have my primary differences with guys like Mr P Mishra and his ilk. However noble their intention of nation building, their mindset is archaic and that approach has failed. Your blind admonishment and cornering of this brand of Militant hindu gives them more reason for their self existence as you dont try to understand their grouse and have failed to come out with a solution. And exactly the same role has been played by our free Press. I would write another response that how Our free press has indulged in self fulflillment and has been unable to build an opinion which could have lead to better india as I am once again out of time. |
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krbose 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 494 of 5400 ) LOL look at these cowards luwmann, karapall and thetruth...they seem to be in extreme agony right now and therefore are making an extreme effort to vomit out as much hatred and profanities as they can. They don't even realize that they are being laughed at and mocked by most people. BY filling up the messageboard with profanities they seem to derive some kind of sadist or probably masochist pleasure. The more you shout and scream like hoodlums the more ignorable you guys become. You are guys just sick. There are other people on this messageboard who are conveying their opinions in favor or against..but at least they have the decency to express themselves in a way that would make the reader think and reflect. Till now they have expressed their hatred for muslims, christians, south indians, sikhs, jains, baudh , bangalis (thats me) and a lot of hindus by addressing them as traitor hindus just because they show thier concern. I urge everyone onthis borad to condemn such people and let them know they are being ignored. Actually these are the kind of peole who are the root cause of "riot after riot" . These are the people who burnt the 58 hindus in godhra and then went out looted shops and killed muslims in Gujarat. They do not belong to any caste creeed religion. They hate Gandhi, they hate Khudi ram Bose (krbose)because he is a bengali. One of these guys in response to pmishra2 said that Alexander went back to Greece becasue he was impressed by the Bravary of Porus (did they conclude this after watching the movie on Sikandar and Porus LOL). But because the Mughals stayed therefore the muslims shouls be turned out of India. Well then what about hindus themselves, I mean the kashmiri pandits, the whole pandit community of north India, infact most of the north Indians..they are the descendants of the Aryans who came from Europe to the Indus valley. So sould the people from north india especially the pandits go to Germany or should INdia invade Germany. The natives of this place were the Dravidians and thats the South Indians. So does that mean that the south Indians should ask the North Indians to leave India now? In fact these cowards ( thetruth, luwmann, karapall) are probably descendants of the Aryans from Germany and therfore have inherited some of the Hitler like NAzi genes in them, that has turned them into the cowards they are. Like Hitler they will probably one day commit suicide when these cowards will come to face the reality some day. Bottom line: these are sick people. Condemn them and ignore them. Also ignore the profanities that they will be spitting out in response to this message. |
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krbose 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 495 of 5400 ) hey pmishra2 Ignore the ignorant, lowly, scoundrels like these crap alls and luwmanns. thats the best way to deal with them. BTW that was a good reply. Just wait and see now. A paragraph or two of profanities is to follow. |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 496 of 5400 ) When upper castes kill dozens of dalits in Bihar (which has happened many times before) do dalits all over India have a 'right' to kill their upper caste neighbours, set their children on fire, and loot their property in 'retaliation' ? If the answer to above question is NO, are Hindus of Ahmedadbad justified in killing their Muslim neighbours, set their children on fire and looting their property because of what Muslims did to Hindus in Godhra ? |
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ssgarg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 497 of 5400 ) luwmann and karapall and the truth a fucking disgrace and an insult to humanity. why do we have such monkeys in india. look at these racists, they probably even look like monkeys, the bastards. Ashok singhal, advani, arun shourie, vajpayee, MM joshi and piglets like Thackrey all these morons and friends of luwmann look like monkeys, the bastards. is it a coincidence? not at all. thay are just a few years removed on the evolutionary scale. |
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sshyam 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 498 of 5400 ) mumbai02, I understand your point,though I totally dont agree with ,I think I can explain how the opposing point of veiw works. Dalits didnt and will not ask for a seperate country.Also there holy places are not in Arabia.Also there no dalit majority country next to us threatening our existence. |
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dashrath 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 499 of 5400 ) I agree with you ssgarg and krbose this juvenile sloganeering tripe the best these luwmanns and karpalls can come up with. But then, commie turds like these probably got most of their education during sloganeering, as can be easily discerned from their vacuous braindead posts. |
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prem_d 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 500 of 5400 ) It is kinda funny (in an ironic way!) to see how we guys just immediately polarize ourselves on an issue. Once someone started to say something that we didnt like, we just formed a group and say nasty demeaning things about the other(s). This, inspite of us being educated and well-aware. This is what is happening in current day India, one group believes in something and without listening to the other group, tries to push through its agenda with a show of strength. I do understand that Karapall and a few others have a different idea about all this than the rest of us. But I have consistently read what he has to say, and I dont agree with it. I would like him not to use all those profanities, but well, if thats the way he proposes to project himself, then let it be. It would be a reflection on his character or his thinking. But as he said, there ARE some people who think that some Muslims killed those Hindus in Godhra and so it is justified that they can kill Muslims in retaliation anywhere. I think that we have lost the value of human life in our country. We just dont seem to get affected when 50 people die in a bus accident or a 100 drown, unless its one we know. Similarly, if a Muslim dies, even if its his neighbor, a Hindu doesnt really care, and vice versa. And we are supposed to be harping "Unity in Diversity"??? yeah right!! If you are a true Indian, I challenge you, to take it in your days life, to go out of your way one little time and make a difference. Dont care if that person is a Muslim or a Hindu or anything else..just do it and you will know that its much better than just forming groups that agree with what we have to say. We do live and breathe politics but it should not become our way of life, we appoint people for that and its their responsibility to do that. If Karapall is from a constituency where there is a Muslim MP, I dont know what he would do, move maybe? Or if a Muslim company offers him a dream job, he wouldnt take it, would he? I dont know how many others harbor the same thoughts. Think and act, because we are the most logical and rational people in the world, atleast until now. Lets not show the world that we, the educated class have forgotten and turned a blind eye to the illiterate class and made them into blood thirsty animals. Be Proud, just as I am, to be Indian. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 501 of 5400 ) pmishra2, From your post it is evident that one of us has hate eating through their guts, and it is not me. You are a pathetic, laughable piece of dinosaur dung whose only defense for his intellectually bankrupt claptrap is to wish death on people who disagree with him...which fits in with the general mindset of leftist scum in India. Oh well. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 502 of 5400 ) dashrath, try to be original for a change and use terms like "commie turds" only if you know what they mean... or dont. You are the weakest link. ciao. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 503 of 5400 ) prem_d, Well, good points about my use of profanity, but you probably note that I use it selectively against people who try the usual commie stunt of labeling people who have different views than they do. Personally, I would not live or work in a muslim country or in a muslim neighbourhood. I know enough about these barbarians to stay away from them. Professional life is different, and I can tolerate professional interaction with muslims, as long as they dont push their identity in my face...just like I dont bring my personal views to my job. This is also known as being a professional, if that means anything to the commies around. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 504 of 5400 ) prem_d, As for "value of life" in India, it would seem that the pseudo-secular scumbags in the media believe that the lives of three whites burnt in orissa are more valuable than that of 58 Indians burnt in Godhra, if we go by the amount of crocodile tears and newprint spent on these two events in the english press. Now, these scumbags in the media would like to dictate to the rest of us the value of different kinds of people based on their religious identity and skin color. This is unacceptable behavior for journalists in most developed countries, but passes for "journalistic integrity" among the commie scumbags in the media. |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 505 of 5400 ) hi Dear mishra and krbose You guys have all the talent to be a politician, you really do talk like those fucking secular funadamentalists ( read media and yadavs and sonias ). Samaj wadi party will definetly take u. I fail to understand why ur kind of ppl are afraid to speak the truth. Atleast u can dare to do it on this web site. No yadav is gonna hang u, so chill out. If its not coz of some kind of scare then u guys need to go through some psychotherapy. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 506 of 5400 ) rachna who u r asking , this krbose who is the dirtiest ass , ash_ram ? this man krbose alias ash_ram is a muslim, for some strange reason he is taking a hindu name. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 507 of 5400 ) i have a question to krbose. ----- Around 2 crores hindus are masscred in pigstan in last 54 years . Hindu poulation in pigstan in 1948 was 23% , now they are less than 1.5%. krbose , what is ur comment on it ???-------- krbose , come with a straight answer,don't give a lecture like the "secular" mulayams. mr krbose , u r free to abuse me for asking this "communal" question here. please answer. later i will ask a "secular" question on palestine , kosovo , bosnia..., so come on "mr secular"... |
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krbose 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 508 of 5400 ) Dr.James Joseph Karapally St.Antony's Skin Clinic Nr..St.Thomas High School, Palai, Kerala - 686 575. Run for your life now !!! |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 509 of 5400 ) krbose , so u r really a muslim. what is ur name ? which place do u live ???? ur message above gives us clear idea how u should be treated. u will be treated perfectly well, be sure about that. |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 510 of 5400 ) Krbose Didnt know u have skin problem too... |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 511 of 5400 ) thetruth, What does Pakistan have to do with Indian muslims? Are they the one and same thing? Pakistan is a backward society which is pretty much failed. In 10-20 years they will be totally irrelevant and begging for jobs and work from India. What is your point here? Everyone knows Pakistan is a hell-hole run by Mullahs and Generals. So, why do you want Indian also to be a hell-hole? If your neighbor is crazy should you also be crazy? BTW, are you a human being? Your name sounds more like that of an insect, say a cockroach or centipede. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 512 of 5400 ) krbose, There are many James Karapallys in India, you moron (or do you think that James Karapally is a rare indian name?). Besides, my identity is not the issue here. "secular" turds like you are tin-pot fascists who dont have the brains to defend your views, if we go by your tactic of labeling anyone who has a different view than yours. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 513 of 5400 ) pmishra2, Maybe you have not noticed that most of the support for paki terrorists in India comes from Indian muslims. Does that answer your question, or are you too stupid to figure such things out by just keeping an eye on the news?? |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 514 of 5400 ) ssgarg, if you want to use profanities then be original. you are trying to copy me. now is that fair matherchot. NO. because you say you are not like me. so don't copy me benchot. you communist nincompoop, brainless idiots like you cant think even of profanities. what is your point matherchot. dont say you dont like what karapall or the truth say. what is your point you brainless dick sucking idiot. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 515 of 5400 ) pmishra2 matherchot, you are contradiction personified. are you totaly insane you sister fucker. you say pakistan is a hell hole run by mullahs and generals (u r correct). and then you say we should not be like them. what exactly do you think i am pointing out, the same benchot. pakistan is supported by nearly all muslim religious opinion in india. do muslims in india criticize pakistan for what it is. NO. muslims whether they are in india or pakistan are no different. they are not secular. they are all theocratic whether they are in india or pakistan. these hypocrates mouth off about secularism only in india because stupid hindus like you want to pamper them and put up with their bullshit. if these assholes want islamic laws they should be kicked out to pakistan. that country was established for mad dog muslims. in india we need one civil code, no islamic bullshit, no sharia, just one law of the land. grow up and be truthful you matherchot. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 516 of 5400 ) luwmann, you are back with your ranting. Here is a nice report from Gujarat. You want to see what happens when the VHP extremists take over --- --------------------------------- Girish Dani, an elected member of the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry and a former president of the Gujarat Chamber of Commerce, said, "Gujarat has lost out badly. A few days back [Wipro chairman] Aziz Premji said correctly that outsiders are not interested in investing in Gujarat anymore. Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra's chief ministers are all the time soliciting industrialists' investment while here in Gujarat nobody cares! Even by a conservative estimate Gujarat's total trade loss is Rs 5,824 crore, while the production loss is around Rs 1,800 crore --------------------------------------- Who are the real terrorists here? Who is destroying the country? |
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satchit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 517 of 5400 ) How mis that Ram or Allah not able to save innocent children in Gujarat????? BS |
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satchit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 518 of 5400 ) How is that Ram or Allah not able to save innocent children in Gujarat????? BS |
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satchit 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 519 of 5400 ) How is that Ram or Allah not able to save innocent children in Gujarat????? BS |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 520 of 5400 ) pmishra2, your stupidity knows no bounds. i cannot waste even my profanities on an idiot like you. i am not supporting what happened in gujrat after godhra. idiot, what i am saying is that if you imbecile secular morons continue to cajole the utterly communal muslims, things like gujrat will happen. the whole country will turn into a battle ground. premji is a muslim and he should shut up about gujrat. what he says is bullshit. if he wants communal peace he should advise the muslims to behave themselves. if muslims in AP or Maharashtra had done the same thing as in godhra, those states would go up in flames too. don'y talk a bunch of bullcrap. you cannot look at gujrat in isolation. it is gugrat today, AP tomorrow, and maharashtra after that. idiotic fucking morons like you are a shame leading the country down the drain. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 521 of 5400 ) pmishra2, what has the congress done for the country. nothing for 40 years. has the bjp done anything. nothing. the fuckers are behaving like the congress now. vajpayee will destroy the bjp. he is trying to act like nehru a stupid fool. if anything he should emulate sardar patel, but no, he wants to show his secular credentials and ignore the real problem. the bjp will be wiped out in the next 2 yeras if vajpayee continues with his bullshit. it is not aprty with a difference, it is a congress clone. the people do not want two congress parties. either the bjp cadre wakes up and demands that vajpayee go back to it's original commitment. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 522 of 5400 ) pmishra2, the following is required to turn the country around, 1. ruthless supression of violent anti-national activities. repeal of article 370 in kashmir. all states should be treated equally. 2. promolgation of a national civil code that applies to all. no sharia bullshit. this has to end. 3. elimination of pakistan as a threat, that means total war with that country and elimination of pakistan as a state that threatens india. this is essential for progress in the region. 4. a ban on all religion based parties and the communist party. the communists are traitors. present law is enough to ban these anti-national bastards. 5. warning to bangla to stop infiltration or face ruthless military action. cannot put up with this any longer. 6. progress comes out of peace and strength. not cajoling communal bastards of any color and kind. bastards like you should wake up and call a spade a spade. security is essential for progress. no amount of bhajan singing and apeasement will achieve that. wars have to be fought when necessary. i am not going to waste my profanities on imbeciles like you any more. |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 523 of 5400 ) luvvmann for PM Dear mishra i appreciate your concern for the country , but some how u refuses to come to terms that muslims are not and will never be an active participants in the overall development of the country. They have just no patriotism , they are always pron to crime , they even refuses to say " bharat mata ki jay" as it sounds hindu. But the fact is that we have to live with it, we cant be like milosovic or hitler. We cant induldge in ethnic cleansing. So the solution is that we have to stop soft padelling of minorities, uniform civil code , no reservations, etc. Dear mishra the facts are so clear in front of you but you wanna stick on to your out dated views. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 524 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate pmisra This guy luwmann is born and bought up in an intellectually deprived enviroment,typical of indian middle calss living in ghettos.These people have a lifelong habit of seeing things parochially and onesidedly.They have deeply internalised the sangh parivar`s bullshit rhetoric that muslims are communal,separatists,barbaric etc etc(this is called "projection" in psychological terms).No matter how much u condemn the godhra killings they will cry "hindu bashing".There half literate RSS masters have well trained them in diversionary tactics and in arguing just for the sake of arguement.So misra jee i suggest dont strain ur intellectual resourses on cheaper by dozen pseudo intellectual fanatics like luwmann.I had long stopped posting messages here.LETS WATCH THE SAFFRON "MONKEY DANCE". |
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sshyam 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 525 of 5400 ) Many people have spoken of 'seperate civil code' as method of pampering muslims.These laws are patently unjust.But if muslims want such laws for themselves, does it in anyway affect Hindus? Aren't muslims shooting in their own foot.Its their problem isnt it.Is it really pampering or keeping them in dark ages? |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 526 of 5400 ) i agree with ashishs The number of people killed in gujarat by the vhp-bajrang dal combine is greater than the people killed by the muslim extremist organisations in kashmir in the last ten years.Still the latter are branded as terrorists while the former are glorified by people like luwmann and other pseudo intellectual,half literates like him. I guess luwmann has just started reading "mein kampf" and zealously came up with a fantastic suggestion of eliminating pakistan.I suggest him to also read about the post war consequences in germany and avoid making immaturely hasty conclusions...lol |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 527 of 5400 ) rachna s, you are being fooled by the VHP and RSS. Our country has many problems. Among those problems is our backward muslim minority. We need to figure out a strategy to help them move forward (and punish those who break the law). Do you think the random killings in Ahmedabad of honest decent muslim citizens helped in any way? How can random murder of people solve anything? People say these Masjids that were built near Temples (some malicously) are a great disgrace. No doubt these show the hatred of the islamic rulers and their lack of civilization. But I will tell you what I consider a truly great disgrace and great disaster. Even today every village in India lacks a good primary school. This is such a great tragedy that words can barely describe its horrible impact. Why can't we adopt this as our slogan? In every village a pucca-school with a full-time teacher within 2 years. It can be done. More that 20,000 crores was burnt in gujarat by gangsters (includes VHP people). More than $500 million was wasted on security for this silly tamasha of the sliyanyas. How many new elementary schools could have been built with that money? 1000's! But do the VHP or RSS care about this. NO. They are playing exactly the same vote bank politics as Imam Bukhari or Syeb Shahbuddin. They are playing the same games that the congress party has played in the 80s. And you are being duped by them! |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 528 of 5400 ) Yaar Rachna, mein phida ho gaya, tumpe nahin tumhare views par. Mein aaj se hi apna pseudo-secularist bastron ka tyag karke VHP-RSS approved bastron ko apnata hoon. Has the RSS suggested a dress code for Indians in general and Muslims in particular? Agar aisa hai to mujhe dress-code ke bare mein info jaroor dena , okay? |
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luwpally 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 529 of 5400 ) http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/270302/dLNAT 06.asp |
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prem_d 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 530 of 5400 ) I do agree with luvvmann on one thing!! (JUST ONE! haha...) That ALL religious based parties should go.. This would mean, that the Muslim League should go, the VHP should go, and the BJP should go. If these are to exist, they cannot be in anyway politically biased or should involve in any political activity. The law should be changed to ensure that. And I do take strong exception to a remark by someone who said that Muslims in India dont have patriotic feelings for India. Come to my hometown in Tamil Nadu and I will show you and personally introduce you to some Muslim friends of mine who will stand up and do ANYTHING for our India. Try talking one bad thing about India, let alone about their Hindu and Christian neighbors and you sure will have a lot of explaining to do. Dont even start generalizing on that.. because its stupid and ambiguous to do so. Go to our border with Pakistan and see how many muslim army personnel are deployed in -40C temperatures to guard our country. If they werent loyal, they would just let the enemy soldiers to come through, right? When Zaheer Khan or Mohammed Kaif hits a century or brings India to victory, dont tell me that you are not cheering for them! Yes, I do feel that enough public empathy wasnt shored up for the death of those Hindus as much as those Muslims. Maybe because some idiots thought that Hindus are more tolerant and that they would take anything lying down. NO WAY! I dont know what would have happened if this incident had happened in reverse, if Hindus had torched a train in Hyderabad and Muslims went on a killing spree there. Would it be just that 2000+ Hindu families die for the idiocracy of a few? NOT!!! I just wish that the Muslim and Hindu leaders dont keeping playing their population as pawns in this dangerous game they play. Babri Masjid was never heard of till the day the Hindus laid claim to it. And once they did, some sick minded people decided to play a power game between themselves and use all of us as pawns. And how sad that we have all fallen trap in that game! I do pray everyday for our country and I would like each and every one of you to do the same.. God, whoever He might be to you and me, is the only answer to heal this wound that we have inflicted upon ourselves. |
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ganeshs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 531 of 5400 ) zombee_s@hotmail.com Question for rishi_s ashishs and joy and all others who have not lost their sanity. What do yu guys think should be done to or rather "for" people like luwmann and karapall and this new friend of theirs rachnas? I mean go and look at thier message history and the number of mesages they have posted. The 'number' of messages makes one think they care but the content of their messages really turns this messageborad into what ashsih righlty characterized as SAFFRON MONKEY DANCE to be contnd... |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 532 of 5400 ) ganeshs, you are the monkey buffoon. there is no saffron monkey dance. i am an agnostic. i dont believe in religion per se. i was born a hindu and proud to be indian. by pointing out facts and arguing about them does not make me bad or karapall bad or rachna or anybody. i respect peoples religious feelings. both muslim and hindu. the secular bastards think only muslims have religious rights. not so fucker. hindus have rights too including sikhs, christians et al. no discrimination. time and again i have suggested a common civil code, ban on religious parties. if the muslim parties are banned then i will agree to a ban on the VHP and Bajrang Dal. not otherwise. the root cause of the present problem is the fact that islam does not believe in coexistance. they wipe out native cultures and the process is continuing in india. this is a tragedy. it has nothing to do whether hindus are good aor muslims are bad. muslim intolerance and communalism is a fact of life. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 533 of 5400 ) ganeshs, before you mouth off some non-sense look at the facts. muslim communalism has created pakistan. jinnah fucked gandhi and nehru and exposed their hypocracy. the current situation has very little to do with the RSS and VHP fuckers. gandhi was upset that his applecart of non-violence was trashed by jinnah and his goons. he lost face. nehru tried to act overcivilized and lost half of kashmir to pakistan, 40 thousand square miles to china, and continued economic decline. idiots like you don't want to discuss issues. india was ahead of korea and china and taiwan and all the other mahjor countries in 1947. the third world looked upo to india. look at what we are today. is the RSS responsible for this. they were banned by nehru you imbecile. the VHP is a new baby born out of the continued one sided secularism of the congress party. either you morons wake up and stop your one sided crap and encourage measures that are required, or we will all sink into a hell hole of islamic terror, countered by hindu terror. the latter is a reaction and should be expected and necessary. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 534 of 5400 ) ganeshs, there are some fucking imbeciles here who don't want to look at facts. they say i am a lower middle class uneducated hindu trying to show my hindu identity. to those morons i wish to tell them to live in a world of make believe. i have seen all corners of the world and i do not want to comment on my education and degrees. those are not important. a person's conviction and views are more important. are we going to follow the stupid nehru or are we going to follow the path shown by sardar patel, subhas bose, and bhagat singh. i will choose the latter thank you. we have tried nehru for too long, he is a fool and an idiot. the RSS/VHP/Bajrang dal are immaterial. the vast body of hindus and muslims are being taken for a ride by the congress party and clones. the BJP is no better. vajpayee is leading the BJP down the drain. they have lost their ideological moorings and will be wiped out. the uneducated sonia gandhi who could not pass high school is leading the country now. why are my esteemed contibutors here worried about my education. they can accept sonia for PM but i cannot write what i feel. you fucking secular morons are not secular, you are anti-hindu. that is the problem. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 535 of 5400 ) "Beware of the man who has nothing to loose". How can India ever progress by terrorising 25% of its population. Can a country ever grow, with such a large discontent population. If the Sangh cronies are thinking that they will systematically supress or get rid of 25% of India's population, they must be really fools. See what's going on in Isreal, even with all the F16, Apachi, Armoured vehicles etc etc, they still could not sustain rock throwing kids. And here you are talking about Indian citizens who have all the political rights as any one else. "I think it is the RSS who needs the good will of Indians now". There can be reaction to an action and again there can be reaction to another reaction, but then it will not be called India, it will be called Rwanda. The sooner the Sangh cronies get this in their mind the better. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 536 of 5400 ) Well let us analyse the damage that the Sangh has done to India in the last 1 month. Out of 172 countries in the world there an about 35 muslims countreis, and about 50 christian dominated countries. If today UN is to pass a resolution against India, there goes 85 assured votes against India. Sangh has wiped out what Gandhi and Nehru saved for India in last 100 years in less then 1 month. World is watching, it will not be long when the Christian and Muslim dominated countries get together and bomb India like the way they did to Yugoslavia. The Sangh cowards will go into hiding then or they will go to War Crime tribunal like Milosevic. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 537 of 5400 ) Josh007, live in a make believe world matherchot. the many muslim countries you are talking about will kill themselves. arn't you ashamed matherchot that a small country like israel is fucking a billion muslims and buttfucking their honor. fucker the muslim countries you are talking about have no balls. they can't fight israel. you fuckers are hijdas. in america you fuckers are hiding behind closed doors, shaving off your dirty beards, and changing your names to christian sounding ones. matherchot get some brains you pig shit headed goon. if you motherfuckers don't start to behave in india your fucking end is near. beacuse of the socalled secular matherchots and gandhi nehru non-sense you are indulging in violence and anti-national activities. it will coem to an end soon, believe me. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 538 of 5400 ) Wow luvvmann it is so nice to see you getting frustraterd. The last time I felt this good was when Chagan Bhujpal kicked Bal Thackrey's bolls. Vent your ferustrations luvvmann that's ok...what else can you do anyway. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 539 of 5400 ) josh07 motherfucker, you gutless muslim imbecile. start behaving matherchot. enough of your mullah bullah. you fuckers will bite the dust. the process has started gandu. wait and see. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 540 of 5400 ) Mr. Josh what 25% are you talking off. Do you surf the net while you are drunk. The muslim population in India is 121 million or 12.1% of the population. Of the 35 muslim countries, most do not agree on any single point. What 50 christian countries are you talking off. European society has become atheistic. It is in a state of flux, they are moving from christianity to buddhism. The only country that christianity still has a firm hold is the US. Speaking of Gandhi and Nehru, Gandhi stooped against the Muslims, Nehru prostrated before them and today's congressmen lets them walk all over them. If thats your idea of secularism, you need a brain transplant. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 541 of 5400 ) Josh007, I disagree with your analysis while I agree that luwmann and his insane buddy Brahmos are fruitcakes. India needs to do what is right for the country and Indians. Just because some other "christian" or "muslim" country is powerful and maybe "angry" or whatever is irrelevant. India does face a challenging situation with deeply backward societies confronting it (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia). But violence against our own minorities is just plain committing suicide. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 542 of 5400 ) No wonder I like fruitcakes. By the way Mr. Mishra, you have a point there that continued violence against our minorities shall tear the fabric of the society. But the problem lies in this particular minority of ours who use violence as their dearest tool. I agree that 12% of the population should not be held hostage by the 82% of the population but neither should those 82% be held hostage by the minority 12%. Those people who believe in short term personal gains by appeasing the minorities are spreading poison in the Indian society which shall have drastic repurcursions in the future. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 543 of 5400 ) Josh, Two things: (1) The UN is an impotent worthless organization that has no relevance in today's world, other than the ability of powerful nations to screw poor african countries. (2) Muslim population in India is closer to 12%. It is certainly not 25%. (3) The minority cannot hold the majority hostage without long-term repercussions. As the RSS rightly stated: the minority cannot live in peace without the goodwill of the majority (the vice-versa is also true and is in fact the problem. The minority has zero goodwill towards the majority and it will blow up in the faces soon enough). |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 544 of 5400 ) pmishra2, So I guess violence against the majority is more acceptable to you, eh?? Well done, asshole. You have just exposed your deep humanity and tolerance. Self-loathing hindu fuks like you should be lined up and shot. |
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ssgarg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 545 of 5400 ) all those who love monkeys please visit this site http://www.flowgo.com/flowgo2_view.cfm ?page_id=28400 |
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ssgarg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 546 of 5400 ) and this one http://www.flowgo.com/flowgo2_view.cfm? page_id=16211 |
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ssgarg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 547 of 5400 ) Hey Karpally, You cannot be a christian for sure. Infact I suspect that you are the same guy as luvmann. Didn't one of you say the same thing about krbose and and the other guy some ash... Idiot I am a hindu and and I say whatever I have to say w/o hiding behind some fake identity. Your RSS fathers would kill you for this blasphemy you know that. Any ways even if you are a christian then you won't have to wait that long. You are next on the Saffron Agenda. I hope you are aware of this: Since January 1998 there has been more violence against the Christian community than in all the 50 years of the country's Independence. Nuns have been raped, priests executed, Bibles burnt, churches demolished, educational institutions destroyed and religious people harassed. This is persecution in the strict dictionary meaning of the word "pursue with enmity and ill-treatment". 50 per cent of these (incidents) have occurred in Gujarat where the BJP is in power. |
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ssgarg 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 548 of 5400 ) How come both of you simultaneously decide not t coment anything on the topic " Christianity more dangerous species to hinduism" Common you guys get real. Guys like you can will never have the guts to say the things you say in the open. You wouls either do it in a big mob or crowd where no one can identify who said and did what? Or you just hide behind these fake web IDs and think that your philosophy or rahter sick philosophy is getting promoted. YOu guys are the same guys who write pornographic notes in the toilets and feel happy about it because the fact that someone would read those notes and figures and be offended. Your thoughts come from the shitpot and probably that is where you guys belong. So better stick to your old buisiness in the public toilets. And also never mention people like Bhagat Singh in you shit comments, because some day some folllower of Bhagat SIngh would kill you for defaming him and personifying the great freedom fighter as some coward from the Bajrang Dal or RSS or VHP. So get lost. To add to your frustrations let me tell you something that I wont be visiting this board anymore. So you can shout as much as you can and please your sick minds. May be i would visit once in a while to see the progress in the mokey dance. And last but not the least. Let me reveal to you my identity. I am Ganesh Kumar Srivastava from Bomaby and reside in Dadar. I a physician and my clinic is right outside the Dadar railway station. So come and visit me some day and I 'll teach you guys how to behave. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 549 of 5400 ) luwmann, so you believe violence against Jain's is acceptable? So you believe violence against married women is acceptable? What is going on here? I am just using luwmann's nonsensical technique of discussion. His idea of discussion is to take outrageous statement that no one has ever made ("violence against the majority is acceptable") and scream and rant about it. Grow up, luwmann, if you can. We aren't fooled by your diversionary tactics. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 550 of 5400 ) Karapall: I never mentioned the word muslim when I said 25% of India's population. Muslims are 12%, but what about Christians, Sikhs and the Hindus who are agains the RSS. Comming to UN being an impotent worthless organization, if you are right, then why are you grumbling so much about Nehru not having taken the Security council seat. Also why is India begging virtually every "Micronesia" to support it for Security council seat. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 551 of 5400 ) What India needs is a vigilante group to wipe out these pseudo-secular commie motherfukkers like teesta setalvad and Vinod Mehta, not to mention the traitorous whore Anita Pratap and her ilk. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 552 of 5400 ) josh Use your brains, pal. Only members of the UNSC have the power to do whatever they damn well please. I hope you know of the veto powers that come with being a member of the UNSC. India could have used the UN like the condom that it is, much like it is used by the current members of the UN to further their own interests. The UN is impotent precisely because of the veto powers of the UNSC members. I am all for acquiring more power, which is why I pissed on the cretin Nehru and his boneheaded decision to hand over the seat to china. China is using this same seat in the UNSC to screw India's interests whenever it can. There is no such thing as international law. International law can be succinctly described as "might is right". |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 553 of 5400 ) ssgarg, Braindead monkeys (no offense to those fine primates) like you should come up with better arguments than "you cannot be Jim Karapally". Secondly, many of the so-called christian attacks were later proven to be plain robberies or land feuds. You would have known this if you had paid attention to the news instead of sucking dick at your local commie commune. Besides, christians in India have never indulged in violence against other Indians, and as such they are irrelevant to the current climate created by islamic barbarians in India. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 554 of 5400 ) pmishra2, You are the asshole who seems to claim that violence against the majority is acceptable. So if there is anyone indulging in diversionary tactics, it is you, asshole. |
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pmishra2 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 555 of 5400 ) karapall, In addition to being a hate monger, you are also a liar. I challenge you to find a single line of text I have written justifying violence against anyone. BTW, please stop beating your wife and children! This is terrible. Enjoy a taste of your own nonsensical argument! |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 556 of 5400 ) pmishra2, Well, well, well, commies cannot seem to take what they dish out apparently. I am sure a lot of people would be interested in the moral high ground you claim to hold with your opinion that hindus in Godhra deserved to be burnt. I am sure your comments are there for everyone to see. I aint doing any of your legwork for you, pal. Have a nice short life, motherfukker. See you in hell. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 557 of 5400 ) pmishra2, I am just pointing out all the hate that is an intrinsic part of islam. Why dont you explain how I am responsible for hatemongering when all I am doing is pointing out the verses from the Quran you need to check out. I shall be posting all those verses again along with links to online versions of the Quran. No one has to take my word for it; they can check out islam's message of hate all by themselves. braindead dipshits like you should get this into your thick skull: you, as a hindu and non-muslim, are the enemy as far islam is concerned, you cretin. But then you and your descendants dont deserve to exist in peace if you kiss muslim ass out of sheer cowardice. The future opens to only those who defend themselves and their own. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 558 of 5400 ) pmishra2, are you gone bonkers. i have said nothing about jains or the stuff you are mouthing off. are you a psycho too apart from being extremely ignorant. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 559 of 5400 ) and josh00, when did a muslim fucker like you consider the sikhs to be your friends. are you a hijda matherchot. now you want the sikhs on your side, israel on your side, america on your side to fight against india. your gand is getting screwed isn't it. your brain is going haywire isn't it. a small country like israel is butt fucking you monkeys. you motherfuckers can't do a thing except beg america. next saddam will bite the dust. then who will you cry to matherchpot. thu gaddar napak behaya haivan. kya tereko sharam nahin athi benchot. just wait. the end is nearing for you matherchots. india, russia, and america on one side. do you really think you pigs can really do anything. pray to allah to save those stinking butts of yours from extinction. verily allah hates you cowardly gandus. verily will he screw you. |
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luvpally 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 560 of 5400 ) Ha Ha Ho Ho I luv to see these two-in-one guys luvmann and karabhai in pain, extreme. Now they are behaving like grade 5 kids. look at this one "india, russia, and america on one side" Its just like 10 year old saying "Dekhna maray baday bhayya aayengay to main bhi gali ka sher ban jaunga" Abay saalon, kutton, kameenon ek argument to aisa do jissay yeh pata lagay kay tum log napunsak nahi ho. Abhi bhi America aur russia kee chaatany main lagay huay ho.Not others but you guys are the left overs from the Brirtish Raj, who still beleive that the gora sahab is my master. I am an active member of RSS and so was my father, YOu guys have brought nothing but shame and disgrace to waht RSS stands for. Tum log saalay aisay dhobi kay kuttay ho jo ghar kay ho na ghat kay. Gali bakatay huaay paida huay thay aur gali kha kar mar jaogay. na apna kuch bhala karogay na apnay desh na duniya ka. Free speech ki baat kartay ho salon bolna to seekh lo. Bhagat singh aur Sardar patel ki baat kartay ho ..kya unki autobiography say yeh galiyan seekhi hain. Pat anhi kis gandi naali kee paidaish ho tum log. RSS has again again said that we respect other religions and the people who follow those religions and we stand by it. Kutton bhonkna band karon. Dont give RSS a bad name. Tum dono ko auron ki kya apni 'swayam' ki izzat karna nahi aati. RSS stands for rashtriya swayam sewak sangh. To pehlay swayam ka to aadar karo. I condemn the killings of 57 Hindus in godhra. nad i would have not condemned if those responsible (hindus or muslims) were burnt alive or infact even tortured to death but I do condemn the mass killings and lootings of muslims in response. Aur kutton the people responsible for these mass killings rape and lootings of muslims were people like you. You guys think America and Russia will help you. Abay ab to jaag jao, aankahen kholo andhon. Self respect, self sufficiency, self detremination kuch hot ahai kay nahi. Ya phir jeevan bhar auron kay aagay hee khukay rahogay. Just as George Fernandes begged the US to use Indian Air Force Bases for thier war against Afghanistan. Do you think they will eevr leave Pakistan now.. Never. They never left Kuwait. They do not want Iraq they want oil. Afghanistan has oil and and they need to pass on oil pipeline through Afghanistan. Russia ever since decades has been intersted in Afghanistan for this very reason. Agar kuwait main chana ugta hota to US would have given a damn to Kuwait. And the fact is Inida main chana, chawal aur gehun hee ugta hai, and which is not sufficient for India itself. Aur oopar say India main tumharay jaisay gadhay, ullu, moorkh, napunsak baithay hain. jinko chillaany kay alawa kuch nahi aata. This is a website and the whole world has access to it. Stop your nonsense befoer the world starts hating you and me. Hawa main thookogay to tumharay moonh par hee aakar girega. |
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pooja 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 561 of 5400 ) Karapall & luvmann and other sick people The kar sewaks were not innocent and were going to rape 16 years old muslim girl just like they rape christian nuns in India. They wer not innocent, read the facts from nonbiased source before you offer your so called "another perspective" You are wrong and mislead by zionazi-India media. and Ignorants like you need to apologise!!! These Hindu extremists/terrorist have been brutalising muslims, christians, sikhs, budhist and low cast hindus and women in general, in India for over 50 years and deserve to be punished and stopped. you are a bloody hater and ignorant How dare you accuse Islam of being violent when christianity has killed more for religion than any one else? Hinduism is a racist, extremist, violent, sexist religion. read geeta and you will find unacceptance for any thing non hindu. This religion forces women to burn live with their husband's bodies, kiss men's feet every morning, pay dowry to have a submissive-slavery equivalent marriage, kill low cast hinus by calling them "untouchables". Kama Sutra, the orgy and child molestation is a part of this religion. Molestation ...well christians have that in common with this modern day Hindu. Look at India, it's poverty, class division, discrimination, human rights violation, child slavery, drug addiction, prostitution, corruption and then look at your disgusting full of lies article. Remove your filthy messages off this site. Me a hindu woman, would much rather be burned alive with a muslim in gujrat than live with the bigots of my religion....and will convert to Islam, which means peace after this Gujrat mass murder....ploted by my hindu extremist govt. -Mughals, Muslims built Taj Mahal and other symbols of glory and love-- and hindus attack to destroy it, burn it with acids. -Muslims ruled India for over 700 years and there are more hindus in India than muslim....proving the tolerance of Muslims towards hindus. They had more than enough time to abolish hinduism from India if they wanted to. Look at what christians did to spain when they conqured it by asking everyone to either convert to christianity or leave. -Muslims introduced "class" to Indian culture(which was badly needed) -Muslims introduced civilization to ignorant Indians -muslims made India....the India. and Hindus have destroyed it. Food for thought: If muslims were so bad to Hindus (as assholes like you claim) then why are there so many Hindus in gulf states today and rest of Hindus struggle to live in muslim countries? Why do they desire Muslim govt. over hindu govt? Must be something about muslims they miss after the collapse of Moghal empire... and why is ISLAM the fastest growing religion in India? |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 562 of 5400 ) joy I dont know what kind dress code RSS or vhp would suggest or has suggested for muslims but i would recommend u a birthday suit u half dick ass hole. Dont try to be a smart ass u chicken shit. I dont understand ur mindset, i havent talked anything in favour of rss and vhp u jack ass, but by looking at u ppl i really do believe that " latoo ke bhut batoo se nahi mante". U deserve bajarang dals trishul in ur dirty ass. |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 563 of 5400 ) This pooja is nobody but just another dirty muslim imposter. |
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rachna s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 564 of 5400 ) I firmly believe that all these secular fundamentalists deserve a psychotherapy ( mishras, luvpally, joys, joshs, poojas, ashishs..) we still have many nehrus... Heres why.... When we talk about common civil code.. does that mean we r talking in favour of RSS or against muslims ..does that sounds like some extremism u secular rascals? Arent we hindus have right to object injustice or some kind of a mad favour to one particular community ( read muslims ). I shudnt have written that in bracket u secular bastards? well thank god i am not working for times of india and starnews. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 565 of 5400 ) pooja , being a muslim u take a hindu name ! u muslims are so shameless ! say in the name of ur paedophile prophet, u r not lying. what a fool u r . islam is the religion which treats woman like animals. it is the most backward religion. it is for the criminals like u to follow. why it was to be spread using the sword ? even ur prophet(?) was a murderer. now the sword is not as powerful as the weapons the non-muslim countries have , so u r frustrated. u r like cockroaches , u love dirty things. we have to fight aids virus and we have to fight u too , u r like AIDS virus , harmful in every respect. Fighting u is the best thing any good people ( KAFFIRS) can do. You are the people who are against music , science and technology. U r the people who hate all HINDUS , SIKHS , BUDDHISTS , CHRISTIANS , JAINS and all others. YAH WE ARE UR KAFFIRS AND KAFFIRS WILL FIGHT U . U r the enemy of civilization. U love ignorance like the pigs love shit. U r living with a pre-historic mindset. To the world u have contributed nothing other than virus of hatred. What is ur contribution to the modern world , BURQA , MULLAHS , HATRED only ?? U r the people who killed 4 thousand people in WTC and u r the people who were dancing with joy for ur ACHIEVEMENT . U r the people who believe for all of ur dirty works of ur man , GOD will reward him with a lot of beautiful girls in heaven .... HHAA HAHAHAH ... u wrtetched idiots . U HATE THE KAFFIRS WITH ALL OF UR HEART , AND GET FRUSTRATED WHEN KAFFIRS LEAVE U FAR BEHIND . HOW WILL U COMPETE UR KAFFIRS when u keep on sending ur children to MADRASAs . U will make them jehadis . But POOJAJI ( You are ashamed of ur Muslim Name ?? ) Ur jehadis are just some mosquitoes , when they try to drink KAFFIRS blood too much, they are just killed . Where were ur jehadis when Talibans were being raped ?? Where were ur jehadis in Bosnia ??? |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 566 of 5400 ) kar sevaks were going to rape a 16 year old muslim girl ?? U r saying that u dirtiest liar Pooja ?? That is a lie and u know it very well. But POOJA ( being a muslim why are not using a muslim name ? ) ur religion teaches u to lie , so I shouldn't blame u. Ur religion teaches u to to murder all Hindus , BUDDHISTS , JAINS , SIKHS , JEWS and CHRISTIANS . Are not all of non-muslims are KAFFIRS to u ?? U try to butcher the jews in Israel and when the jews fight u back U START CRYING , SAYING U R OPPRESSED ! U TRIED to kill the CHRISTIANS in Bosnia and KOSOVO and when the CHRISTIANS fought back U WERE CRYING HOARSE . PLEASE try to get the point here .... When u try to kill all non-muslims in every way possible , don't expect all of to be in defensive always. They may fight. That was waht exactly happen in ISRAEL and in Afghanistan. |
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thetruth 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 567 of 5400 ) U muslims know nothing but hatred. U hate all non-muslims. Hatred is in ur blood. Ur heads are full of shit. To the modern world u have no contribution . U love darkness and that is why u destroyed the library of ALAXANDRIA , thereby u pushed back Human civilization by 200 years. U r again out to do the same , but people are opposing u . The purest islamic thing is ignorance and HATRED FOR NON-MUSLIMS flows though the whole concept of ISLAM . U muslims hate everyone non-muslims. But I hate only u Muslims. I love all non-muslims as they are civilised people , not the satans like u in human form. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 568 of 5400 ) gentlemen, i must agree with josh's inventive statistics. the bastard is right about the 25% in a twisted way.in 1947 muslim population in india was 9% ( not including NAPAKistan). today it is 14% by census. remember the fuckers marry 4 times and breed like dirty dogs. then there are dirty illegals from bangla that add another 2%. there are an estimated 10-20 million illegals. that brings it to 16%. then we have hindu communists (bengali fish heads)/ liberal cocksuckers/ dravidian nationalists (vohsendhan types) who are listed as hindu but infact are not hindu in any way shape or form. they form another 9% approx. that is 25%. so, josh is correct about the 25%. the mainstream hindus,sikhs,jains (socalled forward) etc. do not exceed 25%. that leaves a vast 50% of illiterate and gullible population that the congress and the communists play to and mislead time and again. it is this vast 50% that is the crucial vote. 25% of the vote in india is solidly anti-hindu (the congress and clones (SP) dominates this vote and will never give it up). the 25% of the hindu vote is immaterial. it does not count. the 50% of the hindu backward class (OBCs) vote is the next most important. hence, hindus will continue to suffer unless the backward class is roped in. this is a tremondous task and the BJP has failed. Vajpayee is more interested in writing stupid poems and looking to get the Nobel peace prize. the BJP cadre has to wake up and make immediate changes or the party with a difference will vanish. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 569 of 5400 ) thetruth, i completely agree with your analysis. yes, you are correct, man. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 570 of 5400 ) well said, thetruth, muslim whore barbarians like pooja need to be exterminated if humanity needs to move forward. These vermin are open about their hate for anything non muslim. Let me quote from the Quran in a little while which will expose the psyche of muslims like pooja. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 571 of 5400 ) pooja, you silly muslim kunt (if you are a woman, else use appropriate body part), go read prem shankar Jha's article which openly states that the bit about kar sevaks violating a 16-year old was a canard spread over email most probably by a muslim like you. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 572 of 5400 ) muslims are THE MOST deceitful treacherous assholes on the planet. They live a good life in christian countries in the west, but would not flinch about denigrating the west and supporting terrorists like Osama Bin Laden. If a muslim claims that he does not support Bin Laden, he/she is lying. For example, look at the article by the "moderate" muslim (a phantom species) Muqtedar Khan in Outlook India. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 573 of 5400 ) People who would like to check out islam's tolerance can go to www.orst.edu/groups/msa/quran Thi s is a muslim site maintained by a muslim. Now check out the following Quranic verses for their "tolerance": (sura:verse) 5:51 -- ....not to make friendship with jews and christians... 2:19 -- "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" 9:5 -- "fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them and wait for them in every stratagem" 9:123 -- "fight them on until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes allah's in its entirety" So much for islamic "peace and tolerance", eh, pooja. Why dont you find similar verses in the new testament for me, you lying, murderous muslim vermin. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 574 of 5400 ) RSS and the Sangh cronies are doing a good job of publicising the plight of minorities in India. Think about it, Muslims and Christians were always habing hard time explaining their plight to their brethren in developed countries while asking for donations. Thanks to RSS and Sangh junta, that has changed. The last I heard was millions were collected in just last 2 weeks in the mosques and churches across America and Canada. Not to mention Europe/Australia and South East Asia. Well bring it on kids....the Mullahs and Preists are laughing all the way to their banks.With enemies like us who needs a friend. |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 575 of 5400 ) There was a man in Mongolia, when he heard about Islam, he jumped out of his chair and said "What!!!! That's bull****". He marched all the way to Iraq with a single aim of destroying Islam. He did destroy Baghdad. But call it miracle, but then her bacame muslim. The speed with which he came and conquered Iraq, to destroy Islam, with the same enthu he went and captured the whole of Central Asia, China, Mongolia all for a single purpose "Spread the messagwe of Islam". History knows this man as Genghiz Khan. Who knows the next Genkhiz Khan might be out there, roaming with the Saffron head band. Only history will show. |
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kprindia 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 576 of 5400 ) kpreddy if i get power like hitler, first thing i will do is i will butcher the people who follow islam with more ferocity than hitler. india should be for hindus that is final. we can't let fundamentalism creep in among muslims around us and say let us be tolerant, they are minority, poor etc. This leftist assholes among which this newspaper is also part of it are doing from the day we got independence. In our country appeasing minorities by giving exclusive rights and changing laws in the parliament to appease one community(shah bano case) is called as secularism. Let this end , as some one pointed out another gengis khan should be born in india to wipe that bullshit monolithic religion from our land which had butchered millions durings its reign of terror. History repeats is the principle. Let this leftist and congress assholes know this truth and behave accordingly. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 577 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate "luwmann" alias "rachna" alias "karapall" alias "thetruth" alias "kprindia"is a semihuman,pseudo hindu,low IQ creature.He was picked up from the street when he was zealously participating in riots with a trishul in one hand and a kerosine-can in another.He was taught english and internet and then unleashed on this free speech forum to launch hate campaign which his masters have been doing all over india.Such people are a disgrace for our great and the earliest religion-hinduism.I appeal to all the sane people participating here not to reply to his ultra foolish,fanatic arguements.Remember "dont argue with a fool cuz the spectators dont know the difference". I know that he will then immediately make a new id but he will be again caught due to his inability to hide his anticedents(owing to low IQ...;).Instead we need to cajole such people into the national mainstream so that they can contribute their potential (no matter however low it is) to the development of the nation. |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 578 of 5400 ) Bravo karapall, Lets ponder upon the benevolence of our own religion after participating in the regular islam bashing.Ever since the later vedic period the hindu psyche is driven by caste distinctions and supression."MANUSMRITI" is the guiding force.Apart from other disabilities and crualities it inflicted on the SHUDRAS,the book gives some really "barbaric" guidelines to follow.For example- if a brahmin is chanting a shloka in front of other brahmin and if a shudra passing by happens to hear that shloka by mistake then he shall be caught and molten lead be poured into his ears. Is it not better to kill some one in typical "barbaric" muslim way than to torture and subject him to an animal like life all throughout his life(for centuries)?DHOL,GAWAR,SHUDRA AUR NARI YAH SAB TARAN KE ADHIKAARI......hats off to this benevolent attitude.I m sure u havnt red a sigle hindu text since u couldnt take off time from reading quran and finding points to humiliate and abuse muslims.Anyway,I shall also say that manusriti is an exception among all the hindu texts.The vedas,upanishadas and above all "THE GITA" are undoubtably the best books in human history.I suggest you read them.It will help you come out of the abyss of ignorance.Hinduism has been the greatest religion so far but it has recently given a point to islam by breeding fundamentalism.Thanx to the peripheral(pseudo hindu),neo literate,reactionary elements like "karapall" who have started taking the centrestage. |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 579 of 5400 ) Bravo karapall, Lets ponder upon the benevolence of our own religion after participating in the regular islam bashing.Ever since the later vedic period the hindu psyche is driven by caste distinctions and supression."MANUSMRITI" is the guiding force.Apart from other disabilities and crualities it inflicted on the SHUDRAS,the book gives some really "barbaric" guidelines to follow.For example- if a brahmin is chanting a shloka in front of other brahmin and if a shudra passing by happens to hear that shloka by mistake then he shall be caught and molten lead be poured into his ears. Is it not better to kill some one in typical "barbaric" muslim way than to torture and subject him to an animal like life all throughout his life(for centuries)?DHOL,GAWAR,SHUDRA AUR NARI YAH SAB TARAN KE ADHIKAARI......hats off to this benevolent attitude.I m sure u havnt red a sigle hindu text since u couldnt take off time from reading quran and finding points to humiliate and abuse muslims.Anyway,I shall also say that manusriti is an exception among all the hindu texts.The vedas,upanishadas and above all "THE GITA" are undoubtably the best books in human history.I suggest you read them.It will help you come out of the abyss of ignorance.Hinduism has been the greatest religion so far but it has recently given a point to islam by breeding fundamentalism.Thanx to the peripheral(pseudo hindu),neo literate,reactionary elements like "karapall" who have started taking the centrestage. |
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asifmm 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 580 of 5400 ) For God's sake let us be fair here. All the criminals in Godhra and Ahmedabad must be brought to justice.Everybody will accept this. We Muslims must do some introspection.Why should we hate people of other faith whole-heartedly ? They are people jsut like us. We must accept that we Muslims are the most responsible for Gujrat riot. We started the carnage , isn't it? Here I see a lots of fanatics from both Hindu and Muslim communities. There are sane voices among Hindus. But the sane voice is so rare among Muslims. Other people will think all Muslims are terrorists. We must do some introspection why we have become the most backward people in the world. |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 581 of 5400 ) the riots going on right now in gujarat are not communal but "class riots"......u see....a population of one billion....with all the wealth cocentrated with the top 10%.....post liberalisation phase has accentuated this wealth disparity....moreover its not only the wealth but the culture too has polarised.....with the neo rich and neo modern aping the west and mocking and looking down upon the 'laggards'.....the smarting lower class has only one weapon in there hands to feel effective and important ie.religion.....whenever a leader-self proclaimed protecter of religion-whips the communal sentiments,this laggard class finds an outlet for their pent up frustration and they do it either by "kar seva" or rioting.... this is a direct result of government's failure..they failed to bring about an equitable distribution of development....the politicians and beaurocrats were busy filling there own coffers...all plans and schemes remained on papers...no strict measures for population control..no proper education...no old age security..etc.etc.......the ayodhya and kashmir issues are the lollipops every government gives to the public so that they dont look into the gross misgovernance....communal tension is the direct fallout of it.....the tensions with pakistan and its exaggeration has led to all muslims being seen as antinationals..and the indo pak issue has become a hindu- muslim issue. So now the riots shall not surprize anyone....the saffron brigade got thriving gounds for their malicious agenda...they didnt have to work hard to convince hindus about the atrocities they suffered at the hands of muslims during medieval period...so did the mullahs who as a reaction easily convinced the illeterate and obstinate muslim masses about their relative deprivation and victimisation........ if the people are educated and prosperous,they never let these rightists poison their brains....see what happened to george haider in austria. ...gujarat is the forerunner in the industrial development and concommitantly has huge class disparities..moreover,the majority of hindus there are jain-baniyas who are always eager to display their hindu credentials and thus are easily used by the shrewd brahmins of the saffron brigade...same is the case with the lower class population there who largely consist of SC/ST/OBC................MAY THE ALMIGHTY SAVE THE NATION FROM THESE HAWKS. |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 582 of 5400 ) Quran quotes The following shows chapter 9 of the quran so anyone can read it in context. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ 009.qmt.html Here is the web site from another university. [Quran 9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the infidels wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [quran 9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book(Jews and Christians), until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [quran 9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! To read the full context, you can find the translated text of the Koran at the following website... http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html Quran: [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. ----------------------- Actually this is not really relevant to the Gujarat issue. And I wont take something written 1600 years ago very seriously. But the question is do Muslims really believe all the above ? Do they think they have to follow the Quran (and all the above) to go to heaven ? |
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Josh007 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 583 of 5400 ) Don't play with the pig, because you will have to roll in the shit. The only difference is the Pig will like it and you will not. So dear friends ignore "luwmann", "rachna", "karapall" ,"thetruth" and "kprindia". It is for your own good. |
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trishool 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 584 of 5400 ) Assalam waleykum asif bhai(read luwmann alias karapall).When did u convert to islam??....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Luwmann dear, your condition has now become really pathetic.Now you have to disguise as a muslim - your greatest enimy in this world. But moronity and immaturity exudes out of every sigle word u write and so you are caught the moment you take a new id.Or shall i say that u r not good at impostering?YOU ARE AN ESCAPIST!!You are not man enough to stick to a single face - ur true face - here.FYI, presently the majority of people in both the communities have sane voices its only perverts like you who are rigidly intolerant. (And now i shall be prepared to face his profanities-madarchod,bhenchod,imbecile etc.etc. when he takes out his frustration on me in his next mail.....lol) |
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trishool 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 585 of 5400 ) WELL SAID JOSH007.THIS IS WHAT THESE ANTI NATIONAL PIGS DESERVE-TO BE IGNORED IF NOT KILLED.BUT I INSIST THAT DONT HATE THEM.HAVE SYMPATHY WITH THEM.CUZ THEY HAVE HAD A TROUBLED CHILDHOOD.IF NEEDED WE WILL COLLECT FUNDS FOR GETTING THEM TREATED (SHOCK TREATMENT) IN GOOD MENTAL INSTITUTIONS. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 586 of 5400 ) globy, your analysis is typical communist non-sense. not everything is due to economic deprivation. communalism is more dangerous among the educated classes than the uneducated. pakistan was established not by the muslim underclass but by the educated elite (jinnah bastard and cohorts). the more educated you are the more dangerous you become. hitler and his cohorts were thought to be the heirs to the most cultured class and people in europe, the germans. the muslim lower class in india is certainly not the problem. it is the muslim educated class that is most communal and anti-national. the educated muslim leadership is utterly communal and misleads the uneducated. the former are more dangerous. the same with the communists in bengal. this educated class is the most anti-national of all creaures. even a rikshaw puller with no education is better than this bengali leftist moron. it is not education that is the key but what education and what tradition. that is the key. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 587 of 5400 ) walekum assalam, trishool matherchot napak badboo soowar ke aulad. have you gone bonkers u benchot. i have no idea who asif is and there was another muslim who said he was tired of the muslim communities bullshit. it would be nice if more muslims emulated these decent and thoughtful muslims not pigshits like you. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 588 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate Globy,i guess yours is one of the best analysis i have come across in this forum.You are right,this is a population-resourse ratio problem. In gujarat,the muslims are financially better off than in other states and there was a stiff economic competetion which was given a communal turn by the sangh cronies.And please dont mind "luwmann".He is on ignore. |
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globy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 589 of 5400 ) The retaliationary genocide in gujarat was triggered by the godhra massacre of the carsevaks by the muslims.But the muslims of gujarat are paying the price not for the godhra incident alone.They are at the recieving end of the general pent up anger related to the conflict with pakistan and the massacre of hindus in jammu.Not to mention the saffron brigade`s consistent efforts to remind the hindus about the persecution they suffered in the medieval ages.This is where we are unfair to them (muslims). In jammu,the terrorists who carry on the killings of hindus are phenominally different from the gujarati muslims with respect to nationality,motives and even race.The former are proffessional mercenaries hired by an enimy nation to carry on its political agenda of acquiring a territory while the latter are contributing to the economy of one of the most industrially developed state of the country.So targetting them for the former`s misdeeds is a manifestation of gross generalisation and is venting out frustration on the weak.In fact 90% of the muslims in india are the hindu lower caste converts but they are portrayed by the sangh parivar as the descendents of the medieval muslim rulers(opressors,barbars etc.etc.).The fact is that those muslims came from central asiain grasslands and were drastically different from the present indian muslims in the matter of culture and race.It is just like the situation where if the U.S. attacks INDIA, india retaliates by attacking UGANDA or NIGERIA since they are also christians. Regarding pakistan,well the political conflict have been given communal turn and pakistan has become synonimous with muslims and this hatred is then extrapolated to the indian muslims.No doubt, a large chunk of muslim mass in india is still out of mainstream but they need to be roped in by love and not by hate,suspicion and mistrust.(Moreover,how many people in this diverse 1 billion are really in indian mainstream? Infact does there really exist something like indian mainstream or its just a passtime emotional outburst during a kargil "war" or a cricket match with pakistan). There is an emerging section among muslims which is literate,progressive,liberal and as much patriotic as any other citizen of the country.By constant muslim bashing,this section stands the chances of relapsing back or even falling in the hands of fundamentalists(terrorists).The efforts shall be to expand this section by giving the muslims education and employment and thus utilising this potentially vast human resource for the development of the nation.Even the apparently extreme and radical steps would be welcomed in this direction.First would be to implement a uniform civil code and then amending "secular" articles of the constitution like "ARTICLE28"(Freedom of attendence at religious instruction or religious worship in certain educational institutions) This is to abolish all madarsas and the RSS schools like "sarasvati shishu mandirs"". Let the CENTRAL SCHOOLS rule the roost with their CBSE affiliation. Shedding the "us and them" mentality is the need of the hour and the radiculous notion that its "our" nation and "we" are allowing "them" to live here.The choice is between a united,strong and prosperous india AND a coflict ridden,weak,and chaotic india where rightists rule the roost and where someday UN security forces land in the name of maintaining peace and stability and thereby giving the western hawks viz the US to fulfill their interventionist designs. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 590 of 5400 ) globy , your bullshit analysis and ashiss again sucking up to the muslims is pathetic. everyone knows that gujarati muslims are different racially from those killers in kashmir and jammu. so what. the question is are they condemning what is going on in kashmir. the answer is a big NO. not only that, many gujarati muslim organizations contribute to the pakistani jehadis. they are aiding and abetting murder. stop your bullshit crap. the reaction in gujarat should be expected. it is not pretty. nobody wants such retaliation. however, the murder of hindus seems to be OK in india. it is as though killing karsevaks is a legal activity, according to our secular matherchots and the communist press. let me tell you benchots, you fuckers are crazy. very soon there will be a blood bath al over india if you monkeys don't stop your anti-hindu hatred. i hope sensible muslim leaders if there are any will join hands with the hindus and avoid this non-sense that the fanatic muslim leaders and the secular fanatic retarded communist brigade is unleashing on the country. look her asishs you muslim dick sucking matherchot, behave yourself. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 591 of 5400 ) globy, i agree with you on a common civil code. it is the secular matherchots or hindu haters like ashiss that oppose this. not me. read my postings. i oppose all religious education. but the secular benchots oppose this. not me. close all madrasas and hindu/christian/etc. religion oriented schools forthwith. the problem is the communists and the congresswalas will never do this as they do not have the guts to close madrasas. they want muslim votes so they blame the RSS for everything. ban all religion oriented parties and the communist party. they are anti-national. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 592 of 5400 ) globy, go by the facts and the stand that people take. that is a clear indication of their philosophy. being anti-hindu is not secular. being anti-anti-hindu is not communal. i am pro india, not pro-hindu. i will deal as harshly with hindu separatists in madras and assam as i will deal with sikh separatists in punjab and muslim separatists in kashmir. i will have no truck with separatists and terrorists. who is encouraging separatism, is it the RSS or the Congress. it is the congress that gives muslims special status telling them they are different and instilling fear in them. it is the RSS that tells the muslims they are indian and not different. the congress and the muslim league are encouarging separatism. all muslim parties are utterly communal. let us ban all muslim and hindu and sikh religious parties. who is communal here. me or benchots like ashiss. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 593 of 5400 ) ashishs, Your tiny brain should understand that just like there are many people who subscribe to your views, it is just a matter of symmetry that there are many others who have opposing views. Stupid dipshits like you should understand who your enemy is, instead of dismissing them as a figment of everyone's imagination. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 594 of 5400 ) trishool, Welcome, you terrorist-sympathizing scumbag. I aint no muslim, and I have made to secret of my outright hatred for islam's non-secular ideology which is out to destroy anything non muslim. The quotes from the Quran are legitimate, which is why I provided a link to the Quran web site AND the suras and verses. I dont have to be a muslim to understand the bigotry and hatred imprinted in the Quran, you worthless muslim dipshit. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 595 of 5400 ) rishi_s, Manusmriti is despicable, no doubt. But hinduism's primary texts are the Vedas, not manu smriti. I have read the translations of the vedas, and it is nothing more than a lot of philosophical mumbo-jumbo, at the very worst. One difference between the vedas and the Quran: the former does no make any claims of ultimate superiority, and the latter does. Furthermore, the Quran openly talks of killing and slaughtering non muslims. I hate bigots of all shades, but I know that the hindu bigots would not exist if it were not for the rising influence and power of muslim bigots in Indian politics. (Every single "muslim leader" such as Bukhari, Shahbuddin, etc. is a bigot) I have provided the suras/verses from the Quran which explicitly preach hate, and I suggest you go look at multiple translations to get the meaning. If you can read the Quran in its native text, all the more power to you. But you WILL see that I am telling the truth. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 596 of 5400 ) People who would like to check out islam's tolerance can go to www.orst.edu/groups/msa/quran Thi s is a muslim site maintained by a muslim. Now check out the following Quranic verses for their "tolerance": (sura:verse) 5:51 -- ....not to make friendship with jews and christians... 2:19 -- "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" 9:5 -- "fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them and wait for them in every stratagem" 9:123 -- "fight them on until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes allah's in its entirety" So much for islamic "peace and tolerance" Why dont you find similar verses in the new testament or the vedas for me, you lying, murderous muslim vermin. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 597 of 5400 ) http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html Here are some more sites with the translation of the Quran. You will find that my quotes are accurate. You will also find that the "translation" provided in "mumbai"'s link is completely fudged to cover up the obscene nature of these verses. Imbeciles who have a problem with what the Quran says should go contact the author or someone close to them. http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/ko ran/browse.html |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 598 of 5400 ) Three more translations: By Shakir http://www.uah.edu/msa/quranShakir.h tml By Mohammed Pickthall http://www.al-sunnah.com/call_to_ islam/quran/pickthall/ or download a translation from http://www.quran-islam.org/183.html My quotes are accurate and the hatred in the Quran is REAL!!! |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 599 of 5400 ) Kara bhai, apna God-given time-on-earth ko waste mat karo. Aap itne saare Qoran padh rahe ho , aap kahin convert to nahin ho rahe ho. Agar aisa hai, to that will be a huge loss to Hinduism and to India. Aap Gita padho aur bhajan karo- aap jaroor moksha prapt karenge. |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 600 of 5400 ) Kara bhai, phir krodhit ho gaye! Aap ko to Gita padhna chahiye, ye Qoran pe kyon waqt barbad kar rahe ho? Aap Himalaya mein jakar tapasya kariye, jaroor Moksha milega. |
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rajeev 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 601 of 5400 ) Dear karapall, Follwing translations are from the same site you mentioned www.orst.edu/groups/msa/quran It is very obvious you are trying to mislead the people here. I just read the translations. Though the language of koran or quran or watever is strong you have to read the whole "sura" in its entirety.Just isolating a verse doesnt make any sense. For example what karapall said, 9:5 -- "fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them and wait for them in every stratagem" What actually koran says(I guess this "sura" is about the Treaty muslims enter with pagans) 9:4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous. 9:5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and pay Zakat, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful. 9:6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the Word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. Most of the verses Karapall had quoted meets the same fate as this one. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 602 of 5400 ) rajeev, So I guess slaughter of the "enemies of islam" is quite acceptable. So tell me, did you support the slaughter of the "enemies of hinduism" in Ahmedabad?? If not, shouldn't you be consistent in your definition of acceptable slaughter? Let me say this again: There is NO CONTEXT in which the slaughter of non muslims will be acceptable to non muslim, no matter what justification the Quran provides. (Of course, muslims clearly see many contexts in which killing of non muslims acceptable). Secondly, it is clear that all these vicious verses in the Quran are aimed at safeguarding islam, and has nothing to do with peace or humanity, and all this claptrap is certainly not secular. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 603 of 5400 ) Rajeev, Why dont you explain how I have "misled" people, when the "context" you provided reinforces my point that islam advocates mindless violence against any pagan who does not completely kowtow to islam's agenda. Verse 9:4 explicitly states that muslims should not kill pagans who kowtow to the islamic agenda. Anyone else can be legitimately slaughtered...now why dont you provide your interpretation of it and lead all of us towards wisdom and light. Surely, you are not THAT stupid that you just quoted these verses to disprove yourself!!!....or maybe you are. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 604 of 5400 ) Finally, here is a word for pseudo-secular imbeciles like rajeev. Let me say this again: There is NO CONTEXT in which the slaughter of non muslims will be acceptable to non muslim, no matter what justification the Quran provides. (Of course, muslims clearly see many contexts in which killing of non muslims acceptable). Secondly, it is clear that all these vicious verses in the Quran are aimed at safeguarding islam, and has nothing to do with peace or humanity, and all this claptrap is certainly not secular. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 605 of 5400 ) rajeev, Brainless dipshits like yourself should ask yourself why you are trying to defend verses that explicitly call for the death of "pagans" (like yourself). Are you such an imbecile that you cannot see that these verses are not in your own interests?? What kind of a cretin are you?? Maybe you should do us all a favor and remove yourself from the human gene pool. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 606 of 5400 ) Rajeev, Why dont we go through each of those verses one by one. 9:4-9:6 will do fine for now. I will wait for your explanation of why muslims must be allowed to kill non muslim pagans. This should be very enlightening. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 607 of 5400 ) Check out the following Quranic verses (sura:verse) from one or more of the Quran translations on the web 5:51 -- ....not to make friendship with jews and christians... 2:19 -- "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" 9:5 -- "fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them and wait for them in every stratagem" 9:123 -- "fight them on until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes allah's in its entirety" So much for islamic "peace and tolerance" Three more translations: By Shakir http://www.uah.edu/msa/quranShakir.h tml By Mohammed Pickthall http://www.al-sunnah.com/call_to_ islam/quran/pickthall/ or download a translation from http://www.quran-islam.org/183.html My quotes are accurate and the hatred in the Quran is REAL!!! |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 608 of 5400 ) Karapall, You will never give up your habit of arguing just for the sake of arguement.You read my full message.Though "manusmriti" is not the quran of hindus the hindu psyche is governed by manusmriti right from the vedic ages since it is the "HINDU LAW BOOK".The dreadly oppression of "shudras" for thousands of years is a living example but you close your eyes to that you moron.This is what led mayawati to abhor"manuwad".On the contrary the vedas are the mother of all philosophies on earth which you call mumbo jumbo.If you can ever take out time from finding faults in quran i suggest you read vedas and upanishads.You will start thinking rational and purge out all this saffron shit out of your brain.Ashish correctly said that u dont deserve to be replied. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 609 of 5400 ) rishi_s, I did read your message in full, you cretin, which is why I jumped on you faulty analogy. Your analogy compared the Quran to manusmirti, and I was correcting your blatant idiocy. I HAVE read the vedas (the translations, since I do not know sanskrit) and I have also read works of the newer breed of western philosophers like wittgenstein and sartre, so stuff your critique on my presumed ignorance where the sun dont shine. Finally, maybe you can explain how I have "saffron shit" on my brain if I think that the vedas consist mostly of philosophical mumbo jumbo.... or maybe you are too stupid to see the inherent contradiction in your message. Jeez, you sure are a duffer of the highest order. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 610 of 5400 ) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/4789/Arti cles/General/hindu_chronology.html rishi_s, here is the chronology, Manu Smriti came WELL AFTER the vedas and the puranas, and even after the Gita. So if we consider the authoritative texts in hinduism, it is the vedas/puranas but it is DEFINITELY not Manu Smriti. Similarly if we go by popularity amongst hindus, Ramayana and Gita would beat Manu Smriti by a huge margin. So, in either case, Manu smriti is irrelevant to today's hindus to a large extent....but the Quran IS the only relevant text as far as muslims are concerned. Did all this get into your thick skull at least now?? |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 611 of 5400 ) Why Quran contains uncharitable comments about other religions - It is probably the youngest compared to the other major religions (Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism). So its founding text has to explain to its followers and others why Islam is better than other religions. A situation that many other religions didnt face. For example - Hinduism developed in India a few thousand years ago independent of Judaism, Christianity etc. So the Vedas or other texts of Hinduism dont contain anything specific about other religions. Islam developed in Arabia in the midst of other religions, hence the harsh comments. Any opinions ? |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 612 of 5400 ) About manusmriti - I am a Hindu. I dont know much about the Manusmriti and I dont care. The same holds for Vedas. I believe most Hindus havent read the above books either. And as a Hindu I'm not going to try to justify or explain any of the nonsense that appears in any of the above books. One interesting observation that I read recently - 'Hinduism is inseparable from the geography of India'. That seems true considering all the sacred mountains, rivers etc. Also there is no one 'book' that is central to Hinduism. To be fair, the Muslims around you cannot be blamed for the above lines that appear in the Koran. Any more than the Hindus around can be blamed for the non-sense that may appear in Manusmriti. Certainly Muslims are not going to read the passages and start killing Jews and Christians! But one difference is that most Muslims believe that the Quran is the word of God and that following the Quran is the way to heaven. That makes it easier for Muslim fanatics to use such passages and incite hatred towards non-Muslims. "Hey, that is what the Quran says - you are supposed to follow that" But, as we have seen last month in Gujarat, it is not just Muslim fanatics who have monopoly on such deeds. |
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indo_g 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 613 of 5400 ) Apastambha Dharma Sutra III, 10-26, says: The tongue of a Shudra, who spoke evil about a BRAHMIN should be cut off. A Shudra who dared to assume a position of equality with the first three castes was to be flogged. If a Shudra overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten tin was to be poured into his ears; if he repeated the Vedas his tongue should be cut and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces. MANU, 167-272 says: Let the king never slay even though a Brahmin may have committed all possible crimes. Also MANU, 167-272 says: If a Shudra arrogantly teaches Brahmins Dharma, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and ears. So much to TOLERANCE and PEACE in Hinduism!!! I am not even talking about Hindutva. |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 614 of 5400 ) About message #613 I'm hearing about the Apasthambha Dharma Sutra for the first time. But that is OK. That may be a Hindu text from a couple of thousand years back. But I dont care. And I'm not going to try to defend it. Folks reading this may want to goto yahoo and search for "Apasthambha Dharma Sutra". I give a few of web sites where you can find the above quote. Obviously the above poster did a cut and paste from one of these sites. One glance and it is quite obvious what agenda they have. For example one is "Ask the Imam service". Another begins - "It amazes us how a band of dung-worshippers have the cheeks to try to wage an attack against Al-Islam" and then goes on about "Pornography in Ramayana", "Sex with cows "(!), "Brahmin dominated Indian media" etc etc. I can go on. But you may want to take a look yourself. http://www.geocities.com/ abdulwahid/hinduism/hinduism_unveiled.html http://www.geocities.com/fnahmed_2000/hind .htm http://www.dalitstan.org/books/awake/a wake2.html http://www.geocities.com/ abdulwahid/hinduism/ Well indo_g, thanks for opening my eyes to the real Hinduism. I'm waiting to convert to Islam. Oh by the way, the links mentioned in the previous posts for the Quran were all real sites (many run by Muslim organizations) containing genuine translations of the whole of the Quran. Just that specific verses were pointed out which obviously you didnt like. |
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indo_g 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 615 of 5400 ) RIG VEDA Translation from, http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda /rv03034.htm Verse 9: He gained possession of the Sun and Horses, Indra obtained the Cow who feedeth many. Treasure of gold he won; he SMOTE the Dasyus, and gave protection to the Aryan colour.(cut and paste from the above site) SMOTE - To inflict a heavy blow on, with or as if with the hand, a tool, or a weapon. Dasyus - Light skinned dravidians who were living in Indus valley civilisation and later day shudras of north india So many verses in Rig Veda talk about Terrorism in Hinduism which are very similar to Terrorism in Islam. BTW I am not trying to defend or offend any religion. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 616 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate Globy,hats off to you again. This is what i have been trying to drive into the thickskulls here.That-DONT GENERALISE!!.Its a destructive tendency.But if one is neutral and unbiased in this country he/she will be branded as anti-hindu or atleast pseudo secular.The saffron brigade is increasingly turning india into "the land of blinds"(H.G. WELLS i guess).To survive here you gotta be blind.The more you participate in blind muslim bashing the more patriotic you are.Some perverts here "blindly" condemn communists but they fail to notice that the communist ruled states are better off and more peaceful.Just look at some of the views of this "andher nagari chaupat raja": (1)The educated and elites are more communal.(ie.the people participating in riotings in the streets were all big industrialists and beaurocrats while the vendors,rickshaw wallas and mill labours were appealing for peace) (2)The communists are more communal.ie. the major riots take place in kerala and west bengal while gujarat is always peaceful. (3)All religious education shall be banned but a "hindutva" government shall be in the centre...lol. (4)Muslims shall condemn the godhra massacre and kashmir killings but hindus shall justify the ahmedabad genocide. (5)The NRI hindus shall continue funding the RSS-VHP thing but the gujarati muslims shall not fund the kashmir terrorists.(BTW,i havnt yet heard of any militant organisation of kashmir recieving any funds from gujarat). (6)manusmriti,THE LAWBOOK,is irrelevant to hindus...lol. (7)Islam preaches violence against the nonbeliever and hinduism preaches violence even against the believer - the shudra.Still islam is more intolerant than hinduism....lol. (8)those who oppose hindu fundamentalism are pseudo secular. GOD SAVE THIS NATION |
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Antrax 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 617 of 5400 ) HINDU/MUSLIM/SIKH/ISAHI APASH ME HAI BHAI BHAI "LADAI LADAI MAAF KARO POLITICIANS KI SHIT SAF KARO" "ANDHER NAGRI CHOPAT RAJA" "HAR SHAQ PE ULLU BETHA HAI TO GULISTAN KA KYA HOGA" OR KUCH ULLU ESH FREE SPEECH ME BHI BETHE HAI " lol |
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Antrax 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 618 of 5400 ) Helow Indo_g abe chutiye pagal ke bacche tu aadmi hai ke payjama sale kuch pata nahin hai to bakvash kyon kar raha hai bhul gaya kya ramayan kishne likhi ush time brahmin or hindu samaj nahin tha kya Or tu be MUMBAI02 abe sale chutiye jab ram or shyam ko hindu dhram ke bare me nahin para to yeh abdul wahid kya dhund raha hai hindu vedo me |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 619 of 5400 ) To "indo_g" Just as muslims cannot be blamed for the BARBARIC verses in the Hadiths and the Koran, similarly you cannot blame hindus today for the intolerance in their scriptures. But dipshits like you are too perverted in their logic that they cannot make this simple distinction! Another interesting point is that indians & hindus are ruled by the constitutional law and the law of their states and cities. They do not go around quoting verses from the "Manu Smriti" (which i personally think has no relevance whatsoever in today's world, apart from literary analysis and reading) and acting accordingly. Now compare the shitheaded people in many of the Islamic countries, e.g. Palestine, for them killing an INFIDEL is A ONE WAY FIRST CLASS TICKET TO HEAVEN where dozens of VIRGINS will be waiting for them! Islamic countries are ruled by barbaric laws that have no place in today's world, and you have the audacity to quote some outdated verse from Manu Smriti which no one gives a shit about just to justify your fucked up logic!! Hindus get their inspiration from the Bhagawad Gita, the Ramayana, the Upanishads which are pure philosophy of life, compare that to the mindless dogmatic robots in the islamic societies, now open your mouth and start vomiting non-sense, beccause no one is going to take you seriously from now on. "indo_g" you are truly an moron! simple as that! |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 620 of 5400 ) indo_g, I am sure the hindus (specifically the brahmins) believe in the Manu and apasthamba shastra a few centuries ago. But morons like you should understand that we are talking about the state of these Faiths TODAY. Hindu-baiting losers like you should accept that hindus TODAY are largely ignorant of any of the shastras or the vedas. Most of them only know the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, and that too probably from the TV series. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 621 of 5400 ) indo_g, I am sure the hindus (specifically the brahmins) believe in the Manu and apasthamba shastra a few centuries ago. But morons like you should understand that we are talking about the state of these Faiths TODAY. Hindu-baiting losers like you should accept that hindus TODAY are largely ignorant of any of the shastras or the vedas. Most of them only know the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, and that too probably from the TV series. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 622 of 5400 ) indo_g, The verse from the veda does not ask hindus to go kill anyone. It just says that some mythological character killed some other mythological character. try again, you stupid cretin. If you want to make a point that vedas recommend killing non hindus, at least point it out correctly, like I did with the Quran. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 623 of 5400 ) ashishs, Ha ha ha!!! You claim that "communists ruled the states better than others"!!! What a bloody joke you are. Why dont you tell me why kerala's phenomenal literacy rate in the 60s is steadily declining and why Kerala and West Bengal, the only two commie states in the country, have the lowest industrial investment and are at the bottom of most development indices, and why muslim terror groups have a firm foothold in Bengal with the overt support of the communists. Most recently, the CM of West Bengal wanted to rein in the saudi-funded terror schools in the indo-bangladesh border, but the move was scuttled by the communist party because they did not want to antagonize the muslim vote bank. Cretins like you should at least verify your claims before you shoot off your mouth. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 624 of 5400 ) All the communist losers should understand that "saudi-funded madrassas teach the Quran literally and thus spread the message of violence against non muslims to impressionable Indians" is NOT A GENERALISATION. Do you communist cretins even know the kind of textbooks that are being used in these schools?? Do you know that students take the Quran literally, word for word?? What makes you think that they will just leave the verses that talk about violence against non muslims. You communists are a clueless, brainless bunch of dipshits. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 625 of 5400 ) Check out the following Quranic verses (sura:verse) from one or more of the Quran translations on the web 5:51 -- ....not to make friendship with jews and christians... 2:19 -- "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" 9:5 -- "fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them and wait for them in every stratagem" 9:123 -- "fight them on until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes allah's in its entirety" So much for islamic "peace and tolerance" Three more translations: By Shakir http://www.uah.edu/msa/quranShakir.h tml By Mohammed Pickthall http://www.al-sunnah.com/call_to_ islam/quran/pickthall/ or download a translation from http://www.quran-islam.org/183.html |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 626 of 5400 ) I just went through few of the posts and one of the line of discussion was that which religion is more intolerant hindu or muslim. Well just a few point here. 1. Hindu as it is understood today is the interpretation of modern day western scholars and as we follow their education system, we have become accustomed to the above views. But is the hindu really so narrow in definition. You guys must read what Supreme court said about Hindutva to understand what hindutva means in today's reality. It is one of the best piece of illustartion of the word hindutva. Well since hindu is 5000 yrs old( according to western scholars ), the term has gone under many interpretaion and reinterpretation, reflecting and assimilating the realities of that period. But still hindu as it is today has survived with its basic concept intact because timelessness of those concept, notwithstanding the many discrepancies, which has creeped in. Hindu is the only concept(religion per se is too confining )where the method of salvation is not defined and every individual is free to interpret and find his own way. The detractors may point out the offensive verses in vedas and manusmriti but the fact is that it is only one of the interpretation of many such interpretation. Even the much maligned caste system were basically an answer to the problems posed by the structure of the society of that period. If that system is today hindering the growth of society than it must be reinterpreted and it is our responsibilty to find an alternative structure. This would be very much within the tradition of the Hindu. We have to understand that the day hindu stops re-inventing itself would be the day of writing its obituary. Can't let that happen. Can you ?? And that's why VHP and any other proponents of hindu including me must not restrict ourselves to past to get the answers of today but should re-define hindu so that it assimilates identity of today's india. That's is what hindu has been doing for india and that is where its glory lies. |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 627 of 5400 ) Continuing on theme of intolerance of religions, i tried to reason in the previous post that why hindu could not be so. Let's take muslim in this case. First we have to understand that religion is basically a reflection of its society or a group of people. And there is an inherent causal realtionship between them. As one grows the other has to keep pace otherwise both are destined for doom. We can't deny the fact that Muslim was a progressive religion and that was the reason for its growth in medieval times. Islamic scholars of that period continuously tried to invent new meaning of Islam and it was constantly changing keeping with changes in society. But sadly after the industrial revolution in west , the islam lost its relevance and the grip of religion and society was handed over solely to the Mullahs alone. And these mullahs sensing a threat from west tried to close its door to save its own house. This was a very instinctive reaction at that moment but since than islam stopped evolving and rot started. As this was a religion which was borne out of rebellion ( that is the reason for its offensive verses ) and remained in a complete state of flux due to massive growth, the isalmic scholars had no time and oppurtunity to settle and moderate the meaning of these verses. Sadly these teachings became means of survival for mullahs and since than became predominant theme for islam. Once that happened, the mullahs had no incentive to again open the door of islam for further re-interpretation which could mean their lose of eminence. This is why the islam is as it is today. Cruel, unforgiving, blind and deaf to the forces of modernity. Hence it is imperative for modern muslim scholars to redfine and reinterpret the islam and Quran and build enough seeds of ideas which would once again bring islam to its full glory. PS - While reading this analysis, one thing must have crossed your mind that the VHP brand of hindu seems strikingly similar to the medieval mullah brand of Islam. Conclusion : If that's so. Do you want that to happen ??? |
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hick 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 628 of 5400 ) Well said Awanish. Heard a good one lately God was in the process of creating the universe. And he was explaining to his subordinates ........ "Look everything should be in balance". For example, after every 10 deer there should be a lion. Look here my fellow angels; here is the country of the United States. I have blessed them with prosperity and money. But at the same time, I have given them insecurity and tension.... And here is Africa. I have given them beautiful nature. But at the same time, I have given them climatic extremes.... And here is South America. I have given them lots of forests. But at the same time, I have given them lesser land so that they would have to cut off the forests... So you see fellows, everything should be in balance. One of the angels asked... "God, what is this extremely beautiful country here?" God said....... "Ahah...that is the crown piece of all INDIA. My most precious creation. It has understanding and friendly people. Sparkling streams, serene mountains. A culture, which speaks of the great tradition that they live. Technologically brilliant and with a heart of gold....." The angel was quite surprised "But God you said everything should be in balance." God replied - "Look at the free speech message board, I gave them Krapall alias luvvmann alias rachna alias the truth and a big band of Saffron monkeys RSS VHP Bajrang Dal ." |
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awanish 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 629 of 5400 ) With a brief but important detour about religion , let's come back to the matter of today and that is building of Indian Nation. As i have argued in previous posts the brand of secularism as congress and other cronies have preached and practiced has done little good for india and has further fragmented the polity as it is basically divisive in nature. But before thinking what can be done let's understand where we stand today. India as it stands today is a nation state (a western concept) and furthermore we are democracy. Now since these concepts have been proved to be effective and useful in current times (like monarchy was in past), there is no imperative need for us to change that and any solution has to effectively project these concepts. But the question is whether we should also bilndly emulate the functioning of it from west. The answer is an emphatic NO. The reason is that since democracy is "rule by people" and since our people , our ethos and values are different, thus our solutions also needs to be different. These solutions needs to solve our problem. This is why Nationalism and not secularism and parochialism needs to be the guiding principle of our india, our democracy. This should be the singular consiousness which should energise the entire nation of india. This should be the singular principle on which all decision should be taken. This is why I hate congress, as at every single oppurtunity, it has fragmented and divided India. Let me list out the few stunning example, 1.Creation of state on linguistic considerations ( the singular reason why a tamil's first allegiance is to Tamilnadu and Bengali's to Bengal. India is only their second reason d'etre ). Resource equity and geographical consderations were more just and valued criteria. 2.The different laws for diferent religions ( Essentailly accepting that we are not the same. And we talk about secularism , huh. ) 3. Reservation for SC/ST ( the reason for today's cast fragmentation. And we talk about equality. ). Instead should not education and oppurtunity should be the fundamental right of each one of us making sure that all indians grow and grow together. There are many but the listed ones are the cancers of today and we need to get rid of them. Tailpiece - Can hindutva further the cause of this india. Yes it can. Let me give you a simple example. We deride the caste system in its present state but is the concept really bad. Well if Brahmin is someone, who is knowledgeable and one who spreads knowledge, as it was during the inception of caste system ,should not we confer the "Brahman" to Abdul Kalam Azad. Similarly should not we confer "Kshatriya" to Zaheer khan , who fights for nations honour and dignity. This is how we could fight the caste system of today and given the caste system and hindutva a new meaning. A meaning which is not confining, divisive but one which is atomic, organic,progressive. I hope , i can give that INDIA to my children. Jai Hind. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 630 of 5400 ) awanish, Your analysis was of islam was correct. But the current violent fringe of hinduism is a legitimate reaction arising from the need of the hindu community to protect itself, especially when the muslim fundamentalists are given a free tocket to commit violence by all the "secular" parties. If violent islamic fundamentalism in India vanishes, the VHP will lose their support base and will become irrelevant in no time. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 631 of 5400 ) hick, the last time I heard that joke, communists were in the punchline. Try to be original for a change, if that is possible. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 632 of 5400 ) TO ALL GANDHI LOVERS: I don't hate person gandhi but his hypocrisy. If you think, bristish or west respect him, you are dead wrong. They use gandhi's name to remind India that India has no right to use voilence. Let me give you few example of how noble he was- 1. He was not a member of congress but ruled congress with iron fist. Most the the puppet congress president were nominated by him. When Subhash Chandra Bose arrived on the scene and won election against Mahatma's candidate, he was pushed and forced to resign by Gandhi and Nehru. 2. Do you know, out of 15 Pradesh Congress Committees in 1946/47, 13 supported Sardar patel as Prime Minister and 2 wanted Kriplani to be PM but guess who won the race..Mahatma's boy Nehru. Patel was forced to back off by Mahatma and his disciple Nehru. 3. Mahatma Condemned Bhagat SIngh, Udham Singh and other revolutionaries for their fight against British. He felt he was the only patriot. 4. After 1947, Mahatma started blckmailing India by going on fast. Now let me tell you few facts- - At the time of Independence, India had 200 crores in reserves. We agreed to give 75 crores to pakistan (please not pak's population and size at that time). 20 crores were paid before pak got its freedom and 55 was to be given after. - In 1947, India owed approx 200 crores to various industrialist and other sources. Pakistan refused to share the burden of loan and we agreed..thanks to Mahatma once again. - Pakistan invaded Kashmir and India went to war. Our Mahatma went on indefinite fast to pay 55 crores to pak at that time (Patel insisted that it should be paid after war is over in kashmir but he was sidelined)..He blackmailed the while nation because he knew people genuinely loved his mahatmagiri. He started considering himself above nation. 4. I agree Mahatma was a great PERSON but he screwed up India big time. I agree that the only way to stop Gandhi was to kill him. He had plans to settle in pakistan permanently forgetting the sacrifice on millions who died because of partition. He just wanted to be great..full of Natak Nautanki.... The real people (patel - who united India) and Subhash Chandra Bose were sidelined and all thanks to great Mahatma... I don't know whether you know about Udham Singh or not. I don't think South Indians have ever heard of Udham Singh.. Anyway let me tell you an incident- When Udham Singh was caught (after killing Criminal of Jalianwala Bagh) in london, he was put in Jail. He was member of Gadar party. Many of the gadarites came to see him and he asked what was the reaction in India? They said 'People are proud of what you have done. You have taken revenge of Jalianwala Bagh'..Udham Singh asked 'What is Country's loved Bapu Saying?' and the reply came 'Bapu says that an act of madman should not spoil relation between Empire and India'.. These are the words used by BAPU for a person who dedicated his life to avenge humiliation of Jalianwala Bagh. If you don't know about Jalianwala Bagh, please read some history.. I hate What GANDHI did, not a man called Gandhi. To call him father of nation is insulting our great ancestors like Krishna, Buddha, Ashoka, Vikramaditya, Sher shah Suri, Akbar, Nanak, Kabeer etc etc etc.. |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 633 of 5400 ) wooooww!! phoenix..what an analysis of the indian struggle for freedom!!..u just missed adding some points..u forgot that GANDHI singlehandedly won freedom for india thru his ingenious tool of satyagrah,without which phoenix would still have been licking the boots of "gora sahabs".it was GANDHI who brought sardar patel to prominence in bardoli satyagrah when the latter was wanting for direction and method.And when the starry eyed boy subhash bose came cropper with his quixotic plans of "attacking" the british india from north east,his immaturity and overzealousness was exposed but still at mahatma`s instance the congress vehemently defended the convicts of the INA in court trials.And btw it was not gandhi who was dictatotial in congress but the congress who stuck to him for direction and support without which it was like an orphan.GANDHI'S assasination had become really neccessary but not for the nation but for gandhi himself who was disgusted by the communal bastards in muslims and hindus.Your "nathuram godse jee maharaj" really gave "mukti" to the mahatma.Your blurred sense of history makes a funny reading and you need to be deprogrammed off the doctored history feeds of the RSS to get anywhere near to the correct knowledge about gandhi and the freedom struggle.Presently your mouth is too small to talk about even the foot of the giant called gandhi.But i will pray to god to help u recover from ur present mental illness which involves delusions and even hellucinations....lol |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 634 of 5400 ) lol....karapall and phoenix are still not tired of pretending to stick to the belief that "manusmriti"(The hindu law book) is irrelevant to hindus.And that: 1)hindus used to read this and vedas some few hundred years ago and that too just with a pinch of salt. 2)They mean that hindu society is the most equitable of all. 3)There exist no people called shudras and that they were mythical and that a mythical god called indra slayed them while hidus do not believe in all this. 4)They mean that shudras never converted to christianity,islam and buddhism to escape the torment and indignities while all the jews,christians and pagans converted to islam for the fear of persecution. 5)There is no discrimination and no concept of purity,shadow pollution etc.in hinduism and a shudra can easily enter not even the home of a brahmin but his kitchen too and share food with him in the same plate. And now he has again come up with the intolerant verses of quran.YOU GUYS ARE REALLY SICK!!You killed a healthy debate converting it into a violent arguement.You are arguing just for the sake of it.This is the threshold at which even the moderates turn to extremism.You have proved beyond doubt that people like you in both the communities are responsible for the never to be healed mistrust,hate and animosity. |
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rishi_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 635 of 5400 ) Karapall...just open your eyes and try to face the reality you moron...you still believe in the bullshit that if a lie repeated ten times will become a truth...u are still not tired of preaching that its the hindus who need to defend themselves from the minorities....you really missed the philosophy of SATYAMEV JAYATE in SSM... |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 636 of 5400 ) reply to #632 < If you think, bristish or west respect him, you are dead wrong. They use gandhi's name to remind India that India has no right to use voilence. > For your info the west does respect him. ANY list of the ten most influential people of the 20th century compiled by ANY sensible person would include Gandhi. To be more specific Time magazine chose Gandhi along with Einstein and Roosevelt as the three most influential people of the century. BTW, it is true that independent India hasn't followed non-violence as a matter of policy. And it probably true that many people have commented on this. But I dont think people keep 'reminding' India that it has no right to use force. "He was not a member of congress but ruled congress with iron fist." Congress was a debating society for upper class lawyers before Gandhi arrived on the scene. All they did was pass resolutions. Gandhi was the one who changed it to a mass movement for independence. "Most the the puppet congress president were nominated by him. When Subhash Chandra Bose arrived on the scene and won election against Mahatma's candidate, he was pushed and forced to resign by Gandhi and Nehru." It is true that Gandhi probably saw in Nehru very early a future leader for India. Infact Nehru was more nationalist and extreme in his views than Patel. For example around 1930 when Congress was discussing how it should pursue the struggle for freedom Patel and Gandhi were ready to settle for dominion status within the commonwealth whereas Nehru and Bose were not ready to compromise on complete independence. You might want to read the following sentence about why Gandhi pushed Nehru over others for Congress leadership - '... The watershed in Nehru's political and economic thinking was his tour of Europe and the Soviet Union during 1926-27. Nehru's real interest in Marxism and his Socialist pattern of thought stem from that tour........Hoping that Nehru would draw India's youth, at that time gravitating toward extreme leftist causes, into the mainstream of the Congress movement, Gandhi shrewdly elevated him to the presidency of the Congress Party over the heads of some of his seniors. The Mahatma also correctly calculated that, with added responsibility, Nehru himself would be inclined to keep to the middle way' |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 637 of 5400 ) reply to #632 < 2. Do you know, out of 15 Pradesh Congress Committees in 1946/47, 13 supported Sardar patel as Prime Minister and 2 wanted Kriplani to be PM but guess who won the race..Mahatma's boy Nehru. Patel was forced to back off by Mahatma and his disciple Nehru.> Again, this is not important. Patel was deputy prime minister and home minister under Nehru. And everyone knows that Patel was almost as powerful as Nehru too. But Patel died in 1950 (at 75 years) and even if he had become PM after independence, Nehru would have taken over pretty soon. But many would have us believe that, only if Gandhi had allowed Patel to be PM the history of independent India would have been different! Patel was 13 years older than Nehru, and Gandhi was smart enough to realize who should be the leader of a newly independent nation - someone in his 70s ? or someone in his late 50s ? <3. Mahatma Condemned Bhagat SIngh, Udham Singh and other revolutionaries for their fight against British. He felt he was the only patriot.> He disapproved of violence in fighting the British. That is very well known. He didnt condemn the revolutinaries for fighting the British. What he condemned was killing British officials/officers thinking that was going to bring freedom. I dont think he ever claimed that he was the only patriot. <4. After 1947, Mahatma started blckmailing India by going on fast. Now let me tell you few facts- - At the time of Independence, India had 200 crores in reserves. We agreed to give 75 crores to pakistan (please not pak's population and size at that time). 20 crores were paid before pak got its freedom and 55 was to be given after. > I dont know all the details of the story. But I've heard that Gandhi pressured the Indian govt to give its dues to Pakistan. Let me try to explain something - The India we know is one which had already fought many wars with Pakistan and with tensions all through the year. Pakistan is our enemy. But the India that Gandhi grew up in fought his whole life for was not the India we know. That India included Pakistan - that was his India. And when that India is divided there was no question of his taking sides. It is like the current India or one of its states being divided the leaders who worked for the whole country or state being asked to take sides and hate the other. |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 638 of 5400 ) reply to #632 <4. I agree Mahatma was a great PERSON but he screwed up India big time. I agree that the only way to stop Gandhi was to kill him. > I believe he was happier dead than alive. Everyone knows that he was a sad man in his final months. And his death also helped in stopping the mad religious killings. "He had plans to settle in pakistan permanently forgetting the sacrifice on millions who died because of partition. " Both Hindus and Muslims died and killed and were displaced (well also Sikhs) during partition. What 'sacrifice' are you talking about ? And as I said before he was not going to take sides. Again India and Pakistan didnt exist when he lived. His India included both. BTW, he didnt want to settle in Pakistan to insult the 'sacrifice of millions who died because of partition'. Again it is pretty well known that his efforts played a major role in stopping Hindu-Muslim violence. He did this in both Delhi and Calcutta. He wanted to settle in Pakistan to save the Hindus there from the Muslim majority. Check out the link below from Stanley Wolpert's book on Gandhi. See the last paragraph of page 9. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/store s/detail/-/books/019513060X/reader/7/002-8477338-6 715246#reader-link "The real people (patel - who united India) and Subhash Chandra Bose were sidelined and all thanks to great Mahatma..." How was Patel sidelined. He lived on to unite all the princely states after Gandhi died. I dont think you can blame Gandhi for that! Yes, Bose disagreed with Gandhi, left the Congress and started making his plans. He allied with Germany and Japan and invaded India with the help of Japanese army. I wonder what would have happened if he succeeded. British replaced by Japanese ? And then what ? Do they leave when Bose asks them to pack their bags ? < I don't know whether you know about Udham Singh or not. > The person Udham Singh killed (O'Dwyer) was the governer of Punjab in 1919, not the general (Dyer) who ordered the firing at Jalianwallah Bagh. So he is not really the 'Criminal of Jallian wallah Bagh'. And Udham Singh carried out the shooting in 1940, more than 20 years after the event. It sure qualifies as 'revenge', but I'm not sure how it helped in the independence movement. |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 639 of 5400 ) rishi_s says - "Look the "fact" is that the number of people killed in the riots of 1992 and 2002 is much more than those killed by LTTE and hamas combine in their existential history." in 'Is saffron state a terrorist state?' I'm not sure that you are right here. The number of people who died in the riots in 1992 and 2002 are probably 2000 at the maximum. LTTE and Hamas have been fighting for decades. I believe the number of people they have killed is more. BTW, RSS cannot be blamed for all the killings during riots in India. A million Hindus and Muslims killed each other during partition. I dont think RSS had anything to do with that. And our own Congress-wallahs killed 3000 innocent Sikhs in Delhi in 1984. Does it mean Congress is worse than LTTE and Hamas ? (going by your logic above). I think a lot of killings in riots is just 'ordinary' people killing each other out of madness. Furthermore everything cannot be reduced to the number of people killed. America killed 50,000 people in Hiroshima on one day during WWII. That doesn't mean that they are worse than Osama bin Laden who killed 'only' 3000 people in New York. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 640 of 5400 ) rishi_s, The question is not whether hindus obeyed manu shastra HUNDREDS of years ago. The question is whether hindus follow or are even aware of the Manu Shastra NOW. I will repeat this point till it sinks in your thick skull. IN contrast, islamic madrassas believe all the hatred in the Quran NOW!!! (If they believed in it a hundred years ago, but not now, then my point would be irrelevant, as yours is with respect to hindus today) TALK ABOUT NOW, you brainless dipshit, and try to maintain some focus. Manu smriti is irrelevant in India today, and anyone who says otherwise can be thrown in the slammer. |
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prem_d 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 641 of 5400 ) Been reading the messages out here for a while and everyone has just skewed away from the actual issue. The "secular" people out here are going on ranting about Gandhi and his greatness, satyagraha..etc..etc.. The "Saffron brigade" just keeps repeating that Muslims are bad. Well, have any ONE of you given a thought that beneath that religion and that caste, there is a little child screaming in pain because it had 75% burns on its body, or there is a man just like you and me fighting for his life. Shame on you if you cant see that! Instead of talking trash about each section of society, ask yourselves, "what did I do to stop this carnage?" Yes, Karapall, the pseudo-secularists have hijacked the Muslim cause and pampered them. And yes, PMishra, the Hindu retaliation was horrible, in loss of another word. But you guys just keep bitching about it and quoting stuff from the past, while another Indian becomes a casualty for some stupid sick game the politicians play. And if you are that blind to see that this is not going to help you in any way, then I guess we need to seriously rethink our ethics and values. Whatever happened to the two shilas? Whatever happened to all the Muslims who did their Namaaz at the Masjid? The shilas are just lying in some forsaken Govt office and the Muslims have started offering Namaaz elsewhere. For this, 2000+ people died, 1000s raped and millions in damage. Who is going to pay for all this at the end? Not your saffron clad International President or your so-called secular congress MLA or MP. YOU are the one..quit fighting and start thinking as to WHAT CAN BE DONE to stop this kind of rioting! |
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prem_d 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 642 of 5400 ) On anthter note, I live in USA, out in the Midwest, where there is considerable ignorance of the Indian/Asian culture. All they have known was the Middle East and the forms of fundamentalism that some of them practice. And till the other day, when asked what the difference was between other countries and our India, I was proud to say that inspite of 800 million Hindus and 200 million Muslims and christians and others, we have never had to fight a civil war between ourselves and that we represented an unity among the diverse cultures that we represented. I boasted that I had more Hindu and Muslim friends than Christian friends, not because of my religious identity but because thats the way we were, not caring if you were a Rambakth, a Sufi Muslim or a Protestant, the Indianess came first!!The most explaining I had to do was about the Staines murders!! But I guess now all those tall claims about India being so forgiving and so democratized, so independent and free, all that just flew right into the trash can!! I am not ashamed of my country but I sure dont want other people thinking bad about it too. The general feeling here is that India has joined the fundamentalist bandwagon. And this from the people here whoz views you cant change without a convincing debate or a careful analysis. Well, just wanted to let you guys know that its ironic that we criticize America for each and every little thing they do, but when it comes to us, we become self-righteous pompus blind people! I know the people who write in these message boards are well-eduacated and that they all know the value of LIFE more than the value of religion. This message board can become a think-tank for putting ideas together and solving this problem rather than just letting accusations fly! Be Proud, because YOU and I are INDIAN! (not Hindu, Muslim, Christian..that can come in your personal life!) |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 643 of 5400 ) prem_d, Firstly, you are a nitwit if you get brow-beaten so easily by the boody whites. All you need to ask them in return is about the murder of the sikh after 9/11 in houston. They will tell you that the criminal was prosecuted, just like the culprits in the Staines murder case. The christian fundie assholes in the midwest are known for their overt christian communalism, and YOU are the moron to let them browbeat you. Okay, enough of that. Look, pal, it is all easy to say that we are Indians first and Now, this is all natural human behavior, I suppose. But I have also seen overt anti-national and communal behavior in muslim communities, especially poorer muslim localities. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 644 of 5400 ) prem, Pampering of muslims is not acceptable, especially given the increasingly violent muslim culture in India, thanks to saudi madrassas. This is being taken care of in the US, but not in India. THAT, my friend, is the crux of the problem. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 645 of 5400 ) Secondly, I had nothing to do with Gujarat, and I have never set foot in the place, so it would be stupid and RIDICULOUS for me to ask myself "how could I have stopped this carnage"? Pay attention to the players who are causing the mischief instead of ranting on endlessly about how each of us is responsible for Gujarat. WE ARE NOT!! |
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kperiyar 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 646 of 5400 ) karapall u madarchod,i am an SC!!Ask me about the discriminations and intolerance in hinduism.U suar ki aulad!!u casteist!!u are trying to veil the atrocities which u caste hindus have inflicted over us from centuries.Ask me how it feels when: 1)ur classmates dont share their lunchbox with u in school. 2)u r beaten up badly just b`coz u dared to talk to a caste hindu girl in the college campus. 3)the mom of ur caste hindu friend starts cleansing the drawing room even before u r out of the main gate. 4)u come to know that ur great grand mother was a devdasi who served as a sex slave to the caste hindus. 5)u hear that the women from the labour class of your community are frequently raped by builders,contractors etc.and when she goes to the police station to complain the policemen rape her too...to be contd.. |
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kperiyar 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 647 of 5400 ) 6)your father`s caste hindu colleagues never allow their children to mix with u and u r always looked down upon. 7)u hear that ur relatives who are living out there in villages are not allowed to take water from the common village well nor are they allowed to enter the temples.While passing through the thakur`s haveli they have to take out their shoes and do a big prostrating namaskar. U mother fucker!! u have the cheek to deal with the intolerance of other religions after having practiced the worst form of discrimination ,intolerance and barbarism possible in this world.Its better to kill someone then to relegate him to a second class human. I would have been better off if my ancestors had converted to christianity or islam.These religions atleast dont trouble its own followers but u bastards torment the followers of ur own religion u madarchods. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 648 of 5400 ) periyar, Dumb shits like you should realize that I am probably an SC too, since my ancestors converted to christianity a while ago. In any case, I treat people as they treat me, and I dont see what their caste or religion is. If I did anything else and changed my behavior based on their background, I would be no better than the very bastards I hate. |
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anand_n 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 649 of 5400 ) Ask me about Gandalf,the Moron This discussion was all about rioting. God knows where the caste came from.Karapall,Kudos to your attitude. Mr Periyar,first of all,using profanity will not help your cause.You listed out a million reasons to be pissed.Let me ask you a couple of questions.Before I pen any further,I am an upper class hindu.Talking about discrimination.If you feel so strongly about it then why dont you guys make an effort to overcome it.With every election you guys expect your quota to be raised.Let me be clear in stating that reservations are required.Claim reservation but end it with you.Ask the government to brand your children and their families as forward class.Will you do that? No,you wanna hang on to your reservations and then keep harping about the atrocities commited upon you.If you have access to a computer today it means that you have come from atleast a lower middle class family. Dude,what about a poor forward class guy? How is that he is deemed to be condemned and you are a martyr. I live in US and witness the differences between white's and colored people.Its stamped on a colored person face that he represents those who were oppressed.Inspite of all this,these people progress.Its because they dont fuel sentiments.In India,we all look pretty much the same.We can overcome this problem with much more ease.People like Mayawati and Kansiram are laughing their way to the bank and riding on sentiments of people like you.Nobody can help you till you dont change your attitude.Dont make your individual problems an excuse to blame some other section of hindu's.I have suffered because of reservation policy but I never complained.I moved to another place,completed my education and came to US to continue my pursuit for a better life. By the way,I dont know which part of the world has all the problems that you have listed.I can bet a million that its not India.Yes,India has problems but let me brutally frank in saying that you are exaggerating.I accept that we upper caste hindus have mistreated you and still there are some pocktes that are having this problem but your list is bigger than Dr B.R Ambedkar's suffering. (I respect that man for having written a balanced constitution) Hunger and hurt knows no caste.It pains a brahmin as equally as an SC or BC.Before,I sign off, my very special friend is a BC.I have known him too long to recollect from when and to this day,our friendship stands strong and is very very special to me. Mulk, awam se banti hai dost,gade murde ukhaad se nahin. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 650 of 5400 ) anand_n, The discussion seems to have meandered into casteism because this bonehead periyar made the following assumptions (1) I am a forward caste hindu (2) hindu is the same a brahmin (3) he is still a "scheduled caste", even though he and his father have both made inroads into middle-class India (by his own admission). People like periyar would, as you say, like to eternally harp on the fact that they were wronged historically to continue to get freebies from the government for all their descendants. These same people would like to tell us that THEY represent the interests of the scheduled class, when in fact they are working VERY HARD to make sure that the "SC" person who cannot have a full meal a day is being displaced from a college education or other oppurtunities BECAUSE of MIDDLE CLASS "SC" people like periyar and galaxy. Let's face it: the only people screwing the REAL oppressed people are the FAKE oppressed people like periyar. |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 651 of 5400 ) Kara bhai, I don't care what your religion is. I just love listening to your expositions on the grand issues of our time. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 652 of 5400 ) Mr. Periyar, wherever there are 2 human beings living side by side, the stronger will always exploit the weaker one. That does not mean I am supporting the caste system of India as it stands now. I am just pointing to you the stark facts. In India caste was based on occupation and not birth. In order to be called a brahmin you should have certain qualities and it was the same for all other caste. Over thousands of years it had degenerated to its worst. Slowly but surely after the renaissance of hinduism in the 19th century, the process of returning to the original idea has begun. Hopefully we could return to the day when quality determines your caste and not birth. The best professors and scientist will be brahmins, the army personnel our Kshatriyas and so on. Also to clear some misconceptions you have that Islam does not discriminate among fellow muslims. Apparantely you dont follow things that happen across the border. Sunnis in Pakistan consider themselves to be true followers and consider Shias, Ahmediyas and Muhajirs as non-muslims. Also Punjabi Muslims consider muslims of all other provinces to be second class citizens. You can check out the sindhi freedom movement at www.saveindus.org and discrimination is not only India and Pakistan, its everywhere in the world. Mr. Periyar as long as there are humans, discrimination shall prevail as you cannot expect a world full of saints. But it is our responsibility to try our best to bring heaven on earth by raising the standards of all humans and minimising discrimination. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 653 of 5400 ) Brahmos, Unless you are saying that a person's acts and deeds are more important than where they come from, I disagree with your statement about scientsts being brahmins, and so on. People can be many things at one time: people can be musicians, scientists, and excel in martial arts simultaneously. Casteism has no basis in humanity, now or ever. As someone else mentioned, we are Indians first; everything else is secondary. Unfortunately, it is easier said than done in today's India. |
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Brahmos 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 654 of 5400 ) Thats what I meant Karapall, one's action and deeds are important not his origin. Also one more thing, humans shall always try to categorise themselves. If not the caste system then it will be the class system. I believe our ancestors had experimented with all types of society structures before choosing the caste system. Today's caste sytem is totally abhorable. But the way it was back then, it was better then todays class system in the sense that it valued inherent human qualities and respected the person on the quality he possessed irrespective of the money he had or the origin of his birth, while class system values a person on a money level which ultimately sidelines the quality of the human and just focusses on the amount of money he has. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 655 of 5400 ) Brahmos, TRue about the inevitability of class. In all countries, there is now a class system based on money. I believe that this is the natural order of things. People like to differentiate themselves using one criterion or another; if it is not class, then it is caste, or it is race, or religion, or whatever. Even the most "liberal" christians find something to feel superior about, regardless of how ridiculous or stupid it is. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 656 of 5400 ) http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=50038< br> Quote: "Submitting a memorandum to Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee at the helipad here, the president of the relief committee Moulalana Hussein Umarji also demanded that since the theory of a pre-planned attack on S-6 coach of Sabarmati Express was not proved, the 62 people arrested in connection with the carnage should be released and police be restrained from arresting more people." Look at the audacity of this motherfukker Umarji, who wants all the criminals who started the cycle of violence in Gujarat to be released!!! Instead of asking for the marauders of Ahmedabad to be imprisoned, this bastards wants all the evil fukkers who started the whole cycle of violence to be set free. This is the level of "muslim leadership" in India!! |
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kperiyar 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 657 of 5400 ) If u are really a christain karapall,then u are fortunate enuf to get converted.And plllzzz dont poke ur nose here.Its between hindus and muslims.Fuck off from here and get involved in ur proselytizing activities somewhere in the hills of north east or the jungles of central india.U have no business here whatsoever.U just cant talk on something which u havnt experienced.good bye pal. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 658 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate lol...karapall....what about the level of hindu leadership....;) praveen togadiya,vinay katiyar,ashok singhal,giriraj kishore...the perpetrators of thousands of deaths still roaming free brazenly...The benevolent hindu leadership against the evil muslim ledership.....lol |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 659 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate Did any of the VHP-BJ leaders appealed for the arrests of the rioters in ahmedabad???The much revered(among fanatics) RSS arranged a "shauk sabha" for the victims of godhra but not for the victims of ahemadabad just bcoz the latter were muslims.They discriminate people on the basis of religion!!And then this bloody organisation pretends to have a high ideology,patriotism.. bla bla...these people have really trivialised hinduism.And karapall,if u aint a hindu then just dont speak in between.U better pack ur bags and go to rome to kiss the ass of pope. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 660 of 5400 ) ashishs, stupid shits like you should note that none of the names that you mentioned have been directly involved in the Ahmedabad Killings, in fact, Togadia was still wanking off in Ayodhya at that time, Katiyar was in Kashmir, etc. Pay attention to what I said, i.e., people who went and killed other people, and there were a few local politicians, both congress and BJP, who have been directly indicted, not to mention scores of others who got away with murder. Now, these bastards should be thrown in, not some hapless turd whose views you disagree with. Jeez, you sure are on heck of a dumb fuck. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 661 of 5400 ) ashishs, I have as much of a right to speak about these issues as anyone else, asshole. Clearly, you are too stupid to make a coherent argument or a point of view that has not been spoonfed to you. That does not mean that I am going to allow worthless cretins like you to spew your brainless tripe. So tell me, you stupid bastards (ashishs and periyar), are christians not supposed to have views on Indian politics?? How secular!!! Thanks for exposing your "secularism" in public, you stupid shits. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 662 of 5400 ) kperiyar, That is a fine convincing argument. I guess my analysis of a you being a brainless cretin who has advanced so far in life because of government handouts hit a little too close to home, eh?? Well, well, well. Why dont you go back to whining about how you, personally, have been oppressed as an "SC". Dont forget to check your stock portfolio on the internet while you are at it. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 663 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate What a paradox!! the most antinational of all organisations -RSS-calls itself patriotic and is able to convince about this to an emerging section of neo literate,wannabe intellectuals like karapall Everyone would agree that the minimum required to be a good citizen (let alone patriotism),is to fulfill the "fundamental duties"(atricle 51-A)of the constitution.Some of them are: (c)to uphold and protect the sovereignty,unity and integrity of india. (e)to promote harmony and the spirit of common brotherhood amongst all the people of india transcending religious,linguistic and regional or sectional diversities. (f)to value and preserve the rich heritage of our composite culture. (h)to develop the scientific temper,humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform. (i)to safeguard public property and to abjure violence. So if you do not do efforts to fulfill these duties you are not a good citizen but if you work exactly opposite to these arent you antinational?? |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 664 of 5400 ) post #658 "praveen togadiya,vinay katiyar,ashok singhal,giriraj kishore...the perpetrators of thousands of deaths still roaming free brazenly..." After Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards in 1984 Congress men went on a rampage in Delhi killing thousands of Sikhs. Rajiv Gandhi had the following to say - "When a mighty tree falls, the earth shakes." I dont see how the above statement is any different from Modi's statement that the Ahmedabad violence was a 'reaction' to the Godhra killings. "After the slaughter, various inquiry commissions picked out senior Congress politicians like H K L Bhagat and Sajjan Kumar for their roles in the killing: the commissions found that these men instigated and directed looting, murdering mobs." "Whether under Rajiv, Rao, Kesri or Sonia, the Congress itself has shown no inclination to punish them. Not even to the laughable extent of ostracising them from the party." See the following link for more on this. It is an article by Dilip D'Souza in rediff from 1998. http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/nov/1 9dilip.htm One wonders whether Congress has any 'moral authority' to criticize Modi. More specifically about the post #658 that I mentioned above, one may not agree with the ideas and beliefs of the RSS/VHP guys mentioned. But I dont believe that makes them 'perpetrators of thousands of deaths'. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 665 of 5400 ) For the fellow who claimed that "maintaining the scientific temper" was an essential part of being a citizen....in that case close to 100% of India would have to be disqualified from citizenship. Article 51(A) sounds like it was written when the author was high on drugs. America has only one requirement to be a citizen: allegiance to the state. Maintaining religious harmony and most of the other points in article 51(A) are the responsibility of the state, not the requirement of a citizen. No wonder Indians are confused about being a citizen of India. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 666 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate JESUS!! .....now karapall wants everyone to believe that "fundamental duties" of a "citizen" are not meant for the citizen but the state. (he wants to turn the whole constitution inside out,he probabaly means that the "directive principles" are for the citizen) Hey! everyone out here plz tell me does this guy deserves to be responded??Infact even if "these duties" were meant for state that doesnt mean good citizens like RSS guys shall go on violating these just b`coz the state is there(which actually isnt) to make it allright. Karapall,u exude moronity in every word u speak pal!! |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 667 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate and mumbai02 U moron!! this is not an arguement going on between congress wallas and BJP wallahs.If the former bastards did some wrong it doesnt mean that the latter shall score a point over them by doing a greater wrong and then jutify it from the past.We want progress not regression u idiot.But people like u will make sure that it doesnt happen. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 668 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate and karapall,about the scientific temper thing U believe that 100% of the indian population are a bunch of gullible morons and so these "green pastures" lure u to spread ur hatred and animosity among communities.But no pal!! we people atleast have common sense if not a great "scientific temper " like u.U gotta look out for some other place for ur malicious agenda. |
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ravis 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 669 of 5400 ) we hindus are blamed for everything .. minorities should be like minorities they dont represent the ideas of vast majority of the people every party wants muslim votes godhra was brutal killing innocent people is horible iicertainly agree with the acts performed later |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 670 of 5400 ) the forum's jackass exclaims: "now karapall wants everyone to believe that "fundamental duties" of a "citizen" are not meant for the citizen but the state. " Okay, I guess I have to spell it out to you very slowly...please watch my lips move and pay attention. Firstly, a citizen's duties to the state must be precise. For example, stating that a fundamental duty of a citizen is to "smell very good" is too vague to be useful, because it is a matter of opinion (some people might prefer to smell like vanilla, which might be considered offensive to others). If the state passes diktats on matters of individual choice and opinion, then we are on a slippery slope, which is why western democracies have a very narrow definition of a citizen's duties towards the state. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 671 of 5400 ) Now, let me address the parts of 51(A), which are clearly too vague to be useful. parts (c) concerns upholding sovereignity of India, and is therefore precise in intent. The remaining points are just ridiculously vague or otherwise undefinable. "point (e)to promote harmony and the spirit of common brotherhood amongst all the people of india transcending religious,linguistic and regional or sectional diversities. " Firstly, what the hell is "spirit of common brotherhood"?? What if community X just hates the guts of community Y?? Are you telling me that the government should legislate the behavior of these people?? What the govt. CAN DO is throw the members of community X or Y who step over the line and commit a crime or break a law. Till then, community X has every right to dislike community Y, citizen's duties be damned. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 672 of 5400 ) "point (f)to value and preserve the rich heritage of our composite culture." This is atrociously vague!!! Who defines "rich heritage". Clearly, if we go by your views, it cannot be the brahmins or hindus. Then whose heritage are we to consider given the inherent diversity of the country. Again, these things cannot be forced on citizens. Secondly, what the hell is "composite culture"...does manu shastra form part of this "composite culture"?? If not who decides what is acceptable culture and what is not?? Again, we have Indian laws that decide what is acceptable and what is not OUTSIDE the realm of culture. Outside the law, anyone is free to wear nipple rings or nose rings or whatever each individual considers as culture. What if you are an uncultured lout who listens to madonna and japanese music, but have enlisted in the army?? Are you no longer a good citizen?? |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 673 of 5400 ) "point (h)to develop the scientific temper,humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform. " Again, scientific temper cannot be legislated. In fact, a majority of the world's population has no clue about the fundamental tenets of science. It is the DUTY of the GOVERNMENT to provide enough education to inculcate a scientific temper amongst people. As we have it today, the prime minister of the country consults an astrologer before important eventsDoes that mean he is not a good citizen?? As for the "spirit of inquiry", you either have it or you dont. Making it the responsibility of the citizen is just plain ridiculous. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 674 of 5400 ) point (i)to safeguard public property and to abjure violence. Again, this seems to try to legislate thieves murderers and malcontents out of existence. The state exists in order to penalize anyone who does not do either of the above. So this is a matter of law enforcement, but on the whole this is relatively precise (relative being the key word here, since the remaining points are just a joke). As I said whoever wrote all this must have had way to much to drink or must have been a complete bonehead. The people who wrote the constitutions and framed laws in the west understood that BEING PRECISE is essential, if one needs society to function smoothly. But what do we have here?? A general diktat to "uphold our rich heritage". What a bloody joke. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 675 of 5400 ) ashishs, "If the former bastards did some wrong it doesnt mean that the latter shall score a point over them by doing a greater wrong and then jutify it from the past." Not so fast, pal. You have clearly stated many times that India is going to hell in a handbasket just because of the BJP. As mumbai02 rightly pointed out, every party has committed the same crime, which implies that there is a fundamental problem in Indian politics that is not party-specific. So your boneheaded rant that people like mumbai02 are going to cause "regression" of society is laughable. In fact, YOU are equally culpable given that you seem to have a short memory for facts and events that you claimed multiple times that the sanghis and BJP are TOTALLY to blame for all of India's problems. A realistic view of Indian politics makes it clear that communalism is alive and well within minority groups and is starting to develop in the hindu majority. While it might be convenient for communist boneheads and cretins like you dismiss hindu communalism as a negligible small movement, the reality is that minority communalism directly results in hardening positions in the majority. It is just a matter of time before non compromising attitudes in the majority make life hell for the minorities. As it is, muslims in Bombay are being kept out of the housing market by people who see them as troublemakers. A stereotype, surely, but all this is a direct result of rising animosity between hindus and muslims. |
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mumbai02 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 676 of 5400 ) It is true that past unpunished crimes cannot be used as an excuse to let criminals go scot-free. But it seems to me that the demonizing of Narendra Modi is out of proportion to what he has done (especially in the context of Indian politics and considering what Congress did in 1984 in Delhi). |
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joy 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 677 of 5400 ) Kara bhai, your masterful expositions on the issues of our time should now be compiled in an anthology. My humble opinion is that when Nehru talked about "scientific temper" he did not mean making everybody aware about the growing body of scientific knowledge . As far as scientific temper goes Modiji has shown that it is alive and well - now our politicians are using NEWTONS THIRD LAW in their governance! |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 678 of 5400 ) Not bad, joy. Finally a joke that is actually funny. |
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eshwar_s 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 679 of 5400 ) This is in response to message # 632. If there was one man who should be given a lesson in History it is the author of message #632. He not only changed history to his liking but also curely insulted every Indian by calling Gandhiji a pseudo-patriot. I am sure he is Godse's philosopher and an RSS patriot. I can only tell him to read history and not make his own. As an Indian I am ashamed we have such idots. I am only happy he is not a history professor. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 680 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate JESUS!! the perverted fanatic again surfaces with his fucked up logics!!Karapall,u got an uncanny knack for making simple things complicated."To promote harmony and the spirit of brotherhood" doesnt mean distributing pamphlets for the same.It just needs on ur part to judge and treat people on the basis of their personal qualities and not on the basis of religion,caste etc.Tell me what is vague in this??and Y this simple thing doesn`t enter ur brain? WHY? An individual makes the society and ultimately the nation.For a nation to exist and progress,dont you think that a citizen shall take care of these "very smple" and "very easy to follow"duties.And plz dont give those absurd examples:"a citizen shall smell good"...lol.Even a tribal republic of interior central africa would not be stupid enuf to make such fundamental duties unless the government contains boneheads like you. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 681 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate And karapall!!i repeat it for the last time for u that not following fundamental duties is not a punishable offence but a trait of a "not good citizen".This applies to every "ordinary" citizen and i believe the reason behind india`s problems is that 80% of it`s polulation is not "good citizen".But the people(sanghees)who claim to be patriotic and nationalists are bound to follow it so as to create an example before the citizens.YOUR concept of "nation" involves an unruly population who shall not be troubled by the government in their noble motive of creating chaos.The government shall always be engaged in controlling the behaviour of people and not waste time in thinking of socioeconomic development and progress.HAVE SOME LIFE U WIERD!! HAVE SOME LIFE!! |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 682 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate karapall, regarding ur fantastic theory of "nature of politics" behind the communal problems.Well it shows u too can think a bit.But going more deeper u will find the reason for this "nature of politics".Its nothing but gross underdevelopment,poverty,illiteracy,excessive population etc. 16% of the world`s population lives in 2.5% of the world`s total suface area in india.The bulk of the population which is left behind in the process of development feels relatively deprived.This segment in turn doesnt let the elite live peacefully and to have their own way. Thus there is a general resentment and frustration in all the sections. People need to vent this out.This leads to the formations of "ingroups" and "otgroups" of which the weaker (numerically,economically or socially) becomes the target of vent out anger. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 683 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate Karapall, Right now the outgroup is the muslims and the ingroup the hindus.The latter being meticulously formed after long drawn efforts of the sangh parivar.Believe me,there wont be even a miniscular difference in india`s condition by flushing out the muslims.The conflict will remain as intense as now.Only the boundaries of ingroups and outgroups will be rearranged.On the major level there will be conflict between SAVARNS and AVARNS.Do i need to remind you mayawati`s slogan-TILAK,TARAZOO AUR TALWAR INKO MARO JUTEY CHAR.This is just the tip of the iceberg.There are deepseated fragments on all lines.There will be conflict between the BRAHMINS and the BANIYAS.And at the topmost level there will be power struggle between the ingroups withinn brahmins-the sanadyas, the kanyakopjas,saryupaaris etc.At the lowermost level the innumerable SCs,STs and OBCs will fight on caste lines.Now you might think that inspite of these conflicts there will be atleast no threat to the security and integrity of the country since ISI cant work in the absence of muslims here.Well pal,in the presence of disparity,resentment and frustration,any section can play in the hands of a foreign organisation.ISI will still find fertile grounds here-among the SC/ST/OBC section,the MCC of east india,the separatists of north east etc.Do you think that the terrorism in punjab would have thrived without the assistance of ISI? |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 684 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate karapall The need of the hour is to build inner strength by bringing about even development and promoting tolerence,plurality and meritocracy.These are the keywords for progress.These are some principles which has turned USA into what it is today.Intolerance and supression were ingrained in the USSR`s model of dovelepment which ultimately proved out to be unsustainable.Population control,literacy and overall social welfare shall be the prime task of the government.Corruption has to be strictly checked so that all the goverment schemes are implemented properly. |
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ashishs 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 685 of 5400 ) Satyamev Jayate and mumbai02 Narendra modi is not demonised but glamourised.Foremost among his fans is "home minister" advani himself.He says"modi did a great job by controlling the curfew in a record 72 hrs."...lol |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 686 of 5400 ) ashishs, the numbskull writes: "i repeat it for the last time for u that not following fundamental duties is not a punishable offence but a trait of a "not good citizen"." I see, and what is the purpose of the govt. defining a "not good citizen"?? No cookies before bedtime?? or what?? Let me repeat the question I posed along with my rebuttal of article 51(A) point (e). So what if an Indian refuses to recognize india's cultural heritage and listen to madonna and prince, but also decides to enlist in the Indian army. (I have a friend who fits this description) Is he a good citizen or a bad citizen?? Or to take another example, consider two citizens, one who swears by manu shastra and another who swears by all the hate in the Quran...clearly, both of them are representative of India's "rich diversity and cultural heritage". Which one is the badder (or gooder) of the two bigots?? Turds like you need to THINK a little before you regurgitate whatever horsedung was fed to you during your red book sessions. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 687 of 5400 ) ashishs lets it rip: "Its nothing but gross underdevelopment,poverty,illiteracy,excessive population etc. 16% of the world`s population lives in 2.5% of the world`s total suface area in india." Why dont you tell me something I dont know. The point that seems to have whizzed past you is that development of these people cannot be achieved while the anti-national turds in the communist party support labor unions and are anti disinvestment and support massive government waste. As was reported in the hindustan times recently, PSUs waste 90,000 crores per year -- this is more than the defence budget and education budget many times over. The worse part is that they fail to provide good water, food distribution and other basic amenities to all the rural Indians. Guess which political party is against making these organizations more efficient and accountable? Yes, the communists. Stupid turds like you need to go one step further and recognize that nehruvian economic policies are responsible for the sorry state of Indian industry. What we need is a free market that is not under the tyrannous control of the govt. is the only way for India to improve. As we all know by now, communism does not work...even avowed commie countries such as china are moving towards a market economy. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 688 of 5400 ) ashishs: "The conflict will remain as intense as now.Only the boundaries of ingroups and outgroups will be rearranged." What you are really saying is that the current govt. overtly supports hindus and that the so-called "secular" parties are essentially anti-hindu. So any redrawing of lines is due to overt communal behavior of political parties -- both "secular" and otherwise -- rather than any real social dynamics. As I see it happening already, when the hindus get pissed off due to the attitudes of the cocksucking communists in the media and turds like yourself, they are going to get more strident and violent, because they nothing to lose from their perspective. This is of course wrong (they have plenty to lose), but we are talking about religious zealots and moderate hindus who can no longer stand the insults heaped on them by the assholes in the media, that they see no problem reacting violently to the "secular" behavior of the pseudo-secular turds in the country. Again, nothing short of a serious effort by all parties to disavow the use of communal politics, whether under the garb of secularism or hinduism, forever. Fat chance of that, I say. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 689 of 5400 ) ashishs the cretin spews: "It just needs on ur part to judge and treat people on the basis of their personal qualities and not on the basis of religion,caste etc.Tell me what is vague in this??and Y this simple thing doesn`t enter ur brain? WHY? An individual makes the society and ultimately the nation" The question is whether the government is your father or mother to give you tips on "good behavior". All that is required of good citizens is ALLEGIANCE TO THE STATE. PERIOD. All the fluffy crap about diversity and heritage is a load of bullshit that has nothing to do with what is expected of a citizen MAINLY BECAUSE it is just a suggestion. The question is: what if most of the citizens in the country do not fit these behvior patterns described in article 51(A). Does that mean that most of the people in the country or phantoms, or does it mean that article 51(A) is a load of irrelevant crap as far as most of the citizens of the country are concerned?? Let me see if you get this multiple choice question right. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 690 of 5400 ) ashishs writes: "America is great because of secular values" this clearly shows that you know NOTHING of american history. America was built on the back of slaves. In fact, the very people who wrote "all men are created equal" in the american consitution OWNED slaves and supported slavery (I am talking about Thomas Jefferson). Furthermore, America came by because of large-scale genocide of millions of native americans over the course of a few centuries. There is a reason why americans never talk about all these negatives publicly and instead choose to accentuate the positives. America has slowly figured out its way out of various crises because american leader united the people and believed in true secularism, unlike the pseudo-secular cocksuckers in India who have always used "secularism" to divide people. The people who started this trend are the assholes in the Congress and the CPI/marxists. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 691 of 5400 ) ashishs writes: "America is great because of secular values" this clearly shows that you know NOTHING of american history. America was built on the back of slaves. In fact, the very people who wrote "all men are created equal" in the american consitution OWNED slaves and supported slavery (I am talking about Thomas Jefferson). Furthermore, America came by because of large-scale genocide of millions of native americans over the course of a few centuries. There is a reason why americans never talk about all these negatives publicly and instead choose to accentuate the positives. America has slowly figured out its way out of various crises because american leader united the people and believed in true secularism, unlike the pseudo-secular cocksuckers in India who have always used "secularism" to divide people. The people who started this trend are the assholes in the Congress and the CPI/marxists. |
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Karapall 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 692 of 5400 ) Also, for all the hullaballo that america creates about secularism, most americans firmly believe that it is a "christian" country based on "christian" values, similar to what the hindu groups claim today. The only difference is that the americans, even the non religious ones, just let it be...why?? Because it is infinitely more harmful to challenge these notions than to let it slide by, where it is actually irrelevant to the lives of most americans. But in India, we have hindu turds like you who piss on all hindus for "communal"behavior, while giving communal muslims the easy slip...the reason being "secularism". Anyone with an iota of sense knows that the rabid hindus are definitely more secular than rabid muslims. But by terming alll BJP-supporters are rabidly communal people who dont deserve to live, turds like you are hurting your own goal of promoting communal harmony. One has to only look at the TOTAL POLARISATION of society in Gujarat, where 52% would STILL vote for the BJP, even after all these riots. This, pal, is the future of India. Live it with; "secular" turds like you created the environment for such hindus groups to gain popular public support. |
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rajivm 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 693 of 5400 ) WHY DO ALL OF YOU PADGAONKARS, SHEKHAR GUPTAS & VINOD MEHTAS THINK THAT KASHMIRI HINDUS, MAULED & UPROOTED BY MUSLIMS IN KASHMIR, DID NOT DESERVE AS MUCH HUE & CRY AS YOU DO FOR MUSLIMS IN GUJARAT ? WHY DID NONE OF YOU USE THE STRENGTH OF YOUR PEN TO ESPOUSE THEIR CAUSE ? IS IT NOT IRONICAL THAT SUCH ESPOUSAL COMES FROM AS FAR A PLACE AS USA AND NOT FROM THE COUNTRY OF THEIR ORIGIN ? ARE THEY LESS HUMANS THAN MUSLIMS ? WHY IS IT THAT WHILE ALL OF YOU WRITE & SHOUT ABOUT ATROCITIES ON MUSLIMS, NONE OF THESE JAVED AKHTARS, PRAFUL BIDWAIS AND NOORANIS ARE SEEN NOWHERE WHEN SIMILAR ATROCITIES ARE COMMITTED ON HINDUS ? WHY IS IT THAT PAINTING OF SARASWATI BY M.F.HUSSAIN IS SEEN AS A PIECE OF ART, WHILE A BOOK BY RUSHDIE IS BANNED & ALL OF YOU KEEP QUIET ? WHY IS IT THAT THE DEMOLITION OF A STRUCTURE IN AYODHYA, BUILT BY A MARAUDER, MAKES THE NATIONAL PRESS SHED TEARS AND NONE AT ALL FOR THE UPROOTING OF MILLIONS OF HINDUS IN KASHMIR & BANGLADESH & DEMOLITION OF THEIR HOMES ? HERE I AM NOT IN ANY WAY TRYING TO JUSTIFY WHAT HAPPENED IN GUJARAT OR THE ACTIONS OF MODI. MY AIM IS TO ANALYSE WHY HINDUS ARE GETTING FRUSTRATED AND FALLING INTO THE LAP OF FUNDAMENTALIST ELEMENTS. AN ORDINARY LIBERAL HINDU LIKE ME FEELS FRUSTRATED. I AM CAUGHT BETWEEN PSEUDO-SECULAR FRAUDS OF THE LIKES OF SAMAJWADI & CONGRESS PARTIES, RELIGION-LESS LEFTIST WRITERS AND THE LIKES OF YOU ALL, FOR WHOM IT IS NOT ONLY FASHIONABLE BUT ALSO A COMPULSION TO BE HINDU-BAITERS SO THAT YOU ARE COUNTED AMONG THE `PROGRESSIVE INTELLECTUAL CLUB¿. IT IS THE ABOVE MENTIONED, WHO HAVE PUSHED A LIBERAL HINDU INTO THE LAP OF VHPs & BAJRANG DALs, WHERE HE NEVER BELONGED AND REMAINS UNCOMFORTABLE. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT SECULARISM IN THIS COUNTRY IS BECAUSE OF HINDUS AND NOT MUSLIMS. HAD MUSLIMS BEEN SECULAR, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN SECULAR MUSLIM DOMINATED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD. BUT THERE IS NONE. COMING BACK TO MY POINT, IT IS THE EROSION OF THE CONSTITUENCY OF THE SECULAR HINDU, WHICH SHOULD BE CAUSING CONCERN TO ALL OF YOU, THE SO CALLED, INTELLECTUAL TRIBE, IF YOU ARE SERIOUS. AND I PLACE THAT EROSION ENTIRELY ON YOUR HEAD FOR BEING BALTANTLY PARTISAN. AS AN EXAMPLE, ONE OF YOU, REGULARLY CARRIED THE PHOTOGRAPH OF A CHILD CALLED ASIF IN YOUR PAPER AS A VICTIM OF GUJARAT RIOTS. NONE OF YOU BOTHERED TO VISIT THE FAMILIES OF GODHRA VICTIMS AND CARRY THEIR PHOTOGRAPHS. THEY WERE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS ¿ MEN, WOMEN & CHILDREN BURNT ALIVE IN COLD BLOOD. R. MAHAJAN |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 694 of 5400 ) ashiss matherchot, you sister fucking commie bastard. if you love the muslims so much and hate the hindus so much go dip your motherfucking brainless head in pig shit you imbecile. matherchot let me tell you something, you are a hypocrite. why are you so concerned about the murder of muslims in gujarat. why are you condemning the VHP RSS etc. when it was a virtual war between two groups of peoples. have you condemned the muslims, you matherchot. if the VHP goons are roaming free then sonia gandhi bitch, pv narasimha rao chutiya, buta singh etc. are roaming free after murdering 300o sikhs in delhi. arrest the bitch sonia gandhi forthwith and put her in jail and hang her at cannaught place. the hypocritical bitch has the gall to condemn the VHP when she has blood dripping from her congress hands. fucker atleast be consistent. i know you have no fucking brains. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 695 of 5400 ) ashiss, benchot it is ok for a few thousand muslims to rot in camps in gujarat. no fucking big deal. there should be no rehabilitation of any kind until the pundits displaced in kashmir are rehabilitated. they have been without homes for 15 years. these muslim chors have been outside for 15 days. to hell with rehabilitation. teach the muslim chors and you motherfucking secular sister fuckers a good lesson. the best thing to do would be to kich you secular assholes out of your homes and trehabilitate the pundits and muslims in your homes. suwar ke aulad, kutha ka gaand. |
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luvvmann 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 696 of 5400 ) ashiss, benchot it is ok for a few thousand muslims to rot in camps in gujarat. no fucking big deal. there should be no rehabilitation of any kind until the pundits displaced in kashmir are rehabilitated. they have been without homes for 15 years. these muslim chors have been outside for 15 days. to hell with rehabilitation. teach the muslim chors and you motherfucking secular sister fuckers a good lesson. the best thing to do would be to kick you secular assholes out of your homes and rehabilitate the pundits and muslims in your homes. suwar ke aulad, kutha ka gaand, badboo napak janwar. |
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Phoenix 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 697 of 5400 ) "rajivm" that was a good outburst, and Karpall what you said about American "secularism" compared to the Indian model is absolutely right. ""Why was Pakistan created? Why not Hindustan?"" There lies the fundamental answer about secularism! ALL Islamic countries, barring one, are communal and discriminatory! Saudi Arabia even has different highway lanes for 'beleivers' and 'kaffirs'. |
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lok 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 698 of 5400 ) Array ashish bhai kahan lagay huay ho. These guys karapalls and luvmans are sick. Why the hell are yo wasting your energy on them. They dont even have an argument. Probably nobody is giving a damn to their sick thaughts outside this messageboard. I urge don't give these people even this platform to express thier sick ideas. Yeh saalay Singhal aur thakray kee najayaz auladein hain. Just let them scream and shout and think that they are being heard and applauded by their kind. Kuttay ki dum seedhi ho sakti hai lekin aisay log nahi sudhar saktay. They need to be stripped and sodomized with hot iron and then left to be eaten by vultures. Just do not entertain them. The more you try to converse with them the more they will feel that they are being heard. And you karapall alias luvvman alias a couple of other sick people on this board. Either give up or come out i n the open. Don't act like heejda's. You talk about big people like Sardar Patel and Bhagat singh in your messages, at least have the guts to say things in open. Dare to write a single article in any magazine of your choice by your original name and identify yourself..if you are guys are so patritic and bent on doing good for your country. Sick cowards you..I spit on people like you....You can imagine your face smeared with my shit, piss and spit. GO and look in the mirror and wipe it. Any ways you guys stink more than a pig shit. |
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Tathagat 3/1/2002 2:02:52 AM ( 699 of 5400 ) appa DeepO bhava Reflections on Gujarat Poems, painting by Roomi Mehra CreativeEdge, The Pioneer [ Ah Pioneer renames Buddha Devi Rooma, aha!!! :)... Roomi Naam Satya hai... Roomi naam prem hai...] A disappointing visit By Kuldip Nayar in The Hindu The last waltz By Amulya Ganguli in HT The current contortions in the BJP are due to several factors. The first is that the Mask in the PM¿s chair, the fake Sardar Patel in the home minister¿s office, the fake scientist in the HRD ministry, the fake socialist in defence, the fake journalist in the disinvestment ministry et al have all realised that their present days in the sun are coming to an end. Searching for faces in the mob By Rooma Mehra 4 The Tribune Laxman in TOI Dubyaman in TOI Ed itorial de Hindu: Not enough, Mr. Prime Minister Power without legitimacy : The Vajpayee government makes a mockery of democracy as it clings to power without legitimacy and appeases Hindutva fascism each passing day. Frontline When guns cease to fire KALPANA SHARMA 4 The Iendu What went wrong? I By Gail Omvedt 4 The Eendu Pa tel vs. Gandhi? By Rajmohan Gandhi 4 The Hindu On coalition course : The sheer painlessness of allying with the BJP Vandita Mishra in IE Pr ime Minister Vajpayee: the mirror with two faces Although Vajpayee may calculatedly project a soft and moderate exterior, he is an RSS man to the boot, says Zafar Agha 4 tehelka |
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