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...Ah 'Zen Katha' ['The Story of the Zen & Bodhiidhamma'] - a play is on in Bombay. Now Now!!! Let there be a Film as well... 03:24 AM 12/06/2004 update :: ...Ah Shekhar Kapur, the acclaimed filmmaker 2 make a movie on Buddha, an epic along the line of Ten Commandments... his Oscar certain this time round... when asked why Buddha, he replied :: "It's the gr8est story in the world. It is the Story of all stories"...
Zen means Meditation. In saMskrit it is called Dhya'an, in Paalii Jha'an in Praakrit t doesn't know & reaching China it b'came Cha'an ...and reaching Nippon it b'came Zen, 'Zen' is merely a Japanese rhyme of the Paali 'Jha'an'
Bodhidharma (also known as Pu Tai Ta Mo in Chinese and Daruma Daishi in Japanese) was an Enlightened Buddhist Master who is credited with reviving Buddhism in China and founding martial arts Gong Fu or Kung Fu.
Bodhidharma began his life as a royal prince in Southern India in the Sardilli family in 482 A.D. [KaaNchiipuram Raaja Sughand's 3rd son] In the midst of his education and training to continue in his father's footsteps as king, Bodhidhamma encountered the Buddha's teachings. He immediately saw the truth in Lord Buddha's words and decided to give up his esteemed position and inheritance to study with the famous Buddhist teacher Prajnatara. Bodhidhamma rapidly progressed in his Buddhist studies, and in time, Prajnatara sent Bodhidhamma to China, where Buddhism had begun to die out, to introduce the Sarvastivada sect Buddhist teachings to the Chinese. Bodhidhamma arrived in China after a brutal trek over Tibet's Himalayan Mountains surviving both the extreme elements and treacherous bandits.
Bodhidhamma, who, as Indian Prince and Buddhist priest, was well-educated both in Vajramushti/Tai Ji Quan techniques and in philosophy and theology, wanted to bring Buddhism out of the libraries and lecture halls of esthetes and pedants and into the everyday minds of the common man. His Indian temperament, camouflaged amidst China's "southern" thinkers, accorded him a nearly native claim to Daoism's methodology. He therefore combined Indian Buddhist philosophy with Daoist methodology, and came to orthodox China to preach his new synthesis :: Zen.
And what was this "Zen"? The word simply means meditation.
In Sanskrit the word is "dhyaan"; the English cognate of which is "dwell". Dhyaan and Zen appear to be unrelated words, but in fact they are similarly pronounced. Whenever a heavily voiced "D" precedes the glide "Y", as in Did You, the sounds are usually combined and pronounced as a "J". We say, "Di'ja go?." Ed-u-cate becomes "ejucate." Canad-i-an becomes "Cajun." Sanskrit's Dhyaan (meditation) became "Jen" - pronounced exactly that way but written as Chan in Chinese. In Japanese, a slight variation :: Zen.
Temperament is not a mask. Bodhidhamma was a blue-eyed aryan and tended to stand out in a crowd. Besides his startling appearance, he demonstrated some rather formidable meditation powers; and the Chinese, suitably impressed, gave him the sobriquet, "The Blue-Eyed Demon." Novelty being its own cachet the Prince from India was soon invited to the Imperial Court of the Liang Dynasty's Emperor Wu. Bodhidhamma did not fail to use the opportunity to publicize his new Zen doctrine, the rationale which would become the governing code of martial arts' conduct: The Code of Wu Shi Dao... The Warrior's (Wu Shi) Way (Dao). In Japanese: Bushido.
Rinzai is one of the most famous Zen masters. Just as Bodhidhamma took dhyaan to the land of China, Rinzai brought from China - his Chinese name is Lin Chi - the same lamp, the same light, to Japan. It is a tremendous transmission from one land to another land, from one master to another master, and it is the only tradition in the world which is still breathing, still alive.
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Kanshu! Member |
Topic: Have The Japanese Corrupted Chan Into Zen? posted 06-13-2001 07:46 AM [Originally posted @ tricycle.com] I realize Zen is the japanese word for Chan (sp). This is not about language. My question is more about the changes that have manifested in Chan by the japanese. For example, having gone back and read some of the comments on the Blue Clif Record and other widely published koans, by Chinese masters and then read the comments by Japanese masters. I find that their understandings and interpetations vary widely. So much so that my concern has manifested into this topic. I am begining to think that many of the japanese masters didnt have a clue what the chinese masters were teaching. So in japan these masters just sort of came up with their own thing. Based loosly on what little that they did know. I am not saying that either is correct or incorrect. Just profoundly different. Please understand I am not attacking japanese zen. My lineage is via Japan. I was just looking for some ideas and personal insights from others. gassho, Kanshu |
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Sunyata Member |
posted 06-13-2001 08:26 AM "corrupted" may be a bit too strong a word - adapted?, modified? but I agree with the need to ask that question the Zen way seems to be uniquely different from other traditions, more a reflection of the Japanese "samurai" culture than the broad tradition of Mahayana Buddhism and its manifestations as Chan |
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Jeff Wilson Member |
Awesome topic title, Kanshu, if you can't get a good argument out of that one we'll know the BB members have all suddenly reached enlightenment while I was out watching Animal Planet. I'm gonna have to echo Sunyata's general approach. I too have concerns about Japanese Zen, and have tended to go to the Chinese Ch'an masters rather than Japanese Zen masters for insight. But there are always going to be factors that make two separate cultural expressions different from each other. One is that Japan and China are really quite different places, with separate histories, language, topography, traditions, and ethnic religions. Another is simply time: Zen is the most recent Chinese form of Dharma to be transmitted to Japan, and by the birth of Dogen, the Sixth Patriarch had been dead for nearly 500 years. A lot changes in 500 years! So of course Zen and the old-school Ch'an which is popular in books in America are going to appear rather different. One thing to think about is that the Chinese mindset basically looks for connections between things and tries to unify disparate traditions into a whole. The Japanese have demonstrated a far greater tendency toward sectarianism and essentialism, looking for the one exclusively right Buddhist practice, be it zazen, koan study, nembutsu, daimoku, precepts, or any of the other single solutions recommended by various Japanese sects. So Zen (at least, Soto and Rinzai, I wouldn't include Obaku which has retained a much more Chinese flavor), with a samurai spirit to boot, has thrown out massive amounts of the normal Ch'an program, such as Pure Land chants and koans, mastery of the Tripitaka, etc. I have real concerns that Zen does not offer a sufficiently rounded path to accomidate the many types of people in this world, and furthermore that it tends toward elitism and difficult practices which the great majority of people will never master, effectively excluding the mass of humanity from enlightenment (hardly proper bodhisattva skillful means from my perspective). But we shouldn't expect Zen to be Ch'an: Japan is not China, and neither is the West, and our Zen will differ from both Japanese and Chinese expressions inevitably. And while there are problems in Zen, as in all forms of religion and human institutions, it is still a viable and beautiful path that has helped many to awaken. I wouldn't say Japanese Zen is better than Chinese Ch'an, they are just different as they needed to be different to express the Dharma to different peoples in different times. |
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Ophelia Member |
Whew! What a topic Kanshu! You know this echoes some of my "I don't want to worship Japanese culture" rants a while ago. Now maybe I can elaborate! (Oh boy!) The samurai tradition in Japan is what I think has corrupted Chan more than anything else. Zen reeks of it. Here's what I see that is tolerated in traditional zen lineages: Okay, maybe I'm going a little too far, but maybe this will rouse a few sleeping tigers. Hey, and I'm still practicing zazen with one of Maezumi's dharma heirs!!!! (I think I like some of the stark, just shut up and sit aspects of it a lot.) |
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Tom Armstrong Member |
My interest is pretty much exclusive to Ch'an. My understanding echos some of what Jeff said: Fundamental cultural differences are causal for the overarching differences in the religions in the two nations. But, still, there are enormous differences within Ch'an and within Zen, so the disparities overall are big. Yet, viewed another way, everyone is talking about the same thing essentially. Rinzai and Soto Zen are probably more alike now than they have been. Hui-neng and whatshisname, his rival 6th Patriarch ended up appreciating and adapting somewhat each others views. So I think it is all a wild dance of separations and comings together: Sort of like the Charleston merging with the Froog merging with the Tango. Hmm. Somehow my post doesn't really say much -- but what else is new. |
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Fudo_Tai Member |
posted 06-14-2001 09:02 PM
I think the subject can be further broken down... "Did the Chinese currupt Dhyaan (Jen) Buddhism?" Ch'an (which is also pronounced "Jen") is most definately a Chinese mixture of Daoism, and Dhyaan Buddhism (Dhyaan being the meditation, which is what Buddha himself practiced, and taught, and was the basis for Zen). Zen is NOT a product of Samurai Culture, though the Samurai Culture that we know of IS the product of Zen Practice, mixed with Shintoism, and Clansmanship. More often than not, Japanese Zen Masters were really Chinese Zen Masters, just with Japanese names. I personally think that the original school of Ch'an (Dhyaan Buddhism) was less evolved. ~Dave. |
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Fudo_Tai Member |
posted 06-14-2001 09:07 PM
Oh! I also noticed some negative connotations on eating meat! (Besides that, the Japanese Monks are strict Vegans, or Vegetarians. It is the Dalai Lama who eats meat). I read somewhere that Buddha's last meal consisted of pork as one of the portions. Oh, and many Chinese Ch'an Masters are known for being big drinkers also! ~Dave. |
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ranmasaotome Member |
posted 06-20-2001 12:18 PM
If you were to replace every single parts of your car with new parts, would it still be the same car ? |
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snowman Member |
posted 06-22-2001 08:36 AM
back in ancient times--like say, the 1970's--i just LOVED the kyosaku and the manic joriki that would manifest in the zendo during sesshin ... all the mu-ing! and katz-ing! and pounding of fists... shades of Ummon and Rinzai and Joshu. Perhaps, given a lot of our mindstates at that time, such a severe and ferocious atmosphere was necessary, to get the practice off the ground, so to speak. To keep us (some of us) out of bars and off dope and bring us back to the mat. But now the practice--in exactly the same lineage--is radically different. So, no matter how we bracket it--(Chinese) Ch'an, (Japanese) Zen, (Yankee) Dharma ... whatever--it all comes down to the essence of the practice and finding our way to the Buddha's Truth. Like the saying goes, there are 84,000 entryways to the Buddhadharma. gassho |
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Prax Member |
:: posted 06-22-2001 07:36 PM
is it possible to corrupt a no-thing? |
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cheecher Member |
:: posted 06-25-2001 10:12 PM
I studied Zen with Suzuki Roshi, author of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, for quite some time. I got a lot out of it although it was quite stark and the long sittings difficult. What I *do* have problem with is Japanese temples that give little certificates for being enlightened. Where in the world did this come from? |
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tathagat Member |
In saMskrit it is called dhyaan, in Paalii it is called jhaan in Praakrit t doesn't know and reaching China it b'came Chaan ...and reaching Nippon [Japan] it b'came Zen, 'Zen' is merely a Japanese rhyme of the Paali 'Jhaan' [Updated 18th Nov. 2004] [:: posted 07-23-2001 07:05 PM] ...the story of Bodhidharma and his meeting with the Chinese emperor Wu -- a very strange meeting, very fruitful. Emperor Wu perhaps was at that time the greatest emperor in the world; he ruled all over China, Mongolia, Korea, the whole of Asia, except India. He became convinced of the truth of Gautam Buddha's teachings, but the people who had brought the message of Buddha were scholars. None of them were mystics. And then the news came that Bodhidharma was coming, and there was a great thrill all over the land. Because Emperor Wu had become influenced by Gautam Buddha, that had made his whole empire influenced by the same teaching. And now a real mystic, a buddha, was coming. It was such a great joy! Emperor Wu had never before come to the boundaries where India and China meet to receive anyone. With great respect he welcomed Bodhidharma, and he asked , "I have been asking all the monks and the scholars who have been coming, but nobody has been of any help -- I have tried everything. But how to get rid of this self? And Buddha says, `Unless you become a no-self, your misery cannot end.'" He was sincere. Bodhidharma looked into his eyes, and he said, "I will be staying by the side of the river near the mountain in the temple. Tomorrow morning, at four o'clock exactly, you come and I will finish this self forever. But remember, you are not to bring any arms with you, any guards with you; you have to come alone." Wu was a little worried -- the man was strange! "How can he just destroy my self so quickly? It takes -- it has been told by the scholars -- lives and lives of meditation; then the self disappears. This man is weird! And he is wanting me in the darkness, early in the morning at four o'clock, alone, even without a sword, no guards, no other companion. This man seems to be strange -- he could do anything. And what does he mean that he will kill the self forever? He can kill me, but how will he kill the self?" The whole night he could not sleep. He changed his mind again and again -- to go or not to go? But there was something in the man's eyes, and there was something in his voice, and there was some aura of authority when he said, "Just come at four o'clock sharp, and I will finish this self forever! You need not be worried about it." What he said looked absurd, but the way he said it, and the way he looked were so authoritative: he knows what he is saying. Finally Wu had to decide to go. He decided to risk, "At the most he can kill me -- what else? And I have tried everything. I cannot attain this no-self, and without attaining this no-self there is no end to misery." He knocked on the temple door, and Bodhidharma said, "I knew you would come; I knew also that the whole night you would be changing your mind. But that does not matter -- you have come. Now sit down in the lotus posture, close your eyes, and I am going to sit in front of you. "The moment you find, inside, your self, catch hold of it so I can kill it. Just catch hold of it tightly and tell me that you have caught it, and I will kill it and it will be finished. It is a question of minutes." Wu was a little afraid. Bodhidharma looked like a madman; he is painted like a madman -- he was not like that, but the paintings are symbolic. That's the impression he must have left on people. It was not his real face, but that must be the face that people were remembering. He was sitting with his big staff in front of Wu, and he said to him, "Don't miss a second. Just the moment you catch hold of it -- search inside every nook and corner -- open your eyes and then tell me that you have caught it, and I will finish it." Then there was silence. One hour passed, two hours passed and the sun was rising, and Wu was a different man. In those two hours he looked inside himself, in every nook and corner. He had to look -- that man was sitting there; he could have hit him on his head with his staff. You could expect anything; whatever.... He was not a man of etiquette, manner; he was not part of Wu's court, so he had to look intently, intensively. And as he looked, he became relaxed, because it was nowhere. And in looking for it, all thoughts disappeared. The search was so intense that his whole energy was involved in it; there was nothing left to think and desire, and this and that. As the sun was rising Bodhidharma saw Wu's face; he was not the same man -- such silence, such depth. He had disappeared. Bodhidharma shook him and told him, "Open your eyes -- it is not there. I don't have to kill it. I am a nonviolent man, I don't kill anything! But this self does not exist. Because you never look at it, it goes on existing. It is in your not looking for it, in your unawareness, that it exists. Now it is gone." Two hours had passed, and Wu was immensely glad. He had never tasted such sweetness, such freshness, such newness, such beauty. And he was not. Bodhidharma had fulfilled his promise. Emperor Wu bowed down, touched his feet and said, "Please forgive me thinking that you are mad, thinking that you don't know manners, thinking that you you are weird, thinking that you you can be dangerous. I have never seen a more compassionate man than you... I am totally fulfilled. Now there is no question in me." Emperor Wu said that when he died, on his grave, the memorial, Bodhidharma's statement should be engraved in gold, for the people in centuries to come to know..."There was a man who looked mad, but who was capable of doing miracles. Without doing anything he helped me to be a non-self. And since then everything has changed. Everything is the same but I am not the same, and life has become just a pure song of silence." |
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tathagat Member |
:: posted 07-23-2001 07:16 PM
The Emperor had built many temples and performed many charitable acts and considered himself the most hard working and worthy of orthodox Buddhists; and so he asked the Zen philosopher how much merit all his imperial good deeds had gained him. Bodhidharma looked surprised. "Why, none." he answered. The Emperor grew indignant. "Then what," he demanded, "if not good works should I as a Buddhist have striven to accomplish?" "To be empty of yourself," answered Bodhidharma. It was not the sort of remark one generally made to Chinese emperors. The emperor countered, "Just who do you think you are?" and Bodhidharma shrugged. "I have no idea," he said. But the man with no ego was not a fool; The Blue Eyed Demon left town fast and headed for the sanctuary of Shao Lin Monastery. At Shao Lin Ji, as legend has it, Zen's First Patriarch found the priests to be in such poor physical condition that, in addition to teaching them his new form of meditation Buddhism, he instructed them in the Tai Ji Quan/Vajramushti discipline known to us now as Gong (Kung) Fu. However the Shao Lin priests managed to learn Gong Fu, one thing is certain: they learned it well within the context of Zen's Code of Conduct. The martial arts were practiced as a spiritual discipline, a devotional exercise, an expression of egoless action. There could be no swaggering, no aggressiveness, no emotional involvement of any kind... and never a thought of vengeance. An angry man or a proud man was unfit for such ritualized combat. If a student started to behave egoistically and didn't catch himself in the act, he'd get a lesson in humility when his master caught up with him. "To be empty of yourself!" Think of it. What did Bodhidharma mean and how exactly did that meaning translate into Wushidao/Bushido? |
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mathi Member |
:: posted 07-27-2001 10:11 AM
Thathagat, Wow what a story. Does anyone in Ch'an buddhism practice such a technique of trying to hold on to something in the mind, as bodhidharma instructed? [sorry I'm late :)] |
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snowman Member |
I don't see where Bodhidharma 'held' anything in his mind. In fact, when the second patriarch complained of having an unsettled mind, Bodhidharma said, "Bring me this mind of yours and I will pacify it!" |
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Arcane Member |
:: posted 07-27-2001 11:42 AM
I have never been to Japan. Nor to a temple/center of Japanese decent. But here's my theory: part of the problem came when priests were allowed to be married. Nepotism began to determine who was someone's Dharma-heir. It seems like becomming a priest in a way became like a status symbol or some family business you had to go into. -arcane |
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dharma Member |
:: posted 07-27-2001 08:20 PM
tathagat. Beautiful. Thank you for posting that. Please tell some more. |
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mars1 Member |
:: posted 07-28-2001 01:04 AM
I remember my sense of disappointment when I first joined a zen center here in america. i expected the teacher(s) to come across like lin chi or mazu. The old chan masters seemed to speak zen / chan directly...while most japanese and all of the american teachers I've heard or read sound like they are only talking 'about' zen. I got the distinct impression that something vital was missing from most or all of modern zen. Read a book like "Instant Zen" or "Swampland Flowers" and then listen to any modern zen teacher's discourse...the latter is usually a pale reflection of the former...all seem to be standing on the outside. Not all of the dissimilarity is cultural. I suppose all things corrupt over time. |
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Jeff Wilson Member |
:: posted 07-28-2001 11:56 AM
Mars1, all those ancient Chinese documents are literary texts, they've been edited and re-edited over the intervening 1200+ years until they really seem to express only direct pithy enlightenment and all the dross is left out. Lin-chi didn't really go around making profoundly transforming statements every single time he opened his mouth. I really love and respect the old Ch'an masters and have benefitted greatly from studying the texts of their time, but let's remember that we perceive them dimly through many centuries of cultural and personal filters and Ch'an and Zen propaganda. In the year 3000 I bet "Everyday Zen" will have been edited in such a way that it makes Joko Beck sound like Hui-Neng. |
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whonose Member |
:: posted 07-28-2001 04:28 PM
Have humans corrupted everything? Wise topic choice enables truth to be shared. These teasers elicit debate of no value :) Al |
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mathi Member |
:: posted 07-29-2001 12:27 AM
snowman, You are right. I was going on the story which tathagath had related. It is quite impossible to hold on to anything in the mind as things, expecially mind 'objects' are impermanent. Emperor Wu would have realized this and also the realization of No self which comes along with this. What was described above is typical vipassana practice. I'm wondering if it exists under a different name/form in Cha'n buddhism. take care |
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Kanshu! Member |
:: posted 07-29-2001 10:11 AM
non-dualism, big mind, buddha nature. all include what your discribing as no-self. No-self is also used. gassho, Kanshu [This message has been edited by Kanshu! (edited 07-29-2001).] |
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mathi Member |
:: posted 07-30-2001 08:27 AM
Hello Kanshu, Yes, again the problem with the BBs. Yes, you are right about no self. But I was actually refering to the technique of meditation which Bodidharma had asked Emperor Wu to try out. I was wondering if this system of meditation is practiced today in Ch'an. Any info, anyone? take care |
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snowman Member |
:: posted 07-30-2001 01:11 PM
Mathi, Bodhidharma's 'technique' was simply to force the Emperor into an existential corner in which he (the Emperor)--according to this tale--woke up a bit to his true nature. The MU koan, the Who is the master inquiry, Original Face, Sound of One Hand etc. can all accomplish the same thing. In actual practice, it is the 'nub' of the koan itself that becomes the focus of zazen--like MU!, or Bodhidharma told the Emperor to look for his 'self'. The Emperor tossed and turned all night long, probably in great anxiety. No self to be found anywhere. And yet, he didn't just fall into a black hole either. This is how a koan or a spiritual inquiry works. As someone said, first it shows you how trapped you are, and then it sets you free. gassho |
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dharma Member |
:: posted 07-31-2001 01:29 AM
Mathi, I have practiced that meditation in India but it was not in a zen practice. The meditation was first breath awareness followed by sound awareness. When the sound was no longer separate from "you", the focus was placed on the body sensations. Then you tried to discover who or what was experiencing the sensations. Soon there was no difference between the experience and the experiencer. If you can hit that state it is alot like those cyberoptic posters (3 d) when you are seeing you can not undestnd how you did not see it. I vaguely remember an insight about how using words such as love, practice, anger, kindness as nouns rather than verbs were stumbling blocks as are rather processes as is a human being or even the universe. I remember that there was no sense of being there at all. There was just the action of breathing or digesting-like if you remove the processes you vanish. I am not saying this correctly or understandably probably as is very difficult to describe. But anyway the meditation above can be a map of sorts for that "no self type of experience. |
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