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galaxy 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 1 of 257 ) Nishi good points raised by you. Am reproducing a part of my post elsewhere on free speech as it is relevant to the points made by you. George Le Pen and Uma Bharati are a digrace to the tolerance of this land and its respect for womanhood. (All the more surprising when Uma Bharati claims to be a woman and a sanyasin.) Cleo talking of George Fernandes,under the head 'WB, George' referred to Macbeth. I do not know what exactly was in his mind. `In the chewing of gum, / Something wicked this way comes¿ thus spoke George Fernandes in Parliament, with Sanyasin Bharti the quality auditor for all that is Indian and Indian-ness (whatever that means) providing the endorsement. Le Pen saw the Jewish holocaust as a `detail¿ of history. There is nothing new about rape. Thus spoke the (quality certified) `Indian at heart¿ George Le Pen. Even when rape is part of a run up to `ethnic cleansing¿ and `genocide¿ for the Honorable Defence Minister of India, it is just another `detail¿ of History. This is not a 'detail of History' the NCERT and its indoctrinated 'historians' would ever like rewritten. A history of gory acts of commission and omission of the Congress party of India. Why ? Because it justifies the violence, hatred and discord that the fascist poiltics of the BJP epitomise. As VP singh recently said. The fight is between Fascism and Democracy. The mask of secularism being ripped off the BJP and its acolytes by the macabre dance of rape and death in Gujarat. These pseudo patriots,learn nothing and forget nothing. Unfortunately they are working hard at destroying our country , its culture and its leagacy of tolerance and respect for women. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 2 of 257 ) I completely share your anguish, Nishi, my friend. there's no point blaming the Georges and Umas, they were just giving voice to the words put on their mouth... what pains me most is the attitude of a laarge number of even educated indians towards the unspeakable cruelty inflicted upon innocent human beings in Gujarat: if you condemn Godhra outrage, you're a proud hindu... if you condemn the "reactionary" pogrom, you are a dirty pseudo-secularist pinko... if you condemn both, nobody gives you a damn... I just cannot understand, how a murderous regime - which deliberately watched in silence (and with barely concealed glee) as a frenzied mob unleashed a cruel death dance - can generate such a public approval (even admiration), that it dares to talk of hurrying the elections ? have the public at large in Gujarat have stooped so low ???... i wonder how long will it be before the rest of India follows suit..... |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 3 of 257 ) Exactly my worry Viking.. I tend to wonder |
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sahu_007 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 4 of 257 ) "Can you still chant without remorse the song that you learnt as a child 'Saare jahan se achha Hindustan hamara'. I cant anymore" I can still sing "Saare jahan se achha Hindustan hamara" because it is. No doubt this Gujarat incident as ashamed me as nothing before. But I have faith in me and in other Indians that soon things will improve. And it really matters when others say "Saare jahan se achha Hindustan." It will happen if and only each and every individual execute his own responsibilty truthfully and stops giving lecture to others and stops chatting on so called hot issues for hours on crossroads or pan shops. One need not be a socialite to do something great. Jai Hind |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 5 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Nishi : I can understand your grief, but done lose hope yet. We - the people who believe in India's traditions of "Vasundhara Kutumbakam" (The world is our family) need to speak out firmly with reason against the perpetrators who commit and encourage such acts. They only need realise that they are weak before they change their raging roars to meager mewing. India is the best nation in the world and so it will be forever. Everybody has to fight illness and malaise within to become strong. So shall we and we shall overcome. Welcome to another sane minded Indian on this forum. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 6 of 257 ) "No doubt this Gujarat incident as ashamed me as nothing before. But I have faith in...." isn't everybody saying these very words in one form or other ?? i mean EVERYBODY. the bjp, the rss, the vhp, the learned elites, the media, (i'm sure the hoodlums that torched the sabarmathi would have similar sentiments to express...) what the "boys" did was wrong..*BUT* it had to be done... this is a blot on the country's image..*BUT* the muslims cannot live in peace... womb of pregnent woman was cut open..*BUT* this has happened before what happened in guj is unfortunate..BUT modi is a god ... |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 7 of 257 ) Viking.. That's a good point. Why are we.. pseudo seculaist, pseudo nationalist and pseudo- MB posters, not drawing a line. what ever you ideology each one must have a personal code of ethics. What ever happens, I am never going to kill a defenseless person. Killing of defenseless people is the highest form of cowardice and barbaric. That is where we must draw the line. It would be good if all of us here at least stick that one ideal. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 8 of 257 ) Viking.. That's a good point. Why are we.. pseudo seculaist, pseudo nationalist and pseudo- MB posters, not drawing a line. what ever your ideology each one must have a personal code of ethics. Whatever happens, I am never going to kill a defenseless person. Killing of defenseless people is the highest form of cowardice and barbaric. That is where we must draw the line. It would be good if all of us here at least stick that one ideal. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 9 of 257 ) sahu_007, please listen, i have no problems with "action-reaction" riots or bullshit or whatever. they come and go... i do worry when those at the power take sides in the riots and i do worry more when the public seem to approve (and even ADMIRE) it.. this IS a new phenomenon in India, (at least as far as I know) |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 10 of 257 ) nice words gandalf, let me refine - every India loving true indian MUST have one clause in his/her personal code of conduct: I will unquestioningly obey and fear the law of this land. Period. Fear and obedience for the law of the land of India alone (and nothing else) makes me an Indian. see, while in US, i obey the US law more than the avrage US citizen... while in UK, i fear the british law more than the british themselves...and so on everywhere... but i dont feel a pinch when I overstep the indian law while in my beloved India... Apply this yardstick to all of us self-proclaimed Indian patriots, my friend, and i am sure only few of us would qualify. Let's go out to loot and kill and rape and plunder to our heart's content WHEN the Law of our land gives us the license to do so. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 11 of 257 ) nice words gandalf, let me refine - every India loving true indian MUST have one clause in his/her personal code of conduct: I will unquestioningly obey and fear the law of this land. Period. Fear and obedience for the law of the land of India alone (and nothing else) makes me an Indian. see, while in US, i obey the US law more than the avrage US citizen... while in UK, i fear the british law more than the british themselves...and so on everywhere... but i dont feel a pinch when I overstep the indian law while in my beloved India... Apply this yardstick to all of us self-proclaimed Indian patriots, my friend, and i am sure only few of us would qualify. Let's go out to loot and kill and rape and plunder to our heart's content WHEN the Law of our land gives us the license to do so. |
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brijesh 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 12 of 257 ) Just by disapproving what happened in gujrat is not the solution to the problem and nor does it highlight the actual cause of all this mess. May be what Uma bharati said made no sense nor did george sound good. May be approval of riots by majority is a new trend in indian penensula which has shocked many of us. But why doesnt anybody try, understanding the feelings of the people who are considered as the black spot over humanity due to this riot. People say it was planned from long. The local government had lot to do with it. Arundhati Roy went to an extent of critisizing every single person in the government. She is filled with rage about what has happened to muslims in gujrat in last few days. But did she or many of us ever think of what had happened to the other community from last so many years in fact centuries. We rightly sympathize for the people who were killed and think this to be a darkest crime, expecting to hang all those who are found guilty. But when will we realise that this is a negligible reaction to even more darker crime that continues to happen from centuries over the people of non-muslim community. Yes, I personally dislike this kind of reactive behaviour but not all can supress their feelings of bitterness and always keep acting ok. It had to be vented out. And this is just a start to a reaction to a long evolutionary supression of feelings. -Brijesh Continued in the next message..... |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 13 of 257 ) Vik.. thats exactly why one needs a personal moral code (which should have been the product of our 'hallowed' civilization) Just becase the law and its eforcement is weak does not mean we should define our lives by its loopholes. Thats my point |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 14 of 257 ) "Yes, I personally dislike this kind of reactive behaviour but..." Lo, here's another but(t)... well, well, well, keep it up |
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brijesh 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 15 of 257 ) A bigger problem is what is the solutiion to this. Before giving away the solution let me highlight some more facts which may help us draw a correct solution. Let us start with a problem that has a more global perspective. Jerusalem, it is the most sacred place to the Jews, christians and 3rd most sacred to the muslims. But muslins just refuse to accept that the other two communities do share some religios sentiments with the place. Somewhere in middle of 20th century the jews welcomed muslims to share the place but were responded with a rufusal to accept jews. This enraged the jews leading to them capturing the place. How well rationaled do we think is the action of muslims. Why cant the live in harmony with other members of soceity obeying rules common to all? Why do they insist on all following that non-muslim means traiter to God? And if I call this fanatism I may be critisized of being a follower of extremism. Leave the world outside islam. Lets enter into the islamic world. We hardly find peace and harmony inside them too. Their behaviour towards the women is worse then that given to a dumb animal. Woman is a thing to enjoy in islam. They are given a secondary status in the religion itself. Majority of cases of father raping his own daughter come from nowhere but a muslim populous state. I dont want to arouse someones feeling by saying this but this is merely a fact. The sacred text of Islam, Quran, there is a huge doubt over the geniunity of this text as it is very well said in quran itself that god narrated this text to mohammed who did not write this and was just passed orally for years. Lastly I will like to prominantly show what happens when quran is exectly followed by what happened in afghanistan when taliban ruled it. -Brijesh To be continued............. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 16 of 257 ) "And this is just a start...." that's a six... Ooooo Man!, you scare the hell out of me ! |
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iqbal 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 17 of 257 ) I am fully agree with Nishi. These Riots start a new tradition in india till this time Raping not happen in such way neither in 1984 delhi nor in punjab , nor in kashmir. But Gujrat gave a new tradition. Which coz poblems for all parents of young daughters.I too feel shame on these stupids they don't realize, what they hv started this can create a problem tomorrow for themselves too. |
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Sameer28 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 18 of 257 ) Brijesh..you seem to be prejiduced about some misconceptions on islam and moslems. you delibrately state some distorted facts..it was not the jews who invited moslems on the contarary it was the moslems who invited the prosecuted jews to come and live with them and talking about the holiness about the site, it doesnt matter it is first or third,, it is holy and moslems have the mosque there from time immemorial. you call the moslems unfriendly and unsafe..nothing farther than truth.. today it is the moslem countries which are safest and fastest growing. Moslems in minority are always tried to be suppressed as you see now in India, Godhra was an accident as reported by the whole of Indian and international media and the aftermath is a pogram by the militant BJP. If you want to call this revenge how is it justified to kill the small children and rape women!! |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 19 of 257 ) sameer28, dickhead matherchot. was it justified to kill hundreds of thousands of hindus and rape their women and kill their children to get pakistan. was it justified to throw all hindus and sikh people out of pakistan who have been living there for thousands of years (hindus). was it justified to kill millions of hindus and muslims in bangladesh before it's creation. why is it that in almost all these incidents it is the muslims who start the trouble, rape, and loot. could you care to justify this you lying imbecile. gadhe ke aulad, suwar ke bache mind your fucking anti-hindu hatred. the time has come when hindus will react violently to provications. enough is enough. muslim animals are turning hindus into anilmals. control the muslim jehadi matherchots and the pakistani cocksuckers who are creating the problem. gujarat will not happen again if these sisterfucking assholes are controlled or eliminated. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 20 of 257 ) nishi, fuck off. get on with your soap opera soemwhere else. |
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nishi 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 21 of 257 ) Mera Bharat Mahan ! Really ? I really pity people like Luwman who only love the words hate and revenge. What about your mother and sisters. If someone comes along and rapes and then hacks the fetus out of your pregnant sister and then kills her and does the same to you mother, would you be happy if he asked you "What about all the women who were raped, hacked and burnt in Gujarat ?" You cannot go around killing people of the same religion just because some of them are bad or do bad things. What about so many Hindus who steal and are corrupt, who rape and loot. Does that mean all Hindus are bad and ought to be killed ? Statements like who did it first etc. dont work and make sense. The actions of one person or a few agitated individuals do not become the basis to cast aspersions on an entire society. Going by your logic and assuming that youre a devout Hindu (which I dont think you are), most Hindus are women abusing and molesting maniacs who like nothing more than killing Muslims and Christians. I am a Hindu and I know that what you say and what people like you do is WRONG and no matter what you say or what you do to change my opinion I know that in your heart you too know that you are on the wrong path. All humans have a conscience. |
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Kunal 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 22 of 257 ) Mr. Luvvmann ( though you don't seem to have any traces of either luv or manhood), would you mind using some sensible language in this forum? Your message was so cheap in its content that it is not even worth getting a space in VHP newsletter, leave aside this discussion forum. You show your class and expose your family background by using these dirty words, alongwith your narrow and partisan ideas. A dead indian is a dead indian, not hindu or muslim. People like you just get fooled by greedy politicians and forget all sense of logic and humanity. Go and get your brain checked with Dr. Bal Thackerey. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 23 of 257 ) kunal and nishi, you suffer from what is called moral amnesia. my language is not as dangerous as your cowardly bullshit ideas. why is your moral outrage exhibited only when muslims are killed. did i condone the violence in gujarat. i did not. i do not agree with your viewpoint about gujarat. you are living in a dream land. gujarat has nothing to do with VHP/RSS/BJP etc. it has to do with hindu muslim relations or the lack of it. nobody in his right mind wants to kill a pregnant woman. do you believe that i would condone such a thing. the fact is the media is encouraging muslim violence ,so that, the country is engulfed in flames. the congress is doing that also to gain political power. they care a hoot for muslim lives. the coverage on rape and pregnant women is deliberate to incite muslim passions. if a hindu woman was subjected to it (and it has happened in my own locality)not a word is uttered by the media. they will not even mention the incident or report erroneously. the hypocracy has to stop before the country descends into civil war. the reason for all this is the continued muslim extremism and jehadi mentality being exploited by unscrupulous parties like the congress. does the bitch sonia gandhi really care for muslims. she did not give a damn for 3000 sikh lives in delhi in 1984 murdered by her congreessmen. grow up and don't live in a dream land. the VHP/RSS are a thousand times better than the congresswalas and communist opportunists. and stupid idiots like you think no end of yourself with your moral posturing. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 24 of 257 ) The saffron pseudo-patriots are in a way rejoicing at what happened at Gujarat. The paki banana republic is also delighted at what happened in Guj. i never thought that there could be something in which we and the pakis can be winner at the same time... hats off to you, blind and bigoted pseudo-patriotic fools ! |
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Sameer28 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 25 of 257 ) Well said Nishi, it is not being a muslim or Hindu, it is being human..the likes of Lawmann or anyone who can use such a dirty language online can be imagined not to be human or atleast with consience. Rape is not just an act,it more than kills the person who is raped, it has social stigma and a pshycological disaster. Killing sounds lot better!! Mr. Lawmann..is an animal and no one can ask animals to be men!! He can talk dirty and think others cant..they can but they donot want to stoop to his level. India, which is such a beautiful country is governed by these types of idiots, which makes Indians abroad to say..we are ashamed of the present India even though we are proud to be Indians..I am sure the people like Lawmann are in minority and they are, we Indians will prove to the world that Lawmann and others are a few parasites which are there in every society..I hope these parasites don't infect the peace loving Indians to no return position. |
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raul 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 26 of 257 ) Nishi, I agree fully with your views - "Any country or its people are adjudged by the treatment that is given to women, the destitute and the downtrodden." I am ashamed to call myself an Indian after what happened in Gujarat. George Fernandes was exposing his moral bankruptcy when he tried to justify the rapes and killings as commonplace events in today's India. It is hightime that we Indians realise the human tragedy behind each rape and each murder by crazed communalists. People like Luwman who repeatedly try in every kind of forum to justify such crimes are criminals themselves, and should be condemned by all. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 27 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Luwman : In any post that you write, you say nothing more than this : (1) The Congress killed Sikhs, give them justice first and then talk about the BJP and Gujarat. You say they are the only ones who exploit minorities for power. How about BJP exploiting the majority to come to power ? Your logic is pathetic and lacks objectivity. If indeed the BJP is so pious why didnt it prosecute the accused in the 1984 riots ? Simple ! They are all the same - they save their own skin while they wouldnt mind skinning the public alive for their own interests. (2) Muslims were killed and deserve to be so because they kill and rape and no one talks about it and when others do it the media goes all out in its coverage. Absolute hogwash. The media is sane minded majority and does factual reporting. But then Saamna and Organiser are also the media. Thats where you get your news bytes dont you ? Get out of the dark and learn to use your head than simply repeat what the RSS/VHP pays you to repeat in English. Then again they choose only those without a substantial cerebral content. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 28 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Nishi et al : Our policy should be to marginalise and ignore people like Luvvman. The more attention you give them the better chance they get to propagate their militant taliban like ideology. Such people ought to be tried for slander and disturbing the peace and sent to jail. When words should offer sympathy, idiots and morons of his like have the audacity to come and justify and contrast the reality with precedent. Whatever happened to humanity and compassion. Most probably they are those who have had troubled childhoods and are hand picked to propagate an agenda of hate. |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 29 of 257 ) All, I have read enough messages on this board and other MB's to beleive the following: 1. Almost everybody agrees that India is in grave danger! 2. Almost everybody is shameful of what happened in Gujrat. 3. Almost everybody views Gujrat as rape of mankind and human rights. 4. Almost everybody seems ashamed to be called an Indian. 6. Almost everybody agrees that politicians have taken us for a ride. 7. Almost everybody agrees that Hindu or Muslim fanaticism is bad for INDIA. I dont disagree. Now here are some thoughts for you: 1. 5000 people killed in Bhopal. 2. Indian soldiers killed by Bangladesh. 3. Thousands dead in Orissa famine. 4. Parents sell their kids for food in Kalahandi. 5. Thousands died in Gujrat & Madhya Pradesh draught. 6. Thousands buried in Gujrat earthquake. 7. Indian soldiers killed in Kargil war. Just like these issues are not in mind in most of the people on this board, I dare say Gujrat would be forgotten after 2 months. Between 1992 to 2002 Gujrat has had 8 riots and all we are doing is being ashamed! Oh yeah we were ashamed all the time did we ever learn? No!! Sorry Nishi and all I am not ashamed of being Indian or singing 'Saare Jahan se achcha'. I still am a proud Indian who tries to make small difference. I am ashamed of incapable people on this MB who will put their thoughts here and forget after 2 months! Care to tell me if I am wrong? Saurabh |
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nishi 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 30 of 257 ) Mera Bharat Mahan ! Really ? saurabhs : 'I am ashamed of incapable people on this MB who will put their thoughts here and forget after 2 months! Care to tell me if I am wrong?' Saurabh you are trying to imply that we just speak and do nothing. I would contest that. All the things you mention are very tragic. But the Gujarat incident isnt just another riot or act of government apathy. It is the visceral desecration of the Indian constitution and the right of every woman to live with dignity. Maybe not all of us will remember after 2 months. Maybe you will and I will and an ocean always begins with a few drops. |
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brijesh 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 31 of 257 ) Sorry for delay in continuing with the last part of the previos message... Coming back to the problem in india. Along with this communnal division in our society, pseodo-secularism, as rightly said by many of them, is what is killing India internally. The issue of minority community is what first comes into my mind. Go anywhere in the world it is human survival instincts that make minority group stand united. Hence they become a major factor as a garenteed vote bank. This is what has always kept the minority people in india aloof from actually following secularism. A sikh carrying a kirpan can go anywhere in public places. And a person other than sikh does this he breaches law and puts public security at stake. Muslim are givem total control over their religious places and when it comes to temples government insists following rules and appointments are done by government. How about the different laws for different communities. The bais in treating such different social issues only because someone is from minority community will no longer be tolerated. If all this continues it is sure to have a more greater emotional explosion by the people who are in majority. Nor do I support majority suppressing the minority. We need a more solid implemetation of secularism with its true meaning coming out. We do respect other religions. But this religion business of one should be limited inside ones house. No religious duties will be tolerated on streets, irrespective of what religion one is. Rules for holy places should be same for all religions. The only religion that you need to follow in public is that of humanity. But realization of this harmony can only be initiated by strong government support and rules. Hence the issue comes on us like a boomerang where we as educated citizens of India need to decide who should go in the parliament. It appears so easy but still it is well known fact that we will always be ruled by people like Laloo and Jayalalitha. Everything is at chaos and leading to more chaos than attaining even a bit of harmony. And with intellectuals flying out of india at an increasing rate our motherland and the land of our ancesters will only cease to be a junkyard on earth. Lets hope it never happens so and try our level best for it. --- Jai hind Be proud to be an indian. - Brijesh |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 32 of 257 ) All, I would be happy if atleast some of us remember Gujrat down the road and learn from it. We Indian always have had short memory. How else do you explain people jumping over each other to welcome the same person who started Kargil and killed so many of our soldiers. I am afraid people are making a mistake of joining the 'in thing' bandwagon. That of feeling shame in singing Saare Jehan se achcha! Let me remind you that patriotism is not event driven! Dont go around changing your patriotic fervour after every incident. Gujrat is a big blot on us however we need to take action not act stupid and feel 'ashamed'!!! Thats what we have been doing all along anyway! Only yesterday my roommates were feeling shameful of Gujrat and when I asked what could we do as Indians outside USA they had no clue! Bottomline they left everything and went to a strip bar! So much so for feeling ashamed!!! Of course we have some genuine people too. I just hope they are more in numbers. Nishi, if you feel Gujrat is worse than other tragedies I rest my case! Just goes on to show in India we only rally in the name of religion nothing else. After 50 years of independence people sell their kids for food in Kalahandi. What could be possibly more shameful than that?? Saurabh |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 33 of 257 ) Saurabhs #29 & #32: "if you feel Gujrat is worse than other tragedies I rest my case!..." yes, this Gujrat tragedy is worse in the sense that this is the first time that a democratically elected government of a state of India behaved like a fascist ruler of a banana republic (how about a parallel to Robert Mugabe ??), and still finding its popular rating skyrocketing !! i completely agree with you, that we have numerous problems on which we need to feel "ashamed" about. look at your list at #29. does any of them threatens the very fabric of the unity of our lovely nation ?. NO. instead, kargil and kalahandi only serve to bind us more strongly together as indians... but look at this dirty episode. somebody who has taken a solemn oath to uphold the constitution under all circustances has brazenly thrown that oath to the winds... and many among us indians (including the rulers of India) don't seem to have problems with it... how long will it be before the gujarat virus infects other states and other non-religious conflicts ?... what we ought to do, if tomorrow, say karnataka unleashes a genocide on the tamils citing gujarat as a precedence ? |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 34 of 257 ) Viking, I would suggest you read my whole post in entirety and try to understand what I am trying to convey. I am condoning Gujrat from all my heart but to say that I am ashamed is ridiculous! I am ashamed at the apathy of Indians! People die in Kalahandi and at the same time foodgrains rot in Government godown! Thousand people killed in Bhopal and most of them still havent received any compenastion! I wonder what makes you think Indians are bound together by such incidences! We dont give two hoots simple! Todays mess is our very own creation. You are completly wrong when you say the popularity of Government is skyrocketing. In fact it is going down immensly. Common citizens are sick of this Government but dont worry they wont be heard! Its like Bombay scenario where evrybody(Hindu & Muslim) hates Shiv Sena for lawlessness but still they come to power more often than not! I am not saying to turn a blind eye towards Gujrat! I am just asking Indians to leave lethargy and cowardice behind or wait for more Gujrat, Kalahandi,Kargil. As Abe Lincoln said 'People get the Government they deserve!' Take a look at what Mr. Gill said the other day Q: What are your plans for Gujarat? A: When there is communal violence, people shed crocodile tears as long as it lasts. Then they forget about it. I am looking ahead and intend to make plans that will serve the state 10 or 15 years down the line. There is no point in making short-term plans and lapse into lethargy once the immediate problems have been sorted out. This is exactly what I am talking about. feeling shameful is a fashion statement for most of us today(not all). That we have let situation come to this hand is shameful. I appreciate the genuine concern of people but I dare say people have been very liberal with sentiments and would forget it after 2-3 months. Saurabh |
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nishi 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 35 of 257 ) Mera Bharat Mahan ! Really ? saurabhs - Tell me one thing sugar plum. Sitting in the US with your buddies what did you do to help the relief effort in Gujarat ? At my university the students collected about 40K Rupees for the displaced which they handed over to the citizens initiative. So before you cry hoarse over everything bad thats going on, also take the initiative to do something small like us. How about you take up the cause of people selling their kids in Kalahandi. Tell us how you fared in that. Otherwise youre no better than the short memoried people that you speak of. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 36 of 257 ) Surabhs, May be i didn't get you or may be we are talking in different directions. all these expression of Shame is a way of acknowledging the fact that some events have happened in our country which the international community would invariably regard with disgust. You do that too, in your own way. We know, we cannot anymore easily convince our friends abroad about the wonderful pluralistic democracy we have in india. i am sad, because there is also a second group of indians, even educated ones, who are not even prepared to acknowledge that what happened was terribly obnoxious from an international perspective. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 37 of 257 ) contd... But you are a step ahead of me. What you seem to be dismayed at is that we stop at that, and worse, we forget that issue completely, only to move on to the next "in thing". I concede. But i add that this is a sort of watershed event, that we can not afford to be like this anymore. Because if we do, we would be openning the doors for any state govt to unleash a genocide on any section of its subjects for any reason, religious or non-religious. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 38 of 257 ) contd... the question still begs: WHAT DO WE DO ? respect and obey the law of our land like you do anywhere else... WHAT ELSE ? BTW, you say at #34, "I am condoning Gujrat from all my heart but to..." shouldn't it be condemning or something like that ?? to condone is to overlook or forgive.... |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 39 of 257 ) Why do we have so many threads if we are going to all talks of the same thing? Anyway SAMEER.. a lot of the fuel to the fire and bigots is there is a definite problem in Muslim countries with regard to Minorities. IT would be really helpful if Mulim countries practised what they preached. Mainstream Muslims do not question and research objectively. That is the fundemental problem in Muslim societies. Every Christian country allows freedom of worship.. so does mainstream india. This is because there is a differentiation between the state and religion in most Xtian countires and the India I dreamt of. Not so in most Muslim countries except Ataturk's Turkey |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 40 of 257 ) eg. if i were like lowman.. I would want everyone in the world to be gay. Hindhus would like to live in a Hindhu world, Xtians In a Xtian world and so on. But we know that realty is different.. so we learn to adapt and Hey presto.. life is not as bad among variety as we imagined!. That is wat Muslims should aim else..its unnecessary tension |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 41 of 257 ) nishi, Well well! Seems like I touched a raw nerve somewhere! Dont try to act civilized if you get rattled by simple questions and dont get personal! When you cant defend your own thoughts what will you do for this great country of ours!!! I dont want to get personal with you but I dont take things lying down too. Hope that makes sense down your stupid brain!! As for what I have done let me tell you once and for all that I am student of a premier Engg institute of India. I was up in Kalahandi during summer time with my colleagues when you were going around social circles sipping drinks and crying over issues!!! I have seen things with closer quarters than what you will ever see you dork! You did great with your University why are you trying to cash it?? I did that for Bhopal, Kargil, Gujrat and still feel I could have done 10 times more!!! You need not agree with me and thats quite fine with me. However what gives you the right to make personal attacks?I would have appreciated if you could pick up a point of my post and told me where I was going wrong(like Viking).Obviously your small brain couldnt handle that! If you cant debate better shut up!!! |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 42 of 257 ) Viking, Me and you are not talking in different directions. We are essentially trying to solve the same problem but we are talking of different solutions.Seems to me you are talking more of change on ground while I suggest change on ground plus a change in mental atitude of Indians. And thats quite fine with me. I never said my solution is the best. But keep in mind' If you dont learn from history we are bound to repeat the same mistakes in future'! I wish to differ a bit on International community reaction on Gujrat. We have to fix the problem not because of what the world thinks of us but because its a disease we cant afford to neglect. India didnt have riots before 1947(not much anyway). But it is becoming a regular phemonenon. Only Gujrat has had more than 10 riots in 10 years! I wont be wrong to say that slowly but surely a drift is coming between us Indians. I am sure the time has come when we shoule be more assertive. I am not attacking you for feeling ashamed. I am asking what after this? Have we done our duty or do we not need to follow up? We have had a lot of discussions on other MB's regarding the International community response to Gujrat. I suggest you read some of those. They are quite nice. Let me be the first to admit that I dont know what we really can do. What we can certainly do is send contributions, put messages on post and letters to media to show what we feel. Take a look at some of the Western media news and see how they are portraying India. Seems Muslims across the country be in Bihar or Kerela are in grave danger! As much as I hate the current situation in Gujrat I cant let my country being painted like a villain across the world. I have shot lot of mails hope you guys can do some too. Saurabh |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 43 of 257 ) Suarbhs #42: "...you are talking more of change on ground while I suggest change on ground plus a change in mental atitude of Indians...." which is why i said you are a step ahead of me. |
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rav666 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 44 of 257 ) This is a wonderful editorial on today's ToI. It's got nothing to do with Gujarat and lot to do with our 'golden culture': Anil Kumble is not your average cricket player. He’s been there, done that. In fact, no less than Wisden — cricket’s bible — has acknowledged his mastery of leg-spin bowling. In any case, even if he were overshadowed by other yet-to-be-discovered prodigious talents, for cricket loving Indians, Kumble shall always be a god. For the man has achieved what few Indians have: he has single-handedly overpowered Pakistan by capturing all 10 wickets in an innings. Given his glorious record, it’s quite understandable that jaws should have literally dropped open in utter astonishment, when Kumble defied pain and walked out to bowl during the Antigua Test with his fractured mandible precariously lodged in a brace. Indeed, bewildered spectators and commentators alike wondered what Kumble was trying to prove by returning to the field at considerable risk to his physical well-being. They didn’t have to wait too long for answers. Cynics carped that Kumble’s was a publicity stunt aimed at resurrecting a flagging career. Let’s not forget, they said, that the leggie’s position in the Indian team is under threat, that increasingly people are beginning to question his prowess and that Antigua was his litmus test. Therefore, they argued, if Kumble did opt to bowl, it was not out of any particular regard for the team, but in the interest of self-preservation — only a particularly brave selector would drop such a ‘committed’ performer. Then of course there were those who believed that the leggie’s feat symbolised his commitment to the cause of Indian cricket — to Mother India itself. Soon Kumble — the republican, the ultimate son of the soil — was being compared to the Mahatma, the Indian jawan and even Bhagat Singh. A case of people over-reacting? No. For people do tend to look desperately for heroes in times of despair. Thankfully, Kumble has scotched all such speculation by supplying an answer. We now know that Kumble did only what he was being paid to do. Wonder why we had such a tough time accepting that? If only we would do what we are paid to do.......... |
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bose12 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 45 of 257 ) Where were these voices calling for shame when kashmiri pandits were hounded out of the kashmir valley by the muslims? It seems double standards apply here!! Why dont these people then tell the entire islamic world to be ashamed of calling themselves muslim??? |
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munna 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 46 of 257 ) nishi, When you feel outrage towards Lowmann, I can understand. But that towards a sane/rational person like Saurabh seems misplaced. These days, you will agree, what is sane/rational to like-minded persons like us is commie/pseudo-secular/anti-national to a lot of people. WE NEED TO KEEP OUR HERD TOGETHER. |
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munna 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 47 of 257 ) nishi, When you feel outrage towards Lowmann, I can understand. But that towards a sane/rational person like Saurabh seems misplaced. These days, you will agree, what is sane/rational to like-minded persons like us is commie/pseudo-secular/anti-national to a lot of people. WE NEED TO KEEP OUR HERD TOGETHER. |
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sonia 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 48 of 257 ) when some body makes mistake, why you want all indians to feel shame?. This is ridiculous. when arbs hit wtc, saudis did not feel shame about it.Those who are doing crime whether they are hindu,muslim or whatever religion they belong to, they must be brought to justice. The best way to avoid these kind of things is not to differentiate people based on religion. Simple thing, treat others, the way you want others to treat you. That's it. Period. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 49 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Sonia My darling girl, assuming that youre not some hypocrite with an assumed name - the conversation here isnt talking about religion. It simply is asking if you as an Indian are ashamed of what happened in Gujarat. I was, not only in Gujarat but there are so many things that shame me to no end. But then I am proud of my nation for its resilience and strength that it still manages to be a cohesive driving force in the world arena. Common place nations like Pakistan or Yugoslavia have been broken and destroyed because of similar happenings. Thankfully, our nation had many quiet and sane individuals that combat the clamourous fundamentalists and let reason prevail. So use reason before you post something totally inrelated to the subject. |
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Viking 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 50 of 257 ) Sonia #48: "when arbs hit wtc, saudis did not feel shame about it." but then, wtc did not happen with the support or participation of saudi GOVT either, right ? many people express their anguish here more at our govts's conduct during the days of the riots than at the massacre itself. |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 51 of 257 ) Viking, I dont want to interrupt you and Sonia. Just wanted to say that 911 could very well have been supported by Saudis! How much we may never know but if they have I wont be surprised! They are a bunch of crooks excelling in such ridiculous endeavour. Carry on you two.. Saurabh |
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sonia 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 52 of 257 ) To Jbindra, I am not your darling girl. You should feel shame to use such words. I will not feel shame for some CM's and his/her officials mistakes. I will not vote for them next time. That is the best action that can be taken if you feel proud about you and your nation. I will feel shame only when I do mistake and not for others. That will reduce my self image. |
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brijesh 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 53 of 257 ) Dear Sameer28 (5/11/2002 12:06:29 PM # 18) It was not me who has given this facts but they were my findings through what I read in various famous encyclopedia. I am not here to spread something that is not ratified by respectfull people and organisations in the world. And my prejiduce about some misconceptions on islam and moslems are not mine but of many muslim intellectuals itself. Many of the problems in islam were discussed by muslim scholars on CNN before few months. It was clearly shown with example that how good things in Quran are distorted by clergy class of Islam. For latest insight on this issue I would like you to read article in New York Times on fate of raped women in Pakistan. Is this what you call progress??? Muslims need to understand the true meaning of Quran at first which is very practical, stren and rational it its writings than the way it is practiced. I would like you to know Quran through the speeches and writings of malaysian prime minister Dr Mahathir Mohammad. He is who really follows Quran that pretending to do so. Please read everything with an unbiased mind. And I hope you get the point. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 54 of 257 ) Brajesh: do a search on "rape in India" or Dalit rape etc. Stop farting with one sided material, most people on the board are above that level. Good sensible guys, but sexist as always. Sonia was perfectly valid and addressing a core issue.. We waste our time rousing antagonism.. to what end? |
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brijesh 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 55 of 257 ) Dear Gandalf, Your level is clear from the kind of language you use. And I have never given any one sided material but only that is significant for the discussion. I am aware of the facts about dalit rapes and non of my messages convey support to such animallike behaviour. Please dont get angry and deny facts by calling sexist behaviour for something you cant defend. I hope we are here not to stop people from talking but if you feel someone is really not of your grade please be sensible enough to make him understand than bawl out words that dont really reflect a good level. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 56 of 257 ) Brijesh.. 'sexist' behaviour was referring to the statement calling Sonia "a darling girl". Maybe you did not understand the word. It is not a derogatory word or does not mean that you are a sex starved maniac or anythng like that. Your point on the specifics of Islam are very subjective and would be more credible if you accept the same weaknesses are in sections of our society. |
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munna 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 57 of 257 ) Brijesh, Sorry to come in late.. Your point about Mahathir Mohemmad is a nice one. Musims, in general, need role models like him. But we have some awesome achievers in Muslims in India itself. Justice Ahmadi(ex Chief Justice), Mr Khan (Head of CBI), APJ Abdul Kalam, etc. etc.. I wish they would do more for Muslim youth.. |
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munna 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 58 of 257 ) Brijesh, Sorry to come in late.. Your point about Mahathir Mohemmad is a nice one. Musims, in general, need role models like him. But we have some awesome achievers in Muslims in India itself. Justice Ahmadi(ex Chief Justice), Mr Khan (Head of CBI), APJ Abdul Kalam, etc. etc.. I wish they would do more for Muslim youth.. |
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munna 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 59 of 257 ) jbindra, I protest against your use of words. "My darling girl" is absolutely sexist and derogatory. I wish you had used better judgement. You might be 60yrs old and she might be 6 yrs old for all I care but in a public forum you cannot address somebody esp a lady like that. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 60 of 257 ) We shall overcome. My Darling Girl I am quite taken aback that a phrase used in common parlance should be lent the intention that it was purported to be sexist. It was not to condescend or offend anyone. If you have had the opportunity to read some literature you would realise that phraseology such as "My darling girl", "jolly old chap", "our boy" et al are used quite often. I offer my apologies, I should have had better judgement to discern that such lingo may not be acceptable as it is not in common usage in India. I hope that all assailed parties have found recompense and that the fiery embers of hatred and condemnation that once burned bright now lie estinguished in their heart. |
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drao6255 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 61 of 257 ) "MY DARLING GIRL" - Oh is that sexist and derogatory ?? When did this MB become so righteous ? Looks like I have been away for a little too long. OOPS !! Didn't know Sonia was a contributor to the board. Thought we were talking about the SONIA, Sonia Gandhi. Good.. I was about to use the B word, instead of 'my darling girl' :-) DR |
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drao6255 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 62 of 257 ) So NISHI !! You mean to say then that you chanted "sare jahaan se achha..." before all this happened. Wake up !! Open your eyes. We were never sare jahaan se achha and we never will be, atleast in our lifetime... People like you should get out of this emotional BS and face reality.. Where do these people come from.. makes you wonder... |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 63 of 257 ) Drao6255, Nishi is one extreme of world and you are another one!!! We were always Saare jehan se achcha. I have always belived in it and have no reservations about it even today. I have met some real good people and seen great points thrown in here on this MB and others. Of course I run into farce like you intending to think they are realist! Why dont you put some points what makes you think that way rather than some shady abstract views??? Makes me wonder actually!!!! |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 64 of 257 ) Nishi, you need to understand that you SUPPORT YOUR NATION, no matter what. If you are displeased with the political direction of the nation, you work INTERNALLY to neutralize. WHAT YOU DO NOT DO is denigrate fellow Indians because they are not "as civilized and suave" as you are thanks to your superior english convent education. Indians may fight each other internally, just as people do in other countries, but in the end the solution has to be internal and has to be because of genuine calming down of mutual suspicion and paranoia. People like you dont help when you paint all Indians with one stroke without seeing the larger picture and the reality around us. Did that get into your thick skull?? you stupid whore. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 65 of 257 ) "Did that get into your thick skull?? you stupid whore." Karapall.. forget about the nation.. you are denigrating your Pop and Mom here. But then you would not know what that means would you? |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 66 of 257 ) this stupid topic started by nishi is a joke. gujarat is hindu muslim violence that is going on for centuries. what indians need to be ashamed of is this- how long is muslim communalism going to be tolerated in india. how long will muslim fanatics rule the roost. how long will hindu cowards put up with muslim non-sense. it has already resulted in pakistan. now kashmir is burning. how long will shameless hindu bastards allow the country to be ripped apart by muslim communalism and hindu-non action. when will the hindus rise up and fight the muslims. the people who are at fault are not the muslims, but the hindus. every time a muslim raises his hand a hundred hindus should raise theirs. every time muslims indulge in violence, hindus should retaliate with force. every temple that is attacked should be followed by a hundred attacks on mosques. every indian soldier that is killed in kashmir should be avenged with the death of a hundred pakistani soldiers. hindus in general are a bunch of fucking cowards who have allowed muslims to conquer them and then allowed the english to rule tham. unless and until the hindus develop a spine and stand up for what belongs to them, there will be violence. thank god for the large pool of hindus, there are still a few hindus left with guts who are protecting the indian state. a massive attack on muslim fanatics in india and pakistan is the only solution to achieve peace. a total and all out war against muslim communalism is the only solution. there is no other way. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 67 of 257 ) Nishi, you are a stupid cunt. go fuck off with your non-sense. if anything you should be ashamed of your fucking stupidity and hide youe ugly face in a bloody hole. god you smell. |
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Sameer28 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 68 of 257 ) I have been seeing the posts in different channels, I am apalled by the language used!! The lowmann and likes of him save no word to mention their hatred towards muslims, I am sure the same people wouldn't dare to hate the English because of their autocratic rule. The solution would never be possible if the hatred is so much as with that they will never be able to think straight. or do they want the solution!!!They are not moved by anyones death, nor the little ones who have lose their parents. I am sure none of these brave men or anyone from their family are soldiers nor would have fought in any of the freedom movements. the soldiers dont spew hatred! they are trained to kill with reason unlike these lowmen who are trained to just ignite and keep the fire of hatred burning!! |
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galaxy 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 69 of 257 ) What even a thick head like George Bush established when you are fighting external threats (real or imaginary) unite your nation internally. Don't expect people to blindly support you if you attempt to split the polity (least of all based on hatred and prejudice). Compare it with Atom Bomb Vajpayee. The first Prime minister of free India who has claimed he represents one section of the population , even as he amasses troops on the border. Is this unifying leadership ? |
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Admin 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 70 of 257 ) luvvmann 5/27/2002 5:46:55 PM With reference to posts such as 67 above and others of that nature¤ please post your protest and suggestions in the discussion area outlookindia.com¤ How Free Is Free Speech: http://www.outlookindia.com/submain 1.asp?mode=25&refer=4312 |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 71 of 257 ) gandalf, Please do expound on your rather nonintuitive logic, asshole. I am listening as always. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 72 of 257 ) sameer28, So how did you jump to the conclusion that people who hate muslim bigotry are friends of white people? you stupid turd. Besides, if you had the brains to pay any attention, you would realize that "secular" shits like Anita Pratap and Vinod Mehta are the ones displaying outright callousness for the lives lost in India due to islamic terrorism. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 73 of 257 ) galaxy: "Don't expect people to blindly support you if you attempt to split the polity (least of all based on hatred and prejudice)." I am talking about supporting INDIA. Even if you disagree with me, one owuld think you would support policies that are in the interests of Indians, policies that are usually put out by the current ruling party. |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 74 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava ...ah sang-e-mar mar chabaooo, disappointing and dangerous...!!! nah u r all that... he was dignified... gracious... statesmanlike... [unlike indian, who all look chhichoras.... lol...] [enlightened know Gujarat guilty hiding behind patriotism...] transcribed for youz an excerpt beginning from page 13 of George Orwell's book 1984. It describes a hate session orchestrated by Big Brother via the telescreen. The characters in this scene are reacting very much like the media mind-controlled masses of the Global Village are responding today to the message of "rage, revenge, hate, bomb and kill, destroy the enemy" being promulgated by the controlled media. And today. . . just as in the story book, the enemy is a phantom. Osama bin Laden or Emmanuel Goldstein. . . The hate is cleverly induced... ...ka Laddakh Sindhuistaan hu-e ja rahaa hai...?!? ... new strategy2combat terrorism [yerselves...] no thing much 2 do there... JhooTh and makkaari short lived and truth is self evident and lasting... PATRIOTISM, n. 1) The inability to distinguish between the government and one's "country"; 2) A highly praiseworthy virtue characterized by the desire to dominate and kill; 3) A feeling of exultation experienced when contemplating heaps of charred "enemy" corpses; 4) The first, last, and perennial refuge of scoundrels. PATRIOT, n. A dangerous tool of the powers that be. A herd member who compensates for lack of self-respect by indentifying with an abstraction. An enemy of individual freedom. A fancier of the rich, satisfying flavor of boot leather. -- from The American Heretic's Dictionary edited by Chaz Bufe (See Sharp Press) Are you a Planet Patriot? : "My loyalities will not be bound by national borders, or confined in time by one nation's history, or limited in the spirtual dimension by one language or culture. I pledge my allegiance to the damned human race, and my everlasting love to the green hills of Earth, and my intimations of glory to the singing stars, to the very end of space and time." - Edward Abbey Patriotism : "Amnesia is not a requirement for patriotism." "Political Quotes" Archive Emma Goldman asks, "What is Patriotism?", San Francisco, CA, 1908. Real Patriots Disobey |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 75 of 257 ) Tathagat, If you had the brains to analyze all the irrelevant crap you seem to quote in today's context, you would come up with a different set of people who follow the orwellian concepts, i.e., the communist assholes in India. Their only complaint, along with the pseudo-secular crowd is that the hindutvadis are doing a better job of spin/propaganda after having learnt that art from the secularists....that must REALLY hurt, eh? |
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galaxy 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 76 of 257 ) Karapall post 73 "... would support policies that are in the interests of Indians¤ policies that are usually put out by the current ruling party." Are you an imbecile or what? What are the policies ¿ that are in the interests of the Indian people¿ that are being opposed ?? Nuclear war ?????? Asking for building internal Unity and desisiting from hate mongering and divisive politics¤ when we have an external threat¤.... is that asking too much on ¿policy matters¿. If it isn¿t then do you think that this government is doing anything in the ¿interest of (ALL) Indians ¿ ? If it is not¤what are you suggesting we support ????????? |
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vinay_s 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 77 of 257 ) Too many people are concerned about minority(muslim) communalism.True, muslims had been more sepatists than hindus.Hinduism is more tolerant and assimilative.BUT the trends are reversing for the last ten years or so.It has been a long time since i heard any muslim leader giving inflammatory(anti hindu) speeches.The wierdest of all was when imam bukhari called for withdrawl of support to the anti afghanistan campaign after the september 11 attacks.But that didnt contain any anti hindu element in it.Moreover,i am sure,bulk of muslims dont give a damn to what he says.Another one was geelani of kashmir.But he too spoke in terms of kashmir vs india and not muslims vs hindus.On the other hand there are innumerable hindu leaders of the sangh parivar who,whenever open their mouth,as a rule, speak anti muslim.Muslims are treacherous,separatists,intolerant,cruel,barbars etc.etc.The gujarat riots were a direct result of a long drawn hate campaign of the VHP-B.D. combine. Leaflets are distributed for the economic boycott of muslims....to be contd.. |
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vinay_s 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 78 of 257 ) ...contd...There is also great concern about the madarsas funded by middle eastern countries.I dont think that majotrity of muslims admit their children in madarsas.At best the madarsas have their influence in the border regions of rajasthan and kashmir.Most of its students are either from poor or displaced families.The "jehad" mentality of the passouts of such madarsas can be easily crushed by our mighty army.On the other hand a vast majority of middle class hindus are increasingly subscribing to the hindu equivalent of madarsas-RSS funded SARASVATI SHISHU MANDIRS.In this era of globalisation and labour mobility,the SSMs are producing closed,incompetent,reactionary and backward looking people(who as a matter of fact are mostly OBCs) by feeding them doctored history and social science."Greivance hunting" mentality is inculcated in them.Such people who obviously dont get respectable jobs,cuz of their inability to adjust to cosmopolitan enviroment,are then absorbed by RSS itself to preach the ideology of hate and separatism...to be contd... |
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vinay_s 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 79 of 257 ) ...contd...There is also great concern about the madarsas funded by middle eastern countries.I dont think that majotrity of muslims admit their children in madarsas.At best the madarsas have their influence in the border regions of rajasthan and kashmir.Most of its students are either from poor or displaced families.The "jehad" mentality of the passouts of such madarsas can be easily crushed by our mighty army.On the other hand a vast majority of middle class hindus are increasingly subscribing to the hindu equivalent of madarsas-RSS funded SARASVATI SHISHU MANDIRS.In this era of globalisation and labour mobility,the SSMs are producing closed,incompetent,reactionary and backward looking people(who as a matter of fact are mostly OBCs) by feeding them doctored history and social science."Greivance hunting" mentality is inculcated in them.Such people who obviously dont get respectable jobs,cuz of their inability to adjust to cosmopolitan enviroment,are then absorbed by RSS itself to preach the ideology of hate and separatism...to be contd... |
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vinay_s 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 80 of 257 ) ...contd...There is also great concern about the madarsas funded by middle eastern countries.I dont think that majotrity of muslims admit their children in madarsas.At best the madarsas have their influence in the border regions of rajasthan and kashmir.Most of its students are either from poor or displaced families.The "jehad" mentality of the passouts of such madarsas can be easily crushed by our mighty army.On the other hand a vast majority of middle class hindus are increasingly subscribing to the hindu equivalent of madarsas-RSS funded SARASVATI SHISHU MANDIRS.In this era of globalisation and labour mobility,the SSMs are producing closed,incompetent,reactionary and backward looking people(who as a matter of fact are mostly OBCs) by feeding them doctored history and social science."Greivance hunting" mentality is inculcated in them.Such people who obviously dont get respectable jobs,cuz of their inability to adjust to cosmopolitan enviroment,are then absorbed by RSS itself to preach the ideology of hate and separatism...to be contd... |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 81 of 257 ) galaxy, "What are the policies ' that are in the interests of the Indian people' that are being opposed ??" Pay attention. You just oppossed the policies of the current govt. with respect to pakistan, when it is abundantly clear that the Indian govt. is resolved to remove this blight from India's view once and for all. Does this ring a bell, or is your attention-deficit-disorder still running rampant in your brain to remember such trivial details?? |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 82 of 257 ) vinay: "On the other hand a vast majority of middle class hindus are increasingly subscribing to the hindu equivalent of madarsas-RSS funded SARASVATI SHISHU MANDIRS." Madrassas only teach the Quran, and SSMs seem to be regular schools with a hindu shade, just like the catholic private schools which proselytize along with regular schooling activites. Mind explaining why this rather significant difference was ignored in your post?? |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 83 of 257 ) The mentality of this so-called Indian nishi needs to be analyzed for its lack of faith and confidence. nishi seems to be more intent in fulfilling some political/ideological animus with the BJP, and decides that it is time for her to INSULT ALL INDIANS, so that she can screw the ideological foes. Now, the reason I called this woman a whore is because she seems to be willing to sell India by dissing India and Indians, so that she can appear "civilized" and hopefully get to write anti-India articles in foreign magazines just like the prime whore Pankaj Mishra and the various other Indians who indulge in prime whoring spit on India via their articles in foreign magazines. With Indians like this whore nishi we dont need external enemies. |
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galaxy 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 84 of 257 ) Karapall post 81. Do you write comedy, you imbecile? Your humour is obtuse and stilted. What are you trying to suggest in your attention-surfeit-disorder. With your attention for detail you miss the trees for the woods and confused meandering as 'Policy'...... You have an ability to see Policy where there is a complete absence of one. Does our drunken External affairs minister and a drunkard of a Prime Minister who have rather have a holiday when our Jawans are being shelled at the border, have a clue .... forget about elaborate policy ! To quote you 'You just oppossed the policies of the current govt. with respect to pakistan, when it is abundantly clear that the Indian govt. is resolved to remove this blight from India's view once and for all' And what is the 'policy' so far that is abundantly clear to you, you jerk ??? get taken for a ride to Lahore and wind up at Kargil. Beg the US to drill sense into the thick Paki skulls. Get kicked on the teeth by the US and in the Butt by Pakistan. Wait for the green signal from the US after Dec 13 .... for what you shameless jack ass ? Visit spots in Pakistan which symbolise thier 'nation hood' to win a nobel peace prize. Import rice and sugar from them when we have a surfeit at home. You shameless creature, you call this policy ..... the list of this perfidy on the Indian people is long....go get lost rather than rub insult to the injury that this spineless/directionless government has been inflicting. Don't expect me to support such worthless creatures who are hell bent on self aggrandisement and don't give a damn about India. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 85 of 257 ) galaxy: "What are you trying to suggest in your attention-surfeit-disorder. With your attention for detail you miss the trees for the woods and confused meandering as 'Policy'......" Firstly, be more specific. "confused meandering" with respect to what issue?? As far as I can tell, the opposition parties have had a single-point agenda of opposing anything that the ruling party tries to do because they are more interested in winning the next election than solving India's problems. Again, if you want to pretend to have a thorough understanding of the policy holes of the current government, you should start being more specific. Anyone with half a brain can throw out random and deliberately vague assertions like mani shankar iyer and similar assholes. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 86 of 257 ) galaxy" "You have an ability to see Policy where there is a complete absence of one. " that is because I pay attention to the news while you sit around masturbating to nude pictures of mahatma gandhi and jyoti basu. Unless you follow the news, I dont see how you can claim knowledge of the policies (or the lack of them) of the GoI. In any case, your knowledge on these issues will become clear once you get more issue-specific. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 87 of 257 ) galaxy: "Does our drunken External affairs minister and a drunkard of a Prime Minister who have rather have a holiday when our Jawans are being shelled at the border, have a clue .... forget about elaborate policy ! " Did you notice WHERE the PM went on a break?? He deliberately took a vacation in Kulu/manali to negate any rumors that war was imminent. Secondly, every time he takes major decisions, he seems to take a few days by himself to think about, which speaks volumes of his general wisdom in such matters. Secondly, the defence minister and some other cabinet ministers were with him, implying that this "holiday" was more work than pleasure for vajpayee. So, instead of frothing at the mouth at such non issues, pay attention to what has been achieved since december 13th, if you have the brains to do so. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 88 of 257 ) galaxy: "And what is the 'policy' so far that is abundantly clear to you, you jerk ??? " Okay, let me spell it out to you, you brainless commie twit. From 1990-1997, India was incapable of countering pakistan's strategy of engaging India in talks while screwing India by sending terrorists across the border. Even worse, the journalist assholes in the Indian media including motherfuckers like Vinod Mehta and Shekar Gupta were ALWAYS on Pakistan's side and decrying the Indian army. This was the prevailing attitude in the Indian press which clearly undercut India's interests. After the BJP govt took over, it first recognized that unless it went nuclear, the CTBT would permanently tie india's hands on the nuclear front, while allowing china to arm India with nukes. After the tests, India made sure that pakistan also tested (thanks to the brilliant statement by LK Advani "we will get proactive on kashmir" which forced public opinion in Pakistan to support immediate nuclear tests much to their detriment). Pakistan and India were both sanctioned but India is not dependent on foreign aid to any large degree unlike pakistan, so we were able to hurt pakistan economically. EVEN NOW, the Indian press was pissing on the Indian government for doing the nuke tests (they were just following the script laid out in the western press, which was clearly pissed off that India had screwed the NPT and other racist treaties in one shot). Before ABV could handle pakistan, he first had to change the minds of the turds in the Indian media. This was the reason was the bus journey, which was repaid by mushy via kargil. EVEN AFTER KARGIL, the rat bastards in the Indian media like Vinod mehta and Shekar Gupta were kissing Mushy's ass and selling the paki point-of-view to Indians. So ABV called him to Agra with the intent of exposing Musharraf to the Indian people, along with the assholes in the Indian media who are on pakistan's side. The breakfast with Musharraf where Shekar Gupta and Vinod Mehta indulged in completely inappropriate behavior by kissing mushy's ass on television taught the Indian public about the true nature of the assholes in the Indian media who give free PR to the enemy. Then came sep 11, 2001, when India saw an oppurtunity to counter pakistan's strategy by pointing the spotlight on pakistani behavior. The pakis have ALWAYS been duplicious vicious bastards who have not honored a single treaty they have signed with India, but somehow these facts seem to slip past turds like you and the assholes in the Indian media. In any case, Dec 13. saw the GoI escalating the situation and forcing pakistan to fight a war on two fronts. When western countries were refusing to consider India's terrorist problems and instead gave material support to the pakis, the Indian govt. further upped the ante this month, FORCING western governments to squeeze musharraf until he relents. All of this is perfectly sensible policy by the GoI and must be applauded. Of course, brainless turds like you might have problems actually getting the attention span and the brains to follow news over a long period of time and analyze the ACTIONS of our enemies. Hope this clears things up a bit for you, dear commie shit. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 89 of 257 ) galaxy: "Wait for the green signal from the US after Dec 13 .... for what you shameless jack ass ? " That is called exploiting an oppurtunity, you stupid turd. The people who were pissing on the GoI before December 13th for not taking action were the same set of bastards who wrote articles in the Indian media decrying India's mobilization of troops after Dec 13th. In short, the western educated, prissy, pseudo-secular motherfuckers in the Indian press have consistenly undercut the policies of the GoI by selling the paki point of view to Indians. For this, they receive ample "praise" and goodies from the western countries. In return, people like shekar gupta, Pankaj Mishra, vinod mehta, and anita pratap try very hard to be bengali babus who think that THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES who can legitimately speak on behalf of the Indian public. "You shameless creature, you call this policy ....." What you mentioned is not "policy" but just some incoherent rant on various unrelated issues, you stupid turd. Go and retrieve the one neuron you share with the rest of your family and you might make some progress understanding the meaning of "policy" and "strategy". Jeez, you are one hell of a stupid motherfucker in the vein of jbindra. "the list of this perfidy on the Indian people is long....go get lost rather than rub insult to the injury that this spineless/directionless government has been inflicting." Wah re wah, what rhetoric. Are you sure that you dont want to enter Indian politics; you seem to have the ability to speak for hours with absolutely no brains or facts, and resort to lying and pointless ranting at the drop of a hat. You clearly are MLA material, pal. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 90 of 257 ) Vinay: Thanks for trying to bring us back to very relevant serious issues. We on this MB have been distracted by a couple of mongrels like Korpal and lowman.. digressing into idiotic arguments and nit picking. I do hope other come on and are not discouraged by Karapall and Lowman and his ilk.. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 91 of 257 ) gandalf, Nobody is stopping you from taking up serious issues, least of all me, asshole. I refuse to stand by an let ignorant assholes misrepresent reality and facts about India and Indians, and if that gets your goat, it is your problem. |
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fayaz 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 92 of 257 ) nishi -- As the famous song goes - 'You gotta have faith' Dont let these people scare and shame you and deprive you of your Indian-ness. That is what they want so that they can propagate their own version of Indian citizenship and exclude you because you make expressions of grief over your nationality. They would dub you as a traitor. Dont let that happen. Say it loudly and proudly; I am Indian. You aren't ! |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 93 of 257 ) It is not enough to go around chanting "I am proud to be Indian" like some of the traitorous nether orifices in this forum seem to do. You ACTUALLY HAVE TO BEHAVE IN A WAY THAT SAYS THAT YOU ARE PROUD TO BE AN INDIAN; a point that seems to have completely bypassed these part-time patriots. Here is a hint for the likes of nishi: You dont proclaim your patriotism by claiming that ALL Indians must be ashamed for some reason or another. It firstly shows that you stereotype Indians like most foreigners do, when WE ALL KNOW the kind of diversity of thought and action we have among people in India. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 94 of 257 ) now fayaz is this same Indian patriot who thinks that the following verses from the Quran that explicitly preach violence on non muslims as "perfectly understandable". He can tell exactly why muslims have the god given right to kill the kafirs. Here are the sura and verses he defended, any translation of the quran on the web will give you the complete verses. 5:51 -- ....not to make friendship with jews and christians... 2:19 -- "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" 9:5 -- "fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleaguer them and wait for them in every stratagem" 9:123 -- "fight them on until there is no more persecution, and religion becomes allah's in its entirety" |
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fayaz 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 95 of 257 ) Karapall -- Please do not twist my words. Those excerpts that you quote warrant a fuller study from you. Please read the preceeding and following paragraphs and it will be clear to you that until there is a certain context to it, the words that you quote hold no meaning or sanctity. It would be like saying that Lord Krishna's persuasion to encourage Arjun for war, is representative of war mongering being incumbent on all Hindus. Everyone knows that the stakes there were good Vs. evil and that this would be a wrong statement. Unfortunately, since Islam is so complex, it is very difficult to understand everything fully, even for a muslim, leave alone a scholar such as your self. Finally, I do not need verification from you if I am a patriot or not. It is within my very blood and sweat and in a democracy you have your standards of being nationalist and I have mine, and both of us are in the right as long as we are not harming any one bodily or fomenting trouble. Do not ever try again to doubt my allegiance to my country. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 96 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Fayaz : Well said. We must have faith and the resolve to combat these vicious goons who wish to establish a neo-nazi saffron state in India. Karapall : You putrified sack of dog excrement. Let's see what you have to indulge our laughter with : You ACTUALLY HAVE TO BEHAVE IN A WAY THAT SAYS THAT YOU ARE PROUD TO BE AN INDIAN; a point that seems to have completely bypassed these part-time patriots. Oooooh !! Such big words. Not your own for sure. So I have to behave in a way that says I am proud to be Indian. Hmmm... ! Does that mean that I am supposed to join you on one of your rape/murder/burn/pillage raids. Well, if that is what being Indian mean by your interpretation, please spare us the sanctimonious crowing about what constitutes patriotism. We dont need such an idiot to vivisect our patriotism and ascertain if we are indeed worthy of the calling of an Indian. I miss Luvvman, where is that idiotic "fundi". I really miss him. :'( |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 97 of 257 ) jbindra: "Oooooh !! Such big words. Not your own for sure. So I have to behave in a way that says I am proud to be Indian. " For starters, you can stop insisting that Indians must roll back and die in the face of paki nukes and "demonstrate restraint" in order to please all the white people in the so-called "international community". Did that get through your thick skull this time around?? you pathetic piece of punjabi parrot puke. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 98 of 257 ) fayaz: "Please do not twist my words. Those excerpts that you quote warrant a fuller study from you. Please read the preceeding and following paragraphs and it will be clear to you that until there is a certain context to it, the words that you quote hold no meaning or sanctity." Okay, lets look through each of these details in painful excruciating detail later on today, shall we?? I would be interested in your arguments supporting the brutal slaughter of non muslims advocated in the Quran. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 99 of 257 ) fayaz: "Unfortunately, since Islam is so complex, it is very difficult to understand everything fully, even for a muslim, leave alone a scholar such as your self." I am NOT interested in all the theological horse manure in the Quran. What interests me is the logic and rationale the Quran induces in muslims that makes the muslims believe that slaughter of non muslims is ALRIGHT as long as the local muslim mullah agrees with it (apparently this mullah is the final arbitrator for defining the term "injustice against muslims" depending on the place, time and political compulsions, as Syed Imam Bukhari and the other bigoted, jihadi-loving Indian mullahs will tell you. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 100 of 257 ) fayaz, no one is twisting your words, as you very well know. YOU DEFENDED the verses calling for the slaughter of non muslims by saying that "when interpreted correctly innocents wont be slaughtered". The question people like you seem to carefull avoid is "what about when they are wrongly interpreted, and when they kill civilians as in israel??" You muslims seem to have no problem killing women and children in the name of islam when the fancy strikes you, but when some muslims commit some atrocity that even jokers like you cannot defend, SUDDENLY these muslims become "bad muslims" who did not follow islam. HOW CONVENIENT!!!, pal. If muslims commit murder based on the preaching of the Quran (no matter who interpreted it for them) then it is a cause for concern. Christianity, buddhism, and hinduism DO NOT advocate the killing of innocent people; in fact, they emphasize forgiveness over killing and murder and revenge. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 101 of 257 ) fayaz: "I hope I have made the point clear. " I can only smell a lot of horseshit in your posts. You just played down the viciousness of the Al Qaeda terrorists by comparing them to the VHP, and you expect me to swallow the rest of your bilge about how you hold hands with your hindu friends and sing "kumbaya" around a campfire every night?? You are a tacit supporter of jihadi terrorism in India and you seem to have myriad layers of logic to justify the kind of terrorism muslims seem to indulge in. Apparently, when hindus defend themselves against muslim communalism, the hindus are being more communal than the muslims...not only that, hindu groups that want to rebuild Rama's temple are now equivalent to the Al Qaeda. If this is supposed to be a joke, it is far from funny. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 102 of 257 ) http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020603-1336256.ht m Hey Fayaz, Apparently, the imam of Mecca has decided that it is time for you to wage jihad. High time you demonstrated your allegiance to the Quran, yes?? After all, no less a scholar of the Quran than the imam of the mosque of mecca has given this call for islamic jihadi terrorism against hindus, christians, and jews, and secularists too... |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 103 of 257 ) karapall's warning is correct. the imam in mecca the fucking asshole has once again shown islam's true colors. this abominable rapist "philosophy" goes by the subterfuge of religion. islam is a dangerous hate mongering barbaric religion hell bent on wrecking havoc on others. it is high time the hindus stand up as men and fight this monstrosity. the world will be with them. and even if they are not, hindus should fight islam everywhere. fight fire with fire. confront islamic rapine everywhere with a iron hand. slay jehadis wherever you find them. no mercy should be shown to the soldiers of islam. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 104 of 257 ) as hindus confront the islamic barbarians i want to warn them it will be a long battle. the islamic assholes are murderous and devious. when they are weak they will feign friendship, when they are strong they will fall on their neighbors like animals, with quranic sanction. no mercy should be shown to these assholes. hindus, rise up and fight this menace once and for all. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 105 of 257 ) i am asking the hindus to fight a war of justice against islam. i am seriously concerned with the current situation and have a deep distrust of vajpayee, not the man, but the politician and philosopher. his views are suspect and even dangerous from what i have seen. his poems about "ab jung nahin hoga", lahore mishap, kargil debacle (i will not explain), and agra disaster tell me that vajpayee is extremely weak minded. he thinks talks and sensible co-existance with pakistan is possible. nothing is farther from the truth. if this is vajpayee's basic philosophy, we are in deep trouble. the wonderful gandhi made the same mistake. even a man of gandhi's stature could make a terrible mistake about islam. i believe, vajpayee is doing the same. is it stupidity, i do not know. is it cowardice, i do not know. is it good nature, i do not know. but, if vajpayee does not attack pakistan and dismember it at this juncture, india as a country has a bleak future. "there is a tide in the affairs of men which when taken at the flood leads to fortune" and so with the affairs of countries. i hope he does not falter. the country is behind him (not the sister fucking marxists from calcutta and secular traitors like gujral. these traitors will be wiped out prety soon, i am sure.) this is an appeal to vajpayee from this forum to attack pakistan forthwith with all the might at his command to burn and vaporize the cocksucking bastards in islamabad. allah is mighty and great. allah is merciful too. end the bastards agony in islamabad and go to heaven. |
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fayaz 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 106 of 257 ) Karapall -- I think you overlooked the what I had mentioned previously -- that if the call for any extreme measures by any cleric is made and an individual is in opposition to it, he should not heed the call and instead oppose it aggressively. You should not worry, as you yourself mentioned, I will continue to sing Kumbaya with my friends and not wage jehad. If it pleases you by me accepting that I am a fundamentalist hardline fanatic jehadi. Then let it so be. For you will never see the truth unless you lift the veil that covers your eyes. |
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fayaz 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 107 of 257 ) Karapall -- Finally, The Imam of Mecca is a religious cleric. He has no right to suggest what Muslims should do or not do. It is for the scholars of Muslim jurisprudence and people who study the region who are to suggest a course of action, which btw : isnt to go about killing any one who isnt a Muslim. I would have taken pains to explain the whole system to you, but I beg your pardon -- I have realised that those terrorists who use "jehad" as their pep word are as ignorant as you who is simply looking for a reason to villify others. I know it will make no difference and because it is so, it isn't worth the effort. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 108 of 257 ) Luman can be Ignored if you are not a Muslim, but tomorrow it will be the Christians, the Tamils, The Buddist etc. Then who is going to stand up? |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 109 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava not just Indian domestic audience conned in the name of patriotism... but also the world community... fooled and tricked into coercive diplomacy... 4 epic centre of lies and deception... shamelessness... idiocy... india turning down its closest time tested friend Russia... Jean Drez was good in the Hindu... so many good LTTEs [letter2the editor]... or is it that US playing a game with its frontline partner?!? India should be rebuked 4 its war mongering... posing such a grave threat... Saturday, June 01, 2002. 2:33:13 AM...ah maaiibaaps asking their chickenary outta mess... namely India... Beeb just reporting it so... so india rebuked it seems... 60- 70 k people.... bad 4 economy... Sunday June 02, 2002. 11:03:18 PM... seem India is rebuked by sooo many western nation asking their citizen 2 leave the baboonland... misplaced jingoism ruining hospitality indoostry and economy in general... India 2 stand isolated??!!?? 02:34 AM... geoge the paggal... admitting Paak recieving aid in loadz mainly from the US, EU and Japan... which noo Indian media reports... instead they highlight the pressures being applied 2 paakisstaan... dalla/state controlled media hence mislead people by not giving an accurate picture... ... gaaghvaanii ask the world community today... not2 support paak financially... rather put sanctions... till they stop cross border terrorism... [they resort to terrorism b'coz states won't pay attention... and no talks with no one on Kashmir till... blah blah... the world community and its people are not fools... they know na no'a man tail hogga na raadha naache Gee excuse... they know who is on the wrong here... India just wants 2 do time... coz resolving it would be a political suicide... no leader no tall, no honest and no bold enuff 2 take such risk... and do the needful... Maharaashtra developments... looks like PC Elexander returning the favour... by crowning the Mahajan Jiija... mahajan kept saying in that outburst against Tata plc... my this and my that... as if it is his abba's maal... lol... lampaT loanDa... kam zarf chhichhora... hiNMsawaadii... looting and messing up the mess... |
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galaxy 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 110 of 257 ) Karapall, in the normal course I would avoid joining issue posts 85 to 89, on what you are attempting to Pass off as ‘Policy on Pakistan and terrorism’. It is very clear to me that your seriousness about the future of the country is secondary to your support for a political party. I evaluate each decision and Policy framework (if there is one) by what is good for the country, its people and the Constitution. The NPT is a meaningless piece of Paper, as the Indian implosion in the seventies negated the pre 1969 nuclear order! The CTBT is still not ratified by the US and hence cannot come into force, what was the hurry for India? Your suggestion that India went for the tests, in the final analysis as part of its Pakistan ‘policy’, to get Pakistan into an economic bind and destroy it, is more by hindsight though untrue! Even today, as you in fact pointed out Pakistan is receiving huge aid from the US, EU and Japan, much more than any sanctions have damaged them in the recent past. Off course, true to form, Pakistan is getting the aid by cheating and duplicity (their stock in trade). Feign to fight terror in Afghanistan and sire it in Kashmir. The nuclear tests were a political gambit, for a domestic audience, make no mistake of it. The reality is that with or without Chinese support India was and remains way ahead of Pakistan, with nuclear tipped missile capabilities, that can reach any corner of Pakistan and deep into China. One cannot ignore the power of jingoism in politics (and am not taking a stance here). The Vajpayee tragedy is he is looking at playing to the local minority lobby by trying to make peace overtures with the untrustworthy Pakistan. He is looking for the Nobel peace prize when the most assuring peace can come by carrying out on a massive scale covert operations (avoiding civilians) deep into Pakistan, unifying the Indian polity rather than dividing it along sectarian lines and pushing through Political initiatives in Kashmir. From now on you are filtered out pal, rather than argue with you over your fabrications and lies, patently untrue and hence contradictory on the face of it (needing no rejoinder). Good bye ! |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 111 of 257 ) galaxy, sisterfucking moron. how can weapons be developed without testing them. the US , Russia, and china have conducted hundreds and thousands of tests (above and below ground). that is how weapons are tested and perfected. after they perfected their weapns they stopped testing. even today weapons are tested secretly subcritical and Lab. fucking asshole, india tested only twice under ground. that is way below what is required. you find fault with that too. do you have a prostitutes blood in your veins you matherchot. don't be insane. are you suffering from syphillis and mental demention gandhian asshole. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 112 of 257 ) gandalf: "Luman can be Ignored if you are not a Muslim, but tomorrow it will be the Christians, the Tamils, The Buddist etc. Then who is going to stand up?" Cut the crap. Muslims are harming and killing hindus in India unlike the other religions, whose followers are largely peaceful and tolerant. Randomly crying "hindu fascism" reeks of the same rhetoric the pseudo-secular, pseudo-intellectual scumbags in the Indian english media use on a regular basis. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 113 of 257 ) galaxy: "The NPT is a meaningless piece of Paper, as the Indian implosion in the seventies negated the pre 1969 nuclear order! The CTBT is still not ratified by the US and hence cannot come into force, what was the hurry for India? " Because of the "entry by force" clause in the CTBT which was to come to effect in 1999. This entry by force clause would prohibit India from EVER developing or testing nukes; this would have made India subservient to chinese power in the region for the next few centuries. Go read the CTBT in its entirety and understand before you expose your ignorance. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 114 of 257 ) The "entry by force" clause in the CTBT would be applicable to all "non-nuclear powers" (defined as those countries which developed nukes after 1962, or dont possess nukes) EVEN IF India did not sign or ratify the CTBT. At that point India was defined as a "non nuclear" state even though it had nuclear weapons. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 115 of 257 ) galaxy, Global treaties are only as good as they can be enforced, and countries have increasingly figured out that by touting "global trade" the western countries can get hold countries like India hostage by their economic balls...they tried to do this in 1998 but luckily India has a self-sustaining economy to a large extent and it did not hurt us. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 116 of 257 ) tathagat: "india turning down its closest time tested friend Russia" This single statement demonstrates that you are an imbecile and a gasbag cretin who does not understand the basics of international relations. There is a famous quote: There are no friend or enemies, only interests. Russia is as much of friend or enemy to India as the US is; of course, the russians are more reliable defense suppliers as far as India is concerned, so we should prefer russian weapons to american ones. But other than practical considerations that arise on a case-by-case basis, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "FRIEND OF INDIA". Get that fact into your thick skull if you can. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 117 of 257 ) galaxy: "Your suggestion that India went for the tests, in the final analysis as part of its Pakistan ‘policy’, to get Pakistan into an economic bind and destroy it, is more by hindsight though untrue! " No, you cretin. India has always known that pakistan's weakness is its excessive dependence on external aid for day-to-day running of Pakistan. The Indian leaders, especially the ones in New Delhi now, have demonstrated time and again that they completely understand the compulsions and weaknesses of the pakistani establishment. If you go back and read the reports from South Asia Analysis Group or other INDIAN experts, right after the sanctions were imposed, they uniformly predicted that India would breeze through the sanctions. It was only the communist cretins in the media like yourself who were whining about India having made a "grave mistake" by defying the "international community". The BJP leadership has demonstrated that the pseudo-intellectual pieces of shit in the communist party are completely clueless about international politics. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 118 of 257 ) galaxy: "Even today, as you in fact pointed out Pakistan is receiving huge aid from the US, EU and Japan, much more than any sanctions have damaged them in the recent past. " You need to look beneath the covers to understand that all of this "aid" was essentially back-payments of interests for the 40 billion dollars pakistan owes the world bank and IMF. So, essentially US gave all this aid with the left hand and took it back with its right hand. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 119 of 257 ) galaxy: "The nuclear tests were a political gambit, for a domestic audience, make no mistake of it." And you are a veritable horse's ass with a cauliflower in place of your brains, make no mistake about it. If you had the brains to follow how western powers screw countries like us, you would understand the danger of India letting the CTBT come into force. Again, with your pathetic grasp of elementary facts about the nuclear aparthied and their compulsions before 1998, it is unlikely that I can convince you otherwise. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 120 of 257 ) galaxy: "The reality is that with or without Chinese support India was and remains way ahead of Pakistan, with nuclear tipped missile capabilities, that can reach any corner of Pakistan and deep into China." China has a very advanced missile program and it has given away its secrets to North Korea which inturn tranferred these secrets to Pakistan. While pakistani science establishment has been steadily weakened with their jihadi policies, they still have enough sophistication to read the chinese manuals and fire a nuclear-tipped missile at India. If India was forced to adhere to the CTBT, then china would slowly keep upgrading pakistan's capabilities to the point where India spends all its energy and time fighting pakistan (which is the end-goal of chinese strategy towards India anyway). |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 121 of 257 ) galaxy: "The Vajpayee tragedy is he is looking at playing to the local minority lobby by trying to make peace overtures with the untrustworthy Pakistan. " No, Vajpayee first wanted to start peace overtures from ground zero in order to knock some understanding of reality into the thick skulls of the likes of you and the pseudo-secular pieces of shit that pretend to be intellectuals in the Indian English Media. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 122 of 257 ) Now, even the braindead cretins like Vinod Mehta and the traitorous motherfuckers like Shekar Gupta (you should have seen him support pakistan over India on US news) are forced to admit that the current government's policy towards pakistan has a lot of merit. These journalist scumbags used to consistently talk about India being the bad guy in this spat with pakistan until Sep 11, 2001. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 123 of 257 ) galaxy: "From now on you are filtered out pal, rather than argue with you over your fabrications and lies, patently untrue and hence contradictory on the face of it (needing no rejoinder)." That's right. When all else fails, a pigheaded unwillingness to stare at facts in their face should pull you through. You clearly have learnt a lot of important lessons from the communists and the ostrich. >Good bye ! and good riddance. |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 124 of 257 ) I am shocked how Musharraf wins the media war most of the times when our PM is supposed to be one of the best orator!! While Musharraf was openly stating at Almaty that India is responsible for South Asia's mess, Vajpayee Baba is happy to rant about terrorism across the border!!! To quote my Bombay friend' Udhar hi maa bahan karna mangta tha na!!' How can a dictator ever talk about democracy? Vajpayee has to go period! I am sick of this old and weak man! Saurabh |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 125 of 257 ) karapall, where did 'hindu facism' come in. Is lowman the new representative of Hndhus?. I agree to you points on NPT and CTBT though |
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galaxy 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 126 of 257 ) Gandalf, I have filtered out the lies of Karapall and am unsure what you are referring to in the context of NPT and CTBT. The CTBT was a fraud on the developing world. The NPT was irrelvant de facto post Pokhran 1.There was no scope for negotiations on the CTBT and the arbitrary basis on which nuclear powers were defined. It was in a take it or leave it condition. India as a sovereign state , could well refuse to sign it by taking the moral high ground, that with the Proliferation of nuclear weapons and the hypocricy of the other nuclear powers (including sub critical testing continuing) it was not prepared to ratify it. With a nuclear arsenal to blow the world into specks already stockpiled, the only effort of the so called 'developed world' was to keep nuclear weapons out of the reach of the states that 'did not have the maturity to know how to use the weapons'. The CTBT and the NPT were therefore based on a travesty of the truth. After all who decided 'maturity'?.... The only use of nuclear weapons in the history of mankind coming from the rainmaker for the CTBT .. the US, which was attempting to steam roll India and Pakistan into signing. The CTBT, had to be ratified to be effective, the US had not ratified the CTBT, with the GOP actively opposing it. With the lack of requisite support the Clinton adminstration was unable to sign off.The fact remains that the CTBT and NPT are meaningless in the face of the huge arsenal already built up and the NMD plans of the GOP. The pressure was mounting on India from the Clinton administration which was late into its second term without the requisite support in its own country (with Pakistan offering to sign the CTBT unilaterally). If we say that we had to rush the testing , we acknowledge that we were succumbing to US pressure....as The CTBT is not effective as of date...and we could well wait for the US to sort out its internal battles. Which to my mind would have been the correct position. The fact is that the BJP pushed the testing for the domestic lobby, with the VHP taking out radioactive materials to whip up a Jingoism that they hoped would give them political legitimacy. Indira Gandhi had to resort to an emergency after the first implosion, the BJP the crucible of Gujarat... THE Bunkum of CTBT is an afterthought.More of political expediency. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 127 of 257 ) galaxy: "India as a sovereign state , could well refuse to sign it by taking the moral high ground, " Just like we solved the kashmir problem in 1971 with our "moral high ground" from which we released 90000 Paki POWs?? Get this into your think skull, old man, MORALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FOREIGN POLITICS; SELF_INTEREST REIGNS SUPREME. Do you have the brains to note that the coutries that preach morality, ie., UK, USA, and the EU have committed some of the worst crimes against humanity in the quest for protecting their self-interests?? India lost heavily because of such "moral" postures of intellectually decrepit and braindead men like you. "that with the Proliferation of nuclear weapons and the hypocricy of the other nuclear powers (including sub critical testing continuing) it was not prepared to ratify it. " So what?? How does a "moral posture" serve india's interests of gaining power and influence in Asia?? Or are you content that India maintain the image of a country in loin cloth that preaches morality to the world while it cannot defend itself from a failing terrorist state??? And you think this would help India become a world power?? |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 128 of 257 ) galaxy: "If we say that we had to rush the testing , we acknowledge that we were succumbing to US pressure....as The CTBT is not effective as of date...and we could well wait for the US to sort out its internal battles. " You STILL dont get it, do you?? India has to make its own decision based on its interests and its reality on the ground, and NOT BECAUSE it wants to preach morality to the US (we have been doing that until 1995, which proves to the west that the Indians are a bunch of novices when it comes to being a player in the international arena) Are you such a dumb shit that you believe that Indians need to wait for validation from white people before we start to work in our own interests?? Being a powerful country means you have to behave like a powerful country and tell EVERYONE to go stuff themselves if they try to curtail your interests. The day Indians realize this, we will be unstoppable in the world arena; till then we will sand-niggers with a slave mentality as galaxy has demonstrated so able with his past post. So-called "international treaties" are meaningless; they CANNOT be implemented against powerful countries BECAUSE the fundamental question is who is going to implement policiing of a powerful country. The international treaties are meant for stupid moronic countries which actually believe that these treaties are worth the paper they are written on (which they are not). |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 129 of 257 ) galaxy: "I have filtered out the lies of Karapall " If you want references for any of my "lies", all you have to do is ask!! I will provide links to sources for your verification. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 130 of 257 ) galaxy: "The fact is that the BJP pushed the testing for the domestic lobby, with the VHP taking out radioactive materials to whip up a Jingoism that they hoped would give them political legitimacy." How is this a "fact"?? This is clearly an opinion of yours which has no basis in reality. Just because you are a stupid piece of shit who cannot separate various unrelated issues and understand the nuances in each issue, it does not mean that the whole world operates in the braindead and simpleminded manner as you have outlined. Indian local politics has its own compulsions, but India also exists in a rough neighbourhood surrounded by countries which are barely working and/or dictatorial/military regimes. Thus, any administration worth its salt will take the dangers from these neighbours very seriously as our current govt. is doing. Braindead sacks of parrot droppings like yourself should learn to be a little more objective and move away from your commie propaganda, even if you do so temporarily... |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 131 of 257 ) saurabhs, i second you on the frustrations regarding vajpayee. he needs to shed this "nehru" mantle that he has put on. he has nearly lost his ability as an orator, in hindi. he has parkinsons. his english is not very good and he admits it. but all of that is beside the point. the real problem is policy projection. he is on his last stretch. he makes or breaks the BJP. i am not concerned about that, but, his approach to pakistan's threat is mind boggling. at first, he acts like pakistanis are our long lost brothers. nothing is farther from the truth. second his retort to pakistan is always soft. it will just not do. infact, musharraf's aggressive posture is a direct result of his reading or mis-reading of vajpayee (in lahore). he thinks vajpayee is weak or atleast up until now. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 132 of 257 ) saurabhs, vajpayee's hot and cold statements are not consistent. the recent episode on joint patrolling is a good example. this policy may earn some browny points with the americans, but it is fraught with danger. let us say pakistan accepts it (just hypothetical). i am sure violence will still go on as it has both an internal and external dimension. pakistan will say heck all the violence is internal. no patrolling is going to stop anything. jehadis will still sneak in. violence can be stopped when the jehadis and their pakistani supporters are eliminated or reduced to insignificant levels. pakistan wants war covert especially. it wants kashmir. it hates india and hindus and will never let india live in peace. the only answer is total war to dismember pakistan. the nuclear blackmail has to be called now. small stupid fucked up islamic countries like bangla have to be established in it's place. these can then be watched over more easily. will we suffer, yes thru the war. but, after that progress will be fast for all in the subcontinent. peace will prevail. |
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Sameer 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 133 of 257 ) Hi guys, Appreciate your views, but dont you guys think it is time to shun your ignorance and move ahead!! Killing each other will not end the blood shed and talking dirty here on the MB won't do you any good either, I have a suggestion free for all the desis, go and join the army if you have guts, dont talk rubbish here and do war mongering!! Wars are never won..never!! you might lose all your family and your enemy might lose his family so who won..you or him...none.. so better my desi pals, leave war make love...pray and glorify god and love thy neighbour thats the only way you will be happy.. I assure you!! |
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Sameer 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 134 of 257 ) Hi guys, Appreciate your views, but dont you guys think it is time to shun your ignorance and move ahead!! Killing each other will not end the blood shed and talking dirty here on the MB won't do you any good either, I have a suggestion free for all the desis, go and join the army if you have guts, dont talk rubbish here and do war mongering!! Wars are never won..never!! you might lose all your family and your enemy might lose his family so who won..you or him...none.. so better my desi pals, leave war make love...pray and glorify god and love thy neighbour thats the only way you will be happy.. I assure you!! |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 135 of 257 ) sameer, What a load of laughable horse manure!! "pray and glorify god and love thy neighbours thats the only way you will be happy". This bit of braindead religious crap is a recipe for more violence. god is irrelevant to living happily. What is relevant is to follow the rule "do unto others and you will have them do unto you" correctly and to keep a clean conscience by behaving within ethical boundaries. As for war mongering, there is a time and a place for everything, including war mongering. So please shove your peacenik rhetoric up your nether end, where the sun dont shine. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 136 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : It would do you good not to talk about sunshine and the other good things in this universe that you and your impotent Sanghi compatriots have not been able to ruin. Specially so because you live in a world of abject darkness and ignorance. But then again, as you mentioned in the last message, who would know better about your "nether end" where the "sun dont shine". I wonder what kind of olefinic material, in addition to some help from your Sanghi mates, you use to get some shine there. |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 137 of 257 ) Sameer, Chill out! Why in the world should I join Army?? If army needs me I will but why should I leave my job and join army?? Are you nuts?? Whatever have happened to the tax money I have been paying as an honest Indian citizen?? In a country everybody should so the job they are paid to do! Army is supposed to defend our borders and they are responsible for it! I am not! If I am called for I will go but why should I stop debating and turn blind eyes to wrongdoing to politicians and our evil neighbour?? If you want me to join army let me suggest you to duly love the neighbour and go and settle in Pakistan!! You may get a Peace Prize for it!! Saurabh |
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Sameer 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 138 of 257 ) Saurabh!! I dont need to go anywhere pal, I do love peace and I may as well get the peace prize living in my country. Save your ass and run for the shelter when you guys nuke each other!! paying taxes.. huh!!everyone does but does it mean your opinion should be taken for war when the majority might be against that..offcourse they are all paying their taxes as well. and dear buddy, did you vote these politicians to power? I am sure you did, now dance to their tunes and accept the pogroms and cowardice of these great politicians and be queit untill you get another chance to vote and undo the bad!! I hope you do, that is if you accept in first place you have done wrong by voting these barbarians to power!! GOD SAVE INDIA!!! |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 139 of 257 ) Sameer, Your post has now confused me! Are you an INDIAN?? Cos if you are not I am not wasting my time over somebody who is not aware of ground realities! Your statement on Post 138 like 'Save your ass and run for the shelter when you guys nuke each other!!'or ''did you vote these politicians to power'??. I am somehow getting the message that you are neither and INDIAN or a Pakistani! What do you mean by 'you guys'? If you dont have the temerity to be counted as an Indian(if you are one!), call yourself 'we' just why in the world are you wasting anybody's time here??? 'everyone does but does it mean your opinion should be taken for war when the majority might be against that.' Well well smarty pants if I read newspapers correctly majority of people in INDIA are fed up with Pakistan and will go to war to settle scores? Are you quoting any figures to support your statement or just is it plain baloney?? Why dont you throw any data here rather than abstract ideas like 'majority might be against that'! 'did you vote these politicians to power'. Certainly I did! How about you? If you are an Indian did you exercise your rights? No! because you are above all it I guess? Or if you are not an Indian why worry about it pal?? Why dont you stick to your own politicians! Saurabh Saurabh |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 140 of 257 ) sameer: "I dont need to go anywhere pal, I do love peace and I may as well get the peace prize living in my country. Save your ass and run for the shelter when you guys nuke each other!!" Sameer, so you are not a resident of India clearly, as is evident from your reference to Indians and pakis as "you guys". Now, the real question is, why does a non Indian asshole like you insist that Indians who believe that pakistan must be attacked for it to modify its behavior, must go and join the army. " I am sure you did, now dance to their tunes and accept the pogroms and cowardice of these great politicians and be queit untill you get another chance to vote and undo the bad!!" Huh?? What kind of a retard are you, pal?? Does it really matter who voted which way?? Congresswallahs caused more communal trouble when they were in power. Retards like you should try to know the history of communal violence in India before you go around exposing your idiocy. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 141 of 257 ) Sameer, if that is his real name, comes from a country that does not have democracy, which would explain his stupid misconceptions about how democracy in India works. |
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Sameer 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 142 of 257 ) Dempcracy!!! Killing each other and trying to justify it is democracy?? then I better stay in undemocratic country, even though I don't, I am very much a desi Born in Canada, my grand father migrated here. Pak/Ind problem is not just Indian or pakis it is universal..for the matter of fact any problem which gives rise to destablising of the region is regional or in wider terms global..so I have every right to comment on this issue as much as Indians and Pakis have the right to comment on the international issues!! Well guys, another thing is using filthy language is not going to help you being understood any better than what you are!! so please stick on to the decency or better if you cant..do not comment, Mr.Karapall, as I have noticed, for more than once on this wonderful board has been a shame and I dont expect the decency from him, but atleast Mr.Saurabh who has the right skill to post the decent chat should not lose his way! |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 143 of 257 ) Sameer, I have only posted a couple of post to you(post 137 & 139).Seems to me either you didnt read them properly or you have a problem understanding English language! How in the world did you find any of these post filthy is beyond my imagination pal! Some strong words maybe but I dare you to point out any filth on my post!!!I dont commend using filthy language on MB and I dont support people talking nonsense about me either! Anyway I will wait for your post to see where I used filthy language!!! Lets see some of your points now! Indeed democracy doesnt mean killing people. But democracy doesnt mean having your own peole killed by crazy zealots either!! Just how do you advocate bringing peace in a region where one country is more than obsessed in throwing the other country in turmoil!It takes two hands to clap, I am not going to be a great neighbour to somebody who is not a good neighbour to me! Thank you very much!We are not talking about Canada and US here we are talking about India & Pakistan. While it would be awesome if we could have a great relationship, please keep the ground realities in mind before you make any idealistic statements. Destablishing the region or globe? Are you for real?? India & Pakistan have shown more restraint than most other countries!! The two countries have come close to Nuclear war 3 times in 3 years but each time we have backed off! Rather than thinking this as a countries which have become Nuclear aware you and lots of Western pundits think other way round!!! How long did it take the USA to blast a N bomb on civilization once they had it within their control?? Has US ever publicly asked sorry for it? Atleast I havent heard it yet!!! US and Russia developed Nuclear command control in almost 30 years! India & Pakistan have done it in 10 years! Still we are street hoodlums!! India and Pakistan have about 200 Nuclear bombs still it makes for a global insecurity!!! How about 20000 odd stockpiles US and Russia have?? How about China, France, England?? Even Canada has some excellent expertise in this area! Who started this arms race eh?? Why should we Indians look at Western world as saviours?? When they use a country like Afganistan, dump all their arms and cache, train Mujahideen and leave the reagion in chaos!! Who is more responsible for chaos in global order? US or India? Western countries or South Asian countries?? Are you also suffering from the white skin syndrome that you cant see all these? And you talk about chaos in global order and region instability! Pathetic!!! Dont talk about democracy my friend! India has had a long and great run of democracy! yes we have our own shortfalls but we havent gone looking into other countries trying to destablise their political processes. If I start telling you how many times Western countries have done it for their own game I may need a whole bunch of post!!Dont tell me you are too innocent to know about these! I would take your points only if it makes global sense! Please dont expect INDIA to sit on moral highgrounds and get kicked around when everybody in this world is looking after their own intrest. Saurabh |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 144 of 257 ) sameer: "so I have every right to comment on this issue as much as Indians and Pakis have the right to comment on the international issues!!" India is a democracy, pal, so you can say what you what even it is a mind-numbingly cliched and ill-informed point of view. However, just because you have been lapping up a lot of crap about how the west can dictate terms to any brownie they damn well please, it does not mean that India and Indians need or appreciate canadians like you to giving lessons on how to behave. Let us remind ourselves that these canadians are the same assholes who forcibly shoved American Indian tribes to extinction and forcibly took children away from their parents with the intent of "civilizing" these children. And you are trying to tell us about the moral uprightness of the pricks in canada?? Phooey. India has an islamic terrorist problem rooted in pakistan, and if this not taken care of very soon, the survival of India is at stake. Did that get through your lead-lined skull?? |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 145 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Let us remind ourselves that these canadians are the same assholes who forcibly shoved American Indian tribes to extinction and forcibly took children away from their parents with the intent of "civilizing" these children. And you are trying to tell us about the moral uprightness of the pricks in canada?? Phooey. According to you every nation, clan, race and religion that doesnt fit into the RSS framework has something wrong. wtg : Never did see a maniac quite like you. |
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Sameer 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 146 of 257 ) Mr.Saurabh, I Did read your post and I think I made a mistake there by equating your language to being filthy, I shouldn't have! I do apologise for that. As for Mr.Karapal I think the statement fits in perfectly!! he hasn't changed a bit, I dont think he ever will, nothing personal, but being abusive is not the way to express ones opinion. I am refraining from commenting on the American Indian tribes as this gentleman is not here for a fair chat but rather to prove he is Mr.Right!! I may have been wrong in suggesting the friendship between Ind & Pak, but with all the constraints, if ever there is good relationship with neighbours.. the results are there to see, economically or otherwise. Finally, there are many new migrants coming to Canada not because it is rich, because there is peace of mind and the Canadians are mindful of others opinion and problems, I have lots of respect to the country of my grandfathers..but there are few groups which are blacklisting the great country by their narrow minded approach!! I hope they are in minority. |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 147 of 257 ) Sameer, Post 146. I agree that it is wonderful to be friends with your neighbours. More than anything else it will help and boost your economy. You dont need to spend your money on defending your country, you can spend it on developement. Having said that you have to look at India Pakistan relationship with an open mind..Let me just show you some steps India has taken over past 10 years: 1. India's PM Gujral Dissolved the RAW(India's CIA) arm to forment trouble in Pakistan and limit intelligence to minimum.Pakistan only used this to grow stronger in KAshmir insurgency. The results is all for us to see. 2. India's PM Vajpayee took the historical bus tour to Pakistan. He was clearly shown disrepect by the existing Head of Armed Forces who happened to be a certain Musharraf. Very soon Kargil happened. 3. Pakistan's dictator comes to India. In spite of the welcome he receives(which he shouldnt have in the first place as he had Kargil blood on his hand) the gentleman meets the Indian seperatist leaders in Kashmir(Hurriyat). I'd rather think of this as spitting on host than an act of friendship! 4. Even in act of was INDIA maintains a No First Nuke policy. Its Pakistan who suggests they wont adhere to the policy! And guess what they took it from USA/Canada/NATO policy of using first strike against Russia in case Red Army entered European NATO allies. Now that Western countries try to teach us constraint is hilarious!! Like my earlier post more than anybody these countries have created chaos in the world! Of course you will get claims from Pakistan's point of view too but I have tried to be impartial and found Pakistan more at fault. Also the fact is Pakistan is not going to go away. We are neighbours so if Pakistan wants to play hard so be it!!! Saurabh |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 148 of 257 ) jbindra: "According to you every nation, clan, race and religion that doesnt fit into the RSS framework has something wrong. " No, you dumb shit. According to me, everyone has done something wrong, including the RSS. The point in the previous post was that your claims that Indian standards of behavior must be set by canadian assholes like you is amusing. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 149 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : So what are you doing to help the situation and makes things right ? Naturally all your baloney and boohaha babbling doesnt cure anything. The world wouldnt mind having to do without one shithead who speaks nonsense. Please have some shame and make some sense next time you talk or spare others the agony. |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 150 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava Moonday 6/17/02 1:23:56 PM …meiN bhi kuNwaara re… tu bhi kuNwaara re… meiN bhi moorkh… tu bhii moorkh… meiN bhii inside out badsoorat tu bhii inside out Bandar… did any cartoonist draw missiles in the backyard of RB… and this monkey climbing it… urging it to go up and destroy the enemy and established a 'eindu rashtra'… and btw… noo delegation gonna go up 2 him 4 his utter non nense and stupid at that utterances… whatever [read madaraassii accent] yeppaned yeppened 4 the … gudD… [he should say so in Shah Aalam camp… and see what happens… idiotic isn't it?] and whatever is happening [disaster is happening since past 4 years… which will take years and years 2 revert back 2 normal [in]sanity… ]… is happening 4… Tail me… lol… good… [no one else utters a word… no response from the audience]… Next he would go a 'vedantii' like Gaaghwaanii and neither Murli[flute] neither Manohar[soul stealer… lol… hardly] [the other is Mano_haT so is this one] joe[t]shii… Vedaantii state is cloj to the meaning 'be daaantii' without teeth… lol… Outlook cover shows his oogly teeth too… disorderly… twisted like his thoughts… like the many catholic priests… the celibates like ABV and Kalaam and Ku_darshan and Patwa… ah there whole loads of them… did any hanky panky like child molestation… sodomy or something… ? let ther be an enquiry? Lol… nah a JPC… Pet Be daantii line is 'jagat is maaya'… so when any of these moron does stupid utterances like the way kalaam did that gitaa thing… just hit him haard… a tight slap… and say this not real this is only maaya ;)… lol… [why there are no emoticons amidst all these cons… In the baniya owned print indoostry… Ah it seems BJP in Gujarat has a new BJP flag… its only saffron now… is it? And Aadvaanii putting a khoon ka tiikaa… and lagaoning others too… ah guy… hiNMsaawaadii has sooo mooch of bloood on his head yet wants more and more… ye aaDvaanii maange MORE… beaten badly at the hustings everywhere… the guy is goin' desperately berserk… ChaRRey aadmii ko koyii ghar meiN na ghusne deve bhai… but aey ka? Duii duii chaRRey Sarkaar huii ga_vey… aiNwy aiNwy sunder sunder chhoriyaaN aiNway aiNway beauty contest jeetaith… winth and yet these two lampaTs which couldn't even be called 'gentleman'… har shaakH pe already lampaT baithe haiN aur on the way hai… Yechury[ has both ram n sita in his name yet not a kar sewak… chichhora mahajan kehvegga oh he doesn't need 2 be a kar sewak et all since he has such a name… hasn't learn his kH as yet… most news caasters still at butchery of Urdu… they are not just suitabilly qualified 4 the job but they are not inclined 2 loorn either… and not just tallafuz… but about 6-8 weeks back J. jaylalita's stand over POTA POTY… AajTak reporter from Chennai said… JJ khol kar… lol… instead of khul kar saamne nahiN aayii heiN… lol… Asleep at The Wheel? As India and neighbor Pakistan put up their nukes, is an ailing and frail Vajpayee the right man to have his finger on the button? BY ALEX PERRY NEW DELHI phor the Time Mag just in case the URL doesn't work... try this one... Outlook has withdrawn most of the html features from the free speach msg forum... envious, jealous effin' morons... http://www.time.com/time/as ia /magazine/article/0,13673,501020617-260747,00.html or remove %20 from the url... Shiva, Come Home by Aleksandra Priestfield http://www.swans.com/library/art8/alekp021.html |
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saurabhs 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 151 of 257 ) Am I the only person who has a real real tough time reading Tathagat's post?? While the guy surely puts some great points seems like he writes in Chinese!!! Why dont you punctuate and hyphenate your post? Why waste a gift man? Saurabh |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 152 of 257 ) jbindra: "So what are you doing to help the situation and makes things right ?" I think abusing morons like you is a fine start, especially when you go around asking questions such as "should we really retaliate once pak drops nukes on India?" That one is an outstanding example of your idiocy. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 153 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : I think abusing morons like you is a fine start, especially when you go around asking questions such as "should we really retaliate once pak drops nukes on India?" That one is an outstanding example of your idiocy. I stand corrected. Afterall you are trying to do whatever little that your peanut sized brain deems right. Try and have some brain enhancing drug that CDRI produces Crap Man. btw : Arguement by misdirection is a wonderful tactic that you have learnt from your Sanghi mentors and leaves many of my questions in wait for a response by you on some MB's here. Please do go ahead and abuse me, if you feel that would set anything right. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 154 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Finally, a monkey like you shouldn't talk about nuclear doctrines and engagement mechanisms, taking your miniscule analysis and cognitive skills. Just stick to what you were taught at your Shishu Mandir. To be inherently scared of the minorities and always treat them as enemies and go about killing them. I am sure you excel at it. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 155 of 257 ) jbindra, so are you denying that you asked the question about India restraining itself to please the "internaashunal community" if and when pakistan drops a nuke or two on India?? |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 156 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava If u don't git it... than it is not 4 u... 4 those who do [very few r even capable2do so... u r not alone saurabh]... here is more... religion as "the opium of the people" which is usually attributed to him [Marx] is said to have been written originally by the Christian Socialist the Rev. Charles Kingsley (who was quite capable of saying it of the Church of England). See article on "Christian Socialism" in earlier editions of the Encyclopedia Britanica. Asoka (B.C. 200-232), most famous of Buddhist monarchs. H.G. Wells says that in the world-list of Kings "the name of A_soka shines, and shines almost alone, a star". He became a zealous Buddhist in mid life and did wonders for the vast empire he had inherited. His moral code was severe and dogmatic but did not interfere with the ingenuous sexual freedom that then ruled in India. Vincent Smith, the leading authority on Buddhist history, says that "he ignored, without denying, the existence of a Supreme Deity." (Asoka, p 31). In other words he embraced Buddhism in its pure atheistic form (see Buddha) and gave the world a wonderful example of "the fruits of atheism." Wanna understand Musharraf... his ideal Ataturk, President Mustafa Kamal (1881-1938), President of the Republic of Turkey. He was in early years one of the young Turks of the Committee of Union and Progress, fought with great distinction in the European War, and led the revolution at the close. They made him first President of the Republic with dictatorial powers, and he humanized and modernized Turkey with great vigor. In his biography (Grau Wolf) Armstrong shows that he had a profound contempt for all religion and tried to extinguish it but was forced to compromise. They gave him the name Ataturk (the Great Turk) for his wonderful work. Like so many atheistic rulers he showed that personal asceticism is no more required of a state than belief in the spiritual. A BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY OF ANCIENT, MEDIEVAL, AND MODERN FREETHINKERS by Joseph McCabe [ large document... look4it on the web... a whole loadz of brave buddhas and boddhisatvas... ] A BIOGRAPHICAL DICTIONARY OF ANCIENT, MEDIEVAL, AND MODERN FREETHINKERS [PUNDITRY IN THE AGE OF TERRORISM : Have you ever been targeted by terrorists? I have.] IN THE SHADOW OF SHIVA Are you a Planet Patriot? : "My loyalities will not be bound by national borders, or confined in time by one nation's history, or limited in the spirtual dimension by one language or culture. I pledge my allegiance to the damned human race, and my everlasting love to the green hills of Earth, and my intimations of glory to the singing stars, to the very end of space and time." - Edward Abbey Patriotism : "Amnesia |
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asif 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 157 of 257 ) Damn fernandes for making such a statement, anyway he is a opportunist of a first order. The kind violence witnessed in gujarat pogrom should not go unpunished as it would give these vandals impression that they can get away with it. For this time it was against muslims next time it might be against dalits[well it's going on] or adivasis or OBC's etc etc. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 158 of 257 ) asif: "For this time it was against muslims next time it might be against dalits[well it's going on] or adivasis or OBC's etc etc" Dream on, asshole. Only the muslim community instigates riots and communal trouble in India, and after they do so, then it becomes a free for all bloodbath as it happened in Gujarat recently. Dalits and other groups have always tried to acquire political power and solve their problems in a more civilized manner, unlike the mullahs who head the muslim community in India. Even today, the AIMPLB justified the existence and the curriculum of the wahabbi madrassas in India, clinching the fact that these bastards are all blood brothers of Osama. I shall post a link to this item shortly. Particularly interesting is their insistence on making the muslim community obey the Shariat in India!!! |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 159 of 257 ) asif, muslim matherchot, good try at dividing the hindu community. jehadi pig, go suck eggs. it is only muslims who misbehave in this manner. they will recieve what is in store for them from now on. |
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asif 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 160 of 257 ) I pity you guys, for your your parents were only able to send you some shishu mandir for your education, otherwise you would have atleast checked the facts. The roits in merrut, moradabad, bombay and bhagalpur were not initiated by the muslims. All these roits were used as tools to subjugate muslims economically. It is a fact that dalits and obc's are discriminated against in india everyday, no doubt there was mass conversion to buddhism only last month |
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asif 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 161 of 257 ) The gujarat pogrom was not a "free for all", ministers of BJP government were directing the mobs on mobiles and VHP leaders were leading the planned and systematic voilence against muslims. muslims in india have always tried to live peacefully. Imagine there are more than 20 crore muslims in india and if they are forced to take some other path. what will happen to india will be most unfortunate. hate begets hate, so please stop bad mouthing muslims and work for a common good |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 162 of 257 ) asif you are correct. there are 15 crore legal muslims and 5 crores illegal ones. we need to get rid of the 5 crore illegal ones. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 163 of 257 ) asif, for all your crying, the people who took part in the riots in gujarat cut across all lines. all muslims and hindus participated. the people most involved are the ones you are trying to lie about and shed tears for (hindu OBCs and lower classes). the adivasis and tribals are fed up with muslim behavior in gujarat. that the VHP etc. are fucking fed up is a well known fact. even congresswalas were against the muslims there. there is complete polarisation. why. because the muslims have gone out of control in india. the only reason there is not more trouble is because hindus are generally tolerant and apathetic. they are not like muslims. it is time muslims start to behave and stop their gaddari. if not we will have a civil war with millions killed. the world is taking note of muslim behavior. the west will fuck the muslims for good. they are not stupid hindus to put up with non-sense. |
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ashwins 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 164 of 257 ) WHAT CAN WE DO WHEN WE HAVE THE MOST CORRUPT ARMY IN THE WORLD?WE DON'T HAVE ARMY RULE BECAUSE THE ARMY TOP BRASS WON'T BE ABLE TO COSY UP TO POLITICIANS AND EAT MONEY IF ARMY RULES INDIA. EVERYONE IS CORRUPT IN INDIA FROM TOP DOWN.A VERY SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS.A CORRUPT MILITARY,COUNTRY RULED BY HALF DEAD OLD PEOPLE.WHATS HAPPENING?? |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 165 of 257 ) asif: "The roits in merrut, moradabad, bombay and bhagalpur were not initiated by the muslims. All these roits were used as tools to subjugate muslims economically." Aah, lovely, a jihadi rewrites history yet again to his own convenience. Wah re wah, all this rewriting is a joy to behold... |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 166 of 257 ) asif: "muslims in india have always tried to live peacefully. Imagine there are more than 20 crore muslims in india and if they are forced to take some other path. " Aah ,there it is. An open threat by this jihadi Asif that muslims will resort to terror if they dont get their way. Thanks for helping me out, my jihadi friend. Please dont be afraid to speak out the truth like you have done so far. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 167 of 257 ) asif: "muslims in india have always tried to live peacefully." That probably explains why they set off 20 bombs in Coimbatore against non muslims. True, you muslims are sooo peaceful, even when you go out and kill a few non muslim Indians. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 168 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : You moronic sloth. Did all the 20 million set those bombs off ? If they did, surely you and your momma will be blown to Kingdom Kong, even if they used benign explosives like TNT. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 169 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Just the corollary of what you said ; You Hindus are sooo peaceful even if you go out and kill a few [thousand] Sikhs and Muslims. Need I mention where ? |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 170 of 257 ) Lowman: You say that the world is watching the Muslims and use that as a justification for your threats I SAY the world is watching and punishing the Bosnian Xtians for atrocities against Muslims, They are watching the Isrealis, They are also watching the Muslims for not standing up against suicide bombings. And they are definitely watching Hindhu bigots who are instutionalizing rape, murder and economic/relegious racism. (We still have the travel advisiories) I also SAY that you are an evil idiot, whose evilness is useful for Indias enimies because on the long run, will nagate any thing this country stood for |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 171 of 257 ) gandalf, why dont you just fuck off and stop your stupidity. travel advisories. who the fuck cares for that. maybe you do. were you waiting to suck an american dick matherchot and he did not show up. muslims have to behave or they will be fucked. they should be taught a lesson, so that, they don't indulge in stupid non-sense anymore. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 172 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Luvvman : How about teaching yourself a lesson ? Go get a hand job. Cause no low esteemed delusional monkey will even be willing to give you some mojo. Have you heard about the "tourist industry". It suffers and they care because they earn an honest living. Not maniacs like you who are parasitic and live off others, not to mention on VHP grants for promoting fanatical lunacy. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 173 of 257 ) jbindra: Since you are a little slow on the uptake...not surprising given your history of trailblazing low IQ posts...let me spell out another reason why you are a moron. Asif Said: "muslims in india have always tried to live peacefully." As a counterexample which proves that this is not true of all muslims in India, I gave a counter example of some muslims who have no intention of living peacefully with non muslims. So I said sarcastically: "That probably explains why they set off 20 bombs in Coimbatore against non muslims." Now, being the bonehead that you are, you misread the above and went on to say:"You moronic sloth. Did all the 20 million set those bombs off ? " All I needed to do to refute Asif ridiculous claim of muslims being a peaceful group was point out to a group of Indian muslims in the recent past who are violent and have no intention of living peacefully. Now, Did that sink in through your thick skull, or did your turban and kirpan get in the way?? |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 174 of 257 ) jbindra: "Have you heard about the "tourist industry". It suffers and they care because they earn an honest living." US and UK have removed restriction for their own benefit, as I was sure they would. So stupid surds like you should not go around mouthing propaganda that you memorized from your white friends in DC. You are basically a foreigner through and through, as is obvious from your ridiculous views that resemble more of the Beltway crowd than it does the crowd in {pick random place from India}. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 175 of 257 ) jbindra, asshole, there are supposedly 150-200 million seditious islamic assholes in india, not 20 million as per your count. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 176 of 257 ) gandalf, the world is watching israel, for sure. they are watching israel as it screws the palestinians and arabs. exactly the way they deserve to be treated. no fuckers, even the americans have the guts to stop israel. the fuckers are strong and will do what is good for them. matherchot, stop your double talk. the world (who the fuck are they) can you let me know, asshole. fuck pakistan, what will the world do. nothing. you are a seditious bastard, that is the problem. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 177 of 257 ) Lowman and Craps.. you keepon yapping about teaching the Muslims a lesson. You cant do a fuck.. it is the west (the hated Christians) who actually dictate what you do. You enjoy vicariously when thy fuck the palestinians... They will fuck you to one day. In the meantime fools like you can only kill pregnant muslim women. THere is nothing else India can do. So dont wast our time yapping like some stupid buggered parrot |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 178 of 257 ) Gandalf, The only thing I would like to teach muslims and halfwits like you is lessons in elementary logic and decent, ethical, non sociopathic behavior. "THere is nothing else India can do." do about what?? Please do complete this thought. The suspense is just killing my pet mongoose. |
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crusader 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 179 of 257 ) Hey Guys... Hang On!Do the Middle East ever bother about what happens in Indian sub-continent?Then why do we....juss to pull out a couple of analogies to the atrocities committed worldwide!!! The biggest mistake we committed is to put into power a group of fanatics.Now we are paying for it.This necessarily doesn't mean all other parties are good as well. Hindus, let them try to acknowledge the presence of Indian Muslims in our ulti-cultural and multi-ethical society. Muslims,let them understand they are an integral part of the society and earn their bread and butter here in this great land. If both the parties realise the purpose behind what they are doing , they'll fear to commit the crimes again. Today you may burn Women and Child and molest.Times change fast and who knows this may happen to you one day. Just a trivial energy spent in thinking should solve the issue. |
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crusader 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 180 of 257 ) Hey Guys... Hang On!Do the Middle East ever bother about what happens in Indian sub-continent?Then why do we....juss to pull out a couple of analogies to the atrocities committed worldwide!!! The biggest mistake we committed is to put into power a group of fanatics.Now we are paying for it.This necessarily doesn't mean all other parties are good as well. Hindus, let them try to acknowledge the presence of Indian Muslims in our ulti-cultural and multi-ethical society. Muslims,let them understand they are an integral part of the society and earn their bread and butter here in this great land. If both the parties realise the purpose behind what they are doing , they'll fear to commit the crimes again. Today you may burn Women and Child and molest.Times change fast and who knows this may happen to you one day. Just a trivial energy spent in thinking should solve the issue. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 181 of 257 ) crusader, you scholarly asshole, "women and children burnt may happen to you one day" - retarded idiot this has happened many times ala muslims slaughtering and plundering hindus already. it is going on today in bangla. pakistan did it in 1947. what exactly is your point stupid idiot. |
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screw_em 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 182 of 257 ) To all p-secs posing as Mother Teresa here: You guys don't seem to reconcile with the fact that the large majority of Hindus approved and admired the post-Godhra violence. Were you asleep for past 50 years? Well then wake up. The country didn't become far-right overnight. It's people like you, the fashionable leftie media and leftists of all sheds and hues who are responsible for this crisis: in your mindless arse-licking for Muslims votes. For the past 50 years, whenever a Hindu dared to ask questions, was branded a communal, fascist, xenophobic monster. Everything about your country, Hinduism, Hindus festivals is bad. You must project yourself as a bleeding heart secularist or else you are not a human being. Well you can't fool all the people all the time, can you? Muslims are now paying for your sins. The sooner you understand this the better (for them). But hey, pinkos were never renowned for their sense of logic. They are however very famous for blaming everybody else and his grandmother. And don't start the usual blame game. Why are far-right political parties enjoying an overwhelming popular vote in Europe? Is there a Hindu/BJP/RSS conspiracy there as well? Wake up. The day of leftists and p-secs is over. Ultra-nationalist and ultra-right organisations will rule the wrld from now on. |
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screw_em 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 183 of 257 ) Oh bye the way, I am just sick and tired of hearing people proclaiming 'I am ashamed of being a Hindu/Indian'. Well then don't be called an Hindu/Indian. Nobody is holding a gun to your head asking you to be a Hindu or Indian. Get out of this land/people you hate so much and live in peace. And leave us alone. I am yet to hear a Muslim saying 'I am ashamed to be a Muslim', despite the unmatched amount of horror and bloodshed they have caused in the history of mankind. No wonder Hindus always get bullied and beaten. |
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screw_em 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 184 of 257 ) Anyway, I want all Muslims out of India. They got Pakistan after a lot of hoolabaloo. What are they still doing here 50 years after partition? How come of all countries it is India that will always have to remain secular? Just a small rejoinder: in 1997, UK had 1 million Muslims. In 2000, it became 1.5m. Now there are over 2.5 million Muslims in the UK. It is estimated that by 2060 white British people will be a minority in their own country. No wonder everybody is mad at Muslims. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 185 of 257 ) screw_em: "I am yet to hear a Muslim saying 'I am ashamed to be a Muslim', despite the unmatched amount of horror and bloodshed they have caused in the history of mankind." Right on, pal. Hindus who proclaim such things should just snip the end off their thingie and call themselves robert, abdul or do whatever else it takes to hide the fact that they are hindus. Hindus certainly dont need such assholes to help solve their problems... |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 186 of 257 ) Another RSS whiner.. Suck your thumb and shut up |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 187 of 257 ) gandalf, If there is any whiner here, it is the likes of you, you worthless NRI turd. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 188 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm There is one column which i regularly read in Outlook - "Making a Difference" under the Regulars. Dear Nishi please read those stories. The persons profiled dont do the things they do for votes or publicity. But only because of their conscience and convictions. Crime and injustice exists everywhere in the world. I am not saying to accept it but rather than be ashamed of it, take inspiration from the persons featured in this column. If you feel Bharat is not mahan, make it mahan. Be Positive. And make a Difference. |
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haifa 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 189 of 257 ) Well said Gayathri. Every person can make a difference, but at great personal odds though. I dont know but you seem to be interested in women's issues. Please see Bhawandar (a movie) as an introduction to how people who work for change are treated in a society like India. Its a very painful experience. And to tell you the truth, not everyone has the guts to do it. Definitely words like be positive make a difference are great sound bytes, but reality is a totally different ball game. I dont mean we should all give up not do anything and start praying for messiahs, but optimism should be held in the reigns of reality. Just a thought. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 190 of 257 ) what nishi really needs is a good fuck. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 191 of 257 ) Post 190: and so speaks the saviour of oppressed Hindhus, mascot of the manusmirthi, upholder of the nations honour.. The only thing he can uphold is is teeny weeny weener. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 192 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm Re.my earlier statement to Nishi a clarifiction. When i had written the earlier msg, i hadnt read reg. your efforts, to mobilise funds. The 40k is unimportant, but ur attitude is. Why waste your time getting disillusioned by statements of politicians, when others can get inspired by what u urself have done. Instead of telling others that we should feel guilty or ashamed, wouldnt it have been more positive if you had mentioned ur efforts, and asked others to join in the efforts. I say "Mera Bharat Mahan" because inspite of the fanatics (of all causes) which the media prefers to highlight, we also have people who work for others selflessly (For starters, those featured in the Regulars - Making a difference column every week in outlook). Re.Hafia. Yes its never easy. Though i couldnt see the movie, I am well versed with the profile, on whom the movie is based Bhanwari. Bhanwari Devi, who was working for a state women's development project, from potter's caste, prevented a child marriage in the rural western state of Rajasthan in 1992, she was gang-raped in retaliation by five upper-caste men. They were acquitted after a three-year trial. The judge ruled that they could not have possibly raped a lower-caste woman like Devi, and also because she was old! (I am mentioning the caste only because it was made a point in the judgement.). Today she is still fighting with the appeal,her children have left their home because of the social ridicule. Yet she continues with her beliefs and acts according to them. I agree that optimism should be held in the reigns of realism, but since nishi's msg seemed disillusionary, i had asked her to be get inspired since I firmly believe that instead of feeling guilty and ashamed of the actions of barbarics and the words of leaders who support them, its better to be inspired by those who work for others INSPITE OF THE HARSH REALITIES. have a nice day all of you |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 193 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Luvvman : Didnt your mommy teach you to not use filthy language in the presence of women. Oh I forget, you were brought up by a Sanghi child molester. Poor lil' loverboy ! Gayathri : Very well spoken. And I dont wish to dissuade you but I work for an international relief organisation and it's a hell of a job to get the approval for simple things like innoculation programs and setting up health centres with USAID money in India and Pakistan. Sometimes, people come around and ask us for money or supplies to sell in the black market. It feels so very bad that we work our asses off to do whatever little good we can and these people dont mind making a quick buck off vaccines that will save a kids life. More than people making a small difference, the system of punishment for crimes should be strengthened in India. The law must be followed in word and spirit. Only then can things improve. Right now, give some money to the policeman and do what ever you want seems to be the law of the land. Haifa : Realism is a good thing, but so is optimism. 100 years ago no one thought that men could go to the moon. Those who talked of it were deemed to be insane. But we did. Be real, be positive and do whatever little you can to make a small teeny weeny difference. It adds up many times over. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 194 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm Yes jbindra i agree with that. repeating my msg on "what we can do to improve our society"If there is one thing that could really make a difference, it would be, better law enforcement and justice. How many scams and scandals over the last decade? Yet how many have been punished? Simpler laws, speedier trials and justice is the main solution. That will make a person think twice before taking a bribe or indulging in a riot. If all the schemes which are at present are implemented sincerely without the funds being siphoned off, and if taxes are paid by everyone without evasion, we would be able to see a major difference. And since we vote, we can change. Of course i dont mean that all our problems would be solved. but it would be a definite improvement over the current situation. " |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 195 of 257 ) jbindra: "Very well spoken. And I dont wish to dissuade you but I work for an international relief organisation ... You are sooo pious, and honest on top of that!!! I am sure the lowly brown scumbags dont have your elite western sensibilities. Maybe it is time to pack off all the lowlifes you mention to Washington DC so that they can all become cultured and westernized like you have. India sure needs more western-thinking people who can civilize these barbaric Indian thieves... |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 196 of 257 ) the best way to improve the situation in india is to fuck nishi and gayathri and send gandalf and jbindra to the moon in a south indian spacecraft built by kalam. it will never come back. thank god. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 197 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm the best way to improve the situation in india is to fuck nishi and gayathri Hi luwmann. well in one of my earlier msgs, i had addressed u as bhaiya. and you had reciprocated with the word ben. well what can i say to the above msg - thanks for the suggestion? With a touch of sadness it makes me think "With brothers like you, one doesnt need... I am not above anger or hatred, but when i feel like insulting someone i remember this line "Words of insult - To the one who insults, they are like words written on sands. But for the insulted, they are like words etched on rocks. Guess even for you the word ben was written on sand only. its free speech and you r entitled to your opinion. And obviously though i dont agree with your view, I continue to respect your right to your views.Perhaps someday, you will realise that spreading sadness, at the cost of spicing it up, is not a great idea. PS : If problems of india could be solved so simply... This is the message which i will send, everytime you refer to me in your msgs. Unless you have something different to say.Reg. the earlier discussion in question, it was on Ayodhya |
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rav666 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 198 of 257 ) Gayathri, I think now the title of this thread assumes its rightful meaning. Mahatma Gandhi said that India will have achieved its real freedom only when a woman can confidently walk alone in the darkness of a night with her honour intact. Forget the darkness, it appears like a woman cannot tread even these virtual lanes without losing her honour. I hope we will become a free country some day. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 199 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm thanks rav666 for the support. so simple isnt it- if a woman has a different view, just f*** her and the problems of the nation would go away. well as i said if thats the view for a person u call sister, hate to think what it would be for others.. A few months back i had visited this board and after few msgs, and the discussion level had decided it was not worth it. Last week i received a mail, which appreciated my point. And i decided to return. Last time i was intimidated. but not this round. But honestly if i hadnt recd that mail, i wouldnt have cared to return to this board. I still believe India will become a free country in the true spirit. Mera Bharat Mahan |
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sarah 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 200 of 257 ) I think it is outrageous when people come up with such nasty comments. It puts people off from coming to the site. It is hard to believe that although we live in the 21st centuary men still tend to think that they are superior race. What is the point of posting messages on this site when we have to put up with such nuisance all the time.........Gayathri do not be disheartened you are definately making difference out here. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 201 of 257 ) Gayatri: To be fair.. the problems everyone faces are treamendous. It does not bode well that someone well meaning like you is put of by a sad emotionaly scarred person who spouts abuses at the drop of a hat. They want to scare right meaning vioces like you away.. if you go, you play into their hands. And remember we were talking about womens emancipations. Those rural woman go through so much physical torture for small right we take for granted. Do never let me hear that a turd like Lowman affacts you and the rest. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 202 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm Re.msgs 196,197,198,199,200,201 Thanks sarah & Gandalf. For someone who talks so much about Ram, would like to point out that even Ravana didnt think like him. Its just luwman vs decency, not men vs woman.Instead of being disheartened by him, i am simply going to post the same reply everytime he says anything about me. He isnt saying this because he feels superior but probably because he feels insecure. For the 1 msg posted by luwman, i received immediately 3 supportive msgs. How can i now feel disheartened? Yes, Gandalf. This is nothing compared to what other women have to put up with. Thanks once again for the support and encouraging words. |
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Sameer28 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 203 of 257 ) After reading a few messages above, I felt good and confident that India will continue to remain great and diverse as it is always. The few msgs by Karapall and Lowman had made me think if indeed India is the place I have my dreams, Do we really belong here. even though we have lived here for generations and done everything Indian, served the country my Father was an Army Colonel!! Thanks to few of the people whose messages make me to believe I do belong to this country and I am proud of all the people who made me feel home once again..thanks!! |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 204 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm re.msg 196-203 Thanks a lot sameer28 Dear Nishi, for 1 lowman, there are 4 who have encouraged us? I think its important to not get discouraged by persons like lowman(which is tough & of which i too had been guilty of earlier) I think now u can understand why i had earlier told mera bharat mahan. PS : While discussing issues I had always stated that its never men vs woman. Hopefully after reading these msgs, more will agree. |
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Kaunain 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 205 of 257 ) The image of India has been tarnished because of some politicians with comunal mindset. Otherwise INDIANS are still the best, and social fabric of India in terms of humanity, justice, love and happiness is still better than the other so called developed nations. I am sure people like NISHI will start againg humming 'Sare jhan say achcha....'. Lets pray that our politicians become good huamn beings. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 206 of 257 ) sarah, join the fuckfest. thanks. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 207 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm re.luvmann msg 206 For someone who talks so much about Ram, would like to point out that even Ravana didnt think like him. Its just luwmann vs decency.Since luwmann never conveys anything new, i think it would be better if we talk to a parrot in a parrot's language. This is the message i would repeat for every abuse luvmann has for others. and if he abuses me, i will post the standard reply which i have given earlier. just keep standard replies for him. please dont engage him. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 208 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Gayathri : India needs more brave women like you. But people like Luvvman and Karapall arent about Ram or Allah. They arent about a certain community or sex. All they want is power. And what better instrument is available in a democracy to play and prey on people's sensitivites -- religion, race, language, regional affiliations. For hundreds of years we were ruled by the British and their policy of Divide and Rule worked with cruel efficiency. Now our polity, people of our blood and skin, use the same tricks they learnt from their imperial masters to keep their interests and pet issues alive. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 209 of 257 ) sammer: "After reading a few messages above, I felt good and confident that India will continue to remain great and diverse as it is always." Just to clear any illusions, let me try to remind readers here of Mr. Sameer's definition of "greatness and diversity" which includes the practise of the shariat in India by the muslim populace. That is not "diversity" as those of us who know the brutal and barbaric practices of islamic law toward women would know, but governmental sponsorship of treating women like chattel, which right-wing muslims seem to think is their right. Women have rights too, dear Mr. Sameer. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 210 of 257 ) jbindra: "India needs more brave women like you. But people like Luvvman and Karapall arent about Ram or Allah. They arent about a certain community or sex. " Nice try, dear american sardar. Firstly, I dont and nor have I ever claimed that I speak for luwmann or anybody else. Secondly, I have openly stated my aversion of organized religion of all sorts, including mine (christianity). Thirdly, if this is your own dimwitted way of trying "guilt by association" tactics, then I can fully understand your need to avenge all the ways in which I have humiliated you for your idiocy and your western snobbery (for which I offer no apologies because I believe they were well deserved in your case). |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 211 of 257 ) kaunain, our politicians are not the problem, sorry. the people are. politicians are a reflection of the people. why is pakistan supporting terrorism, because muslims are prone to it. islam is a terroristic religion if not controlled. why is india secular, because the hindus are secular, not muslims and christians. muslims are the most communal. why is india corrupt. it is because the people are, hindus and all included. why has india been invaded and fucked periodically. it is because the hindus are selfish assholes. look at this board and see all these morons stabbing their own country in the back. what nishi really needs is a good fuck, then she will start to sing "sare jahan se acha" again. OK. go suck eggs. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 212 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : That is not "diversity" as those of us who know the brutal and barbaric practices of islamic law toward women would know, but governmental sponsorship of treating women like chattel, which right-wing muslims seem to think is their right. Women have rights too, dear Mr. Sameer. It is true that Islamic tradition is a bit vague when it comes to women. But let me ask this of you O' learned one. What about all those women who get married off at 9 in Rajasthan and Gujarat (seen Bhawandar ?) about all those women who are gang raped because they drew water from a well reserved for higher castes ? What about the Nun's in MP who were raped because of their religious affiliations ? India is a majority Hindu nation, why dont we fix our ills first before we goto lecture those Islamic nations ? But people like you only indulge in slander and talk. Action is too hard an activity for you fellas to undertake. But perhaps youre so philanthropic that if given a situation where two rapists were raping women, one being your own sister and one being that of your neighbour, you would run to help your neighbour first and cry fowl for his inaction if he lacked the courage to do something about it. Somehow I do get the feeling though that you would be one of the rapists. |
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jbindra 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 213 of 257 ) We shall overcome. Karapall : Secondly, I have openly stated my aversion of organized religion of all sorts, including mine (christianity). However every message you write reeks of RSS propoganda. Perchance were you a result of a Sanghi's criminal violation of a nun ? Definitely you learn more from your "pitaji". Thirdly, if this is your own dimwitted way of trying "guilt by association" tactics, then I can fully understand your need to avenge all the ways in which I have humiliated you for your idiocy and your western snobbery (for which I offer no apologies because I believe they were well deserved in your case). Tis' sufficient to say no more than this; "the fool always doth think that he is wise". And you are no exception to this apt observation by Shakespeare of people of your moronic kind. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 214 of 257 ) jbindra: "However every message you write reeks of RSS propoganda. " a low IQ mental midget like you cannot differentiate between RSS propaganda and a hole in the ground, I am sure. Besides, given that your propaganda largely hinges on proving that punjabis need their own country, I can tell you right now that I find your message a lot more disgusting than the message of the RSS, for sure. Two bit american sikhs like you should first visit India once in a while before you regurgitate all the wise western views your white american friends made you memorize before they accepted you as a social equal. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 215 of 257 ) jbindra: "What about all those women who get married off at 9 in Rajasthan and Gujarat (seen Bhawandar ?) about all those women who are gang raped because they drew water from a well reserved for higher castes ?" Whenever the police force actually gets around to doing their job, they do arrest the parents in such cases. Again, in a country where most hard-core criminals easily escape the clutches of the law, it is hardly surprising that violations of child marriage laws go unpunished. " What about the Nun's in MP who were raped because of their religious affiliations ?" Firstly, it was in Orissa, not MP, you dimwitted american sikh. (they are different states in India, by the way). Secondly, the culprits were caught and punished in this case. here is a comprehensive report on all the so-called nun rapes that occurred. In some cases, the culprits were caught, and in other it was proven that the nun was lying. http://www.fisiusa.org/fisi_News_items/new s54.htm Since the author of the above is Arun Shourie, you might want to double check this with letters published by the telegraph, where in the editors make no effort to correct the stated facts, thereby impying its veracity. http://www.telegraphindia.com/arc hive/990310/editoria.htm some other sites that support Arun Shourie's points http://www.media-watch.org/responses /0399/8.html One of those cases was plain robbery, where in a "poor" nun was looted of 1.25 lakh rupees http://www.tribuneindia.com/1999/99n ov11/punjab.htm In fact, if you do a web search on the keywords "orissa nun rape suspects", you will note that all the sites that make such claims are christian missionary sites (or jihadi sites) who seem to make arbitrary claims of "hindus killing christians", when most of these cases were not reported by the communist media in India, which usually means that such a thing never happened. |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 216 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm re.luvmann msg 211 For someone who talks so much about Ram, would like to point out that even Ravana didnt think like him. Its just luwmann vs decency.Since luwmann never conveys anything new, i think it would be better if we talk to a parrot in a parrot's language. This is the message i would repeat for every abuse luvmann has for others. and if he abuses me, i will post the standard reply which i have given earlier. just keep standard replies for him. please dont engage him |
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Kaunain 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 217 of 257 ) Re : Luwmann. It seems that this guy has been appointed by RSS to spit venom against good human beings. He might be a goon involved in the rape and killing in Gujraat or he may be a metally retarded person, who doesn't know the meaning of decency. He might be laughing while reading this remarks..shame on u luwmann. This board is certainly not meant for the person like u. HEY RAAM ! |
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Sameer28 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 218 of 257 ) crapall What women laws are you talking about? and what do you know about islam treating women? Islam is the first religion to have given women the right to inherit about 1400years ago, even Britain the cradle of democracy made it legal in late 19th century!! Women are advised by islam to study and make oneself self suffecient.. islam also allows women to select their partner and it is disallowed to marry of the girl without her consent, there are many things which are not followed by the muslims of today and that doesnt mean islam treats women badly..it is like saying every hindu can burn his wife if she doesn't get dowry!! About hinduism giving women the right..dont we know how the female child is killed before birth recently and earlier when there was no way to predetermine the sex of the child how the dai's killed the little girls!!if you dont believe go to the link linkhttp://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=2 0020708&fname=Alwar+%28F%29&sid=1&pn=2 Is it not hinduism which preaches the dowry system. is it legal still for the women to inherit in hindus? Crapall be honest with yourself, you dont hate muslims because of islam you just hate them so dont make lies like your jewish friends about islam.. Islam is not like what you say, it is the religion which has grown enormously because of its simplistic nature.. if you dont understand, read and understand and dont try to mislead people with your stupid comments!! |
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Kaunain 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 219 of 257 ) Just to add what Sameer trying to explain to Krapall and other friends about status of women in Islam : Islam is the religion which honours women and protects them, aiming to keep them safe and chaste, because this protects the whole society. So the woman offers comfort to the man and is his confidante and nurse, the one who breastfeeds him and nurses him. So if she is righteous, then she prepares a righteous generation for the future. The home is the woman’s domain, her base of operations in life. The Qur’aan and Sunnah command women to stay in their houses. Allaah has given both spouses their rights, and has enjoined upon each their duties, so that the structure of the family and the society may complement one another. So the man has to work and strive to earn a living, and spend on his family, and the woman has to take care of breastfeeding, nurturing and bringing up the children. If she forsakes her domestic duties, then the whole family suffers, emotionally and physically. At the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Khulafaa’ al-Raashidoon, women took part with men in numerous fields, such as the pursuit of knowledge. There were women who narrated ahaadeeth and reports, literary women and poetesses, and women who were well versed in science and handicrafts. The wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the wives of his Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) used to go out on military campaigns with the men, bringing water and preparing food, taking care of the wounded, and urging the army to fight, all within the bounds of proper covering and chaste conduct. Negative consequences of women’s work : Women’s emergence into the work-force has been accompanied by social changes in the family structure and in the relationships between husbands and wives, children and parents. - Some academic researchers have noted the conflict between women’s work and their role as mother and wife, which affects them emotionally and physically, so that they have to seek the help of others to raise their children. -There is scientific evidence to show that longer breastfeeding makes a child more sociable. Hence the child needs his mother to devote enough time to breastfeeding so that he will be more self-confident and grow naturally. The concept of women’s work in Islam is more comprehensive and deeper than that proclaimed by those who advocate that women should be liberated from the home only so that they may obtain paid employment. Motherhood is work; bringing up children is work; housework is work; upholding the values of society is work. - In Islam, women are not obliged to cook and clean as a compulsory duty, which confirms that women’s work in the home is form of economic productivity. This highlights the difference between (the Islamic view) and the western view of women’s work in the home. - Finally, I say that women have enough to do at home to keep them busy, fill their time and keep them from getting bored. They do not need to work outside the home in order to achieve this. THINK IT OVER. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 220 of 257 ) kaunain, excelent man , i agree with you totally. we need to fuck women (more the better, just like the prophet did), keep them pregnant, and lock them up for their own good. that way we can suck on their breasts all we want whenever we want along with our babies. kinky eh. also, if all our wives are 9 year old it is even better. 4 beautiful nine year old girls to fuck and suck. i love it man. you have my vote. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 221 of 257 ) kaunain, excellent man. mullah omar and osma bin laden gave us a perfect glimpse of an islamic paradise in afghanistan. i strongly urge my fellow indians to follow this example and establish a true islamic republic in india on the lines of suggestions by kaunain and mullah omar. actually we can give assylum to mullah omar to help us establish allah's fine kingdom in india along the lines mentioned by me above (we can tell the americans to fuck off as mullah omar is our new caliph). all indians fuck 9 year old girls if they have come of age, or we set up sentries in front of every house to monitor when girls get ready to fuck. we can keep track of tampon sales and converge on any house that buys tampons and sanitary pads. that way we know which girl is available to fuck. glory be to allah for he is merciful. for he is all knowing and knowledgeable about tampons and sanitary pads. allah ho akbar. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 222 of 257 ) Sameer28: "and what do you know about islam treating women? Islam is the first religion to have given women the right to inherit about 1400years ago" And apparently you jihadi islamists have been stuck in the same timeframe since then. First of all, only a moron like you would try to even DEFEND the abyssmal way in which islam treats women. Why on earth would a religion like islam claim that if a woman is raped, it is HER fault!!! You barbaric islamist aholes can try to wail and moan but facts are facts and your barbarism is on public display worldwide. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 223 of 257 ) kaunain: "Islam is the religion which honours women and protects them, aiming to keep them safe and chaste, because this protects the whole society." I suppose this is the same "honor and protection" offered by islam that claims that women should be stoned to death in public she dares to choose her own love of her life?? Yeah, sure, you jihadi piece of human garbage. On top of this, you go on to claim that a woman must be righteous to raise righteous children...well, what about the man then?? Is he allowed to be a pillaging,plundering and raping animal like most of you jihadi muslims are today? |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 224 of 257 ) kaunain: "The home is the woman’s domain, her base of operations in life. The Qur’aan and Sunnah command women to stay in their houses. Allaah has given both spouses their rights, and has enjoined upon each their duties" I know enough women phycisists and doctors who have more brains in their little finger than jihadi cretins like you have in your whole family. The clear intent of the barbaric crap in the Sunnah is to terrorize women into submission and to entinguish their creative soul and energy. For this crime alone, you jihadi gaandmaars will pay for sure, maybe not now but someday soon. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 225 of 257 ) It looks stupid when people championing all religions try to defend the way women are treated/deemed to be treated by their religions. All religions(some more than the other) are stteped in tradition and tradition has always been anti woman. Todays women's emancipation is definitely not covered in any religion. All religions are trying to usurp what has been a western led (I hate to say this but its true) societal change. The concepts driving womens liberation are concepts of freedom, liberty, independence.. laid down by Voltaire .. etc. The only instiutionalised line of thought targeting womens equality is Communism. (With all its faults I has this plus point.) Why dont you understand that the status quo of all major religion will remain the same for the next few centuries. Lets try and move above religions. You dont need a religion to tell you how to treat women. |
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Sameer28 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 226 of 257 ) Crap all You have chosen the right nick for yourself!! there is no where in islam that a woman raped should be the one who should be at fault while the rapists get away!!! You are talking about the barbaric practices of the tribes which are not islamic practices. Your missing the point I made about the hindu practices makes me understand you are not looking for answers to understand anyone's point of view. you are here to arrogantly dismiss every other point of view. By your name you sound to be christain and if is true, what are you trying? dont try to put venom in already hurt feelings between muslims and hindus. If you are true Indian as you claim to be, try to make the country better and make the people come closer together so that they help in making the country the better place to live economically and socially! |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 227 of 257 ) Sameer28, on one hand you crow about how Islam is a growing religion and on the other hand you try to manipulate a discussion by assuming a religions reason for Karapalls views. Knowing that karapall has no gods but deceit, now worship but crapping.. It seems to me that you are here with a hidden agenda. I guess you should ask yourself whether you are suppressing your reactionary feelings as the situation demands but would lash out at both Hindus and Christians as and when you can. Its people like you that give secular Indians a bad name |
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Sameer28 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 228 of 257 ) Gandalf I have nothing personal against you or anyone, I am here to put my opinions as I think right and I don't have to get a certificate from you for what I am. I have great respect for every religion and my point was that religion is always right and you cannot hold the religion for the wrong actions of their followers You seem to be missing the points and blaming me for nothing. I am a muslim and I can't sit back and relax when the people misquote the religion. I follow the ethics of life and I am sure what I was thought is right and I dont hate anyone because of their religious inclinations or biases, Finally there is no reason for me to supress myself on this MB. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 229 of 257 ) sameer28: "!! there is no where in islam that a woman raped should be the one who should be at fault while the rapists get away!!!" Nice try, pal. Pakistan implements the shariat to the letter and when a woman is raped, she needs to provide FOUR MALE witnesses to the crime in order to establish her innocence. Need I say more about the number of such rape cases where women can provide 4 such witnesses or else languish in jail forever? You will of course claim that the law still punishes the rapist as long as this "loose woman" who had the audacity to get raped can produce these witness. Excuse me while I spit in your face for your callousness. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 230 of 257 ) Sameer28: "I am a muslim and I can't sit back and relax when the people misquote the religion." Look, pal, the fact that you get more offended by the "false portrayals of islam" (you defended this firsts) than you do about the vicitmization of muslim women by muslim men who use the Quran to justify their barbaric and inhuman treatment of women, says a lot about your inherent jihadiness. First, acquire the decency to call a spade a spade instead of hiding behind "islam is really great" nonsense. No religion is great ---they are all the same heap of trash. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 231 of 257 ) sameer, you say religion is always correct. where did you get that stupid idea. what you really wanted to say and did not say is "islam is always correct". please do not make me laugh. i know you are a nice guy but islam is coming in the way, isn't it. do you sincerely feel that the islamic paradise of taliban is good or great. that islam actually bans music and dance. is this a good thing. photography was banned by he taliban as unislamic. do you support that. do you really think the world is divided into dar ul islam and dar ul harab. do you really think kafirs should be killed or converted and idolators raped, killed, or maimed. do you think this is great religion. you are welcome to your views of great religion. i am welcome to mine. do you really think indian classical music is hindu and banned in pakistan. do you support that. plz let us know about your great religion some more. |
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malli 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 232 of 257 ) The point is not whether Islam or Hindusism says 'something'. Every religion has a few good things to say and quite few idiotic things to say. Relegion is not encoded by one person. Down the years people have added, bent and twisted things around so much that it has all become one mess. Islam as it is practiced under the Shariat law is rubbish (I am sure Sameer would agree with me) - after all stoning people to death and 'honor rape' belong to the middle ages. But is it any different from dowry deaths and bride burning? Subjugation is subjugation - whatever name it goes by. Relegion, any religion, is neither great or 'non-great'. If you can find something that is useful and personally enriching, then its good. If you take the idiocy and adopt it as your own, well, you are an idiot! In a recent discussion on 'the immorality of Islam' people waxed eloquent about how the Islamic vision of heaven is nothing short of a brothel - where you can get 'young nymphs and untainted boys'. The entire drift was Islam is a corrup religion. But lets not forget that someone might turn around point to the sex sculptures on the temples (the most famous being Khajuraho). Whats the point I am making - All religions have become a dumping ground. If you find something useful, then pick it up and get on with it. At least, throw the rubbish away. |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 233 of 257 ) Lowman: "i know you are a nice guy but islam is coming in the way, isn't it." Surprising O lowman Pipsqueak.. thats brilliant. But it applies to everyone, Islam to Sameer, RSS hindhuism to you, Budhissim to some sinhalese etc. Except in your case you are no nice guy. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 234 of 257 ) malli: " But is it any different from dowry deaths and bride burning? " Of course it is. The Shariat is islamic law and condoned by all of islamic society all over the world including India, the above are crimes punishable by imprisonment in India and looked down upon by a majority of the hindus. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 235 of 257 ) malli, you are absolutely wrong in comparing dowry deaths and bride burning to shariat law. the former is not religious law, not enshrined in any religion. the latter is religious law. there is a vast difference. just because murders and rapes exist in a country does not mean they have sanction by law. hindu religion does not endorse dowry deaths by any means. islam endorses the shariat code. i am not sure why muslims continue to mislead and lie about all this. example: islam bans music and dance as unislamic. just yesterday an islamic court punished an iranian for teaching dance. why do you guys not adddress the issues as presented instead of misleading and lying all the time. |
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luvvmann 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 236 of 257 ) malli, you say religion is not encoded by one person. very true. it would be foolish to base religion on one person. but islam does precisely that. it is one person (muhammad) and one book (the koran). not only that there are blasphemy laws that are one sided. muslims are ready to kill others for insulting their own religion. but, muslims insult other religions at will thinking that is perfectly allright. when will this bullshit come to an end. would it be meaningful to base the learning of chemistry on just one book. or physics on just one book. or medicine on just one book. that is precisely what islam does, one book that cannot be questioned. if all religions have good and bad, what bad things does islam have, can you please elaborate. or is it pefect. |
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sanjayin 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 237 of 257 ) the Brahminshave been rulig for at least 2000 years. They must know that people in advanced countries never follow such utterly stupid practices. President George Bush wears no rings; he is a Christian. The Hindus must stop following like Muslim fanatics. They must imitate rationale Christians.only then we can transform our nation from developing to developed. |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 238 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava 7/25-27/02 stopthehatred.com… hindustaanii nahiN bhaartiya… hindoostaaN was before partition… this way it would be 'Hindu Rashtra' in from the backdoor… I think 'legally' Indians are Bhaartiy'a… as the nation was named Bhaarat, isn't it?!? I am Indian or meiN or me Indian is fine too… Allama's Saare jahaaN se achchha HindoostaaN hamara… also pre partition… Otherwise the message is good… whatever unites… is goood and whatever divide is BAD… as simple as that… The other day NDTV's caption read briefly with errors … Straw and The Dawn guy … misspelled… it was proofed online though… also the devnagri number digits have uneven spacing in the captions and the ticker2… that's really funny… and its on more than a few months… !!! also Sonaalii Verma and Kanupriya Sahgal do loadz-o-errors… so is Vijay Trivedii, Pachuarii's punctuations weird… Devaish has learned his qaaf pretty well… and thank goodness that he doesn't do a kaaf with a qaaf [as bala subramaniam who announced the news of Baabrii Mosque demolition with a sly smile… once did a qaaf rhyming kaamyaabii as qaamyaabii… lol…] Swaatii Maheshwarii and almost effin' everybody needs 2 learn their tallafuz right… or else u know how it sounds… lord there need 2 be done some changes in the education system 2 take care of it… or wonder how 'our' 'culture' will sound in some time in future… DD has some noo faces in… that's good… they r pretty but yagain lacks… u know what… they better hire a good Hind'vii [what Arabs and Persian called the Urdu] teacher… Jagjeet and the Mangeshkar sisters and many many and almost all performing artists are impeccable… immaculate [mostly edited non-extempo] but this noose guys r real u know what!!! Untrained unqualified… and on top unwilling 2 learn… and quality is compromised beside misinforming some 4 life… yes even the Star Plus's Little Wonder program for kids… the diction is disastrous… 2 the extent of misinformation children 4 good… how it all can slip quality control b4 broadcast… I wonder!!!… Wonder how Manoj Raghuwanshii guy qualify2be on TV…?!? Guy like that as anchor and u turn away ur regular TRP in sheer disgust… [meanwhile Khushwant pens his concern 4 Ooordooo… and Poonam Saxena about Rahguwanshii… ] Poonam calling Pooja a bimbo wasn't fair… I share Ms Prataap's feelings 4 that beautiful and pretty smart at that woman… a daughter I never had… but tathagat is a father 2 all such souls… [she just happened2live2faast and 2deep… her contribution 2 the women/human cause will find place in the annals 4 sure… soon she will speak in thousand voices… faces… …about that 7 million year old human skull fossils found… wonder what dubya would make of that… him2Ronnie and all the far right believe by the written warad in the Bible… such baboons as woorld leaders… first MBA president and yet US a corporate mess… and in the end he may turn out the looser in Florida recounts… are the researchers recounting or what?!? When Bjoerg Haider's Freedom party became a part of Austrian Govt., there was so much of halla gulla from the EU and ultimately he had 2 resign as head… what about these communal fascist turning genocidal maniacs in the Indian Govt., these dahshatgards should be ousted ASAP… |
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gandalf 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 239 of 257 ) Good to have you back Tat |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 240 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava ...revival... [Ghaaghwaanii at the BJP executive hoodlums meet... lol... u revive something which is already dead... u r as dead as the Christianity... do what u will and u can not ruscitate something which is dead... get it...?!? [Jagjit Singh has paid his tribute 2 gHaalib but wrongly called it 'Revival'... Urdu and Ghaalib too effin' impossible 2 die or be done away with... Venky winky sayeth there @ the executive council meet... no quesstion of abondoning ur ideology and philosophy... i wonder what it is... they look all 2 readily lumpen... LM Singhvii had the saffron patta round his neck... Shourii didn't but he sure looks wearing a kHaaQii knicker up his disinformed distorted sick brain... these public assets are being sold... 4 all the dallallii and 4 party funds... and all this liquidated assets will vanish like gais [gas]… moolah roots off all evil today n forever… [am singing Floyed's Mmmonnneeey mommy de crimes… The Winker party president parroted the 1984 riots in Delhi... the jhuper patTii lumpen were lead 2 riot even in 1984 riots against the sikhs by these jingoist... mainly RSS + INC... a youth cong guy asked Diggy in Bhopal... why can't we say that we are Hindu with pride... Diggy reportedly said... each side should say the other is so effin' gr8... but diggy is not properly informed [educated]... he should have said... the word Congress comes Congregation... so all walks of life forms, form it... so neither congRace is of any community or faction... beside in reality... it is difficult 2 decide who and what and how is Hindu... somebody told me it's every effin' dirty word in the Arab and Parsii dictionary... if so than we should be discarding this identity... ...NDA Agenda even if got a majority... rotf lol... majority - not even in ur dreams u lumpen... Raam Sewaks... U will finish the 3rd... as u did in Ooopee... eventually u would loose presence even in civic offices... why no de-escalation... u dreaming of another Kaargil... 1st, last and perinniel refuge of an scoundrel... :), no thing is gonna work... ABV talking of consensus... ah as Aashis Nandii wud putit... with a fifth of 'bhoths' they are not even elected leaders... they are merely tresspasser... |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 241 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava ...BTW did anybody count how many times Venky Winker winked there at the BJP Executive council meet... or 4that matter how many fucking fuck times Osbournes said fucking fuck on YumTV... [Jr tuned History channel 4 him... do we get that soon?!? but hey ZeeMGM thank u 4 Santana and the BeeGees and thank you [V] 4 V weekend of Dylan and Floyed... did I miss Doors and Stones... how about famous rock festivals? how about Dustin Hoffman's movie on Lenny Bruce... how about Arthur C Clarks and Sagan on Telly... NDTV Broadband... Roys dreamin' profits from the net too... broadband in a bhaiNs da tabaila... ha ha!! even 56kbps would be a bottleneck 4 most b'coz of net congestion... make it free... go 4 transcript 2... git some more staff... redesigne the site... it is so dull and boring... ...Sunil Dutt the Commander do gooder told HT the next day after the lumpen Media shown the tape incessantly... Read between the lines... and after 30 hours the idiotBox media says ...ah Sunil Dutt breaks his silence... and reported instead that Sunil Dutt is no lumpen and would honor what the Court [Sean asked Yoko about the fate of the loony assassin of John... She said its upto the courts... and Sean asked "what court the basket ball or Tennis court] decides... that he is non lumpen, non-VHP... the poor guy is being blackmailed it seems... now what is he goin'2back off from his new mission... after he goes... Sanjoo baba will be a full time bhaii he looves it so moooch... and the way Raam CowBreeder/rearer Verma's eyeballs moove... he sure looks n seem loony2me... that StillMaalii's animated Maalii a toorn off... over acting... so is Oberaii... too much effort... ... sure Sanju should be arrested... but a) taped voice should be his in reality and b) That Maaran Tape should go through same scrutiny that the hand was not edited and made 2 be hitting the arresting officer... If he really did hit than the guy should resign as the minister and should be charged as per the law-O-the land... BJP said arrest Sanjay on POTA, I say why not arrest BJP under POTA... the "Bhartiya Lumpen Party" |
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palo51 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 242 of 257 ) THE GUTKA BAN !!! According to me people have just made an unnessary hue and cry about the gutka ban.Well i dont think that a ban like this one is going to be of any use because history has made it very clear that any kind of prohibition on addictive substances like gutka, alcohol and cigarittes leads to their entry into the states through the back doors by means of smuggling and other illegal ways. Well everyone including the addicts of such harmful substances are aware of its ill effects on the body. Tobacco chewing leads to a number of diseases like oral cancer etc. But inspite of knowing all this if people want to continue the intake of such toxic materials thats completely their problems and should be willing to face the consequent effects on their healths.Well a gutka manufacturer is a businessman like the producer of any other product such as consumer durables, electronic items and so on. He is definately going to make false claims about the product but its upto us to evaluate their claims and do what would be beneficial for our health and well being. But i am sad to saw many cannot really think the same way.Well a human being is responsible for every action of his !! |
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palo51 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 243 of 257 ) THE GUTKHA BAN !!! |
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GAYATHRI 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 244 of 257 ) www.cry.org/you/youcando.htm palo51 with due respect, whats ur opinion on drugs? Though I agree with u that mere banning doesnt help. |
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palo51 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 245 of 257 ) Well according to me a strong will power can help people refrain from the use of addictive substances. Many a times people indulge themselves into the use of toxic substances like cigarittes and drugs just because they have become a fashion in many stratas of the society. What people fail to realise that mere following trends does not make them wanted. People who are addicted or hooked on to such materials must have the will to come out of this habbit .Talking about drugs ? Tell me one thing if today the centre bans the abuse of drugs in the country would the problem be solved for good?? Tell me wouldnt smuggling increase on a large scale? And beileve me people who are hooked would be ready to buy drugs at even double or triple the price. My point here is that a large scale awareness must be created soo that the addicts realise for themselves that they are actually burning precious hours and days of their lives while continuing the habit. The families of such patients must be sympathetic towards them and support them if they would want to come out of the habit. Awareness is the only way besides self-will that can help solve this wider problem. Besides i think the government should concentrate on banning things that would affect others also besides the addicts. For example,Well why should i be a passive smoker? i intake so much smoke from around when people are smoking. The goverment had passed a law banning smoking in public places but can any of us see the ban being implemented?? Well such issues should be raised and laws be passed but provided they will be later implemented sincerely !!!!!!! |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 246 of 257 ) palo51, excellent points. Decrimininalizing drugs and increasing drug education AND NOT LYING ABOUT the effects of different types of drugs is essential. You points regarding increase in smuggling and the profit in the drug trade JUST BECAUSE OF CRIMINALIZATION are right on the money. Frankly, I am worried when the fools in the govt. place marijuana in the same category as heroin or cocaine. Young people might see that the govt. lied to them on marijuana and might be tempted to try heroin or cocaine, both of which are just highly dangerous pharmaceutical chemicals. |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 247 of 257 ) As an example, people can go about and compare the effects of prohibition and the repeal of prohibition in various parts of the world. The common conclusion one comes to is that the increased profit due to prohibition attracts criminals and increases crime significantly. Having govt. controls and cutting incentives to use alcohol or other drugs via taxation is THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO HANDLE ALCOHOL. There is no earthly reason why this should not be true for drugs too. |
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abo 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 248 of 257 ) Shame ? what for ? We didn't start the riots in Gujarat - it was just a reaction. We didn't go oversees and forced someone to accept Hinduism. - In fact we have been forced to accept other religions since 11th century. We gave this world people like Swami Vivekanand. - When one can be "This" high in morality, one should never be shamed on himself. |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 249 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava ...even Vivekanand was no good... he talked of Hindu pride... what pride... people who have Caste System, Dowry and Satii got no thing 2 be proud off... they can only be ashamed... ...how the cunning Brahmins used slow and stealthy means of destroying women which are completely justified in the Hindu scriptures (Vedas and Puranas). This they did by several cruel methods : Forcefully confiscating any property women could have. Enforcing the debilitating dowry system which forced women to pay huge sums of money upon marriage. Locking women up at home and not permitting them to leave the house. Denying women the basic right to education and maintaining them in a state of enforced illiteracy. To understand the cruel and inhuman treatment of women in Hinduism one must understand how Hinduism originated. As evident from the synonym for `astik' (orthodox) Hinduism, namely Brahmanism, Hinduism is nothing but Brahmin Imperialism. The Brahmins destroyed several independant `nastik' religions such as Buddhism, Shaivism, Tantrism and Jainism by submerging them into the Brahmanic soup. In order to gain followers and to convert the followers of `nastik' (heterodox) faiths such as Tantrism, Shaivism and Shaktism to astik Brahmanism, the Brahmins had to somehow subjugate the nastikas. One of the main methods by which this was achieved was by the crushing of women of non-Brahmin races. Thus, the religion of Brahmanism was propagated by a band of male chauvinist pigs. Genocide of Women in Hinduism by Sita Agarwal |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 250 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava ... the short and ooogly and superstitious [999 times more than an average moron... convent educated huh?!?] non-draviRs [she isn't Tamil and not just at that she isn't DRAVID EITHER and yet leading a DraviR party shouldn't be allowed 2 head a party let alone be a CEO O de state... who is she BTW and who is Poorno Sangma... Pooorno the tribal who owes it all to INC and Sharad PaNwaar... traitors... back stabbing INC... Mulaayam responsible 4 these lumpen 2 git in here... shame on u all... u sure gonna burn in ur own fookin' hell... shame on u Barkha 4 debating Sonia's foriegn origin... but u all look fookin' moonkies 2 me... retarded buffoons at that... all of lumpen supporters media men, politicians even the jaahil voters will have to pay... even further... beside most modern democacies have proportional representation system of voting... old stinking rotten n moronic democarcy- the rule of the majority has this winner take all system of voting... if this ooogly bhaiNs ka tabaila had PR system... INC would have been ruiling 4 polling more votes than the BJP... Bhartiya jenocidal Party... and beside PR the only system where minority and women get automatic adequate representation instead of this chor jaahil system.... of the under developed... but i tend 2 forget how manuplative, exploitative the jews and the brahmins are... Modi... the more he open his filthy mouth the more exposed he stand... soon people will start puking... throwing up u know... some would spit on their ooogly faces... [around 20th August]...all the 'goodhearted' n 'sane' people do not approve of an early election in Godese's Gujurat... but either way... Bh_artiya Jaanleva Part_y a BIG looser... let there be a thoord front and let BJP [yuck] leave at third place loosing even the main opposition space... B4 it looses power in the civic offices as well... B4 it's disbanded 4 its lumpen and fanatic activity of hatred... Maha'tma Lyngdoh sayeth the sanest things... sanest voice in a long long time... he is better with words... better than Arundhatiis and Roomas... :), gossip of the menial... lol... he called menial what tathagat call lumpen... tendentious... wow... not prejudiced or biased or even partisan... but tendentious... :) and that 'menials' never heard of atheism... i wud call it the best interview old bhaangla TV ever did... he said [now hear him... and quote...] democracy farce... nah with all these oceans of jaahils... even fookin' civilization is fookin' farce... FARCE!... what u will make of half the humanity believe in a Virgin moother... the eindu reported the Lyngdoh verbatim... off PTI... NDTV hasn't discoverd transcripts just as yet... or may be they are under staff... lack ideas... funds etc.!!! Outlook could 'ave doon it... |
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Tathagat 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 251 of 257 ) appa DeepO bhava ah! Kalam should re spell his name... get a little scientiphic... he is neemore a fisherman... nor a kabaaRii scientist... [ex-fisherman, ex-hawaldaar, ex-chapraasii... huh!!! its just that 3% Brahmins are the actual 'owners' of this mess... so now is the time 2 loorn 4 him that it is Zain-ul-Aabedein [great grandson of Mohammed, son of Hussain...] and not Jainul... so the name he should spell... APZ[not even jeD or Jhed...:) tribal buffoons can't rhym Z] and not Kalam... it gotta be Kalaam... this way it is science... lol... ah a serial on Sahara spell Virasaat... Ekta is another superstitious bhaiNs... Kaahin Kissi roz... in both these cases aa is wrong... as was in Ramkhilavaan on SABeTV... proof of uooz as worst kinda mallichhas... MTV karaoke guy seems a madrassii... Tavleen Bhenjii wrote in her stupid coloumn in IE that she has been accused of bein a BJP supporter... which she considers [NOW] as worst kinda insoolt... lol... Chuck these moron kirkeeTers... I wouldn't hire Sachin as a fookin' chapraasii or even as a 'jhaaroowalla'... who the fook is he... soo many fookin' retarded people in this stupid stupid woorld... Harish Khare is 'tendentious' too... lol... Sonia would fookin' do a favour 2 this ooogly bhaiNs ka tabela... by b'coomin' a PM... |
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baga 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 252 of 257 ) ALL NATIONALISTS HINDUS SAFRONISTS PLS VISIT >>>> WWW.HINDUUNITY.COM |
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Karapall 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 253 of 257 ) Tathagat: Hey, you brainless communist shithead. What happened to your "Congress will win gujarat in a landslide" prediction. Stand still so that I can rub your face in your own idiocy. Clearly, a shithead like you so distraught that you have insulted all hindus, Abdul Kalam, Jayalalitha, and anyone who thinks that Sonia Gandhi is a braindead italian crook and not worthy of representing India in any way, shape or form. She has never demonstrated any affinity for India as can be seen from her delay in acquiring an Indian passport, she cannot speak even hindi without having it transcribed into english so that she can read off it. Dont communist shitheads like you have any sense of pride and dignity in India, that you see nothing wrong with an obvious foreigner and braindead imbecile like Antonia Maino getting control of the destiny of all Indians?? "people who have Caste System, Dowry and Satii got no thing 2 be proud off... they can only be ashamed... " None of these are legal anymore in India, you dumb shit. Too busy sucking communist dicks to notice such facts, eh? besides, if you are going to deride hinduism for its past ills, there is plenty of blame to go around in the past (AND PRESENT) attitudes prescribed in islam and christianity. Or did that simple fact not make it into your simpler mind? |
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indtruth 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 254 of 257 ) Tathagat: There is no doubt that you feel so bad about yourself and suffer from acute inferiority complex which is inflicting all congress and communist cadre. It is this infliction which has led to destroy indian culture programs. As they are destroying Hinduism in India, Westerner are busy making vedas, ayurveda, vaastu are their trademarks. Even "daadhi Maa Ke Nuske" which advocates turmeric and neem for many ailments were claimed USA as their own. Destroy Hindu program of congress and communist should be exposed to our non suspecting Hindus who are busy finding decent jobs for themselves. |
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indtruth 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 255 of 257 ) Tathagat: Unlike Christian westerner who discriminates based on the skin pigment color, casteism was based on the intellectual level of human and create a new breed which is more intelligent and skilled. Modern world wants to use short cuts by tempering with genetics. Our forefather instead used natural and time taking procedure to create new generation of Hindus. NO doubt they are successful in all fields. Discrimination in any form is bad and Hindutva is the movement of correcting those discrimation. No doubt that this corrective measure is making congress and communist go mad that even Sonia who took more than 15yrs to accept Indian citizenship and only when she saw the prospect of becoming PM, she decided to learn hindi. |
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indtruth 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 256 of 257 ) Regarding Sati practices, it is bastards Muslims who came to loot India and abduct Indian women who popularised such practives as no Indian women likes to live once her modesty is outraged. Most of the todays muslim generation have been born out of the Hindu women who were abducted during muslim rule. Any beautiful girl seen used to abducted by muslims. this led to convering Hindu women head and keeping them indore so that Muslim wont take away their prestige. TATHGAT: you are the shit christian convert who will keep converting to one religion to other based on the amount of thrashing and money he gets from devil. There are many like you have have sold their soul to the Devil. |
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sinbad 5/6/2002 1:20:41 AM ( 257 of 257 ) A classic example of Sati or Johar was when pig molester, Allaudin Khilji invseted Chitor in the 1300s. The Rajput men committed Kesaria when defeat became inevitable, Maharani Padmini committed Sati with dozens of other Rajput women. A great Sadhu, who started the work of providing safety to Rajput widows was known as Guru Nanak,starting the Silh martial tradition. This Taatu hijida ought to commit Sati. |
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