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Penality for Rapists? Free Speech Host 11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM The statistics are mind-numbing, and
recent incidents outraging. So much so that the Deputy
Prime Minister even went to the extent of saying: "I feel the punishment
for rape should be death. However, I would like to get the point of view
of political parties and state governments in this regard". Not all agree,
as many feel that it is not the fear of a death sentence that would work,
but better implementation of the current punishments, that what is required
is more senisitisation of the police and the judicial process. What do
you think? |
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| m_vamsi
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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1 of 31 )
Sure, I almost believe in a Death Penalty for almost everything heinous. So that people fear dowing such things. ther whould be one too for corruption over a certain amount. Well, that can help atleast keep corruptions level down. :-) |
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| gandalf
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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2 of 31 )
Yes, if you cant give a life, better not be in hurry to take one. |
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| every
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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3 of 31 )
Death Penality for Rapists ? Yes. Everyone should support it. |
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| galaxy
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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4 of 31 )
The trends in Jurisprudence are to move away from death penalty and capital punishment. This issue will continue to plague international extradition. We still have the fundamentalist saudi Arabia and wannabe Wahabis in Dubya/ashcroft and our very own advani. Their stock in a bankrupt trade is the same violent retribution and vengeance. I do not condone rape but would like the full force of the current laws to be unleashed as a begining...this is not happening in our country. Rape is growingly a political weapon. Look at the riots in Gujarat where Rape has been legitamised and was legal tender during the VHP /Government supported bandh. Rapists should be firmly dealt with by the force of legal system and not condoned UNDER ANY CONDITION BY A CRASS POLITICAL CLASS(remember the infamous George Fernandes and his plaintive arguments 'nothing new about rape') With a cynical political class innured to violence aginst women , the death sentence would be for the statute book not for implementation against rapists but will probably constitute the new basis for FIR's against recalcitrant political allies (UP style),truculent IAS/IPS officers, pesty eyewitnesess AND and geriatric and hirsute over ground faces for the underground ..... |
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| Tathagat
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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5 of 31 )
appa DeepO bhava ... Faalii Baavajii Narimaan said it... the rapist would kill the victim... if its death either way... life term v/s capital punishment... but eliminating the evidence would be a temptation to throw away that advantage... so in practice more women will be killed after rape... AaDvaaNii got a few thousand killed so far... he wants 2 kill people for all time 2 come... asking the victim about her sex history is sickening... what about rape within matrimony... the legit rape... wonder when they will address that... till late 80s the courts in UK wouldn't reckon rape within a marriage... now they do!!!... Violence Against Women : Developing National Policy Impact of Rape Reform Legislation in Six Major Urban Jurisdictions in the United States, 1970-1985 Legal Issues by Wendy Murphy / rapeis.org Laws against rape were enacted, initially, to protect the “value” of women as men’s property. This view has changed somewhat as the law has developed more to protect the bodily integrity and personal autonomy of women as individuals. Still, the enforcement of rape laws is inconsistent and the vast majority of rapes are never reported. Why do you think this is so and how is the problem related to the fact that rape was once a crime against men's property? Rape, consent and justice: the difficulty : with this reform of sexual offences / The Independent, 20 Nov 2002 / obv.org.uk Women campaign for law reform : In the last newsletter we looked at one way in which Bangladeshi women are trying to assert their right to shape the legal system. HAMEEDA HOSSAIN, of Ain O Salish Kendra (ASK), a One World Action partner, continues this theme, looking at how women are involved at national policy level. / oneworldaction.org Laws and Definitions : History of Rape Laws in the US : Sexual Assault : Rape : Sedating Substances : Violence Against Women Act of 2000 |
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| Tathagat
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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6 of 31 )
appa DeepO bhava BRIAN DICKERSON: Outdated sex laws cry out for reform / freep.com U.S. Rape Reform Laws, 1970s Discussion August 1996 THE NEW MYTHOLOGY OF RAPE POLITICIZING WOMEN'S PAIN by Wendy McElroy / zetetics.com The Psychology of Rapists By Aurelia Thompson The National Council for Civil Liberties' proposed changes to rape laws liberty-human-rights.org.uk ADVOCACY : ABOUT RSA RAPE CRISIS / rapecrisis.org.za Violence Perpetuated in Rape Cases / students.washington.edu Paraphilia (Sexual Perversion) - General Rape Treatment Center Santa Monica |
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| kharbind
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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7 of 31 )
It is really pathetic to see that the majority of people those who have excess to internet and are able to read and understand english those may be considered to be reasonably educated people; support the death penalty appreently on emotional bases. Rape is a henious crime but it is not so henious as to warrant death penalty. Killing a person; in my opinion amounts to the rape of whole of the family who will loose a person forever and suffer the consequense of the supreme loss for ever. I think that rape should be simply recognised as sexual assault and there is no need to adopt excessive punishment; It would be better if we could develop some system through which we could ensure the certainity of punishment against the offender. |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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8 of 31 )
the rape laws should be made more effective. there are many areas where it can be improved. death penalty is not the solution. |
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| Karapall
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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9 of 31 )
Burn these motherfucking rapists with an additional 10000V. For the rest of you politcally correct shitheads, give me your address and I can pass them to various criminals so that they come and rape members of your family. Let us discuss on that topic a day afterwards. I am sure forgiveness will be welling in your heart when the rapist gets six months in prison and laughs at you and your family on his way to his vacation behind bars. |
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| Karapall
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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10 of 31 )
kharbind: "Killing a person; in my opinion amounts to the rape of whole of the family who will loose a person forever" The rapist is not a regular "person", you stupid left-wing liberal shit. He has broken the contract with society and has created a woman who has to handle the trauma of rape for the rest of her life. You still dont understand?? Send me the adresses of some of your close female relatives, and I will make you understand with the assistance of any willing rapist with an internet connection that I can pass such information to. |
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| hangme
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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11 of 31 )
Great sympathies to women who suffer rape. The punishment should be fit the crime. But capital punishment would be a double edged sword in the arms of women. Just imagine a women who want to settle a score with a man. Just seduce him and call it a rape and get him hanged. Women already have enough laws and powers which they miss utilize to the max (IPC 498a) and we don’t have to add one more to make mens lifes Miserable,venerable and at the mercy of women. If rape is sex against the will of a women, then even a wife can get her husband hanged ….just in case she wanna play foul? And how about women raping man? Haha |
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| Karapall
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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12 of 31 )
hangme: "Women already have enough laws and powers which they miss utilize to the max (IPC 498a) and we don’t have to add one more to make mens lifes Miserable,venerable and at the mercy of women." Is that so? Care to spell out these laws? you misogynistic piece of shit. |
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| Karapall
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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13 of 31 )
hangme: "Just imagine a women who want to settle a score with a man. Just seduce him and call it a rape and get him hanged. " I guess men having self control is beyond the question, eh? Are you a muslim asshole?? You certainly have views that are shared by all jihadi muslim fundamentalists in India. |
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| hangme
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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14 of 31 )
Karapall Blind bat cant you see the law I qouted. YOu will know when your ass is on fire. oh yeah...Looks like you have not met a right women. Grow up asshole and you will know what I am talking about. |
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| hangme
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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15 of 31 )
Karapall Blind bat cant you see the law I qouted. YOu will know when your ass is on fire. oh yeah...Looks like you have not met a right women. Grow up asshole and you will know what I am talking about. |
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| Karapall
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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16 of 31 )
hangme: " Grow up asshole and you will know what I am talking about." I very well read what you wrote, you brainless shit. Just because you have been conned by women and just because men want to fuck women with no repercussions, it does not mean that there needs to be a law that sympathizes with lecherous fools like you. Clearly, you are too stupid to understand what "growing up" entails. Here is a hint: your brains control your balls when you go past adolescence. |
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| Atilla
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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17 of 31 )
Though, every right thinking citizen would certainly want the parliament to pass the resolution to grant death penalty to the rapists, one shudders to think what if the perpetrator decides to kill the victim. When a rapist knows that he would be hanged, if he is testified for commiting his crime then he has no other option but to kill his victim. Though, this might be a valid argument against bringing in such an ordinance. But think for a while, even those who commit murder have been caught, tried and sentenced. In those cases also the "murdered" did not turn up in the court to testify against the accused. If we further improve our vigilance and forensic services, then whether a victim is alive or not, it would still be possible to bring the guilty to the books. The judiciary and the police will have to upgrade their modus operandi and be more sceintific, humanistic and professional in their approach. Though a person might commit a rape, still one needs a gut of steel to commit the act of murder. Yes friends, killing someone is not as easy as it sounds. So, I my opnion, I think we should have the ordinance of granting death penalty for rapists passed. |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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18 of 31 )
Re.498A. since ref. in earlier post. for information "186[CHAPTER XXA : OF CRUELTY BY HUSBAND OR RELATIVES OF HUSBAND 498A. Husband or relative of husband of a woman subjecting her to cruelty Whoever, being the husband or the relative of the husband of a woman, subjects such woman to cruelty shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine. Explanation- For the purpose of this section, "cruelty" means- (a) any wilful conduct which is of such a nature as is likely to drive the woman to commit suicide or to cause grave injury or danger to life, limb or health (whether mental or physical) of the woman; or (b) harassment of the woman where such harassment is with a view to coercing her or any person related to her to meet any unlawful demand for any property or valuable security or is on account of failure by her or any person related to her to meet such demand.] " |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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19 of 31 )
Some points reg. laws reg. rape. 1.amendment was made in 1983 reg. Minimum Punishment in rape cases (IPC Section 376 sub section 1) but if the judge decides that there is an adequate reason the punishment can be reduced. 2 The Burden of proving consent is shifted only in the cases of a Rape knowing the woman to be pregnant, Gang Rape and Custodial Rape. |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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20 of 31 )
contd3 Another key issue is the Section 155(4) of the Indian Evidence Act, which provides that if it is shown that the woman in question is of immoral character then her evidence will not be taken into account. It may be argued that this provision offers protection to the accused against false allegations of a women whose character is suspect. Yet consider Section 54 of the same Act. Among other things it says that in cases of rape, the fact that the accused person is a bad character is irrelevant. If the bad character of the prosecutrix is considered in cases of rape, why not the bad character of the accused too? contd |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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21 of 31 )
contd.4.Rape and the victim’s age. a.If the woman is not his wife, but below 16 years even with consent, the sexual intercourse is a rape. b.If the woman is his wife, but above 15 years even WITHOUT CONSENT, the sexual intercourse is NOT A RAPE c.If the wife is above 12 years of age,( and below 15 years of age) the maximum punishment is only two years and fine. |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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22 of 31 )
.MARITAL RAPE (Sexual intercourse without the consent of the wife) Marital Rape is not a crime under the present laws but after 1983, rape by husband, pending divorce was made a crime. Intercourse by a man with his wife during separation (Section 376A of Indian Penal Code) “Whoever has sexual intercourse with his own wife, who is living separately from him under a decree of separation or under any custom or usage without her consent shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to two years and shall also be liable to fine.” contd |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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23 of 31 )
Marital Rape is a crime and the present law is a contradiction of the unanimous resolution at the UN conference in Beijing, September '95. The resolution guarantees every woman's right to say no to sex as she wishes, specifically wives. To add insult to injury, non-consummation and refusal to consummate are grounds for divorce. Thus the women have no control over their body and this goes together with the issue of condom use, for the purpose of contraception and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases. The policy makers in India which has the second biggest number of HIV cases in the world are yet to identify the wives as belonging to the risk category and there is no law available to protect her from having HIV transmitted to her. The only recourse for victims of marital rape is to apply for divorce on the grounds of cruelty. (For Christian women, another additional ground is required). Sadly when law makers perceive domestic violence as a crime, they have failed on marital rape. And the punishment for the raping a woman pending divorce is maximum two years and fine but if the same crime had been committed by any other man the minimum punishment would have been seven years |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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24 of 31 )
And finally rape against men by men isnt taken as seriously. When a woman who campaigned against child marriage(on behalf of govt) was gang raped in front of her husband and the judge lets off the accused saying the woman is old, and when a High court, lets off a man who had raped a child, inspite of proof, only because he kids of his own to support. these cases are just tip of the ice berg |
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| G3
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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25 of 31 )
I dont support death penalty. If the legal issues i have mentioned are taken up and supported sensitively by the police and judiciary. it will be a big improvement. Ultimately a rape victim has to get on with life. Perhaps it might take time to get laws implemented. But socially lets create an environment, where the victim is not further victimised. Only to Karapall - I dont disagree with u, when u mention anguish of raped woman, but personally - its easier isnt it to find criminals who will be willing to rape rather than men who dont think its odd to marry a rape victim and support her fight. |
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| Karapall
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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26 of 31 )
G3: "its easier isnt it to find criminals who will be willing to rape rather than men who dont think its odd to marry a rape victim and support her fight." That is hardly the point. I suggest you keep in mind the despicable law&order situation in India and the even worse justice system in India. The wheels of justice stopped moving a long time back. We can have all the best laws in the world, but if they cannot be enforced, then what is the point? Here we have rich kids in delhi who gang rape women on a daily basis with the full knowledge that their influential families will get them off the hook. When a person like Bharat Shah is going to escape from a prison sentence because all the witnesses are being intiimidated while the INCOMPETENT CRETINS in the justice system slowly move along, what makes you think that just because we have laws, it will get enforced? |
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| jwala
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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27 of 31 )
the rapists shud be hanged in public. v can talk about enforcing the present available legalities to get the culprit punished. hv u ever thot of the victim.. the kind of mental as well as physical torture she has to undergo? either she commits suicide or the hypocritic society force her to kill herself. how many of them survived this physical assault?? saying things easier but who will bell the cat?? so punishing like that in the Arabian country is a good solution. |
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| vikram99
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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28 of 31 )
"And how about women raping man?" Practically insignificant. We are dealing here with 'rules' and not 'exceptions' that are indulged in by 'freaks of nature'. Death penalty will surely act as a deterrent against virile animals who would just like to offload their frustrations into the nearest hole possible. And the hapless lady unfortunately happens to house that hole. |
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| vikram99
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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29 of 31 )
"If rape is sex against the will of a women, then even a wife can get her husband hanged ….just in case she wanna play foul?" You betcha it is! After all a wife is not just a fucking place. She is a person with a mind and heart too (in addition to the body). And if a man is not brainy enuf to see thru' the machinations of his wife, he is not fit to 'stay' alive !!! |
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| vikram99
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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30 of 31 )
“Just imagine a women who want to settle a score with a man. Just seduce him and call it a rape and get him hanged” You see, rape can be proved and proved clinically to be entirely different from a normal sexual intercourse. Love making brings out the human in you - rape the animal in you. Marriage is for the love makers, Hanging for the rapists. |
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| Karapall
11/27/2002 8:37:26 PM
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31 of 31 )
"We can have all the best laws in the world, but
if they cannot be enforced, then what is the point?"
A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion. Randy Thornhill and Craig T. Palmer. MIT Press, Cambridge, MA. 2000, 251 pp. (hardcover) US$28.95. Reviewed by Susan Hansen The Psychology of Rapists :: By Aurelia Thompson Although rape is an unpleasant topic to discuss, it is a fact of life that women are forced to keep in mind while making even minor decisions. As with other things, the best way to stay away from possibly adverse situations is to know the most you can about it. In this case, it is in a women's best interest to understand all that she can about rape and the profile of a rapist. There are many theories surrounding what influences a man to rape including domination, a severe lack of self-control, genes and evolution, and simple sexual gratification. The oldest and most widely accepted and theory is a combination of the need for sexual gratification and for domination. But recent studies have added new theories and have further complicated the reasoning for why scientists think rape is committed.THE EVOLUTION OF RAPISTS :: Biologist Randy Thornhill and anthropologist Craig Palmer pose one of the newest theories. Their theory is that men have actually evolved to be rapists. They argue that rape was a way for males to insure that their genes would not only be passed on, but also spread. The scientists don't endorse rape, but they say that it is a way for males to get what they want when attracting females in a non-aggressive way doesn't work. [dipping sex ratio, even a gloomier pic] They support their theory by including that primates, scorpion flies and dolphins do it too. But, even so, that no reason for supposedly intelligent and civilized beings to follow the action of animals. "LAURA, LEATHER, AND LIFE" :: A LECTURE BY LAURA ANTONIOU
Praful Bidwai :: The iron in our souls Sex, Myth and Politics :: An Interview with Riane Eisler"...For example, it used to be said, "if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it." Today, we recognize rape as a crime. It really is a form of terrorism against women to maintain women in their "place." It used to be that if a man beat a stranger, he went straight to jail. But if he beat someone he said he loved, someone he had sex with, well, walk him around the block. Now that is changing. The rights of children, the rights of women, are understood as human rights. We are moving toward what I call an integrated model of human rights where the rights of the majority, women and children, are no longer split off from human rights. This is of profound importance for women, children, and men, because it is in these personal, intimate relations that we first learn whether to accept human rights violations as "just the way things are." The repeal of the common law crime of rape. The new definition will be gender neutral, and will broaden the present definition of the sexual act required. Penetration is no longer limited to the insertion of the male penis into the female vagina. Insertion of the penis into the mouth or anus of another person (regardless of their gender) will be sufficient. In addition, any object inserted into the genital organs of another person in a manner that simulates sexual intercourse, will likewise be sufficient to constitute penetration under the new definition. The concept of consent to intercourse has also been revised. It is no longer necessary to prove that the woman did not consent to the intercourse, but the focus is rather on whether the intercourse took place under coercive circumstances. This will shift the focus off the conduct of the victim and place it on the conduct of the accused. Reform Efforts THE NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY. SA |
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