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Hinduism : Is something wrong with it ? Peace 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM If the Sangh Parivar is to be believed, even in these modern times, rampant violations of human rights and subversion of the rule of law in the name of religion, is acceptable practice and is in fact justified ! The religion that the Sangh Parivar claims to represent, draw its sustenance from and mirror, is Hinduism. Hinduism has been used by the Sangh Parivar and its supporters to justify hatred and blood letting, violence and killing, arson and looting, Vandalism and intolerance of conscientious objection and debate. Is there something in Hinduism and its teachings that allows its misuse , the abuse of human rights and the use of violence to settle scores ? Does the Sangh Parivar represent the noble tenets of Hinduism ? If the Sangh Parivar is a legitimate representative of Hinduism , are we witnessing a clash of civilizations ? Is it a phase gap between the development of human rights, modernity ,scientific temper on the one hand and obscurantism and primitive blood letting and violence from the 'representatives' of hinduism on the other hand ? Does the ascendance of the Sangh Parivar signal the death of philosphy and tolerance of Hinduism ? What is it? |
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Tathagat 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 1 of 205 ) appa DeepO bhava ... ah the subject should be read as "Hinduism : Is there anything right in it ?" ...is Hinduism compassionate? or why hinduism isn't compassionate??? or why HIndus are like aadiiwaasiis...!!! for years tathagat thought that dowry, Sati and the caste system are the biggest hindu evils... but that turned out2be the minor ones... compared2the one... that if u r in a bad shape... it is ur 'bad karma' in ur previous life... ha! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 2 of 205 ) Hey tathagat, The catholic Bishops Conference recently announced its support of legislation of quotas for "backward caste" christians. Maybe assholes like you could explain why christians (and muslims) in India seem to coopt the caste system if it gives them freebies. How come non hindu Indians seem to find the caste system SOO appealing?? Can you explain, or are you more comfortable wanking off on your keyboard. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 3 of 205 ) Peace, You forgot to mention that the same attitude persists among assholes like you who seem to claim that the violence in godhra was acceptable because (1) Ayodhya (which causes islamic angst, apparently) (2) The people on the train dared to yell Hindu religious phrases in a muslim locality (3) Some of the men exposed themselves to muslim women. In fact, 2 and 3 have been reported as complete lies, if you refer to the headline article by PS Jha on Godhra. So, if you can glibly explain away deaths of people you dont much care for, then you are no better than all the hindu dorks you seem to hate so much. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 4 of 205 ) Hinduism is the best religion, Islam is the worst. Read Geeta and Quran and u will find which is better. Hinduism has the richest philosophy followed by Buddhism.Whereas Islam has nothing but ignorance and darkness. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 5 of 205 ) Hinduism is the best religion, Islam is the worst. Read Geeta and Quran and u will find which is better. Hinduism has the richest philosophy followed by Buddhism.Whereas Islam has nothing but ignorance and darkness. |
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galaxy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 6 of 205 ) Hinduism has a noble stream.It is assimilative, steeped in great philosphy and extremely tolerant . Like all the great religions of this world, Hinduism is life giving. It does not stand for destruction and violence. It does not sire Philistines and vandals but supports aesthetics and the love for purity and truth. It has been hijacked by the RSS and its satellites. The RSS has no clue of Hinduism in fact it is its biggest threat today. The RSS does not represent Hindus or Hinduism let's get that very clear. It is a slur on the noble aspects of this great religion. Like every religion I do acknowledge that there have been aberrations. Hinduism is resilient and progressive enough to take our society ahead so long as it is not taken over by the RSS and subverted to achieve its twisted purpose ! |
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sr 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 7 of 205 ) Nothing's wrong with Hinduism. The problem lies with those hard core communalists who are ignominiously blemishing the religion and exploiting it for their own interests. Hinduism is a great religion and has the same humane principles like any other cult of faith. Shobha Rana |
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nvk 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 8 of 205 ) I do not mean to offend anybody, but hinduism is NOT a religion. Hinduism is away of life that contains many diverse and often contradictory practices by its followers. Hinduism is one the oldest religions on earth because it accepts anybody's belief. As for those who compare the Geeta and the Quaran, have you guy's read the Geeta or the quoran? Read chapter four of the geeta for an understanding of how worship of the infinite can be in many forms.. look at verse 21 chapter seven for confirmation of divinity's multi facets. |
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Tathagat 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 9 of 205 ) appa DeepO bhava Annihilation of Caste: One More Look By Dr. L. Jawahar Nesan What Would Gandhi Do Today? ROMANTIC ATHEISM Poetry and freethought, 1780±1830 MARTIN PRIESTMAN Adobe Acrobat pdf file Re: Budhism - Why India should be Secular Why Dr. Ambedkar renounced Hinduism? By Dr. Ramendra, Reader, Department of Philosophy Patna College, Patna University Dr. Ambedkar's role as a prominent constitution maker of India is quite well known. However, his views on religion, particularly his reasons for renouncing Hinduism, the religion of his birth, are not as widely known. Ambedkar who was born in an "untouchable" family carried on a relentless battle against untouchability throughout his adult life. In the last part of his life, he renounced Hinduism and became a Buddhist. What were his reasons for doing so? A detailed answer to this question can be obtained by studying his The Buddha and His Dhamma, Annihilation of Caste, Philosophy of Hinduism, Riddles in Hinduism etc. Nonetheless, some of his articles, speeches and interviews before and after his conversion to Buddhism throw some light on this question. Ambedkar’s statement in 1935 at Yeola Conference is quite instructive in this regard. Ambedkar believed that the untouchables occupied a "weak and lowly status" only because they were a part of the Hindu society. When attempts to gain equal status and "ordinary rights as human beings" within the Hindu society started failing, Ambedkar thought it was essential to embrace a religion which will give "equal status, equal rights and fair treatment" to untouchables. He clearly said to his supporters "select only that religion in which you will get equal status, equal opportunity and equal treatment…" Evidently, after a comparative study of different religions, Ambedkar concluded that Buddhism was the best religion from this point of view. In his article "Buddha and the Future of his Religion" published in 1950 in the Mahabodhi Society Journal, Ambedkar has summarized his views on religion and on Buddhism in the following manner: 1. The society must have either the sanction of law or the sanction of morality to hold it together. Without either, the society is sure to go to pieces. 2. Religion, if it is to survive, it must be in consonance with reason, which is another name for science. 3. It is not enough for religion to consist of moral code, but its moral code must recognize the fundamental tenets of liberty, equality and fraternity. 4. Religion must not sanctify or make a virtue out of poverty. According to Ambedkar, Buddhism fulfilled these requirements and so among the existing religions it was the only suitable religion for the world. He felt that the propagation of Buddhism needed a Bible. Apparently, Ambedkar wrote The Buddha and his Dhamma to fulfill this need. In the same article, Ambedkar has enumerated the evils of Hinduism in the following manner: 1. It has deprived moral life of freedom. 2. It has only emphasized conformity to commands. 3. The laws are unjust because they are not the same for one class as of another. Besides, the code is treated as final. ---cont., |
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Tathagat 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 10 of 205 ) appa DeepO bhava According to Ambedkar, "what is called religion by Hindus is nothing but a multitude of commands and prohibitions." In the same year, Ambedkar delivered a speech on Buddha Jayanti day in Delhi, in which he attacked Hindu gods and goddess and praised Buddhism because it was a religion based on moral principles. Besides, he pointed out, unlike the founders of other religions who considered themselves emissaries of god; the Buddha regarded himself only as a guide and gave a revolutionary meaning to the concept of religion. He said that Hinduism stood for inequality, whereas Buddhism stood for equality. In May 1956, a talk by Ambedkar titled "Why I like Buddhism and how it is useful to the world in its present circumstances" was broadcast from the British Broadcasting Corporation, London. In his talk Ambedkar said: I prefer Buddhism because it gives three principles in combination, which no other religion does. Buddhism teaches prajna (understanding as against superstition and supernaturalism), karuna (love), and samata (equality). This is what man wants for a good and happy life. Neither god nor soul can save society. In his last speech delivered in Bombay in May 24 1956, in which he declared his resolve to embrace Buddhism, Ambedkar observed: Hinduism believes in God. Buddhism has no God. Hinduism believes in soul. According to Buddhism, there is no soul. Hinduism believes in Chaturvarnya and the caste system. Buddhism has no place for the caste system and Chaturvarnya. It is obvious that Ambedkar regarded Buddhism as a much more rational religion compared to Hinduism, rather the most rational religion. His main objection to Hinduism was that it sanctified inequality and untouchability through its doctrine of Chaturvarnya. Buddhism, on the other hand, rejected Chaturvarnya and supported equality. He commends Buddhism for rejecting god and soul and for emphasizing morality. According to him, prajna (understanding as against superstition and supernaturalism), karuna (love), and samata (equality), which Buddhism alone teaches, is all that human beings need for a "good and happy life". Ambedkar’s final religious act was to embrace Buddhism. His work The Buddha and his Dhamma contains his own understanding and interpretation of Buddhism. We may say that Buddhism as expounded in this book is what Ambedkar embraced and recommended. In this book Ambedkar has tried to interpret Buddhism in a rationalistic manner. Ambedkar did not believe in the existence of god and soul. This is obvious from the reasons he has given for embracing Buddhism as well as from his interpretation of Buddhism in Buddha and His Dhamma. In Buddhism, as interpreted by Ambedkar, there is no place for god and soul. Further, according to Ambedkar, Buddha did not believe in rebirth, karma and moksha as traditionally conceived. Besides, Buddha rejected the varna vyavastha. It is widely recognized by scholars of Buddhism that Buddha did not believe in god and soul and also that he rejected varna-vyavastha. However, according to the traditional interpretation of Buddhism, Buddha did believe in rebirth and the related doctrine of "bondage" and liberation (nirvana). Ambedkar's interpretation of Buddhism differs from the traditional interpretation on this point. But regrettably Ambedkar has not documented his book Buddha and his Dhamma. Therefore it is not possible to say how he arrived at his alternative interpretation of Buddhism. From a rationalist and humanist point of view, one may say that Buddhism is a better religion than Hinduism and that it is closer to rationalism-humanism compared to any other religion. Still, it cannot be denied that Buddhism is a religion and certain elements like faith, worship and other-worldliness or supernaturalism, which are common to all religions, are also found in Buddhism. Therefore the best thing is to give up all religions and adopt rational humanism as a philosophy of life. |
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Lehar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 11 of 205 ) Peace, with all due respect to you, Hinduism (in the mould practiced and propagated by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda) is a truly noble and egalitarian religion. To take the Scoundrels of the RSS (including their representatives in Government) at thier 'double-faced' value and to give respectability to their fraudulent claims to represent Hinudism is RIDICULOUS because the claim of these impostors is so UNTRUE. The RSS (the indoctrinated thugs who call themselves swayamsevaks) and the RSS frontal organisations are fascist to boot. They can easily be classified as terrorrists and terrorist organisations. The rightful treatment for the RSS and its leadership including Advani , Modi and Vajpayee is their prosecution at the international court of justice at the Hague for crimes against humanity. They are as much repesentative of Hinudism , my dear Peace, as Milosevic and Hitler represent Christianity, Al Qaida and KLA represent Islam, Sharon and the Irgun of Menachem Begin represent Judaism ! There is nothing really wrong with non- instituionalised religion shorn off doctrinal-dogma whether it is Hinduism or Islam or Christianity. The fact is that petty and impotent men of the RSS have missed the essence of Hinduism and have hijacked it to justify thier thirst for power and domination ! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 12 of 205 ) galaxy The dynamics of large groups of people must be seen from a different view. The rise of the RSS is a phenomenon fueled by the congress wallahs with their vote bank politics. If India was truly secular in the sense America is, then do you think people would tolerate the hard core muslim and hindu groups?? Ofcourse not. India's problems can only be solved by separating church from state and removing religious civil laws from the ambit of Indian civil law. |
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sonia 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 13 of 205 ) You cannot blame hinduism because of some bad people. It is one of the best religions in the world. I give 5 out of 5 for hinduism. Understand well the hinduism before accusing it. It has large no.of intellectuals. It was shaped by intellectuals over thousands of years and it can not go wrong |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 14 of 205 ) Lehar,Mind backing up your worthless rhetoric with some explanation?? 1.Who gave the AIMPLB or for that matter the Jamaat-e-hind the title of" Representatives ofmuslims "???And why should non muslims consider them legitimate? This just flips your claimon RSS on its head.I know that the commie assholes in India claim that Bukhari and the Jamaat speak for all muslims in India, which If ind hard to believe. 2.Secondly, are the RSS any more orless indoctrinated than all the mullah fuks who have hijacked the agenda of Indian muslims??If so, how? 3.Do you know that the reis no such thing a sinter national law?? The ICJCANNOT pass judgement soncasesun less the member countries are willing to enforce the law.The recent libyan hearings were conducted by the US and UK.Would your e commend the elected representatives of your own country tof a cedis honor just be cause you dont seee yet o eye with the ir views.DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND how STUPID this kind of attitude is in today's world ??? Ever heard of the stories where internal disunity provides lever age to external entities, and this includes brain less shenanig ans by cretins like you. Every anti- government article by the press is used by foreign governments to screw India. You would know that if you bothered to read foreign papers. |
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joy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 15 of 205 ) Kara bhai, aap yahan bhi pahunch gaye.Dhanya ho-desh ka bhavishyaa apke haat surakshit hai.Jab tak aap jaise erudites yahan hain,tab tak desh ko koi nahin chhoo sakta. KARA BHAI, WILL YOU COMPILE YOUR PRECIOUS IDEAS IN A BOOK-PLEEZ,PLEEZ ,KARA BHAI |
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ash_ram 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 16 of 205 ) I very much agree with you joy. This guy is every where....It seems he is a damant on making him self beleive that his is the most ight opinion and shared by most people.Initially when I did not read the names and kept on reading the messages I was shocked....do most hindus think the same way in India. any ways Pankaj Jha has written an article in Outlook in which he tries to say that the my stery email was arumor. Well I did not read the story in any email, but in the Washington post and the Independent. Here's the link to the independent.http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia_china/sto ry.jsp?story=276349 The second one is in the washington post:Provocation Preceded Indian Train Fire Official Faults Hindu Actions, Muslim Reactions for Incident That Led to Carnage Article 9 of 16 found Rajiv Chandra sekaran Washington Post Foreign Service March 6,2002; age A10 ection:A |
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maky 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 17 of 205 ) There is only one thing wrong with Hinduism.It tolerates bullshit of the believers of it who consider liberal themselves without blinking an eyelid towards ills of other religions. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 18 of 205 ) ash_ram, Do you know what a primary source is?? The news that people in the train misbehaved was an act of mischief, as explained in Prem Shankar Jha's article. Now, can you tell why the wash post article is any more correct, even though both of them have the same incorrect source?? I guess white people are never wrong, eh??? Well done, pal. If Jha has the courage to point out that his story was wrong, then Rajiv's story is also wrong. It is just that admitting that he submitted a report to wash post based on a fake email would get him fired for incompetence (it means that Rajiv was too lazy to do the homework that Jha obviously did). |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 19 of 205 ) ash_ram, If you have a specific rebuttal, spit it out. Pansies like you should get some backbone and defend your views on your own instead of looking for moral support from others who share your view. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 20 of 205 ) yes there is something very wrong with hinduism. any other religion in it's place would have slaughtered the muslims mercilessly for all the provocation and insults that these fanatic goons indulge in. actually hindu motherfuckers are cowards. no other religion would produce a character like gandhi or an imbecile like nehru, and then give them the status of national heroes. nehru was an outright traitor. yes, if hindus do not mend their stupid ways and protect themselves, we will see many more pakistan's emerging. then there will be no hindu left. ash_ram change your name to ash_ as you will not exist. |
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maky 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 21 of 205 ) Right o Luvvmann.Give them back.They deserve it more than Muslims. |
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ash_ram 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 22 of 205 ) Bhayyon aur Crap all kee behnon Ek swar main bolo SIYA VAR KARA BHAI URF CRAP ALL KI JAY |
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ash_ram 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 23 of 205 ) Hey Luwman What does " ash_ram change your name to ash_ as you will not exist" ? Well are you a 15 year old or a juvenile deliquent. Well what ever you may be you are surely not worth being taken seriously. All I can do at you comments is give a sarcastic smile and have pity on your fate. I really do feel bad and sympathetic for your family who have to bear you every day. I know it must be really painful for them. But thats life you know. People learn to live with mentally chalanged, but your case is even worse. I wish there were some good institutions for people like you. And if you are a 15 year old, never mind...you will get over it once you pass your adolescence phase. Good Luck Yours Truly , ASH_RAM (RAM RAM RAM RAM :)) :( |
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sarah 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 24 of 205 ) Hinduism is being misinterpreted and falsely portrayed by the so called protectors of Religion(The sangh Parivar). Who are we to look for the representation of Hinduism? If it is sangh parivar than my answer would be emphatic "no". It makes me wonder how come these rotten lots of sangh parivar assume that they are the sole knower of Hinduism and therefore the protector. It reminds me of the famous saying which aptly Fits in here......"Andhon main kana raja". The onus now is for the educated lots to take in command of the situation and challenge the false concepts propagated and fuelled by the sangh parivars. I think by challenging the ignorance of the sangh lots we can help emerge the true essence of religion. |
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sarah 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 25 of 205 ) The saffronisation of India - A religious or a secular state? The militant groups like RSS are keen to convert India into Hindu national completely denying the principle of equal respects and tolerence towards the minority groups. The founding fathers of our nation wanted all Indians to get a good life and hence emphasis on secularism which is being threatened by the hardcore Hindu groups. Hinduism is the name given to a family of religions and cultures that began and still flourish in India. Hinduism is more an approach to the universe, and a way of living in the universe than an intellectual system of philosophy. There are many misconceptions about Hinduism and its representations. |
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krbose 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 26 of 205 ) YEs there are two things that are wrong with hinduism fro sure: Luwmann and Karapall (CrapAll) |
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ssnkumar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 27 of 205 ) I think the author has conviniently forgotten, why all this is happening. All these are the reactions the hindu soceity is showing for whatever has happened in the lat 1000 years. It is the greatness of hindu to have waited with patience for so long. No other society wouln't have waited so long! You can keep quite once if you are slapped. But, if this get repeated 100 times...!? You are bound to react! That's what is happening today. The history itself is a spectator of all that had happened. For time being, let's forget what has happenned 1000 years back. Let's go back to 60 years. Our country got split on August 15, 1947 on communal lines! I don't think the author will blame the Sangh parivaar for this too! Now, how can a person forget the slayer of his mother. But, hindus kept quite, thinking that we will get peace at last! But, what happened after that. Hindus had to face stone throwing during their processions. They got objections to their processions in their own country! And nobdoy tried to tell anything contrary to the other community! This continued for long. Now, they are burning the whole train containing hindu pilgrims! These muslims are behind all the underground activities. They are the ones whose hand are seen when a bomb gets exploded at some place! These people rejoice when India loses a cricket match with Pakistan! These people support the terrorists in Kashmir. They help ISI to destablize this country! How can the patriotic people keep quite seeing all this. Above all, our leaders, media and everybody will ask hindus to keep quite whenever all this erupts and no word of advice for muslims! How long can this be tolerated!? Hindus are bound to react. With or without Sangh parivar they will react. Nobody can stop this. The only way out is for the muslims to win the good will of the majority community here. When I go to Rome, I have to live like a Roman. I have to obey their laws. I have to respect their national heroes. I cannot support their enemies. Otherwise they will throw me out. THis is a natural rule for any nation. The minority has to win the goodwill of the majority. Otherwise they will get perished. Here in India, the minority have been never looked as second rate citizens! They have been given freedom of worship. They are enjoying whatever the majority is enjoying. We cannot see this in any other country. Take for example Pakistan/Bangladesh. You can see the plight of minority there. Here in India, the majority community is very generous. And the minority is misuing this generocity and this won't run for long. It's in the good will of minority that they will soon learn how to live. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 28 of 205 ) there are one thing wrong with hindus , it is krbose ! there are lots of krboses among hindus who will have nothing to say when hindus are massacred , that is the reason why even after pigstani muslims had successfully eliminated crores of Hindus , we Indian hindus still dream to be friendly with pigstan ,,,,, that is the reason why the monkeys like krbose will keep on shedding buckets and buckets of tears over palestinees , while they will ignore the sufferrings of 5 lakh kashmiri pandits who r refugees in their own homeland. 1000 years of slavery is not enough for u krbose , u want to be slave again , a "secular" slave ?? have u ever read the holy geeta , what does it say about a just war ?? do u want us watch helplessly when our hindu brothers/sisters are massacred ?? may be u want that , as the wretched "secular" monkey u r ! we r sorry , we think in a different way . what is hell , what is heaven , we don't care . given a chance we will prefer to massacre the fucking jehadis in pigstan , we prefer to cut their bodies to pieces and GOD will decide heaven or hell for us. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 29 of 205 ) What is disgusting is the way our "secular" intellectuals and politicians react after the godhra incident. They blamed hindus and VHP !! again for the riot in ahmedabad , they blame vhp and rss . it is their fucking "secularism" to blame hindus for everything. these are the same monkey seculars who blamed rss for coimbatore bomb blast!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 30 of 205 ) What is disgusting is the way our "secular" intellectuals and politicians react after the godhra incident. They blamed hindus and VHP !! again for the riot in ahmedabad , they blame vhp and rss . it is their fucking "secularism" to blame hindus for everything. these are the same monkey seculars who blamed rss for coimbatore bomb blast!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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sarah 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 31 of 205 ) Do we know for ourselves without somebody telling us that I am Hindu or Muslim? No. We are conditioned into thinking that we are Hindu, we believe in Ram and we should go to temple and so on¿.What takes place? Hindus and Muslims may live in the same streets but because of their conditioning, their beliefs and dogmas they are separate. Conflict is evident where there is political, economic, social and nationalistic division. Can we cease to live without being labelled as Muslims, Hindus, Capitalist or communists? This is the factor of intelligence; becoming aware that we are conditioned, then seeing the effect of that conditioning in the world, the divisions, nationalistic and religious, war, riots and so on¿¿¿.. Can we cease to be Hindu or Muslim to live peacefully in world? Also what is the true religious mind? It is a mind that has seen through the falsity of temples, churches, mosques, beliefs and traditions. It is an explosive mind that is extraordinary subtle, has no anchor. It is this mind, which can create a good world where there is harmony without any contradiction with oneself. And I think true religious mind can only be created through right education- hence the disputed site should be used neither for temple nor mosque but for construction of school which is committed to change the society not by killing on religious grounds but by converting human beings who care, who have affection, who love people. Perhaps if we live that way, we might find the true meaning of religion. |
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ssnkumar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 32 of 205 ) The only way to live in peace is to live by the polciy of "Live and let Live". Tolerance towards other religions is the need of the hour. Hindus have been tolerant all these years. Muslims and christians have tried to cash on this. They have attacked their temples, tried to convert them etc. Otherwise how did their number become crores? What is the basis for conversion in a secular state? Because of this hatred towards hinduism by Muslims and Christians have made hindus militants. Now it is the muslims and christians to learn religious tolerance and live in hormony. Whatever hindu is doing is just a reaction. Once the action is stopped then there will be no reaction. So, let's ask muslims and christians to practice religious tolerance; to stop religious conversions; to stop attacking on hindu religious processions; to stop siding with ISI and other anti-national enemies. This is the need of the other. It is high time we have asked the muslims and Christians to do this. We have kept mum whenver they did something like this. So, let's try this way and see if we get peace. If hindus don't stop even after muslims and christians practice toleracne then we shall ask them to follow tolerance, shall condemn their activities. Otherwise there is no point in asking only hindus to keep quite. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 33 of 205 ) ssnkumar, very correct analysis. it shows how biased our media has become. it is dominated by socalled secularists, communists,and hindu haters. we are in trouble again. thanks to the foolish gandhi and traitor nehru, hindus suffered greviously in 1947. the time has come again for suffering. we had a golden opportunity to create an india of our dreams a truly secular and cultured state based on a mix of our sanathan dharma and modern values. but these hindu hating morons did not want india to succeed and are creating troble. it is time for war. hindus take up arms and fight to the finish. it is better to live with dignity and pride than suffer the onslaught of muslim barbarism and communist treachery. fight these barbarians to the end. create an india based on indian values and culture. fight, fight, fight and protect your honor. kill thsoe that attack you, your country , your temples, your women and your children. fight with dignity and discipline and victory will be yours. |
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sarah 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 34 of 205 ) We can go into this question of religion,dogma, belief very analytically but at the end of this we are still where we were(2000 years ago). Also are religious problems isolated problem by itself,or are there other things associated with it? How are we to approach the problem? My question is: Is religion an isolated problem which is to be comprehended only by onslaughting muslims/hindus? or, Can there be an approach that is not an isolated critical comprehension but an understanding that is total-of religion, not ceremonies, but the religious feeling which has nothing to do with religious organisation. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 35 of 205 ) ash_ram, tsk, tsk, is this juvenile sloganeering tripe the best you can come up with. But then, commie turds like you probably got most of their education during sloganeering, as can be easily discerned from your vacuous braindead posts. |
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ssnkumar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 36 of 205 ) We are getting misled by the word religion! Actually Hindu is not a religion, but it is a dharma, for which there is no equivalent word in english. Dharma is one which is inclusive of all. Even the supreme court has accepted this and has told the Hindu is a way of life. And this is the only Dharma in the world! All others are religious faiths. Religious faith is one which talks about a particular god, prophet, book, temple, way of worship etc. It's dogma! For hindu, muslims and christians are not outsiders. They can be included in the Dharma. Hindu never imposes some dogma on its followers. You can have your own path/view. Such is the liberal outlook of Hindu. But, the problem comes, when some religion tries to force its rules on others, tries to convert people into its own, destorys other beliefs etc. Then the reaction is bound to happen and bloodshed will follow. And this religion is the part and parcel of ones life. People can die for their religion but cannot live without it. Even people who say we don't follow any religion will be following some religion in hiding! The only way to stop this war is to preach the religious tolerence to those who say their religion is the best and try to convert others into it. Make them accept that religious salvation is possible in other ways also. Then only they will also live and others will also live peacefully. |
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sarah 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 37 of 205 ) ssnkumar It seems that the so called religious people either Hindu or Muslim have special individual contracts with God and themselves alone- They are not concerned with the rest of the world. Perhaps dependence on religion is the root cause of India's inaction, it is quite convenient to divorce function from social concern or obligation. What has become so important in the name of religion is symbolic action. India remains a tragic paradox. Hinduism is absorbed into great Indian symbolism, its significance rapidly fading. Indian nationalism grew out of Hindu revivalism. Just as nothing remains of Gandhi in India but his name and worship of his image, same is with Hinduism, rich in symbolism and rituals. India delves in symbolism: symbolic dress, symbolic food, symbolic worship: India deals in symbols and inaction. |
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ssnkumar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 38 of 205 ) Hi Sarah, The problem with India, is we the sons of this soil have forgotten about that. We are searching outside for motivation. We don't know who is our enemy and who is a friend! We don't know who is an invader and who is a freedom fighter! Invaders like Babar have been seen as heroes! Conversion is making havoc. People who get converted are acting as if they have come from outside and like enemies! Otherwise how can ISI play its game here!? THough politicians know all this, they are thinking of only votes and they are using this as an opportunity. The whole western world is looking at India for showing light in the form of Hinduthva. We are being told to turn away from it. The problem being the word religion. Hindu is not a religion like others. It's Dharma, a way of life! Even muslims and christinas are part of it. When they realize this and stop religious intolerence, then we can make progress. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 39 of 205 ) sarah, I believe that understanding religions wont work. The problem is not the religions themselves, but the attitudes of the current followers of the religion. All religions have had bloody pasts, including hinduism. Islam is the only remaining religion that refuses to even think of reform. Without reform, islam is a bigoted blodthirsty religion as can be seen by the behavior of current followers of that religion. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 40 of 205 ) krbose, Jim is not a hindu name, by the way, or maybe I should bow down to the knowledge you pseudo-secular assholes have on hinduism and its evilness (or alternatively islam and its goodness) Bengali fuks like you should crawl back to whichever commie rathole you crawled out of, instead of wishing the death of people who you disagree with. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 41 of 205 ) Sarah, I have known RSS folks and I believe that they have been given a bad rap by the pseudo-secular assholes in the Indian press. In my mind, they are akin to the christian coalition in the US. However, the VHP consists of a bunch of losers who are not clever enough to figure out who their enemies are and who their friends are. RSS does a lot of social work in villages and they reach people at the grassroots level. In other words, the reason why the pseudo-intellectuals in the Indian press badmouth the RSS is because the RSS is slowly gaining the support of hindus across the country, which would spell doom for these "secular" (read anti-hindu) assholes in the media and their commie agenda. |
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sarah 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 42 of 205 ) Karapall On Islam: Let's not fortget the painful process of history. People are always made by the world they reject and that the rage at it they express is in large measure rage at themselves. Perhaps this could be a possible explaination to the current behaviour of Islam. Sir vidya in his book Beyond Belief writes: In India there never was a complete Islamic conquest. Although the Muslims ruled much of North India from 1200 A.D. to 1700 A.D, in the eighteenth century, the Mahrattas and the Sikhs destroyed Muslim power, and created their own empires -- before the advent of the British. The British rule in Bengal lasted almost two centuries and in the Punjab a little less than a century. The British introduced the "New Learning of Europe," to which the Hindus were much more receptive than the Muslims, resulting in the "intellectual distance between the two communities. This distance has grown with independence... Muslim insecurity led to the call for the creation of Pakistan. It went at the same time with an idea of old glory, of the invaders sweeping down the northwest and looting the temples of Hindustan and imposing faith in the infidel. The fantasy still lives: and for the Muslim converts of the subcontinent it is the start of their neurosis, because in this fantasy the convert forgets who or what he is and becomes the violator." |
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rachna s 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 43 of 205 ) First of all i would like to question the point of debate it self. These magazines and journalists are becoming so cheap day by day that they could dare to raise a debate on hinduism in hindu country. In the preocess of making their respective magazines and newspapers sell they can go upto any extent. It would ve been better had those mobs killed those secular fundamentalist journalists . THis can happen only in india. |
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ssnkumar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 44 of 205 ) Well said Rachna! |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 45 of 205 ) rachna for president and prime minister and home minister. |
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joy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 46 of 205 ) Kara bhai, thanks for clarifying the difference between RSS and VHP. So that's what distinguishes the two! |
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rishi_s 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 47 of 205 ) dear rachna s, I appreciate your new found zealousness but let me tell u that hinduism is a dynamic and liberal religion and is always open to questions.Thats what which makes its followers progressive.The moment you discourage questioning it will stagnate and so will hindus.This is precisely the reason for the backwardness of muslims in general- questioning is not allowed in islam.Unfortunately u have also fallen victim to the RSS make belief of "hindu rashtra"-the number game.Going by this logic this world should be called as a "christian world".Isnt it?You are talking about killing the secular journalists.Believe me the moment this happens india will become another afghanistan.Hindu fudamentalists will rule the roost and "manusmriti" will become the law of the land. You wont get to come out of your "ghoonghat" let alone accessing internet. "dhol,gawar,shudra aur nari ya sab taran ke adhikaari".....;) |
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ssnkumar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 48 of 205 ) Rishi_s, What is wrong with Manusmrithi. It was a constitution of those bygone days. Today we are following Ambedkar Smrithi! As time advances, we have to make improvements to this, or may go for a new smrithi! Nothing wrong in that and that is called dynamism! Ofcourse Hinduthva never supports killings, I have never seen any RSS leader supporting the killing. They are asking the educated secualrists people like you to first condemn the killings of Godhra train massacre. If you don't do that you don't have any right to condemn the aftermath and you people will be responsible for making the hindus frustrated and justify the aftermath. And you have written the word fundamentalist. Now come on tell me what is the meaning of that word and how can a hindu ever become a fundamentalist! I don't think you will ever do it, because you don't know it. Please don't assume things and don't write what some others(probably the pseudo secularists, communists, politicians) have uttered! RSS has never told that it will rule the country. If you want to know more about it, then please read some of their publications and also what Mahathma Gandhi, Ambedkar, Subash Bose, etc have told about it. Go to the RSS meetings and hear to their leaders and come back when they tell thing which you have assumed in your letter! |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 49 of 205 ) joy, what distinguishes you from a pig. please specify. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 50 of 205 ) joy, Glad to know that something finally got through that thick skull of yours. Keep bashing it against a brick wall and you are sure to improve the quality of the human gene pool. |
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rachna s 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 51 of 205 ) By highlighting some statements and words used by yet another pseudo secularist idiot rishi , i leave it on the readers that whether i shud reply to it. 1) " Zealousness", 2) " going by the logic this world should be called chritian world" lol......ha...ha..... u inferior insect its proved that sanskrit is the mother of all the languages... I dont understand these ppl.. anything happens in india.. whether its a communal riots or somet hing else.. these rishis always jumps in with their wierd comments.. like.. " india will become afghanistan.. that fucker vinod mehta said " india will become a banana kingdom.. some same "is this the begining of " balkanization of india" get a life u wierdos... get a life.... and get some hold on ur outdated brains... |
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rachna s 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 52 of 205 ) New topic of discussion..... JOURNALISM -- IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT? |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 53 of 205 ) i bow to you rachna. i like the new topic. and let me add everything is wrong with indian journalism. the fuckers are corrupt, cowards, anti-hindu, anti-india. the matherchots get money from pakistan and china to belittle their own country. they are gaddars. they should be shot on sight for sedition. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 54 of 205 ) In fact, if one reads the editorials in the Indian Express, Outlook, and Hindustan times, one can see a very servile attitude towards the west and a complete self-denigrating attitude towards India and Indian achievements. Now, these are the same dipshits who claim to have a moral high ground over "communal" hindu groups like RSS which emphasize pride in being an Indian. Given these facts, I am sure that the RSS has more self-dignity and self-respect than these intellectual midgets like Vinod Mehta, Shekar Gupta, and Anita Pratap. |
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dchittib 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 55 of 205 ) JOURNALISM -- IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH IT ?? I AM NOT SURE IF THEY ARE CORRUPT, ANTI HINDU, ANTI INDIA or MATHERXXXX, BUT ONE THING I AM ABSOLUTELY SURE OF IS THAT THEY ARE INCOMPETENT NINCOMPOOPS !!! |
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mumbai02 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 56 of 205 ) Quran quotes The following shows chapter 9 of the quran so anyone can read it in context. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ 009.qmt.html Here is the web site from another university. [Quran 9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the infidels wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [quran 9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book(Jews and Christians), until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [quran 9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! To read the full context, you can find the translated text of the Koran at the following website... http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.ht ml Quran: [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. ----------------------- I wont take something written 1600 years ago very seriously. But the question is do Muslims really believe all the above ? Do they think they have to follow the Quran (and all the above) to go to heaven ? |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 57 of 205 ) dchittib, i understand how you feel. actually the journalists are corrupt. they are on the payroll of china and pakistan. hence, you see glotification of china (complete supression of tibetan news) and soft pedalling of pakistan. then you have the congresswalas doing their share of mischief. the only people who are truthful are the muslims. they know what they are, what they want, and what they feel. they are not liars like their hindu psuedo secular matherchots. the reason india is in the present condition is certainly not the muslims fault. the resaon is because of gandhi-nehru cowardly hindu matherchots stabbing their own community and country in the back. nothing has changed since jaychand betrayed prithvi raja. the result was, both jaychand and prithvi raja lost thier lives. |
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trishool 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 58 of 205 ) his is to rachna and her pussy lickers- luwmann and dchittib These are the people which force the moderates of both communities to adapt extremism.Born and brought up in an intellectually deprived enviroment they are unable to see things in right perspective and develop a chronic habit of jumping to conclusions.I appeal to all the so called "pseudo seculars" present here to treat these people with sympathy and try to rope them in the national mainstream. |
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trishool 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 59 of 205 ) LUWMANN,RACHNA,MUMBAI02 ETC ETC.- IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEM? YES THEY ARE THE ANTI NATIONAL ELEMENTS WHICH IF NOT CHECKED WOULD TAKE INDIA 1000 YEARS BACK.THEY ARE THE DIRT OF THE SOCIETY(OWING TO A TROUBLED CHILDHOOD) WHICH FINDS PLEASURE IN BLOODSHED.THIS IS AN APPEAL FOR THE SAKE OF THE NATION.ASHISHS,RISHI_S,JOY,JOSH AND ALL THE CONCERNED AND RESPONSIBLE CITIZENS!!WE SHALL FIGHT THIS DIRT OUT OF THE NATION BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.THIS IS AN APPEAL TO ALL INDIANS,THIS IS A DISTRESS CALL!! OUR NATION IS IN PERIL!! C`MON!!DRIVE THESE MOTHER FUCKERS OUT.THEY DONT HAVE ANY RELIGION!!THEY ARE THE FRANKENSTEIN MONSTER CREATED BY RSS.THEY ARE SUCKING THE BLOOD OF OUR MOTHER INDIA LIKE BRAM STROKER`S DRACULA!! |
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trishool 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 60 of 205 ) IN MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE I THOUGHT THAT ITS STILL NOT TOO LATE AND THEY CAN BE BROUGHT BACK IN THE NATIONAL MAINSTREAM.BUT I WAS MISTAKEN. |
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dchittib 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 61 of 205 ) TRISHOOL, my friend. So you call me a PXXXXLicker. I'll take that as a complement. Actually, I am a good one at that too. If you aren't one do learn. It might serve some purpose in your otherwise useless life. In my earlier post I said indian journalists (not all) are incompetent nincompoops. Tell me why you disagree with that if you do, instead of all this idiotic name calling. AND by the way you don't need to drive me out of the Nation. Thank god, I am far away from idiots like you and have to deal with you only on the internet. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 62 of 205 ) Three more translations: By Shakir http://www.uah.edu/msa/quranShakir.h tml By Mohammed Pickthall http://www.al-sunnah.com/call_to_ islam/quran/pickthall/ or download a translation from http://www.quran-islam.org/183.html My quotes are accurate and the hatred in the Quran is REAL!!! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 63 of 205 ) trishool, Care to explain why the "secularists" in India (such as dimwits like you) see no problem with the hatred taught in the Quran, that too to impressionable children in madrassas all over the country. On the one hand, the dismal state of education in India is responsible, but on the other hand, if we are going to allow madrassas to exist in India's borders, we should make sure that they do not teach the hatred of non muslims, as prescribed in the Quran. |
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joy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 64 of 205 ) Kara Bhai, ye Qoran kahe padh rahe ho? Gita padho aur Moksha ko prapt karo. Krodhit mat ho. Shant man se meditate karo. bahut phayda hoga. Roz pranayam karte ho ki nahin? |
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joy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 65 of 205 ) kara bhai, Luv bhai - aap phir krodhit ho gaye. Main to mazaak kar raha tha. Main to kehta hoon ki Singhalji ko PM aur Togadiyaji to President banao. Desh ka sara dukh mit jayeega. Aur haan , RSS aur VHP ke beech ka distinction to mujhhe pehle se hi maloom tha. Mein to sirf aap ko chidha raha tha. Aur aap bura maan gaye! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 66 of 205 ) joy, Do you have anything meaningful to say, you brainless dipshit?? Or are you content just blithering on aimlessly under the illusion that you are chockful of intelligent wit and humor?? |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 67 of 205 ) trishool, your silence speaks volumes, you terrorist-sympathizing muslim turd. |
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kperiyar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 68 of 205 ) RIG VEDA Translation from, http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda /rv03034.htm Verse 9: He gained possession of the Sun and Horses, Indra obtained the Cow who feedeth many. Treasure of gold he won; he SMOTE the Dasyus, and gave protection to the Aryan colour.(cut and paste from the above site) SMOTE - To inflict a heavy blow on, with or as if with the hand, a tool, or a weapon. Dasyus - Light skinned dravidians who were living in Indus valley civilisation and later day shudras of north india So many verses in Rig Veda talk about Terrorism in Hinduism which are very similar to Terrorism in Islam. BTW I am not trying to defend or offend any religion. |
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kperiyar 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 69 of 205 ) Apastambha Dharma Sutra III, 10-26, says: The tongue of a Shudra, who spoke evil about a BRAHMIN should be cut off. A Shudra who dared to assume a position of equality with the first three castes was to be flogged. If a Shudra overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten tin was to be poured into his ears; if he repeated the Vedas his tongue should be cut and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces. MANU, 167-272 says: Let the king never slay even though a Brahmin may have committed all possible crimes. Also MANU, 167-272 says: If a Shudra arrogantly teaches Brahmins Dharma, the king shall cause hot oil to be poured into his mouth and ears. So much to TOLERANCE and PEACE in Hinduism!!! I am not even talking about Hindutva. |
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galaxy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 70 of 205 ) Periyar, I understand your Angst. I agree with all that you say. There have been and even today in India there are severe attrocities committed by Hindus and obviously claiming licence ,in the name of hinudism and Hindu practices.This is not the Hinduism that Vivekananda or Ramakrishna stood for an practised. Hoodlums have hijacked it. Recently even Swami Saraswati the interlocutor on the Babri tangle used it to justify violence, saying that it is justified by the scriptures. This is what brings HInduism the bad name...the effort to justify killing , saying the Gods did the same...this is no different from any blood thirsty fanatic ..from any religion. Brahmins are Hindus. Brahminical hegemony and violations of others dignity and rights in Indian society will naturally bring a slur to the religion that they claim to be adherents of and claim to be custodians of ! This is natural. To avoid even discussion on this will never bring us closer to a solution. Also , to suggest that we should not look at the past is precisely what our RSS and thier supporters should avoid doing. They are fuelling a spiral... |
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buddha 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 71 of 205 ) periyar well sent message to these brahmin aka rss patriots(PISS!!) just 5o years ago people were made to carry shit on their heads because of these brahmin & the peudobrahmins(the other forward castes & the brain washed shudras).........it has not been possible to neutralise this brahmin hagemony. 2.8% of population of brahmins occupy 48% of officialdom. even god cant help us,as these pimps gaurd him????? |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 72 of 205 ) galaxy, OF COURSE, brahmins are hindus, you halfwitted imbecile. Pay attention (!!!) to what is being said. I said "all hindus are not brahmins" and the only implication of this is "if one is not a hindu, then he/she is not a brahmin". |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 73 of 205 ) buddha, Are you trying to tell me that every hindu is a brahmin?? If so, what is the need for a caste system, you nitwit. Learn to read and parse sentences before you shoot your mouth off, you stupid cretin. When violence is committed against hindus in India, you can bet your ass that the affected hindus are most probably not brahmins, but someone belonging to one of the oppressed classes. No wonder you turds cannot tell who your enemies are if you are so bloody stupid!!! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 74 of 205 ) For all you secular cretins who claimed that Quran preaches tolerance against other religions, here are the verses from the Quran explicitly calling for the death/destruction of non muslims. 5:51: ...not to make friendship with the jews and christians. 2:191: ...kill the disbelievers whereever we find them... 9:5: ..fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (this is being done quite well in India with the help of the pseudo-secular hindu cretins) 9:123: ..murder them and treat them harshly 8:39: ...and fight them until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes allah's in its entirety |
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ashishs 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 75 of 205 ) Satyamev Jayate What a paradox!! the most antinational of all organisations -RSS-calls itself patriotic and is able to convince about this to an emerging section of neo literate,wannabe intellectuals like karapall Everyone would agree that the minimum required to be a good citizen (let alone patriotism),is to fulfill the "fundamental duties"(atricle 51-A)of the constitution.Some of them are: (c)to uphold and protect the sovereignty,unity and integrity of india. (e)to promote harmony and the spirit of common brotherhood amongst all the people of india transcending religious,linguistic and regional or sectional diversities. (f)to value and preserve the rich heritage of our composite culture. (h)to develop the scientific temper,humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform. (i)to safeguard public property and to abjure violence. So if you do not do efforts to fulfill these duties you are not a good citizen but if you work exactly opposite to these arent you antinational?? |
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rishi_s 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 76 of 205 ) Bravo karapall, Lets ponder upon the benevolence and tolerance of our own religion after participating in the regular islam bashing.Ever since the later vedic period the hindu psyche is driven by caste distinctions and supression."MANUSMRITI" is the guiding force.Apart from other disabilities and crualities it inflicted on the SHUDRAS,the book gives some really "barbaric" guidelines to follow.For example- if a brahmin is chanting a shloka in front of other brahmin and if a shudra passing by happens to hear that shloka by mistake then he shall be caught and molten lead be poured into his ears. Is it not better to kill some one in typical "barbaric" muslim way than to torture and subject him to an animal like life all throughout his life(for centuries)?DHOL,GAWAR,SHUDRA AUR NARI YAH SAB TARAN KE ADHIKAARI......hats off to this benevolent attitude.I m sure u havnt red a sigle hindu text since u couldnt take off time from reading quran and finding points to humiliate and abuse muslims.Anyway,I shall also say that manusriti is an exception among all the hindu texts.The vedas,upanishadas and above all "THE GITA" are undoubtably the best books in human history.I suggest you read them.It will help you come out of the abyss of ignorance.Hinduism has been the greatest religion so far but it has recently given a point to islam by breeding fundamentalism.Thanx to the peripheral(pseudo hindu),neo literate,reactionary elements like "karapall" who have started taking the centrestage. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 77 of 205 ) rishi_s, Hey, let's have a contest, dumbass. You repost your crap every time I repost offensive verses from the Quran. The one who posts the last post wins. Okay, here I come.For all you secular cretins who claimed that Quran preaches tolerance against other religions, here are the verses from the Quran explicitly calling for the death/destruction of non muslims. 5:51: ...not to make friendship with the jews and christians. 2:191: ...kill the disbelievers whereever we find them... 9:5: ..fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (this is being done quite well in India with the help of the pseudo-secular hindu cretins) 9:123: ..murder them and treat them harshly 8:39: ...and fight them until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes allah's in its entirety |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 78 of 205 ) rishi_s, Meanwhile, you could tell me more about manu smriti. I am all ears, pal. Defunct and irrelevant religious crap always piques my interest. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 79 of 205 ) there is something wrong with every religion. but there is everything wrong with islam. islam preaches hatred for non-muslims. hatred is the central theme of islam. quran inspires people to be terrorists. islam allures jehadis offerring a number of "virgins" in heaven and many more slaves. slaves in heaven ??? lol.... that is islam. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 80 of 205 ) Do you know why the middle east countries are still so backward ? they are rich countries . then what's wrong ?? the answer is clear and simple .... they are under the curse called ISLAM... wherever ISLAM goes , it brings darkness , ignorance , slaughter and hatred. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 81 of 205 ) imagine what will happen to the world if each and everyone becomes devoted follower of islam ???.... lol.... the world will find itself back in stone age in a record time. all books except the quran will be burnt , just like they burnt all the books of the great library of alaxandria. in the schools only the verses of quran will be taught. other kinds of education will be strictly prohibited . women will get the same respect as the pig does.every man will try to have at least 4 wives when they are alive. they will start murdering each other for getting 100s of beautiful girls as their sexual partners in heaven , this reward they will expect from ALLAH as a reward for their JEHAD........... people will be no different from other animals !!!!! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 82 of 205 ) the truth, You are absolutely correct. The whole world become a mirror image of pakistan or one of the gulf countries. Ruled by cruel and corrupt monarchs who use islam to keep themselves in power. MEanwhile, there will be a shia-sunni world war, with each side insisting it is more correct than the other. |
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joy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 83 of 205 ) Kara bhai, your grasp of geo-politics and possible scenarios not only equals but excels those of Professor Huntington. You da man! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 84 of 205 ) Here's a cucumber, joy. Stuff it up your nether end. _____________ (_____________) |
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joy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 85 of 205 ) Kara bhai, I think you are more well-versed with vaseline-free-auto-drilling. Therefore I will let the honor of this noble action lapse to you. |
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galaxy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 86 of 205 ) In the model saffron state. To distribute swords and Trishuls NOT as 'weapons' but as 'divine instruments used by the Gods ! Swords that are not meant to cut butter but to slit human throats instantaneously. Is not a hijack of religion (when the Gods are used to justify such diabolical designs and physical violence)? There is no doubt that there is a hijack of religion here, however amorphous the religion may be, with a patronising government and a conniving adminstration licensing the hijack as a mock drill for greater things to come! Did I last hear this on this site that these heinous and diabloic behaviour is the exclusive preserve of Islam ????? And .... the hinduism of the Bajrang Dal and the RSS...is different !!!! Using religion to stay in power is not a phenomenon exclusive to the ISlamic world. A B Vajpayee is a good testimony to this ! The RSS goons have proved that they are far superior in that they have the audacity to use the Gods to justify thier hideous subverting nature ! It does sound like we have got escaped Saudi-Taliban venting spleen (not logic) in free speech.. with a 'conscience' that will make the most hardened Wahabi fanatics blush ! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 87 of 205 ) galaxy, Glad to note that you support the saudis and taliban in their game plan, as all the news links from the world just seem to be "venting spleen" to you. Well, what was that you were saying about religion again?? I missed the part about the saudis and taliban being wide-eyed angels getting a bad rap unnecessarily. Could you please repeat that?? Much thanks and brotherly love. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 88 of 205 ) galaxy, you motherfucking imbecile moron. what are the hindus to do, sit by idly when they are attacked. self defense is justified under any law. what happened in gujarat was two groups fighting each other. there were weapons on both sides and there were unlawful activities on both sides. this is bound to occur if you bone head matherchots continue to coddle the communal muslims. shit head liars like you and your friends ashsiss, rishi, vohsendhan etc. are a bunch of monkeys. a strong hand is required to control these fanatics. no one justifies the killing of innocents. one sided sanctimonious bullshit does not make you morally superior. it does not matter whether the congress or the BJP or any other fucking morons are in power. as long as we follow false secularism and coddle muslims, there will be trouble. fuck off you matherchot. |
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galaxy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 89 of 205 ) So, the Muslims of Ahmedabad, had arms and amunitions. They attacked the Hindus in Ahmedabad. Even Modi has not claimed this, you seem to have better resources than the Intelligence agencies, with your Mensa level intelligence !!!! The attacks were at Godhra do you know the topography of Gujarat ? I live there. To associate the Muslims of Ahmedabad with the violence of Godhra, is Guilt by Association. The attack on them were in self defence !!!!! Anywhere in the world other than fanatical circles can the attacks in Ahmedabad be called self defence and ...justified. Which law are you talking about which would recognise the circumstances at Ahmedabad as ripe for self defence !!!! Are you in possession of your faculties ? Your abusive language is sickening. Was this part of your misguided up bringing? Or did you learn this with the RSS history sheeters? Get this clear once and for all ! I condemn the violence and blood letting in Godhra. I do not support the one sided attacks on UNarmed civilians at Ahmedabad, attacks of sickening genocidal proportions , with Governmental connivance. I do not approve of guilt established purely on the basis of the religion of the victims rather than any of their actions. Any government that cannot control this has to go ! |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 90 of 205 ) galaxy, gadhe ka land. suwar ke aulad. the carnage in gujarat is only a precursor to what will happen all over india. i have been warning of this repeatedly. hindus are being driven to the wall. the govt. has forsaken their safety. in kashmir, hindus/sikhs have been hounded out. where is your moral outrage when this happens. it has been 15 years since hindus have been hounded out in kashmir. where is their rehabilitation you cock sucking imbecile. what happened in ahmedabad was retaliation for muslim arrogance and misbehavior. it is not a single incident. it is collective anger over muslim bad behavior. muslims have lost their heads and are driving the country into a civil war (like in 1947). also, the real culprits are the hindu secular bastards who are encouraging this. because muslim mad dogs will behave like mad dogs. that cannot be helped.it is in their blood. but hindu secular scum who are opportunists and cowards are the real problem. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 91 of 205 ) Nice to see a jan sanghi crying for the Sikhs. Who murdered them in Dhelhi.. Germans? The Sangh is a dangerous relic .. able to assume importance in thisn country not because of their ideologal soundness but because of the terribly backward, emotional and regressive society they have helped create. World over their kind are despise. One day hopefully we will mature as a nation and see the evil grouping for what it is. Sanghi's try and rebutt this article http://www.himalmag.com/2002/mwww.ay/essay.htm |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 92 of 205 ) One the onset I am not challenging anyones 'manhood and honour' - the Sangh refrain- but just consider this hypothesis. Christian and Buddhist countries seem to typically have done better on economic and social fronts. The west and the Fareast. Hindhu and Islamic countries have remained terribly backward both socially and economically (Gulf would be Ethiopia if not for oil) There are exceptions but this is a general hypothesis. This could be because of the characteristics of the religion followed. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 93 of 205 ) Both Islam and Mainstream Hindhuism are custom bound, terribly xenophobic and extremely conversion phobic. I feel mainstream hindhuism has missed an opportunity for grown by massacring the other great Indian religion - Buddhism. Hndhuism is also making the mistake of linking political power with spiritual power.. the downfall of the Orthodox Christian empire, the Sharia countries etc |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 94 of 205 ) gandalf, please do not expose your ignorance. it is getting offensive. hinduism is not conversion phobic. 35% of the hindus have converted to islam in india for various reasons (inc. bangla and pak). that does not sound like conversion phobic to me. the muslims and christians are the worst scroundrels when it comes to conversion phobia. muslims will kill for it. past day christians would do the same. today christians will banish them to hell. they have grown up a bit, i guess. remember hindus are devil worshipers. buddhism was not killed by hinduism. it just could not compete with it. hindus were caste ridden and did not want to embrace buddhism, in general. also, early buddhists were strict "vegetarians" and that offended many hindus. low class chutiyas like you who eat beef could never convert to buddhism (i had to say that). that is the real problem. most kshatriyas revolted against Buddhism after Ashoka passed away. his "intense" buddhism was rejected and it died a natural death in india. Buddha himself said that his philosophy of "athiesm" would never find favor in india. athiestic philosophies (buddhism and jainism) did not find much favor among the masses. hindus did not kill them. for your info. jains and buddhists are a part of the hindu mainstream. they are just another indian community. stop being intellectual, it does not suit a low class beef eating monkey from kerala. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 95 of 205 ) gandalf, I see, so groups like SIMI are less dangerous than the sanghis, eh? Your slip is showing, you jihadi-loving fuk. "The west and the Fareast. Hindhu and Islamic countries have remained terribly backward both socially and economically " That is a bogus comparison, you stupid moron. Islamic countries have remained backward EVEN AFTER receiving TRILLIONS of dollars of oil money for many decades. India has progressed significantly since independence; there is work to be done but the acheivements to date are nothing to be pooh-poohed about. Remember that the next time you apply you apply your tongue to some white dude's asshole. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 96 of 205 ) gandalf: "Both Islam and Mainstream Hindhuism are custom bound, terribly xenophobic and extremely conversion phobic." I see, so christians are not conversion phobic?? I am sure Pat Robertson would agree with you, asshole. Also, are you trying to tell me that all the xenophobia in western countries is because of non christians?? Did you stop to think a little before you wrote the above gem? you stupid cretin. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 97 of 205 ) gandalf: "This could be because of the characteristics of the religion followed." Alternatively, it could also be because you are a stupid asshole who cannot distinguish between correlation and causation, and insist on drawing causal relations where none exist. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 98 of 205 ) Change is permanent karapal.. it is best if we in India dont react to societal weaknesses though emotional aoutbursts.. but then you and lowman are molested emotional wrecks so I'll pass |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 99 of 205 ) Lowman: "also, early buddhists were strict "vegetarians" and that offended many hindus" ... YO!!!!!!! When will you cure your 'foot in mouth' disease. Please answer these questions: 1. Will you accept that today non-vegies are offended by Hindhu vegiterianism 2. Are we going against our culture by being veggie 3. Are you drinking again? |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 100 of 205 ) gandalf, matherchot, your ignorance is only surpassed by your stupidity. fucking hindu hating bastard, don't twist vegetarianism into something it is not. stupid imbecile, sister fucking moron hinduism does not prohibit meat eating, nor does it promote vegtarianism. it leaves people to choose what they want to do. if you are intellectual (which you are not) and want to be spiritual, it recommends vegetarianism (satwik). if you are a soldier it recommends that you eat meat (rajasic). if you are a low class ape like you it recommends putrified food (tamasic). i hope that puts some sense into your minute fucking brain. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 101 of 205 ) gandalf matherchot, and here is another gem from you. buddhist and christian countries are doing better than muslim and hindu countries. you fucking idiot, christian countries are not doing better, "european" countries are doing better. in general, the northern countries have dominated southern countries thruout history, when there was an interaction (even within europe). the west has achieved more because of their greco-roman culture (work ethic), not christain culture. there is nothing wrong with christianity per se. it is a great religion, but your hindu hating putrified brain needs fixing. what do you think the christian converts in africa are achieving - AIDs epidemics. fucking idiot, it is an undeniable fact that over the past 2000 years the light skinned races have achieved more than the dark skinned races. the dark skinned races have been dominated by light skinned races. this is a statement of fact. it is neither good nor bad nor justifiable. it is a simple fact. the northern asians have always dominated southern asians. infact, the people of SE asia are a mixture of northern asians and aborigines. fucking stupid hindu hating moron, get a brain transplant. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 102 of 205 ) How can I be Hindu hating.. I hate you but not Hinduism. Your light skinned race thing is the gem.. so you are in addition to being a religious bigot are a racist too. So we indians are doomed because we are not white?.. or Hey light skinned people whould rule over India. Great.. then you must be dying for Sonia G to win the next elections |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 103 of 205 ) gandalf chutiya, i am not a racist. i am pointing out facts. i said so in my posting. facts are often bitter. i don't like or dislike sonia gandhi. if sonia becomes PM it is not because of people like me. i do not support the congress. that should be obvious. OK. grow up. i stand by my statements, and i know they are controversial and will be disliked by many. i am speaking the truth - in the past 2000 years the europeans have achieved more than others. that is a plain and simple fact. india is not doomed because the people are not white. india is disadvantaged because there are too many imbeciles like you and your monkey cohorts like tathagat. apes like jyothi basu your master. get rid of jehadis and communist monkeys, and we will be OK. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 104 of 205 ) Lowman.. if you are not a racist you are a king sized block head. Obviously you will be disliked by many.. dont hide under the skirts of heroism, it because you dont have a tenable position. What do you mean that Europeans are ahead for the last 2000 years. The East has been overtaken by the west only in the last 800 years. And lastly.. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 105 of 205 ) "west has achieved more because of their greco-roman culture (work ethic), " Idiot, you are basing history on Olympic wrestling categories.. Greaco Roman my ass. The western Civilisation is drawn from the Helenic and Selucid civilisations. Suggest you read Arnold Toynbee - A study of history. I have never heard of a "greaco Roman " work ethic.. Have heard of a Protestant Work ethic though. I know you are a smart mongrel, but suggest you stick to fetching, sittinig and shaking hands rater than regurgitating words you have no understanding off |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 106 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Gandalf : know you are a smart mongrel, but suggest you stick to fetching, sittinig and shaking hands rater than regurgitating words you have no understanding off Hats off to your use of language. Couldnt have been done better. Luvvman : You pathetic waste of human flesh. When are you going to let yourself take a holiday and give us some respite from your inept, inaccurate and horribly comical messages. I suggest that you apply to the VHP high command to send you across to Pakistan to round up a few army regulars. We'll see how long you last. Reading your messages makes the wait for the next Sienfeld so much more bearable. A disgrace to all humans; thats what you are. But the children who grow up with hard things stuffed up their behind arent supposed to be normal are they ? |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 107 of 205 ) gandalf: "Change is permanent karapal.. it is best if we in India dont react to societal weaknesses though emotional aoutbursts.. but then you and lowman are molested emotional wrecks so I'll pass" Ho ho ho. So you do recognize that you are a brainless cretin who cannot make a valid argument to save his life. I can see your above face-saving post was meant to, well, save your battered face, and being the nice guy that I am, I am going to let it slide. Make sure you boast to your friends about how much more civilized you are than all the damn uncivilized non urban indians...I am sure they will be impressed. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 108 of 205 ) Karappal.. I really try to give you a hearing but you really are having problems communicating. Can you read through your posts once before actually posting. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 109 of 205 ) gandalf, Other than randomly flaming me, you have said little that warrants a rational and sober response on my part. I refuse to respond rationally to insults and other sarcastic putdowns. I would rather flame the crap out of people who insist on doing that. |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 110 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Why the hell are you blabbering so much bull shit all the time. Your fellow Sanghis and family doesnt give much attention to your face is it ? Oh.. How I forget that your behind is the site of thier exclusive attention, given that the Sanghis arent supposed to marry and remain celibate. What a way to serve the nation, by off loading their demented sexual fantasies on minors like you and the unfortunate women in Gujarat. Way to go brother Jim, making good for all the virgins you wont get in heaven, while youre on earth. Its people like you and Bin Laden who make this planet such a dangerous place to live in. I wish your parents would have shown you some love instead of, umm.. you know what ! |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 111 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Coming back to the topic.. There is nothing wrong with any religion, but the followers are the source of much concern. Jehadis, Sanghis, Akalis - All these elements use religion with hardline hues to intimidate their co-religionists to act in a certain way, failing which they are characterised as weak and unfaithful. Simultaneously, they cast aspersions on other religions and make them out to be the enemy. This must stop and people should see through this. Critical Thinking must be inculcated into every Indian child to rise above the nonsense perpetrated by thier ancestors. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 112 of 205 ) Exactly Jbindra, all the discussion on the board seems to strongly bring out the need for reason rather than emotional nonsence. And if there is on good thing, it makes me really view my responsiblity to propogate this line of thought seriouosly |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 113 of 205 ) jbindra: "This must stop and people should see through this. Critical Thinking must be inculcated into every Indian child to rise above the nonsense perpetrated by thier ancestors." ho ho ho, this congenital cretin jbindra seems to think that he actually possesses "critical thought"!!! What a bloody laugh riot. This stupid sack of shit jbindra was just recently exhorting Indians to get nuked by pakistan and then demonstrate restraint. This single thought alone betrays the fact that jbindra is many slices short of a full pizza. Enough said. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 114 of 205 ) jbindra, Just because you are too stupid to comprehend what I say does not mean that I am not saying anything valid. For starters, you have demonstrated that you are a pathetic, lying sack of shit who wants to advice indians that they should not do what is in their best interests, just like the US state department. So, turds like you should understand that you are not speaking for India's interests before you go on masturbating about how "critical thinking" is one of your strong points. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 115 of 205 ) jbindra: "There is nothing wrong with any religion, but the followers are the source of much concern." No shit? sherlock! A religion is defined by its followers today (and not by the behavior of the followers in the past), a simple fact that seems to have bypassed your critical mind. This is why it is important to compare the behavior of followers of various religions in a statistical sense, and keep an eye on abnormal statistics, such as the number of terrorists bred by islam which vastly outnumbers the number of such terrorists produced by ANY OTHER RELIGION. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 116 of 205 ) jbindra, I have no craving for attention from anyone, sanghis or otherwise. This might be hard to understand for a guy like you who seems to measure his self-worth in terms of the number of "civilization" points white people might give you once you "demonstrate restraint" even when your very survival is at stake. So you would do well to stop projecting you psychological inadequacies on others, you snivelling heap of dehydrated parrot droppings. |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 117 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Oh so statistics eh ? If I quote to you that X number of Hindus massacres Sikhs in 1984 as compared to Y number of peace loving Sikhs, does that mean that the entire Hindu religion is fanatical ? So 2000 Muslims were killed and 58 Hindus. A ratio of 66:1. Meaning thereby that on an average a Hindu is 66 times more violent and criminal than a Muslim. Your metrics for "fanatical evaluation" are brilliant. It is indeed God's great gift to India that people like you are in a minority, even in the larger Hindu population. My friend; Might is NOT right. What is right is based on a resolve end conflict than to conflagarate it, which you love to do and so do your parent organizations like the VHP, RSS etc. Their very survival depends on the propagation of hate. |
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Sameer28 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 118 of 205 ) Jim Karapall, My goodness all this time I was thinking you are a hundu!! I should have known you are a Christain missionary! so you always quote part of the quran(not complete) to mislead people as the full quote will lead people to understand why the quote is there in the first place. Christain missionary who can play such a dirty game of devide and rule, hindus and muslims have always had riots and then it has always settled down after some time, this time around it will be the same, yes it has been much on larger scale. But the response also has been on Better scale except for a few RSS bhaktas who have insisted that the pogrom in Gujurat was ok. You dirty Bastart, you have been exposed so next time you want to say, quote something which is nice in Bible, if you can find something there!! |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 119 of 205 ) Sameer28, what separates you from karapall?.. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 120 of 205 ) sameer: "you always quote part of the quran(not complete) to mislead people as the full quote will lead people to understand why the quote is there in the first place. " I shall post those verses in full if that will yank your crank, asshole. I will also provide links to Quran transalations which tell the whole story. HAppy now? Gandalf, what separates you from a sanctimonious dipshit who cant make a point to save his life? |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 121 of 205 ) jbindra: "So 2000 Muslims were killed and 58 Hindus. A ratio of 66:1. Meaning thereby that on an average a Hindu is 66 times more violent and criminal than a Muslim." And did you jump to that conclusion??!!! Please explain. Jeez, you are one hell of a stupid bastard. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 122 of 205 ) jbindra: "Oh so statistics eh ? If I quote to you that X number of Hindus massacres Sikhs in 1984 as compared to Y number of peace loving Sikhs, does that mean that the entire Hindu religion is fanatical ?" No, it just means you are moron who does not understand when and where one must quote statistics. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 123 of 205 ) 2000:58 = 66:1 ?????, hahahahhaha ... Jbindra , would u mind taking a class in Mathematics ??? |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 124 of 205 ) We shall overcome. thetruth : Good observation. I did make a mistake. It should be 34:1. Well, to err is human they say. |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 125 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : . This is why it is important to compare the behavior of followers of various religions in a statistical sense, and keep an eye on abnormal statistics, such as the number of terrorists bred by islam which vastly outnumbers the number of such terrorists produced by ANY OTHER RELIGION. Just to refresh your memory about statistics. Well, I just did an analysis of the sample space of religiously motivated criminal activity here. So you contend your use of misplaced stats is OK while if someone else twists things a bit, its a grave sin ? |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 126 of 205 ) As usual, you guys are so moronic and evil that you try to obfuscate jbindras point through ridicoulous hair splitting |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 127 of 205 ) jbindra, yes it is true "to err is human". but fucking asshole you are not human marxist matherchot. when did you last suck a mullah's dick. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 128 of 205 ) jbindra: "So you contend your use of misplaced stats is OK while if someone else twists things a bit, its a grave sin ?" The difference between you and me is that I use statistics to provide indicators of where reality is heading, and you use it as a crutch to support your weak and emotional arguments, but that is not the point. Let us analyze your crappy statement: "If I quote to you that X number of Hindus massacres Sikhs in 1984 as compared to Y number of peace loving Sikhs, does that mean that the entire Hindu religion is fanatical ?" Firstly, the "secular" congress party massacred your sikh brethren, not the "hindus"; I am sure you knew that but khalistani assholes like you have their own compulsions, I am sure. Secondly, you are comparing the number of peace loving sikhs to violent hindus, which is not even statistics -- it is just gobbledygook which demonstrates that you have no idea of the elementary details of statistics and using statistical data (and it does take some expertise to understand statistical data in order to see problems with the numbers thrown out). |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 129 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Cut the crap idiot. Who cares if they were Congress Hindus or BJP Hindus. BD Hindus or LSD Hindus. They murdered in the name of religion and were members of one community. Their justification of the violence arose from them being Hindu and being oppressed and their interests being compromised, which was absolute falsity. I am sure you dont even know the formula to find the mean or median of a sample set of data. Trying to analyse statistics. You forget that Sanghis teach you to rape and kill not do math. |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 130 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Luvvman : Go jerk off before you come and talk nonsense here. It seems that if you were to have it your way you would maintain an immaculate collection of dicks to suck on yourself and with your fellow Sanghi brothers. Other people have better things to do than analysing dicks in life. But then the word dickhead wasnt coined for nothing. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 131 of 205 ) bindra: "Cut the crap idiot. Who cares if they were Congress Hindus or BJP Hindus. BD Hindus or LSD Hindus. They murdered in the name of religion and were members of one community" Aaah, I see. Now it makes more sense why you made the comment that the BJP was responsible for the slaughter of sikhs in 1984. So according to you all hindus are BJP followers, eh?? Would you say that Mani Shankar Iyer who is clearly a hindu is also a BJP supporter who went around killing in the name of relgiion?? Do explain. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 132 of 205 ) jbindra: "Their justification of the violence arose from them being Hindu and being oppressed and their interests being compromised, which was absolute falsity." Asshole, the ahmedabad riots happened AFTER muslims killed ram sevaks who did nothing more that pass through godhra in a train. "secularists" like you were blaming these ram sevaks (the victims) for getting killed. Apparently their chanting hindu religious slogans was offensive to muslims who had every right to kill these hindus for chanting hindu slogans in their neighbourhood. Excuse me if I find such behavior reprehensible, even though you believe that such behavior is acceptable. People like you should first try to explain why hindus are always blamed for religious violence by pseudo-secular assholes, never mind if the hindus are victims or the perpetrators of violence. Muslims, on the other hand, are apparently always angels NO MATTER how much violence and mayhem they cause in the country under the support of guidance of the "secular" crowd in India. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 133 of 205 ) jbindra: "I am sure you dont even know the formula to find the mean or median of a sample set of data. " I believe I learnt how to calculate mean, median and mode in seventh standard. However, I must admit that my skills at regression analysis and correlation analysis is a little weak, but maybe you could provide me with references on these topics. |
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ashishs 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 134 of 205 ) Satyamev Jayate
DEGENERATION OF THE HINDU INTELLECT:The saffron brigade (pseudo hindu)leaders especially the third rate intellectuals of RSS claim that "Ayodhya is to hindus what mecca is to muslims".Lets have a comparison: Hajj is one of the five pillars of islam and every muslim is bound to go to Mecca for hajj once in his life time.The same is not true for hindus w.r.t. ayodhya.Its not a pilgrimage place for hindus.No hindu text makes it compulsory to visit ayodhya once in a life.Infact,ayodhya doesnt even figure in the list of top ten holy places of hindus while mecca is the holiest place of muslims.Interestingly,modern ayodhya owes it`s popularity more to babri masjid than to Maryada Purushottam Ram-courtsey sangh parivar.Thehajj equivalent of hindus is CHAAR DHAM YATRA which comprises Badrinath,Kedarnath,Puri and Dwarka.The next in importance are Amarnath and Kailash-Mansarovar.The Sangam in Allahabad and the other venues of KUMBH MELA viz.Ujjain,Nasik and Hardwar are other important places of hindu pilgrimage. This is a part of the general reactionary mentality which is been bred in the hindu mainstream by the extremists.It is taking a heavy toll of the hindu logic and rationale.The hitherto broadminded and progressive hindu community is turning into a reactionary,parochial and irrational lot. Some other funny logics are: |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 135 of 205 ) Karapall: Post 133: I ams sure you would find any form of analysis tough, but to figure out the regression part, just look in the mirror.. or read your posts |
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ashishs 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 136 of 205 ) Satyamev Jayate
Degeneration of Hindu Intellect-Part 2:The sanghi bigots cry that the "pseudo seculars" dont condemn the killings and displacement of pundits in Kashmir with an equal degree as they condemn the Gujarat massacre:The pea sized brains of these people naturally fail to see the difference.In Kashmir,the violence is perpetrated by foreign trained terrorists with a political rather than communal motive.They are separatists,just like the sikhs of punjab who killed hindus in the 80s.They are a menace to the Indian government and the people as well.They treat alike the hindus and muslims who come in their way.It was obvious by Gilani`s murder recently.The government is now effectively dealing with the problem by bringing pakistan to the brink of war. While in Gujarat the government itself is hand in glove with the culprits of a communal pogrom.Atleast it is not showing the same zealousness by threatening the RSS or VHP with a nuclear attack. So which case deserves more strict condemnation,Kasmir or Gujrat?In the former case the government is doing its best to protect the people but the foreign trained terrorists oversmart it at times while in the latter the government is not only apatethic towards the victims but actively supporting and sheltering the culprits. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 137 of 205 ) ashishs, chutiyta.gilani was not murdered (he should have been, he is a fucking bastard). your stupid ignorance is mind boggling. muslim cock sucking matherchot. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 138 of 205 ) ashishs, You are basically arguing that Ayodhya would not be popular among hindus but for BAbri Masjid. One needs only a handful of neurons to figure out that such is not the case, but then clearly it is unclear whether you have more than a handful of neurons in your thick skull to complete this rather trivial train of thought. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 139 of 205 ) ashishs: "In Kashmir,the violence is perpetrated by foreign trained terrorists with a political rather than communal motive" Is that so?? Is that why all the kashmiri muslims gladly watched and in fact assisted in throwing all the kashmiri hindus and buddhists out of Kashmir?? Just for those actions the kashmiris deserves all the violence and death that has been heaped on them for the past few decades. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 140 of 205 ) ashishs, Gilani is alive and well in Ranchi, as every newspaper in India will tell you. If you cannot get such obviously simple facts right, how much credence do you think readers should place on your other tall claims?? |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 141 of 205 ) ashishs is a muslim with a hindu name. As usual , we can expect nothing good from a muslim. go on committing all kind of crimes , and still feel very religious about it , that is islam.to every crime committed by a hindu , there u can find at least 1000 crimes by the "devoted" muslims. muslims' hatred for non-muslims is creating all the problems in the world today. 1948, Pakistan has 23% Hindus , now they are less than 1.5%. Lahore was a city with Sikh majority. After partition , "devoted" muslims in Pakistan , killed all the Sikhs in Lahore. Islamic govt in Pakistan took part in the Islamic slaughter of Sikhs. Still muslims all over the world , feel proud about the islamic massacre of Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 142 of 205 ) WHY OUR SECULARS DON'T TALK ABOUT KASHMIR ? WHAT ABOUT THE SYSTEMATIC ETHNIC CLEANSING OF HINDUS/SIKHS IN KASHMIR ? COME ON , SECULARIST SCOUNDRELS , TALK ABOUT IT. OTHERWISE WE WILL ALWAYS CAST OUR VOTE FOR THE "COMMUNAL" FORCES WHO OPPOSE THE TERRORISTS IN KASHMIR. |
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ashishs 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 143 of 205 ) Satyamev Jayate THIS IS FOR THE RSS I plead to the fanatic pals here to read it with an open mind,shedding their hangups. These pseudo intellectual,pseudo hindu bastards have nothing to do with the nation.These communal bigots are preaching hate ever since early 20th century-right from the cock sucker Hedgewar to the mother fucker sudarshan.They were the biggest obstacle in the indian national movement and delayed our independence by atleast 20 years.These antinationals licked the boots of british viceroys just to get a favour against the muslims.They betrayed the indian masses who were fighting out there facing bullets and lathis.And now these treacherous bastards claim to be patriotic.Till date their evil agenda is undiluted.They have been able to poison the minds of neo literate wannabe intellectual youths (who have been spewing venom here in this forum) and have turned them into frankenstein monsters who are set loose to destroy the communal harmony and carry out the organisations malicious agenda of "nation breaking".These are the products of their brain washing,bigotizing,saffron assembly line factories called "sarasvati shishu mandirs".I plead all the fanatics here to come out of your illusion with them for the sake of hinduism and the nation at large. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 144 of 205 ) Dear Ashish , So "India could perfectly maintain communal harmony , when Hindus are butchered ? " , isn't that ur view ? Not a single word from ur dirty mouth rgarding the ethnic cleansing of Hindus/Sikhs in Kashmir ? R u inspired by the Pakistanis who has robbed of every breath of lives from Hindus in Pakistan ?.... Dear Ashsis we all have brains, don't come here to educate us. We know the secret of ur selective silence.... Why loathe RSS so much , they never danced with joy when Pakistan won a cricket match against India ????? |
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ashishs 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 145 of 205 ) Satyamev Jayate I heard a fanatic blurt: "ashishs is a muslim with a hindu name. As usual , we can expect nothing good from a muslim" This is a very dangerous tandency which I have been warning of for a long.If the right wingers rule the roost,life will be like hell for the moderate and liberal hindus who fortunately still form the wafer thin majority among hindus.If anyone doesnt fall in line with the bigot version of hindutva, he will be immediately branded as an anti hindu,an anti national or a muslim(Paki agent).Religious persecutions will be the order of the day and there will be thousands of Taslima Nisreens and Salman Rushdies in India. Even at this point of time,when the nation is not talibanised completely,the level of intolerance is perilous.If I dare pull the mask off the RSS' face I must be a muslim!!! Dear "the truth", FYI, I m born to sanadhya brahman parents but I dont identify myself with any religion or community.I m not sure whether I could say this openly once the hindu taliban,the RSS-VHP, takes over. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 146 of 205 ) The truth in all his |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 147 of 205 ) The Truth .. you repeat the same crap like a broken record. Whining, complaining, hating... Did you have a domineering sister? |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 148 of 205 ) We shall overcome. the truth : Truly, it seems that you have had an elder in the family who suffered from the Electra and Edipice complex and victimized you therein leaving indelible after effects on your mental capabilities. We can only hope that someday you can put forward a coherent well reasoned arguement instead of blabbertalk. |
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ulmo3 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 149 of 205 ) The Danger to Hinduism is from within not from outside. It is the RSS, BJP and its set of "Hindu Talibans" who will pull down Hinduism from within. If they are not checked they will end up propagating a religion which is very similar to Talibans version of Islam. Intolerance, Prejudice and the use of force to prevent dissension. In other say by by to democracy and all these forums you have been discussing this stuff in. |
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thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 150 of 205 ) jabindra and ur gang may keep on shouting like our secular mulyams and lalloos. But u can't alter truths. Why shy away discussing Kashmir ? I have some questions. KINDLY Try to answer them ( Will u ? Most probably u "liberal and seculars will turn SIGMUN FREUD PART-II again. ) 1. Why in India Hindu God/Goddess are allowed to painted naked by M*****F***** Hussain ? Why M*****F*****s don't dare to paint "prophet" muhammad naked ? Will u be still praising his "work" once he paints the "prophet" naked ? ...... 2. SATANIC VERSES IS BANNED , RUSHDIE IS DESPISED , MF is WORSHIPPED by our "liberals" . Why do our liberals use different yardsticks ? ....... 3. We talk about equality. Muslims are patriotic lots. Then why do they oppose uniform civil code in India ?....... 4. Why r all the Muslim-majority countries theocratic ? |
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rav666 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 151 of 205 ) thetruth, i tried to answer your questions without turing into Sigmund Freud: 1. 'M*** F*****' Hussain is only following the age-old tradition followed in our temples. That way, he is actually honouring the Hindu culture. Islam is a religion which prohibits idols / pictures etc. So Prophet Mohammed is not depicted in pictures. I for one, wouldn't appreciate a naked picture of any Prophet let alone praising the creator of that picture. 2. When Satanic Verses was banned, it was the liberals who opposed the ban in full strength. Liberals 'worship' creative people and do not distinguish between Salman Rushdie and MF Hussain. (While MF is busy worshipping Madhuris and Tabus) 3. Yes, there should be equality. But there cannot be uniformity since we also have to contend with diversity. Did you know that a man has to pay tax if he earns more that Rs.50K per annum, whereas a woman need not pay tax up to Rs.80K per annum? 4. To the best of my knowledge, the following muslim majority countries are not theocratic - Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Maldives. Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt etc. were not originally theocratic before 'cutural revolutions' took place in these countries. Saharan muslim majority countries are not theocratic, though they could be serving as a refuge to terrorist elements. They may be despotic (i.e. ruled by a military general etc.) but that has nothing to do with religion. Next time, number each question so that it is easy to answer. Many small questions within a question are leading to confusion. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 152 of 205 ) ashishs: "life will be like hell for the moderate and liberal hindus who fortunately still form the wafer thin majority among hindus." Youu are hardly a "moderate liberal hindu". You are hindu-baiting communist motherfucker, as is clear from your rhetoric. I would understand it if the hindus if they wanted to roast the bigoted likes of hindu hating assholes like you over a slow fire. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 153 of 205 ) rav666, "So Prophet Mohammed is not depicted in pictures. " Firstly, no one wants to see the Goatherd fuk mohammed naked, including hindus I am sure. Secondly, what makes you think hindu gods are depicted naked by hindus?? (if we go by your defense of why hussain drew saraswati naked) If not, why does this asshole hussain thnk that he does not need to be sensitive to hindus?? Is is because of the fatwas muslims would place on his head for blasphemy if he painted a hairy young mohammed?? If so, I guess the hindu right-wing has learnt some useful (for them) lessons from the muslims. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 154 of 205 ) rav666: "When Satanic Verses was banned, it was the liberals who opposed the ban in full strength" That is a load of horseshit. The left wing was very supportive of the ban on satanic verses. Sorry, I cannot provide links because those were days before the internet. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 155 of 205 ) rav66: "Yes, there should be equality. But there cannot be uniformity since we also have to contend with diversity." WHY THE HELL can you not have uniform civil codes just because people are diverse?? It seems to work well the world over even when people are as diverse as they want to be, but geniuses like you surely have big problems with reality. Let us see now, you are the same dork who complained a while back about how law and order sucks in India. So pragmatic steps like uniform civil code to increase the speed of justice is secondary compared to some vague donkey dung about "diversity" of Indian polity. (you still have not specified why exactly diversity matters when we are talking about the law) THE WHOLE POINT of a law is to streamline behavior, not to allow a free for all based on a sensitive reading of which village you came from. |
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fayaz 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 156 of 205 ) the truth -- I hope jbindra answers your questions, but let me allay some of your concerns. 1. Why in India Hindu God/Goddess are allowed to painted naked by MF Hussain ? He isnt allowed to do that. He painted something at home and when it went on exhibition, he was censured for it. Perhaps his inspiration was drawn from the Khajuraho temples and many such where goddesses were not depicted as being well clothed. The idea is that pictorial representation of Hindu deities is permitted and there are precedents wherein they are not clothed. It does not necessarily imply an insult and erotic subscription by Hussain, but perhaps an overstatement and misuse of his artistic license. 2. Why MFs don't dare to paint "prophet" muhammad naked ? Will u be still praising his "work" once he paints the "prophet" naked It is no mystery that if he was to do that, he would be writing his own death warrant. But apart from the fact. Imagery is explicitly banned in Islam. You will see that most Islamic art and architecture follows geometric representation instead of pictorial representation which is popular in roman and western styles of art. Thus, there are no records of how the prophet (pbuh) looked like in the nude or clothed. Also I dont think this would have much appeal, given that by instinct nubile women attract more attention than exhibitionist males. 3. SATANIC VERSES IS BANNED , RUSHDIE IS DESPISED , MF is WORSHIPPED by our "liberals" . Why do our liberals use different yardsticks ? Have you read the Satanic verses ? If that book was to be paraphrased for a Hindu God like Rama, he would be made out to be a bastard, a dog, an adulterer and someone with a loose moral character. There is a subtle difference between explicitly villifying against someone who is worshipped or is given great importance and painting a portrait. Atal Behari isnt a God, but how very indignant are the Indian people with the Time article ? Think how people would feel if you wrote the same about their God or prophet. In India, MFH was condemned but many people who saw that very same picture in UK (of Indian origin) didnt share the same views as their Indian counterparts. Why ? There are different standards of acceptability in different regions of the world. 4. We talk about equality. Muslims are patriotic lots. Then why do they oppose uniform civil code in India ? 'They' do not oppose the Uniform Civil Code. The code would be a most welcome gesture to the Indian justice system. But what is the reason that you are so very vehement on having a UCL ? Is it not that you are piqued by the fact that Christians and Muslims are allowed to have different laws ? If your reasons and intention was to support a similar system of legislation to make our democracy more viable, people would be more embracing of the UCL. Your reasons must be as moral as the measures you propose. 5. Why r all the Muslim-majority countries theocratic ? Please take a lesson or two in geography and civics. Malaysia and Indonesia are some of the many muslim majority democracies. btw : if you do not realise, a theocratic state is like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia where anything not ascribing to the major belief is a complete no-no. Thanks for reading this long post. And I am learning HTML (which you must have surely noticed =) |
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asif 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 157 of 205 ) I would like to state this at the outset that majority of the hindus in India are not communal, inspite of best efforts of sangh parivar. They are a silent majority and thanks to gujarat events, thay have realised that sangh parivar have only one agenda which is of propagating hate towards all minorities, and they have begun to assert themselves. The bunglings in defence deals and on border amply demonstrate that sangh parivar care very little about India's future and are only capable of harming it's intrests. |
thetruth 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 158 of 205 )
FAYAZ !!!!! U r learning HTML ... I am GREEN with envy.
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 159 of 205 ) Bravo Rav666. I am a little confused here reg. the stand of "protectors of Hinduims like karapall and thetruth". Once we go past you rants and whines, what do you stand for. 1. What is this sudden 'life or death' concern about a uniform code.. how does it affect you?. IS your stand that there should be complete equality of laws and opportunity for every Indian? 2. Regarding the whine about "secularists", Is your stand that India should follow the least common denominator of behaviour. eg. are you saying that because Hindus got affected in Kash., Mslms should get kicked out in Gujarat?. Or is your stand that Minorities can only live in this country if they are subservient to your line of thinking?. Could you clarify |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 160 of 205 ) Asif: You may be an ostrich is you dont see that majority of Indians dont care about Murder, rape and religious cleansing. Only so called 'secularist' came out strongly against Guj. I think Muslims and minorities will inexorably will get screwed here. Sad but lets be very clear on what is happening and not pull wool over our eyes |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 161 of 205 ) Karapall: Do you want to see Gods and Goddesses and animals in amazing threesomes, Two men humping a Godess while She does a third?.. Its all there in halebid, karnataka or forget about more famous temples. Is your really filthy language due to your shame? |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 162 of 205 ) The parochial attitude and tenor of the so-called "moderate" indian muslims fayaz and asif. Firstly, their stunning silence on rampant islamic extremism in India, while focussing on hindu fundamentalism is a clear indicator of where their agenda lies. One thing is for sure: it has nothing to do with communal harmony nonwithstanding all the bullshit they have been pouring on this message board about how peace and harmony isimportant for India. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 163 of 205 ) Gandalf: "Do you want to see Gods and Goddesses and animals in amazing threesomes, Two men humping a Godess while She does a third?.. Its all there in halebid, karnataka or forget about more famous temples." Personally, I would rather see depictions of love and sex in a religion rather than mindless exhortation of violence against non followers as in islam. But then, you might prefer the opposite, so your mileage may vary. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 164 of 205 ) As for my filthy language, grow up and deal with it, pal. Either ignore it or retaliate, but quit whining like fuking pansy. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 165 of 205 ) gandalf: "I think Muslims and minorities will inexorably will get screwed here." Not just in India, pal. With their increasingly pro-terrorist stances, muslims all over the world will be discriminated against if and when they orchestrate the follow up to September 11. |
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asif 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 166 of 205 ) My point is that majority feels bad about gujarat pogrom but is silent.The media gives all the sound bites to the radicals and communalists. But there is a hope that in general elections they will finally show BJP the door for all it's bunglings. And as far as muslims and minorities are concerned they will surely get screwed if they don't get their act together to face the sangh parivar |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 167 of 205 ) asif: "And as far as muslims and minorities are concerned they will surely get screwed if they don't get their act together to face the sangh parivar" There is no better way for you muslims to improve the popularity of the sangh parivar, if that is your goal. The sangh parivar derives all its support from people who have personally experienced muslim communalism over the years. The more confrontational the muslims get, the stronger the sangh parivar's influence on hindus will become. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 168 of 205 ) Karapall: HAHAHHA. I love the one about bad language. Do you really think that the MB views your writing as a challenge?. You very convenient, entertaining joker.. what is there to retaliate agains a poor sad jumping jack?. Hilarious!!.. You must have been thinking taht people dread opening their Mb because the Killer Karapal would be waiting with a killer post hahahhhahahahhaha. God.. you are a real clown! |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 169 of 205 ) gandalf, I am glad that your puny mind derives some mirth from my posts. Now, shoo. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 170 of 205 ) gandalf, stupid asshole. so now gods and godesses are humping at humpi. wow. how intellectual. so you wanted to annoy a few hindus and show how backward they are. fucking asshole if gods and godesses are humping and having fun what is the problem. it is life, you matherchot. or do you think hindus should be hateful like the "muslim matherchots" or ignorant and backward like the "orthodox christians". chutiya, if adam and eve were the first man and woman then all people (christians) are fucking incestuous bastards, they are fucking their own mothers and sisters, isn't it. has it ever occured to you how bankrupt these hateful and stupid semitic religions are. god made the world in 7 days about 6000 years ago. you want us to believe in such stupid idiotic things and that the world is flat (christain teachings). fucking idiot, hindus don't have a problem if you want to believe in such bullshit. they want to be left alone to believe in their own bullshit. your bullshit is not better than hindu bullshit. ok cocksucking matherchot. if you want to believe that a perverted, pedophile, uneducated moron was the last prophet sent by god, that is your fucking problem. don't force other people to believe in such fucked up bullshit. stinking asshole. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 171 of 205 ) asif, imbecile. the muslims in india definitely should be fucking screwed for their behavior. the matherchots are always creating trouble. in america every fucking indian muslim would be thrown in jail if they behaved as they do in india. yes, they should be fucking screwed. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 172 of 205 ) asif, if the muslims don't mend their ways in india then i recommend more and more "gujarats". muslims have to understand that fire will be fought with fire. "eent ka jawab pathar se dena hoga". i recommend that all hindus take up arms and defend themselves against muslim atrocities. any jehadi bastard pro pakistani bastard should be summarily executed. kill all "gaddars" where ever you find them. allah is merciful, allah is great. allah wil provide virgins to hindus who kill jehadis. verily is allah great. |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 173 of 205 ) We shall overcome. luvvman : Need I say what a rotten piece of human flesh you are. Do have one of your Sanghi brothers put up a condolence for you when you die, on this message board. I will need to crack open a few coconuts that day and thank God for cleaning away some filth from here. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 174 of 205 ) jbindra: I suppose that you mean "we shall overcome our politically correct communist idiocy" when you say "we shall overcome". Just thought I would clarify things a little. |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 175 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Well it would need an creature possessing a brain of the proportions of a peanut to ask this question. It means that we (Indians) will overcome all the destructive and covert forces against and amongst us to be a nation of reckoning. Now that you have understood, please help the cause by committing suicide. |
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galaxy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 176 of 205 ) Jbindra, pl. don't advise suicide to the commie imbecile Karapall without finding ways to dispose of the remains of this piece of nuclear waste. I would rather suggest he find his habitation in Pakistan or China.This would be taking care of two of our problems the domestic 'hate lobby' and cunning neighbours. This way we will have peace in India and he would have found his 'niche'. Jbindraji the problem,when you respond to the lying, abusive Karapall is that he attempts to railroad the discussion off track. I have decided to use the filters on this jerk of a joke, Karapall and his anthology of Krap. This way am not missing much and can keep to the discussion thread. My apologies that am moving away from the discussion thread . Any day for me a Gandalf or a rav or a sal or a tathaghat or a lehar or a jbindra even if I do not fully agree with the views. This ignoramus was blaberring about foreign policy, nuclear doctrine,CTBT and its clauses (which till today is not effective). Never responded after it was pointed out ! The only truthfull statement from this apology for a human being is that 'Advani is like the Pope..' The only pope close to Advanis fraudulent mix of religion and politics was..Alexander VI. That we know after the demolition of the Babri Masjid don't we ? Do we need a reminder ? |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 177 of 205 ) Actually Galaxy yours is the most sensible option. I guess though many of us have come to regard Karapall and Lowman as the neighbourhood idiots or stray dogs whom you tolerate and feel sorry for in a tru asian fashion |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 178 of 205 ) Actually Galaxy yours is the most sensible option. I guess though many of us have come to regard Karapall and Lowman as the neighbourhood idiots or stray dogs whom you tolerate and feel sorry for in a tru asian fashion |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 179 of 205 ) Lowman Post 170: Got your goat there you fool:-) Do I need to respond you thread in assholed donkey? You snookered yourself in you response |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 180 of 205 ) gandalf, fucking bastard. let people believe in what they want to believe in. muslims want to insult others and break their temples and religious places. that is bullshit and not acceptable. if you consider cutting your dick, shaving one's pussy, and looking aimlessly towards mecca, making stupid gestures while praying, imitating your prophet in the way you shit, piss, and not bathe properly, and rape and plunder like your prophet did, as the ideal religion, i don't have a problem with that at all. if you want to clean your dick with a stone as in arabia, i don't have a problem either. but, if you break the wall of a public urinal to get a brick to clean your dick after pissing, i do have a problem with that. i hope you understand the difference. maybe, you don't, as you don't have a brain. believing in something is one's own problem. making others believe in your bullshit is "totally different" and "unacceptable". muslims indulge in idolatory everyday, of a different kind, for example. whatever they do in their own house is quite OK by me. the problem arises when they break my house and question my ideas. DIG animal. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 181 of 205 ) gandalf, fucking bastard. let people believe in what they want to believe in. muslims want to insult others and break their temples and religious places. that is bullshit and not acceptable. if you consider cutting your dick, shaving one's pussy, and looking aimlessly towards mecca, making stupid gestures while praying, imitating your prophet in the way you shit, piss, and not bathe properly, and rape and plunder like your prophet did, as the ideal religion, i don't have a problem with that at all. if you want to clean your dick with a stone as in arabia, i don't have a problem either. but, if you break the wall of a public urinal to get a brick to clean your dick after pissing, i do have a problem with that. i hope you understand the difference. maybe, you don't, as you don't have a brain. believing in something is one's own problem. making others believe in your bullshit is "totally different" and "unacceptable". muslims indulge in idolatory everyday, of a different kind, for example. whatever they do in their own house is quite OK by me. the problem arises when they break my house and question my ideas. DIG animal. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 182 of 205 ) galaxy: "I would rather suggest he find his habitation in Pakistan or China.This would be taking care of two of our problems the domestic 'hate lobby' and cunning neighbours." Well, well, well, interesting!! this communist lapdog scumbag Galaxy, who quite recently was singing praise of his masters in Beijing, wants to pack me off to his masters land, so that they can take care of the Indians who dare to be on the side of India. Well, if you demonstrated any less sympathies for China and Pakistan, you would not be a true Indian communist. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 183 of 205 ) Idolatory, making stupid gestures while praying.. Lowman, which religion are you talking about. You seems to miss the point inyour tirade about cut dicks and urinals.. The argument is not about whether Islam is faultless. I personally have strong views agains Islam. But that will never affect my actions and outlook. Because someone is flawed, does not mean I am also going to stoop to that level. I am not for X or against X. I dont need to make the choice. You are allowing your entire being to be determined and defined by something.. thereby loosing whatever identity you have |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 184 of 205 ) Gandalf: "I am not for X or against X. I dont need to make the choice. " Such fabulous decision-making prowess is probably what makes you such a high-flying business magnate. Of course, if you dont make choice, then someone else will make it for you....a lesson you learn in the school of hard knocks very early on. But ivy-leaguers like you probably are not aware... |
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jbindra 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 185 of 205 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Seems you were a wannabe ivy-leaguer, but they didnt take you because you had learnt nothing in the past 12-14 years of miseducation at the Sanghi Shishu Mandir. We can understand your grievances and attempts at trying to sound intelligent because of having faced rejection throughout your life. Right from your mom to the captive female monkey you were bred with. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 186 of 205 ) jbindra, "ivy-leaguers"is equivalent to "bookish" thinking with no clue of reality, as opposed to "school of hard knocks" which does not have books or a curriculum, but plenty of teachers. |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 187 of 205 ) gandalf, thanks for your condescending attitude towards islam. you do not stoop to the level of a muslim. what a ringing endorsement of islam, i am sure the muslims will be very happy with you. fucker, at least i state what is on my mind. i don't lie like you do. islamic matherchots are scumbags, i stand by what i say. but, whore sons like you are worse. you slimy lying bastards are worse than the jehadi assholes. you will fuck your own mother for money and software contracts from the yanks. worthless turd. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 188 of 205 ) Rephrasing.. I have stong views on some percepts ? traits of Islam. I cannot have a view against a religion. Lowman "i stand by what i say" ... how can you stand by what you have no idea of. What are you doing in US .. may I ask? |
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GAYATHRI 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 189 of 205 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm There is nothing wrong with Hinduism. Using it to justify human rights violation, i think is an excuse not the reason. What i find suprising is why we believe it. Instead of fixing individual responsibility, why be naive and wonder if its the religion at fault. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 190 of 205 ) Gaytathri: "why be naive and wonder if its the religion at fault." It would be okay if it was neivete, but I would attribute it to open malice towards hindus rather than naivete. By blaming hinduism, these pseudo-secular bigots hope to put ALL hindus on the defensive and bend over backwards for people who have nothing in mind but their own parochial religious and political interests. Make no mistake about it. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 191 of 205 ) Its the same as saying that that Islam causes terrorism... I dont think anything is worng with a religion. I dont agree with Karapal that there is any malice towards Hindhus. It is human to find a easy reason and object of Hate. Just as Karapall and Lowman blame Muslims for even indigestion, there are some people who blame Hindhus for everything.. Both are not to be taken seriously. |
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galaxy 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 192 of 205 ) Gandalf, there is nothing wrong with any religion,certainly not with Hinduism. Have made this point repeatedly before. It is facile to blame a religious persuasion for the sins of omission and commission of its adherents (however misguided they may be). This discussion is once again bringing to sharp focus the hypocricy and lack of fairness at this forum. We can argue very legitimately and CORRECTLY that there is nothing wrong with Hinduism just because of misguided actions of a section of our co religionists. But, when it comes to Islam or Christianity, there is everything wrong with the religion for the reasons that do not hold true for oursleves i.e. Misguided individuals. How can we expect fairness and reasoned argument in a complete absence of logic and surfeit of hatred. The key issue to my mind, is can the rule of law be subverted, under any condition by religion. If we need a civilised society , the answer can only be in the negative. For this we need an unbiased law enforcement machinery and a constant attempt at enacting new laws that are attuned with the times ,not driven by the dictates of any particular religion or personal beliefs.Laws that are constantly endeavouring to remove bias and build a more egalitarian society. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 193 of 205 ) Gandalf: "there are some people who blame Hindhus for everything.. Both are not to be taken seriously." I suppose only people who blame north Indian, hindi speakers, and brahmins for everything should be taken seriously, eh?? Thanks for clarifying, dear NRI bigot. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 194 of 205 ) galaxy: "It is facile to blame a religious persuasion for the sins of omission and commission of its adherents (however misguided they may be)." Who else do you blame?, you worthless communist imbecile. GOD!!!???? Now, that would be very convenient for you pro-jihadi communist turds, wouldn't it? "This discussion is once again bringing to sharp focus the hypocricy and lack of fairness at this forum. " For a communist turd who usually blames religious hindus for all of India's evils, this sudden 180-degree turn is quite a sight. I guess no one can claim that you communist turds are not morally and ideologically inflexible. |
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sonia 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 195 of 205 ) some of the mistakes of religious leader in hinduism. 1. there is no structure for religious leader like pope of christianity. 2. there is no religious headquarter like vatican or mecca. 3. discriminating people based on caste was not removed when other religion far beyond that point. These are all the reason why many hindus converted to different religion. Hinduism needs to be modernised in order to survive for longer period. Modernisation failed partly due to invasion. invasion happened due to failure of modernisation. both goes hand in hand. i call upon religious leader to modernise hinduism to survive for ever. |
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Iniyan 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 196 of 205 ) Hinduism is not a religion at all, but a social system of hierarchical castes which was given the name "Hinduism" by the British. Except for the Brahmans who are ordained to study and practice the religious scriptures due to the caste system, the other so called "Hindus" have no participation in religious activity because they are barred from studying the scriptures. Those who are outcast as untouchable Panchamas (Dalits) and those who were defiled as lower caste Shudras and descendants of sexual slaves of the upper castes in Manu Smiruthi (Bahujans - Backward castes) found the Hindu identity heaped on them during and after the British rule even though they were never considered as part of the "Sanathana Dharma" by the upper castes before the advent of the British rule. This created the foundation for the "Hinduisation" agenda of the Hindutva forces. Independent India has gone further and imposed the Hindu identity legally and stealthily on even non-Hindus such as indigenous tribal groups, Buddhists, Jains and Sikhs. It was only after the British opened up state schools to people of all castes did the so called Backward castes, Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes taste the fruits of even primary education because until then, everybody had to (only) follow the caste vocation of one's parents. The so called Shudras and Panchamas were barred from education in the pre-British Indian society because of the caste system. The "Manu Smiruthi" famously says that "molten lead has to be poured into the ears of those lowly born who dare to hear the recital of the written word". Now you know what is wrong with Hinduism. It is just not a religion, but an apartheid like socially segregating hierarchical system which has been masquerading as a religion because the British called it so with the term "Hinduism". The senior Sankaracharya of the Kanchi Mutt (who is no more) has put it on record in his book by thanking the British for coining the term Hindu and for inventing a religion out of a non-religious society of hierarchical segregation. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 197 of 205 ) Lowman, karapal.. its been too hot for you??? |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 198 of 205 ) Iniyan: "Hinduism is not a religion at all, but a social system of hierarchical castes which was given the name "Hinduism" by the British." Care to provide some non communist (i.e., communist source == bullsh!t) sources for the above view?? Or else one might be forced to conclude that you are just another bigoted communist gaandmaar or another jihadi a**hole who has been reading too much jihadi propaganda in www.dalitstan.org. |
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Karapall 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 199 of 205 ) gandalf, I have my air conditioning unit on and am quite comfortable. Thanks for the concern. |
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mukund 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 200 of 205 ) Forget Hinduism, Religions by itself SUCK. - Men create gods after their own image, not only with regard to their form but with regard to their mode of life. - Aristotle - I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion. - James Buchanan - Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. - Karl Marx - In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal god. - Albert Einstein - The more I study religions, the more I am convinced that man never Worshipped anything but himself. - Richard Burton |
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luvvmann 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 201 of 205 ) mukund, all of what you quoted may apply. however, reality is that religion is here, a personal god exists for most people. this will lead to nowhere except another religion "against religion" like marxism. marx may have said that but marxists pray to dead bodies of lenin and mao. get it. |
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facts 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 202 of 205 ) U mean athesim is also a religion.... A great discovery..... |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 203 of 205 ) I guess we should not confuse personal gods with what is know as arganised religions today. eg. one's personal relation with her dieties is not comparable to the grasping rabid religing the Sanghis stand for.. or Bin laden or say Pat robertson. |
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gandalf 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 204 of 205 ) I guess we should not confuse personal gods with what is know as arganised religions today. eg. one's personal relation with her dieties is not comparable to the grasping rabid religion the Sanghis stand for.. or Bin laden or say Pat robertson. |
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Kaunain 3/19/2002 7:08:33 PM ( 205 of 205 ) Dear Friends, I do not thing anything is wrong with Hinduism, if there is anything wrong, it is our in heads. We have to change ourselves and accept that there are serious problems in our social instincts. The future improvement in our society seems to be directly proportional to the sincerity with which we accept our faults and these sordid facts. If there are some people who want to serve Hinduism, then instead of blaming others, they can take up various tasks whose urgency can never be undermined. Why not clean our filthy pilgrimages and cities? Why not ensure by institutional changes that our priests are well versed in Sanskrit and our scriptures? Why not do away with customs which are not valid anymore? Why not end the caste system?. Why not raise voice against corruption and lethargy which inflicts our nation? Why not design buildings with pleasing architecture? Why not popularize the use of birth control methods since Indian population is increasing alarmingly? Do not you think these are more important that building mandir or masjid ? If the hotheads among us are able to hijack our religion, It will not be surprised if 10 years hence, Hinduism will be also be viewed as another extremist, militant and fanatical religion. |
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